Seen enough of Livan?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Who would you like to see more of?

Because, I'm telling you, I didn't like seeing an effective Parnell consigned to a non-specific bullpen role, and I'm not enjoying seeing Stokes there. The team has established him as a big-league quality reliever, and, well, big-league quality relievers are luxuries that other teams need --- teams with quality healthy starters. With six weeks left, I'd like to see Stokes get a few more turns in the rotation.

He came up as a starter and mostly started in the minors. I was (maybe) right about Parnell. Give me this one.

[MFS62]

I'll give it to you on this one. I remember hearing an interview last year with one of his Minor League teammates (don't remember which one)who was amazed that Bobby could throw harder late in games when he needed it. The 93 MPH heater went up to 97+ when he was in late inning trouble.
Starter material fer shure.
Later

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

You were right (or you know, you could be), and it reminded me not to necessarily eat everything the Mets on my plate.

The "knock" on Parnell, and what led him to bullpen duty, was the notion that his repertoire was limited. I don't think the Mets just made that up -- and they probably had his/the team's best interests at heart when they assigned him the bullpen role. Maybe though they were underestimating what he was capable of there.

In an ideal world, the starting assignments go first to guys with a variety of offerings like Livan, and bullpen jobs to the guys with a fewer tools, but good success with them.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Eventually, though, you have to look to have exclusively successful guys as starters, and remind yourself that there are Clemenses and Glavines and Ryans and Goodens and plenty of other guys with limited reps who succeeded as starters.

Besides, Stokes deserves a shot, after getting the worst. Welcome. Ever.

[Frayed Knot]

John Sickels recently said after being asked that he "doesn't like" the idea of Parnell as a starter. I assume it's due to a perceived lack of repertoire issue although he didn't expound on it.

[Gwreck]

Sure, why not.

Don't know if this makes Green or Figueroa the primary setup man, but whatever. Given the state of the season, I'm all for some experimentation.

[metirish]

yes , I have seen enough of Livan

[Guest Edgy DC]

Any other nominations?

[Gwreck]

In another thread I suggested Dessens, but I don't see him as a long-term option of course.

Apparently Dillon Gee is hurt. I don't think there is even anyone else who would be worth calling up. So, Stokes it is.

[metirish]

In soccer ball you can take a player on loan for the season , if MLB allowed that the options open up of course.

Typically such players are young and loaned out for seasoning .

[Benjamin Grimm]

A long shot, but Ryan Coultas is 27 years old and has a 2.78 ERA in 11 starts at Binghamton.

He's too old to be a "prospect" but maybe he can be a Mark Bomback or something.

[Guest sharpie]

Maybe Billy Wagner can be flipped for a potential starter.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think Coultas is a converted infielder. Or maybe he just sounds like a converted infielder.

[seawolf17]

Fuggit. Call 'em all up. Elmer, Redding, Livan, Figgy -- see ya. Sorry, fellas, but it's time to see what the kids can do. Any kids.

[Gwreck]

Lessee:

The Norfolk rotation is:
Lance Broadway: 4-8, 6.39 ERA, 145 Baserunners and 47 Ks in 88 2/3 IP
Tobi Stoner: 4-7, 4.58 ERA, 97 Baserunners and 44 Ks in 70 2/3 IP
Adam Pettyjohn: 3-8, 4.50 ERA, 121 Baserunners and 40 Ks in 72 IP.
Kyle Snyder: 3-5, 4.04 ERA, 120 Baserunners and 67Ks in 89 IP.
and
Pat Misch

Not a lot of prospects there. Snyder is intriguing, former first round (1999) pick of Kansas City, never did much in the majors but had an OK year in the Boston bullpen in '07.

I figure it's time to release Redding and try someone else.

[ashie62]

Dillon Gee

[MFS62]

="Benjamin Grimm":3dnk2111]A long shot, but Ryan Coultas is 27 years old and has a 2.78 ERA in 11 starts at Binghamton. He's too old to be a "prospect" but maybe he can be a Mark Bomback or something.[/quote:3dnk2111] I saw him pitch this year. His best pitch seemed to be his changeup. He made some hitters look downright silly. He's recovring from arm problems. The difference in speed between his fastball and change might not be enough to do the same to major league hitters. But as he gets arm strength next year, he might be a possibility. Later

Gwreck Aug 18 2009 09:11 PM

="Ashie62":2pgvuw5m]Dillon Gee[/quote:2pgvuw5m] Hurt Edgy DC Aug 18 2009 09:36 PM And not particularly effective this season. smg58 Aug 19 2009 08:42 AM I too have had enough of Livan, but there's nothing on the line and our options are nonexistent. Unlike Parnell, the guys we could call up a this point have no chance of being part of next year's rotation, so I see no benefit even looking ahead. As for Stokes, his .313/.420/.446 split against lefthanded batters is really not encouraging for a prospective starter, especially since he is a nice asset in the role he currently has. If we were much closer in the standings and I had to choose between Stokes and Livan I would give Stokes the ball. As it stands, Stokes is fine where he is and I see no point in messing with it. The fact that Livan and Tim Redding have managed to stay on the roster all year says everything about our injury luck that you need to know. And our luck has been even worse with the hitters. Sigh. Gwreck Aug 19 2009 10:38 AM Redding spent the first 6 weeks of the season on the DL. Edgy DC Aug 19 2009 11:32 AM ="smg58":15ha0jg1]If we were much closer in the standings and I had to choose between Stokes and Livan I would give Stokes the ball. As it stands, Stokes is fine where he is and I see no point in messing with it.[/quote:15ha0jg1] Do you think there's some risk of him being set back on his future potential as a reliever? smg58 Aug 19 2009 11:42 AM I think there's a small amount of injury risk anytime you stretch out a pitcher who's been making mostly one-inning appearances. With Parnell, the chance of him being a bigger asset in the rotation than he is in the pen is worth the risk to find out. I don't think Stokes has the same upside. Rockin' Doc Aug 19 2009 10:11 PM Edgy DC - "Seen enough of Livan?" Too much. Nymr83 Aug 19 2009 11:55 PM i don't care if Parnell gets shelled because we need to find out what Parnell can do for next year, but Livan isn't part of the future here and he isn't performing now so ship him out. I don't care who pitches in his place, as long as they are under 30 and we are at least getting valuable data as to who might be good for later. Frayed Knot Aug 20 2009 02:05 PM Well, we're going find out about life after Livan -- he was released today to make room for Billy Wags. Benjamin Grimm Aug 20 2009 02:32 PM Does that mean he's out of the rotation? John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 20 2009 03:16 PM Not to get my FEEEEELINGS into this but I hate Wagner and liked Livan, and can't believe Redding survives yet another day. Gwreck Aug 20 2009 03:21 PM I'd have at least given that next start to Figueroa instead of Redding. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 20 2009 03:27 PM ="Gwreck":h4fsyqqt]I'd have at least given that next start to Figueroa instead of Redding.[/quote:h4fsyqqt] If only MLB rules permitted, I would love to have given them both the start, trading off innings in a sort of Dueling-AAAAers hoedown. Alas. Do we get a 'Memories-of-Livan', or should I be headed to that Eternal Sunshine place to get 'em wiped?

[Gwreck]

="Ashie62":2pgvuw5m]Dillon Gee[/quote:2pgvuw5m] Hurt

Edgy DC Aug 18 2009 09:36 PM

And not particularly effective this season.

smg58 Aug 19 2009 08:42 AM

I too have had enough of Livan, but there's nothing on the line and our options are nonexistent. Unlike Parnell, the guys we could call up a this point have no chance of being part of next year's rotation, so I see no benefit even looking ahead. As for Stokes, his .313/.420/.446 split against lefthanded batters is really not encouraging for a prospective starter, especially since he is a nice asset in the role he currently has. If we were much closer in the standings and I had to choose between Stokes and Livan I would give Stokes the ball. As it stands, Stokes is fine where he is and I see no point in messing with it. The fact that Livan and Tim Redding have managed to stay on the roster all year says everything about our injury luck that you need to know. And our luck has been even worse with the hitters. Sigh.

Gwreck Aug 19 2009 10:38 AM

Redding spent the first 6 weeks of the season on the DL.

Edgy DC Aug 19 2009 11:32 AM

="smg58":15ha0jg1]If we were much closer in the standings and I had to choose between Stokes and Livan I would give Stokes the ball. As it stands, Stokes is fine where he is and I see no point in messing with it.[/quote:15ha0jg1] Do you think there's some risk of him being set back on his future potential as a reliever? smg58 Aug 19 2009 11:42 AM I think there's a small amount of injury risk anytime you stretch out a pitcher who's been making mostly one-inning appearances. With Parnell, the chance of him being a bigger asset in the rotation than he is in the pen is worth the risk to find out. I don't think Stokes has the same upside. Rockin' Doc Aug 19 2009 10:11 PM Edgy DC - "Seen enough of Livan?" Too much. Nymr83 Aug 19 2009 11:55 PM i don't care if Parnell gets shelled because we need to find out what Parnell can do for next year, but Livan isn't part of the future here and he isn't performing now so ship him out. I don't care who pitches in his place, as long as they are under 30 and we are at least getting valuable data as to who might be good for later. Frayed Knot Aug 20 2009 02:05 PM Well, we're going find out about life after Livan -- he was released today to make room for Billy Wags. Benjamin Grimm Aug 20 2009 02:32 PM Does that mean he's out of the rotation? John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 20 2009 03:16 PM Not to get my FEEEEELINGS into this but I hate Wagner and liked Livan, and can't believe Redding survives yet another day. Gwreck Aug 20 2009 03:21 PM I'd have at least given that next start to Figueroa instead of Redding. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 20 2009 03:27 PM ="Gwreck":h4fsyqqt]I'd have at least given that next start to Figueroa instead of Redding.[/quote:h4fsyqqt] If only MLB rules permitted, I would love to have given them both the start, trading off innings in a sort of Dueling-AAAAers hoedown. Alas. Do we get a 'Memories-of-Livan', or should I be headed to that Eternal Sunshine place to get 'em wiped?

[Guest Edgy DC]

And not particularly effective this season.

[smg58]

I too have had enough of Livan, but there's nothing on the line and our options are nonexistent. Unlike Parnell, the guys we could call up a this point have no chance of being part of next year's rotation, so I see no benefit even looking ahead. As for Stokes, his .313/.420/.446 split against lefthanded batters is really not encouraging for a prospective starter, especially since he is a nice asset in the role he currently has. If we were much closer in the standings and I had to choose between Stokes and Livan I would give Stokes the ball. As it stands, Stokes is fine where he is and I see no point in messing with it.

The fact that Livan and Tim Redding have managed to stay on the roster all year says everything about our injury luck that you need to know. And our luck has been even worse with the hitters. Sigh.

[Gwreck]

Redding spent the first 6 weeks of the season on the DL.

[Guest Edgy DC]

="smg58":15ha0jg1]If we were much closer in the standings and I had to choose between Stokes and Livan I would give Stokes the ball. As it stands, Stokes is fine where he is and I see no point in messing with it.[/quote:15ha0jg1] Do you think there's some risk of him being set back on his future potential as a reliever?

smg58 Aug 19 2009 11:42 AM

I think there's a small amount of injury risk anytime you stretch out a pitcher who's been making mostly one-inning appearances. With Parnell, the chance of him being a bigger asset in the rotation than he is in the pen is worth the risk to find out. I don't think Stokes has the same upside.

Rockin' Doc Aug 19 2009 10:11 PM

Edgy DC - "Seen enough of Livan?" Too much.

Nymr83 Aug 19 2009 11:55 PM

i don't care if Parnell gets shelled because we need to find out what Parnell can do for next year, but Livan isn't part of the future here and he isn't performing now so ship him out. I don't care who pitches in his place, as long as they are under 30 and we are at least getting valuable data as to who might be good for later.

Frayed Knot Aug 20 2009 02:05 PM

Well, we're going find out about life after Livan -- he was released today to make room for Billy Wags.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 20 2009 02:32 PM

Does that mean he's out of the rotation?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 20 2009 03:16 PM

Not to get my FEEEEELINGS into this but I hate Wagner and liked Livan, and can't believe Redding survives yet another day.

Gwreck Aug 20 2009 03:21 PM

I'd have at least given that next start to Figueroa instead of Redding.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 20 2009 03:27 PM

="Gwreck":h4fsyqqt]I'd have at least given that next start to Figueroa instead of Redding.[/quote:h4fsyqqt] If only MLB rules permitted, I would love to have given them both the start, trading off innings in a sort of Dueling-AAAAers hoedown. Alas. Do we get a 'Memories-of-Livan', or should I be headed to that Eternal Sunshine place to get 'em wiped?

[smg58]

I think there's a small amount of injury risk anytime you stretch out a pitcher who's been making mostly one-inning appearances. With Parnell, the chance of him being a bigger asset in the rotation than he is in the pen is worth the risk to find out. I don't think Stokes has the same upside.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Edgy DC - "Seen enough of Livan?"

Too much.

[nymr83]

i don't care if Parnell gets shelled because we need to find out what Parnell can do for next year, but Livan isn't part of the future here and he isn't performing now so ship him out. I don't care who pitches in his place, as long as they are under 30 and we are at least getting valuable data as to who might be good for later.

[Frayed Knot]

Well, we're going find out about life after Livan -- he was released today to make room for Billy Wags.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Does that mean he's out of the rotation?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Not to get my FEEEEELINGS into this but I hate Wagner and liked Livan, and can't believe Redding survives yet another day.

[Gwreck]

I'd have at least given that next start to Figueroa instead of Redding.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

="Gwreck":h4fsyqqt]I'd have at least given that next start to Figueroa instead of Redding.[/quote:h4fsyqqt] If only MLB rules permitted, I would love to have given them both the start, trading off innings in a sort of Dueling-AAAAers hoedown. Alas. Do we get a 'Memories-of-Livan', or should I be headed to that Eternal Sunshine place to get 'em wiped?