Tony Bernazard, Profanity-Laced Tirader

stevejrogers · July 24, 2009

="Frayed Knot":121a00be]Met fans suddenly care a whole fuckin lot about the off-field actions of asst GMs.[/quote:121a00be]

When it becomes public record, yeah, you'd bet they care a whole fuckin' lot about it.

And yes, I do believe the reaction would be the same if the Mets were playing like the 1986 team, or even the 2006 team, FWIW

Its causing the organization some embarrassment, right now it is just another reason for non Met fans to pile on about the disgrace that this organization has become.

Edgy DC
Jul 24 2009 10:39 PM

Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jul 25 2009 06:34 AM

Yeah, I don't recall a witch hunt to purify the organization of Tim Teufel, Ron Darling, Rick Aguilera and Bob Ojeda when they got in a fight with a handful of police. This, of course, wasn't the first time that year a Met had manhandled a cop, as Dwight Gooden pleaded no contest to having assaulted not one, but two cops.

And from my perspective, it's Met fans doing the piling on, not "non-Met fans."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 24 2009 10:47 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 24 2009 10:51 PM

="Edgy DC"]
Only way these guys came up is you claimed nobody has contributed from those drafts, and I reported on anybody from those drafts who has had a big league salad.

It's hard enough to figure out whether a failed prospect is a failure on the scouting side or on the development side. (Or, similarly, to whose credit a success should go.) But it sure seems here folks are trying to just come up with enough information to meet a foregone conclusion.

I think I was a bit unclear in that first post, and my meaning was missed. I wasn't stating that the Mets received no contribution from their recent draftees; rather, I was arguing that having a handful of players make the majors isn't indicative of a minor-league system's fertility... and that the performance of these guys, if anything, may point to the opposite. (May.)

But, yeah, there's a whole bunch of rush-to-judgement here. What I'm advocating is a rush to scrutiny-- an actual investigation by the team-- and by fans-- of the system over the last 3 years.

="SteveJRogers"]And yes, I do believe the reaction would be the same if the Mets were playing like the 1986 team, or even the 2006 team, FWIW

With all due respect, I disagree entirely. The amount and intensity of the pile-on is almost entirely a function of how little there is to talk about in terms of on-field positives; most of the stories-- and fan-talk, really-- seem to make the point, implicitly and explicitly, that the off-field disorder mirrors the on-field decrepitude.

Edgy DC
Jul 24 2009 10:49 PM

I love scrutiny. I think I'm gonna name my kid Scrutiny.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 24 2009 10:52 PM

="Edgy DC"]I love scrutiny. I think I'm gonna name my kid Scrutiny.

Girl? It's a little bit girly, is why I ask.

Frayed Knot
Jul 25 2009 05:53 AM

="SteveJRogers"]

="Frayed Knot"]Met fans suddenly care a whole fuckin lot about the off-field actions of asst GMs.

When it becomes public record, yeah, you'd bet they care a whole fuckin' lot about it.

And yes, I do believe the reaction would be the same if the Mets were playing like the 1986 team, or even the 2006 team, FWIW

Its causing the organization some embarrassment, right now it is just another reason for non Met fans to pile on about the disgrace that this organization has become.

And when did this organization become "a disgrace"? --- Oh about the time they stopped winning games I'm gonna guess.

Don t kid yourself that this has nothing to do with the W/L record.
It shirley would be a story in any case, but it turns into an 8-page thread with demands for his immediate firing (if not deportation and/or execution) when it comes during a time when fans are looking for scapegoats to blame and otherwise anonymous asst GMs (like un-named doctors) make convenient targets.

That Bernazard made himself an easy mark from the "street Spanish" days (and I don't think the fact that he's Spanish is a non-factor either) and seems to, at best, have an abrasive rep via the press contributes. But we're already in to a guilty before the facts mode where we know he's guilty of saying what he said to the players ... and even if he didn't what's he doing there anyway since he has nothing to do with player development? ... and even if he does the player development sucks ... and even where it doesn't suck he had nothing to do with the ones who did make it and everything to do with the ones who didn't.

Winning teams have stories like players drinking in the clubhouse and making plane reservations out of town while a playoff game is going on turn into cute stories if they win. Had that team NOT won those stories take on a whole different shading.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 04:44 PM

="Frayed Knot"]

="SteveJRogers"]

="Frayed Knot"]Met fans suddenly care a whole fuckin lot about the off-field actions of asst GMs.

When it becomes public record, yeah, you'd bet they care a whole fuckin' lot about it.

And yes, I do believe the reaction would be the same if the Mets were playing like the 1986 team, or even the 2006 team, FWIW

Its causing the organization some embarrassment, right now it is just another reason for non Met fans to pile on about the disgrace that this organization has become.

And when did this organization become "a disgrace"? --- Oh about the time they stopped winning games I'm gonna guess.

Don t kid yourself that this has nothing to do with the W/L record.
It shirley would be a story in any case, but it turns into an 8-page thread with demands for his immediate firing (if not deportation and/or execution) when it comes during a time when fans are looking for scapegoats to blame and otherwise anonymous asst GMs (like un-named doctors) make convenient targets.

That Bernazard made himself an easy mark from the "street Spanish" days (and I don't think the fact that he's Spanish is a non-factor either) and seems to, at best, have an abrasive rep via the press contributes. But we're already in to a guilty before the facts mode where we know he's guilty of saying what he said to the players ... and even if he didn't what's he doing there anyway since he has nothing to do with player development? ... and even if he does the player development sucks ... and even where it doesn't suck he had nothing to do with the ones who did make it and everything to do with the ones who didn't.

Winning teams have stories like players drinking in the clubhouse and making plane reservations out of town while a playoff game is going on turn into cute stories if they win. Had that team NOT won those stories take on a whole different shading.

Fair enough, but then again perhaps you don't deal with constant barrages of "What a fucking disgrace of an organization you root for" type of comments by either MFY fan or non baseball fan co-workers.

And you also have to give the fact that in 1986 ESPN was yet to explode in terms of daily barrages of information to the mass audiences, WFAN was a year away from being born and Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet.

In other words, it is hard to really say "well, would this have happened when the Mets were winning? I think not." Because certain avenues for fan venting and mass information consumption either hadn't open yet, or were some time from being prevalent.

And things were being said back in 99-00 about how the Mets handled certain situations and the actions of one Bobby Valentine. Sure Met fans were probably going "LALALALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU, how far back are we from the Braves today?" But the non fans were making comments about Valentine's nutty behavior, the Mets refusal to retaliate, especially against the Yankees, and other issues of note.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 05:24 PM

BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.

dgwphotography
Jul 25 2009 05:57 PM

="SteveJRogers":z2ocfwgg]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:z2ocfwgg]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 06:03 PM

="dgwphotography":2ddliwek]

="SteveJRogers":2ddliwek]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:2ddliwek]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:2ddliwek]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.

Kong76
Jul 25 2009 06:08 PM

dgw: This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born <<<

Plus, they probably pick on him (like some of us) because he's a closet
Yankee fan in Mets' clothing.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 06:30 PM

]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

you'd have to start the year 81-0 and lose to a team that started 0-81 in a one game playoff for the division in order to equal that yankee playoff collapse during the regular season.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 06:58 PM

="Nymr83"]

]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

you'd have to start the year 81-0 and lose to a team that started 0-81 in a one game playoff for the division in order to equal that yankee playoff collapse during the regular season.

Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. The Yankees still got to the postseason, and even won a series, the Mets choked away a chance to be in, not just the postseason, but a one game playoff as well (so in a sense it was even worse than the 1978 Red Sox, 1951 Dodgers or any other team that got caught and a playoff game/series was necessitated.

So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse, but that is part of the point, what has been going on with this franchise has been just another opportunity after another for the organization to be considered an absolute utter disgrace.

Hell, the Yankees did make it back to the postseason the following year, and three more years after that, and probably will make it again this year. That's more to the point where the Mets are seen as a joke in the eyes of many.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 07:30 PM

]The Yankees still got to the postseason, and even won a series, the Mets choked away a chance to be in, not just the postseason, but a one game playoff as well (so in a sense it was even worse than the 1978 Red Sox, 1951 Dodgers or any other team that got caught and a playoff game/series was necessitated.

So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse,

i don't agree. the Yanks had a better year (because they made a postseaon and won the frst round), but their collapse was still worse being that it took place in the postseason

Kong76
Jul 25 2009 07:42 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 25 2009 07:48 PM

*post removed, for duh-ness*

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 07:47 PM

No, its worse because it continues to perpetuate the notion that the Mets are losers and a pathetic organization.

Especially in light of what happened last year, and this current campaign.

Again, the Yankees were back in the postseason in 2005-2007 and most likely will be in it again this season.

Historically the Yankees losing the 2004 ALCS is a bump in the road, the 7 up with 17 to play 2007 Mets is yet another reason to say how the Met organization is a disgrace to professional sports.

Frayed Knot
Jul 25 2009 07:53 PM

][Fair enough, but then again perhaps you don't deal with constant barrages of "What a fucking disgrace of an organization you root for" type of comments by either MFY fan or non baseball fan co-workers.

It wouldn't matter because I don't wrap my self-esteem up in the current status of a baseball team to the point where I react to taunting from those who do by demanding that some assistant be fired even though he may or may not be part of the problem.
Besides, it wasn't a Yanqui fan that brought up the "disgrace" line it was y ... oh wait, nevermind.

[walked into that one]

Fman99
Jul 25 2009 08:23 PM

="SteveJRogers":1scxpm4q]

="dgwphotography":1scxpm4q]

="SteveJRogers":1scxpm4q]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:1scxpm4q]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:1scxpm4q]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:1scxpm4q]

I think you're problem is that you give a flying fuck what a Yankee fan thinks. Like they're people.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 08:49 PM

] by demanding that some assistant be fired even though he may or may not be part of the problem

i want him fired for trying to fight ballplayers, nothing else. is he "part of the [alleged] problem" in talent development? i don't know or care as long he's challenging our players to fights.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 08:57 PM

="Fman99":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]

="dgwphotography":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:fvuk1kki]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

I think you're problem is that you give a flying fuck what a Yankee fan thinks. Like they're people.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

Because clearly if Met fans shouldn't give a flying fuck about how the Mets are perceived by others, then why should we give a flying fuck about how the "Yankee Way" is a crock of shit?

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 09:43 PM

Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 09:59 PM

="Nymr83":20535dbm]Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.[/quote:20535dbm]

It relates to how the Mets are perceived as an organization by others. But if you are fine rooting for an franchise that is subject to slings and arrows on a seemingly endless basis and counter all those comments with "who gives a fucking rat's ass what the fuck you fuckers think" it really is tough to go the other way on subjects that have to do with other organizations.

In other words, why should THEY, or anyone give a fucking rat's ass what the fuck any fucker says?

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 10:05 PM

Look, this was a black eye for the organization that has way too much of them in recent years, that is the point I'm trying to make.

Yes more is made because the team has been playing horribly, but the point I'm trying to make is that shit like this shouldn't be passed over by Met fans as "if we were winning, no one in the media, internet, sports radio, etc. would give a shit."

Its because it is a black eye for the organization, and fodder for more shit from everyone from bloggers to late night comedians that make it a big deal and one that should be addressed and not swept away. Again, even if the Mets were leading the division by 20 games at this point.

Frayed Knot
Jul 26 2009 08:50 AM

]Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

No, we can comment on it all we want. The mistake, from the Yanqui viewpoint, would be for them to change how they do things solely based on our reaction.

For the same reason, the Mets should decide what to do with Bernazard based on his performance and conduct rather than out of some silly notion that it's going to make MFY fans stop saying 'bad things 'bout the Mets'. And those Met fans who want to make Bernazard the fall-guy whether he deserves it or not are simply playing into the trap of doing things for pr reasons rather than solving the problem itself.

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 06:56 AM

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2ae45851]

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2ae45851]

Pick a side, my son.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 11:49 AM

="Edgy DC":2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2etn8uzp]

Pick a side, my son.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

The hell is your point Edge? You have to be a Yanqui fan to consider the Met collapse in 2007 worse than the Yankees blowing the 2004 ALCS?

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 11:58 AM

The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 12:11 PM

="Edgy DC":2xyqenpp]The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.[/quote:2xyqenpp]

Not really, I showed it as a recent example compared to dgw suggesting that they were not students of history (by saying Tony B's minors incident was worse than Steinbrenner's elevator fight)

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 12:53 PM

My head hurts.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 27 2009 12:56 PM

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

Valadius
Jul 27 2009 03:42 PM

Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.

PiggiesTomatoes
Jul 27 2009 08:15 PM

="Valadius":1xy2oval]Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.[/quote:1xy2oval]

...and Georgie girl. I wouldn't take money to listen or her and Sterling.

MFS62
Jul 27 2009 10:00 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":39c9vxup] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?[/quote:39c9vxup]

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 10:05 PM

="MFS62"]

="metsguyinmichigan"] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

Ahem.

(I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2009 10:10 PM

Double post.

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

](I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

He said "next to last," but Phillies and Tigers came after MFYs, then Red Sox.

Old news, I'd have to say. Plenty to bash MFYs on in this century.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 11:08 PM

Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.

Ashie62
Jul 28 2009 08:11 AM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk]

Or Bernazards emotions

Edgy DC
Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM

Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0

Rockin' Doc
Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM

Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Huh!

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM

Oh, you missed some shee-it.

Ashie62
Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM

A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

July 24, 2009

Yeah, I don't recall a witch hunt to purify the organization of Tim Teufel, Ron Darling, Rick Aguilera and Bob Ojeda when they got in a fight with a handful of police. This, of course, wasn't the first time that year a Met had manhandled a cop, as Dwight Gooden pleaded no contest to having assaulted not one, but two cops.

And from my perspective, it's Met fans doing the piling on, not "non-Met fans."

July 24, 2009

="Edgy DC"]
Only way these guys came up is you claimed nobody has contributed from those drafts, and I reported on anybody from those drafts who has had a big league salad.

It's hard enough to figure out whether a failed prospect is a failure on the scouting side or on the development side. (Or, similarly, to whose credit a success should go.) But it sure seems here folks are trying to just come up with enough information to meet a foregone conclusion.

I think I was a bit unclear in that first post, and my meaning was missed. I wasn't stating that the Mets received no contribution from their recent draftees; rather, I was arguing that having a handful of players make the majors isn't indicative of a minor-league system's fertility... and that the performance of these guys, if anything, may point to the opposite. (May.)

But, yeah, there's a whole bunch of rush-to-judgement here. What I'm advocating is a rush to scrutiny-- an actual investigation by the team-- and by fans-- of the system over the last 3 years.

="SteveJRogers"]And yes, I do believe the reaction would be the same if the Mets were playing like the 1986 team, or even the 2006 team, FWIW

With all due respect, I disagree entirely. The amount and intensity of the pile-on is almost entirely a function of how little there is to talk about in terms of on-field positives; most of the stories-- and fan-talk, really-- seem to make the point, implicitly and explicitly, that the off-field disorder mirrors the on-field decrepitude.

July 24, 2009

I love scrutiny. I think I'm gonna name my kid Scrutiny.

July 24, 2009

="Edgy DC"]I love scrutiny. I think I'm gonna name my kid Scrutiny.

Girl? It's a little bit girly, is why I ask.

Frayed Knot · July 25, 2009

="SteveJRogers"]

="Frayed Knot"]Met fans suddenly care a whole fuckin lot about the off-field actions of asst GMs.

When it becomes public record, yeah, you'd bet they care a whole fuckin' lot about it.

And yes, I do believe the reaction would be the same if the Mets were playing like the 1986 team, or even the 2006 team, FWIW

Its causing the organization some embarrassment, right now it is just another reason for non Met fans to pile on about the disgrace that this organization has become.

And when did this organization become "a disgrace"? --- Oh about the time they stopped winning games I'm gonna guess.

Don t kid yourself that this has nothing to do with the W/L record.
It shirley would be a story in any case, but it turns into an 8-page thread with demands for his immediate firing (if not deportation and/or execution) when it comes during a time when fans are looking for scapegoats to blame and otherwise anonymous asst GMs (like un-named doctors) make convenient targets.

That Bernazard made himself an easy mark from the "street Spanish" days (and I don't think the fact that he's Spanish is a non-factor either) and seems to, at best, have an abrasive rep via the press contributes. But we're already in to a guilty before the facts mode where we know he's guilty of saying what he said to the players ... and even if he didn't what's he doing there anyway since he has nothing to do with player development? ... and even if he does the player development sucks ... and even where it doesn't suck he had nothing to do with the ones who did make it and everything to do with the ones who didn't.

Winning teams have stories like players drinking in the clubhouse and making plane reservations out of town while a playoff game is going on turn into cute stories if they win. Had that team NOT won those stories take on a whole different shading.

stevejrogers · July 25, 2009

="Frayed Knot"]

="SteveJRogers"]

="Frayed Knot"]Met fans suddenly care a whole fuckin lot about the off-field actions of asst GMs.

When it becomes public record, yeah, you'd bet they care a whole fuckin' lot about it.

And yes, I do believe the reaction would be the same if the Mets were playing like the 1986 team, or even the 2006 team, FWIW

Its causing the organization some embarrassment, right now it is just another reason for non Met fans to pile on about the disgrace that this organization has become.

And when did this organization become "a disgrace"? --- Oh about the time they stopped winning games I'm gonna guess.

Don t kid yourself that this has nothing to do with the W/L record.
It shirley would be a story in any case, but it turns into an 8-page thread with demands for his immediate firing (if not deportation and/or execution) when it comes during a time when fans are looking for scapegoats to blame and otherwise anonymous asst GMs (like un-named doctors) make convenient targets.

That Bernazard made himself an easy mark from the "street Spanish" days (and I don't think the fact that he's Spanish is a non-factor either) and seems to, at best, have an abrasive rep via the press contributes. But we're already in to a guilty before the facts mode where we know he's guilty of saying what he said to the players ... and even if he didn't what's he doing there anyway since he has nothing to do with player development? ... and even if he does the player development sucks ... and even where it doesn't suck he had nothing to do with the ones who did make it and everything to do with the ones who didn't.

Winning teams have stories like players drinking in the clubhouse and making plane reservations out of town while a playoff game is going on turn into cute stories if they win. Had that team NOT won those stories take on a whole different shading.

Fair enough, but then again perhaps you don't deal with constant barrages of "What a fucking disgrace of an organization you root for" type of comments by either MFY fan or non baseball fan co-workers.

And you also have to give the fact that in 1986 ESPN was yet to explode in terms of daily barrages of information to the mass audiences, WFAN was a year away from being born and Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet.

In other words, it is hard to really say "well, would this have happened when the Mets were winning? I think not." Because certain avenues for fan venting and mass information consumption either hadn't open yet, or were some time from being prevalent.

And things were being said back in 99-00 about how the Mets handled certain situations and the actions of one Bobby Valentine. Sure Met fans were probably going "LALALALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU, how far back are we from the Braves today?" But the non fans were making comments about Valentine's nutty behavior, the Mets refusal to retaliate, especially against the Yankees, and other issues of note.

stevejrogers · July 25, 2009

BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.

dgwphotography · July 25, 2009

="SteveJRogers":z2ocfwgg]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:z2ocfwgg]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 06:03 PM

="dgwphotography":2ddliwek]

="SteveJRogers":2ddliwek]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:2ddliwek]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:2ddliwek]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.

Kong76
Jul 25 2009 06:08 PM

dgw: This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born <<<

Plus, they probably pick on him (like some of us) because he's a closet
Yankee fan in Mets' clothing.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 06:30 PM

]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

you'd have to start the year 81-0 and lose to a team that started 0-81 in a one game playoff for the division in order to equal that yankee playoff collapse during the regular season.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 06:58 PM

="Nymr83"]

]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

you'd have to start the year 81-0 and lose to a team that started 0-81 in a one game playoff for the division in order to equal that yankee playoff collapse during the regular season.

Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. The Yankees still got to the postseason, and even won a series, the Mets choked away a chance to be in, not just the postseason, but a one game playoff as well (so in a sense it was even worse than the 1978 Red Sox, 1951 Dodgers or any other team that got caught and a playoff game/series was necessitated.

So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse, but that is part of the point, what has been going on with this franchise has been just another opportunity after another for the organization to be considered an absolute utter disgrace.

Hell, the Yankees did make it back to the postseason the following year, and three more years after that, and probably will make it again this year. That's more to the point where the Mets are seen as a joke in the eyes of many.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 07:30 PM

]The Yankees still got to the postseason, and even won a series, the Mets choked away a chance to be in, not just the postseason, but a one game playoff as well (so in a sense it was even worse than the 1978 Red Sox, 1951 Dodgers or any other team that got caught and a playoff game/series was necessitated.

So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse,

i don't agree. the Yanks had a better year (because they made a postseaon and won the frst round), but their collapse was still worse being that it took place in the postseason

Kong76
Jul 25 2009 07:42 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 25 2009 07:48 PM

*post removed, for duh-ness*

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 07:47 PM

No, its worse because it continues to perpetuate the notion that the Mets are losers and a pathetic organization.

Especially in light of what happened last year, and this current campaign.

Again, the Yankees were back in the postseason in 2005-2007 and most likely will be in it again this season.

Historically the Yankees losing the 2004 ALCS is a bump in the road, the 7 up with 17 to play 2007 Mets is yet another reason to say how the Met organization is a disgrace to professional sports.

Frayed Knot
Jul 25 2009 07:53 PM

][Fair enough, but then again perhaps you don't deal with constant barrages of "What a fucking disgrace of an organization you root for" type of comments by either MFY fan or non baseball fan co-workers.

It wouldn't matter because I don't wrap my self-esteem up in the current status of a baseball team to the point where I react to taunting from those who do by demanding that some assistant be fired even though he may or may not be part of the problem.
Besides, it wasn't a Yanqui fan that brought up the "disgrace" line it was y ... oh wait, nevermind.

[walked into that one]

Fman99
Jul 25 2009 08:23 PM

="SteveJRogers":1scxpm4q]

="dgwphotography":1scxpm4q]

="SteveJRogers":1scxpm4q]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:1scxpm4q]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:1scxpm4q]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:1scxpm4q]

I think you're problem is that you give a flying fuck what a Yankee fan thinks. Like they're people.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 08:49 PM

] by demanding that some assistant be fired even though he may or may not be part of the problem

i want him fired for trying to fight ballplayers, nothing else. is he "part of the [alleged] problem" in talent development? i don't know or care as long he's challenging our players to fights.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 08:57 PM

="Fman99":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]

="dgwphotography":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:fvuk1kki]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

I think you're problem is that you give a flying fuck what a Yankee fan thinks. Like they're people.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

Because clearly if Met fans shouldn't give a flying fuck about how the Mets are perceived by others, then why should we give a flying fuck about how the "Yankee Way" is a crock of shit?

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 09:43 PM

Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 09:59 PM

="Nymr83":20535dbm]Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.[/quote:20535dbm]

It relates to how the Mets are perceived as an organization by others. But if you are fine rooting for an franchise that is subject to slings and arrows on a seemingly endless basis and counter all those comments with "who gives a fucking rat's ass what the fuck you fuckers think" it really is tough to go the other way on subjects that have to do with other organizations.

In other words, why should THEY, or anyone give a fucking rat's ass what the fuck any fucker says?

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 10:05 PM

Look, this was a black eye for the organization that has way too much of them in recent years, that is the point I'm trying to make.

Yes more is made because the team has been playing horribly, but the point I'm trying to make is that shit like this shouldn't be passed over by Met fans as "if we were winning, no one in the media, internet, sports radio, etc. would give a shit."

Its because it is a black eye for the organization, and fodder for more shit from everyone from bloggers to late night comedians that make it a big deal and one that should be addressed and not swept away. Again, even if the Mets were leading the division by 20 games at this point.

Frayed Knot
Jul 26 2009 08:50 AM

]Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

No, we can comment on it all we want. The mistake, from the Yanqui viewpoint, would be for them to change how they do things solely based on our reaction.

For the same reason, the Mets should decide what to do with Bernazard based on his performance and conduct rather than out of some silly notion that it's going to make MFY fans stop saying 'bad things 'bout the Mets'. And those Met fans who want to make Bernazard the fall-guy whether he deserves it or not are simply playing into the trap of doing things for pr reasons rather than solving the problem itself.

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 06:56 AM

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2ae45851]

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2ae45851]

Pick a side, my son.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 11:49 AM

="Edgy DC":2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2etn8uzp]

Pick a side, my son.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

The hell is your point Edge? You have to be a Yanqui fan to consider the Met collapse in 2007 worse than the Yankees blowing the 2004 ALCS?

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 11:58 AM

The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 12:11 PM

="Edgy DC":2xyqenpp]The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.[/quote:2xyqenpp]

Not really, I showed it as a recent example compared to dgw suggesting that they were not students of history (by saying Tony B's minors incident was worse than Steinbrenner's elevator fight)

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 12:53 PM

My head hurts.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 27 2009 12:56 PM

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

Valadius
Jul 27 2009 03:42 PM

Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.

PiggiesTomatoes
Jul 27 2009 08:15 PM

="Valadius":1xy2oval]Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.[/quote:1xy2oval]

...and Georgie girl. I wouldn't take money to listen or her and Sterling.

MFS62
Jul 27 2009 10:00 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":39c9vxup] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?[/quote:39c9vxup]

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 10:05 PM

="MFS62"]

="metsguyinmichigan"] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

Ahem.

(I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2009 10:10 PM

Double post.

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

](I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

He said "next to last," but Phillies and Tigers came after MFYs, then Red Sox.

Old news, I'd have to say. Plenty to bash MFYs on in this century.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 11:08 PM

Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.

Ashie62
Jul 28 2009 08:11 AM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk]

Or Bernazards emotions

Edgy DC
Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM

Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0

Rockin' Doc
Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM

Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Huh!

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM

Oh, you missed some shee-it.

Ashie62
Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM

A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

stevejrogers · July 25, 2009

="dgwphotography":2ddliwek]

="SteveJRogers":2ddliwek]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:2ddliwek]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:2ddliwek]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.

Kong76
Jul 25 2009 06:08 PM

dgw: This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born <<<

Plus, they probably pick on him (like some of us) because he's a closet
Yankee fan in Mets' clothing.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 06:30 PM

]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

you'd have to start the year 81-0 and lose to a team that started 0-81 in a one game playoff for the division in order to equal that yankee playoff collapse during the regular season.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 06:58 PM

="Nymr83"]

]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

you'd have to start the year 81-0 and lose to a team that started 0-81 in a one game playoff for the division in order to equal that yankee playoff collapse during the regular season.

Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. The Yankees still got to the postseason, and even won a series, the Mets choked away a chance to be in, not just the postseason, but a one game playoff as well (so in a sense it was even worse than the 1978 Red Sox, 1951 Dodgers or any other team that got caught and a playoff game/series was necessitated.

So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse, but that is part of the point, what has been going on with this franchise has been just another opportunity after another for the organization to be considered an absolute utter disgrace.

Hell, the Yankees did make it back to the postseason the following year, and three more years after that, and probably will make it again this year. That's more to the point where the Mets are seen as a joke in the eyes of many.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 07:30 PM

]The Yankees still got to the postseason, and even won a series, the Mets choked away a chance to be in, not just the postseason, but a one game playoff as well (so in a sense it was even worse than the 1978 Red Sox, 1951 Dodgers or any other team that got caught and a playoff game/series was necessitated.

So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse,

i don't agree. the Yanks had a better year (because they made a postseaon and won the frst round), but their collapse was still worse being that it took place in the postseason

Kong76
Jul 25 2009 07:42 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 25 2009 07:48 PM

*post removed, for duh-ness*

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 07:47 PM

No, its worse because it continues to perpetuate the notion that the Mets are losers and a pathetic organization.

Especially in light of what happened last year, and this current campaign.

Again, the Yankees were back in the postseason in 2005-2007 and most likely will be in it again this season.

Historically the Yankees losing the 2004 ALCS is a bump in the road, the 7 up with 17 to play 2007 Mets is yet another reason to say how the Met organization is a disgrace to professional sports.

Frayed Knot
Jul 25 2009 07:53 PM

][Fair enough, but then again perhaps you don't deal with constant barrages of "What a fucking disgrace of an organization you root for" type of comments by either MFY fan or non baseball fan co-workers.

It wouldn't matter because I don't wrap my self-esteem up in the current status of a baseball team to the point where I react to taunting from those who do by demanding that some assistant be fired even though he may or may not be part of the problem.
Besides, it wasn't a Yanqui fan that brought up the "disgrace" line it was y ... oh wait, nevermind.

[walked into that one]

Fman99
Jul 25 2009 08:23 PM

="SteveJRogers":1scxpm4q]

="dgwphotography":1scxpm4q]

="SteveJRogers":1scxpm4q]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:1scxpm4q]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:1scxpm4q]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:1scxpm4q]

I think you're problem is that you give a flying fuck what a Yankee fan thinks. Like they're people.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 08:49 PM

] by demanding that some assistant be fired even though he may or may not be part of the problem

i want him fired for trying to fight ballplayers, nothing else. is he "part of the [alleged] problem" in talent development? i don't know or care as long he's challenging our players to fights.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 08:57 PM

="Fman99":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]

="dgwphotography":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:fvuk1kki]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

I think you're problem is that you give a flying fuck what a Yankee fan thinks. Like they're people.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

Because clearly if Met fans shouldn't give a flying fuck about how the Mets are perceived by others, then why should we give a flying fuck about how the "Yankee Way" is a crock of shit?

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 09:43 PM

Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 09:59 PM

="Nymr83":20535dbm]Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.[/quote:20535dbm]

It relates to how the Mets are perceived as an organization by others. But if you are fine rooting for an franchise that is subject to slings and arrows on a seemingly endless basis and counter all those comments with "who gives a fucking rat's ass what the fuck you fuckers think" it really is tough to go the other way on subjects that have to do with other organizations.

In other words, why should THEY, or anyone give a fucking rat's ass what the fuck any fucker says?

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 10:05 PM

Look, this was a black eye for the organization that has way too much of them in recent years, that is the point I'm trying to make.

Yes more is made because the team has been playing horribly, but the point I'm trying to make is that shit like this shouldn't be passed over by Met fans as "if we were winning, no one in the media, internet, sports radio, etc. would give a shit."

Its because it is a black eye for the organization, and fodder for more shit from everyone from bloggers to late night comedians that make it a big deal and one that should be addressed and not swept away. Again, even if the Mets were leading the division by 20 games at this point.

Frayed Knot
Jul 26 2009 08:50 AM

]Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

No, we can comment on it all we want. The mistake, from the Yanqui viewpoint, would be for them to change how they do things solely based on our reaction.

For the same reason, the Mets should decide what to do with Bernazard based on his performance and conduct rather than out of some silly notion that it's going to make MFY fans stop saying 'bad things 'bout the Mets'. And those Met fans who want to make Bernazard the fall-guy whether he deserves it or not are simply playing into the trap of doing things for pr reasons rather than solving the problem itself.

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 06:56 AM

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2ae45851]

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2ae45851]

Pick a side, my son.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 11:49 AM

="Edgy DC":2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2etn8uzp]

Pick a side, my son.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

The hell is your point Edge? You have to be a Yanqui fan to consider the Met collapse in 2007 worse than the Yankees blowing the 2004 ALCS?

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 11:58 AM

The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 12:11 PM

="Edgy DC":2xyqenpp]The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.[/quote:2xyqenpp]

Not really, I showed it as a recent example compared to dgw suggesting that they were not students of history (by saying Tony B's minors incident was worse than Steinbrenner's elevator fight)

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 12:53 PM

My head hurts.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 27 2009 12:56 PM

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

Valadius
Jul 27 2009 03:42 PM

Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.

PiggiesTomatoes
Jul 27 2009 08:15 PM

="Valadius":1xy2oval]Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.[/quote:1xy2oval]

...and Georgie girl. I wouldn't take money to listen or her and Sterling.

MFS62
Jul 27 2009 10:00 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":39c9vxup] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?[/quote:39c9vxup]

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 10:05 PM

="MFS62"]

="metsguyinmichigan"] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

Ahem.

(I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2009 10:10 PM

Double post.

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

](I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

He said "next to last," but Phillies and Tigers came after MFYs, then Red Sox.

Old news, I'd have to say. Plenty to bash MFYs on in this century.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 11:08 PM

Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.

Ashie62
Jul 28 2009 08:11 AM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk]

Or Bernazards emotions

Edgy DC
Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM

Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0

Rockin' Doc
Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM

Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Huh!

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM

Oh, you missed some shee-it.

Ashie62
Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM

A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

July 25, 2009

dgw: This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born <<<

Plus, they probably pick on him (like some of us) because he's a closet
Yankee fan in Mets' clothing.

nymr83 · July 25, 2009

]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

you'd have to start the year 81-0 and lose to a team that started 0-81 in a one game playoff for the division in order to equal that yankee playoff collapse during the regular season.

stevejrogers · July 25, 2009

="Nymr83"]

]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

you'd have to start the year 81-0 and lose to a team that started 0-81 in a one game playoff for the division in order to equal that yankee playoff collapse during the regular season.

Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. The Yankees still got to the postseason, and even won a series, the Mets choked away a chance to be in, not just the postseason, but a one game playoff as well (so in a sense it was even worse than the 1978 Red Sox, 1951 Dodgers or any other team that got caught and a playoff game/series was necessitated.

So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse, but that is part of the point, what has been going on with this franchise has been just another opportunity after another for the organization to be considered an absolute utter disgrace.

Hell, the Yankees did make it back to the postseason the following year, and three more years after that, and probably will make it again this year. That's more to the point where the Mets are seen as a joke in the eyes of many.

nymr83 · July 25, 2009

]The Yankees still got to the postseason, and even won a series, the Mets choked away a chance to be in, not just the postseason, but a one game playoff as well (so in a sense it was even worse than the 1978 Red Sox, 1951 Dodgers or any other team that got caught and a playoff game/series was necessitated.

So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse,

i don't agree. the Yanks had a better year (because they made a postseaon and won the frst round), but their collapse was still worse being that it took place in the postseason

July 25, 2009

*post removed, for duh-ness*

stevejrogers · July 25, 2009

No, its worse because it continues to perpetuate the notion that the Mets are losers and a pathetic organization.

Especially in light of what happened last year, and this current campaign.

Again, the Yankees were back in the postseason in 2005-2007 and most likely will be in it again this season.

Historically the Yankees losing the 2004 ALCS is a bump in the road, the 7 up with 17 to play 2007 Mets is yet another reason to say how the Met organization is a disgrace to professional sports.

Frayed Knot · July 25, 2009

][Fair enough, but then again perhaps you don't deal with constant barrages of "What a fucking disgrace of an organization you root for" type of comments by either MFY fan or non baseball fan co-workers.

It wouldn't matter because I don't wrap my self-esteem up in the current status of a baseball team to the point where I react to taunting from those who do by demanding that some assistant be fired even though he may or may not be part of the problem.
Besides, it wasn't a Yanqui fan that brought up the "disgrace" line it was y ... oh wait, nevermind.

[walked into that one]

Fman99 · July 25, 2009

="SteveJRogers":1scxpm4q]

="dgwphotography":1scxpm4q]

="SteveJRogers":1scxpm4q]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:1scxpm4q]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:1scxpm4q]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:1scxpm4q]

I think you're problem is that you give a flying fuck what a Yankee fan thinks. Like they're people.

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 08:49 PM

] by demanding that some assistant be fired even though he may or may not be part of the problem

i want him fired for trying to fight ballplayers, nothing else. is he "part of the [alleged] problem" in talent development? i don't know or care as long he's challenging our players to fights.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 08:57 PM

="Fman99":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]

="dgwphotography":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:fvuk1kki]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

I think you're problem is that you give a flying fuck what a Yankee fan thinks. Like they're people.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

Because clearly if Met fans shouldn't give a flying fuck about how the Mets are perceived by others, then why should we give a flying fuck about how the "Yankee Way" is a crock of shit?

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 09:43 PM

Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 09:59 PM

="Nymr83":20535dbm]Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.[/quote:20535dbm]

It relates to how the Mets are perceived as an organization by others. But if you are fine rooting for an franchise that is subject to slings and arrows on a seemingly endless basis and counter all those comments with "who gives a fucking rat's ass what the fuck you fuckers think" it really is tough to go the other way on subjects that have to do with other organizations.

In other words, why should THEY, or anyone give a fucking rat's ass what the fuck any fucker says?

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 10:05 PM

Look, this was a black eye for the organization that has way too much of them in recent years, that is the point I'm trying to make.

Yes more is made because the team has been playing horribly, but the point I'm trying to make is that shit like this shouldn't be passed over by Met fans as "if we were winning, no one in the media, internet, sports radio, etc. would give a shit."

Its because it is a black eye for the organization, and fodder for more shit from everyone from bloggers to late night comedians that make it a big deal and one that should be addressed and not swept away. Again, even if the Mets were leading the division by 20 games at this point.

Frayed Knot
Jul 26 2009 08:50 AM

]Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

No, we can comment on it all we want. The mistake, from the Yanqui viewpoint, would be for them to change how they do things solely based on our reaction.

For the same reason, the Mets should decide what to do with Bernazard based on his performance and conduct rather than out of some silly notion that it's going to make MFY fans stop saying 'bad things 'bout the Mets'. And those Met fans who want to make Bernazard the fall-guy whether he deserves it or not are simply playing into the trap of doing things for pr reasons rather than solving the problem itself.

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 06:56 AM

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2ae45851]

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2ae45851]

Pick a side, my son.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 11:49 AM

="Edgy DC":2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2etn8uzp]

Pick a side, my son.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

The hell is your point Edge? You have to be a Yanqui fan to consider the Met collapse in 2007 worse than the Yankees blowing the 2004 ALCS?

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 11:58 AM

The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 12:11 PM

="Edgy DC":2xyqenpp]The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.[/quote:2xyqenpp]

Not really, I showed it as a recent example compared to dgw suggesting that they were not students of history (by saying Tony B's minors incident was worse than Steinbrenner's elevator fight)

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 12:53 PM

My head hurts.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 27 2009 12:56 PM

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

Valadius
Jul 27 2009 03:42 PM

Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.

PiggiesTomatoes
Jul 27 2009 08:15 PM

="Valadius":1xy2oval]Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.[/quote:1xy2oval]

...and Georgie girl. I wouldn't take money to listen or her and Sterling.

MFS62
Jul 27 2009 10:00 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":39c9vxup] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?[/quote:39c9vxup]

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 10:05 PM

="MFS62"]

="metsguyinmichigan"] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

Ahem.

(I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2009 10:10 PM

Double post.

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

](I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

He said "next to last," but Phillies and Tigers came after MFYs, then Red Sox.

Old news, I'd have to say. Plenty to bash MFYs on in this century.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 11:08 PM

Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.

Ashie62
Jul 28 2009 08:11 AM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk]

Or Bernazards emotions

Edgy DC
Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM

Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0

Rockin' Doc
Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM

Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Huh!

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM

Oh, you missed some shee-it.

Ashie62
Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM

A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

nymr83 · July 25, 2009

] by demanding that some assistant be fired even though he may or may not be part of the problem

i want him fired for trying to fight ballplayers, nothing else. is he "part of the [alleged] problem" in talent development? i don't know or care as long he's challenging our players to fights.

stevejrogers · July 25, 2009

="Fman99":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]

="dgwphotography":fvuk1kki]

="SteveJRogers":fvuk1kki]BTW, case in point of water cooler conversation, the fact that my co-workers think that this was worse than George Steinbrenner having a fight in an elevator with the marshmellow salesmen during the 1981 World Series.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway. This is probably ancient history to your co-workers, and depending on their age, it might have happened before some of them were born...[/quote:fvuk1kki]

They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

I think you're problem is that you give a flying fuck what a Yankee fan thinks. Like they're people.[/quote:fvuk1kki]

Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

Because clearly if Met fans shouldn't give a flying fuck about how the Mets are perceived by others, then why should we give a flying fuck about how the "Yankee Way" is a crock of shit?

Nymr83
Jul 25 2009 09:43 PM

Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 09:59 PM

="Nymr83":20535dbm]Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.[/quote:20535dbm]

It relates to how the Mets are perceived as an organization by others. But if you are fine rooting for an franchise that is subject to slings and arrows on a seemingly endless basis and counter all those comments with "who gives a fucking rat's ass what the fuck you fuckers think" it really is tough to go the other way on subjects that have to do with other organizations.

In other words, why should THEY, or anyone give a fucking rat's ass what the fuck any fucker says?

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 10:05 PM

Look, this was a black eye for the organization that has way too much of them in recent years, that is the point I'm trying to make.

Yes more is made because the team has been playing horribly, but the point I'm trying to make is that shit like this shouldn't be passed over by Met fans as "if we were winning, no one in the media, internet, sports radio, etc. would give a shit."

Its because it is a black eye for the organization, and fodder for more shit from everyone from bloggers to late night comedians that make it a big deal and one that should be addressed and not swept away. Again, even if the Mets were leading the division by 20 games at this point.

Frayed Knot
Jul 26 2009 08:50 AM

]Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

No, we can comment on it all we want. The mistake, from the Yanqui viewpoint, would be for them to change how they do things solely based on our reaction.

For the same reason, the Mets should decide what to do with Bernazard based on his performance and conduct rather than out of some silly notion that it's going to make MFY fans stop saying 'bad things 'bout the Mets'. And those Met fans who want to make Bernazard the fall-guy whether he deserves it or not are simply playing into the trap of doing things for pr reasons rather than solving the problem itself.

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 06:56 AM

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2ae45851]

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2ae45851]

Pick a side, my son.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 11:49 AM

="Edgy DC":2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2etn8uzp]

Pick a side, my son.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

The hell is your point Edge? You have to be a Yanqui fan to consider the Met collapse in 2007 worse than the Yankees blowing the 2004 ALCS?

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 11:58 AM

The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 12:11 PM

="Edgy DC":2xyqenpp]The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.[/quote:2xyqenpp]

Not really, I showed it as a recent example compared to dgw suggesting that they were not students of history (by saying Tony B's minors incident was worse than Steinbrenner's elevator fight)

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 12:53 PM

My head hurts.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 27 2009 12:56 PM

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

Valadius
Jul 27 2009 03:42 PM

Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.

PiggiesTomatoes
Jul 27 2009 08:15 PM

="Valadius":1xy2oval]Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.[/quote:1xy2oval]

...and Georgie girl. I wouldn't take money to listen or her and Sterling.

MFS62
Jul 27 2009 10:00 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":39c9vxup] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?[/quote:39c9vxup]

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 10:05 PM

="MFS62"]

="metsguyinmichigan"] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

Ahem.

(I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2009 10:10 PM

Double post.

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

](I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

He said "next to last," but Phillies and Tigers came after MFYs, then Red Sox.

Old news, I'd have to say. Plenty to bash MFYs on in this century.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 11:08 PM

Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.

Ashie62
Jul 28 2009 08:11 AM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk]

Or Bernazards emotions

Edgy DC
Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM

Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0

Rockin' Doc
Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM

Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Huh!

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM

Oh, you missed some shee-it.

Ashie62
Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM

A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

nymr83 · July 25, 2009

Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.

stevejrogers · July 25, 2009

="Nymr83":20535dbm]Don't tell us what its ok to comment on.[/quote:20535dbm]

It relates to how the Mets are perceived as an organization by others. But if you are fine rooting for an franchise that is subject to slings and arrows on a seemingly endless basis and counter all those comments with "who gives a fucking rat's ass what the fuck you fuckers think" it really is tough to go the other way on subjects that have to do with other organizations.

In other words, why should THEY, or anyone give a fucking rat's ass what the fuck any fucker says?

SteveJRogers
Jul 25 2009 10:05 PM

Look, this was a black eye for the organization that has way too much of them in recent years, that is the point I'm trying to make.

Yes more is made because the team has been playing horribly, but the point I'm trying to make is that shit like this shouldn't be passed over by Met fans as "if we were winning, no one in the media, internet, sports radio, etc. would give a shit."

Its because it is a black eye for the organization, and fodder for more shit from everyone from bloggers to late night comedians that make it a big deal and one that should be addressed and not swept away. Again, even if the Mets were leading the division by 20 games at this point.

Frayed Knot
Jul 26 2009 08:50 AM

]Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

No, we can comment on it all we want. The mistake, from the Yanqui viewpoint, would be for them to change how they do things solely based on our reaction.

For the same reason, the Mets should decide what to do with Bernazard based on his performance and conduct rather than out of some silly notion that it's going to make MFY fans stop saying 'bad things 'bout the Mets'. And those Met fans who want to make Bernazard the fall-guy whether he deserves it or not are simply playing into the trap of doing things for pr reasons rather than solving the problem itself.

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 06:56 AM

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2ae45851]

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2ae45851]

Pick a side, my son.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 11:49 AM

="Edgy DC":2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2etn8uzp]

Pick a side, my son.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

The hell is your point Edge? You have to be a Yanqui fan to consider the Met collapse in 2007 worse than the Yankees blowing the 2004 ALCS?

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 11:58 AM

The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 12:11 PM

="Edgy DC":2xyqenpp]The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.[/quote:2xyqenpp]

Not really, I showed it as a recent example compared to dgw suggesting that they were not students of history (by saying Tony B's minors incident was worse than Steinbrenner's elevator fight)

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 12:53 PM

My head hurts.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 27 2009 12:56 PM

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

Valadius
Jul 27 2009 03:42 PM

Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.

PiggiesTomatoes
Jul 27 2009 08:15 PM

="Valadius":1xy2oval]Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.[/quote:1xy2oval]

...and Georgie girl. I wouldn't take money to listen or her and Sterling.

MFS62
Jul 27 2009 10:00 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":39c9vxup] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?[/quote:39c9vxup]

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 10:05 PM

="MFS62"]

="metsguyinmichigan"] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

Ahem.

(I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2009 10:10 PM

Double post.

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

](I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

He said "next to last," but Phillies and Tigers came after MFYs, then Red Sox.

Old news, I'd have to say. Plenty to bash MFYs on in this century.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 11:08 PM

Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.

Ashie62
Jul 28 2009 08:11 AM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk]

Or Bernazards emotions

Edgy DC
Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM

Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0

Rockin' Doc
Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM

Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Huh!

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM

Oh, you missed some shee-it.

Ashie62
Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM

A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

stevejrogers · July 25, 2009

Look, this was a black eye for the organization that has way too much of them in recent years, that is the point I'm trying to make.

Yes more is made because the team has been playing horribly, but the point I'm trying to make is that shit like this shouldn't be passed over by Met fans as "if we were winning, no one in the media, internet, sports radio, etc. would give a shit."

Its because it is a black eye for the organization, and fodder for more shit from everyone from bloggers to late night comedians that make it a big deal and one that should be addressed and not swept away. Again, even if the Mets were leading the division by 20 games at this point.

Frayed Knot · July 26, 2009

]Then we shouldn't comment on how certain things are counter to the Yankees carefully crafted "image" of being the classiest organization in the game or whatever the fuck they are hyping themselves as.

No, we can comment on it all we want. The mistake, from the Yanqui viewpoint, would be for them to change how they do things solely based on our reaction.

For the same reason, the Mets should decide what to do with Bernazard based on his performance and conduct rather than out of some silly notion that it's going to make MFY fans stop saying 'bad things 'bout the Mets'. And those Met fans who want to make Bernazard the fall-guy whether he deserves it or not are simply playing into the trap of doing things for pr reasons rather than solving the problem itself.

July 27, 2009

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2ae45851]

="SteveJRogers":2ae45851]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2ae45851]

Pick a side, my son.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 11:49 AM

="Edgy DC":2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2etn8uzp]

Pick a side, my son.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

The hell is your point Edge? You have to be a Yanqui fan to consider the Met collapse in 2007 worse than the Yankees blowing the 2004 ALCS?

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 11:58 AM

The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 12:11 PM

="Edgy DC":2xyqenpp]The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.[/quote:2xyqenpp]

Not really, I showed it as a recent example compared to dgw suggesting that they were not students of history (by saying Tony B's minors incident was worse than Steinbrenner's elevator fight)

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 12:53 PM

My head hurts.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 27 2009 12:56 PM

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

Valadius
Jul 27 2009 03:42 PM

Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.

PiggiesTomatoes
Jul 27 2009 08:15 PM

="Valadius":1xy2oval]Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.[/quote:1xy2oval]

...and Georgie girl. I wouldn't take money to listen or her and Sterling.

MFS62
Jul 27 2009 10:00 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":39c9vxup] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?[/quote:39c9vxup]

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 10:05 PM

="MFS62"]

="metsguyinmichigan"] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

Ahem.

(I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2009 10:10 PM

Double post.

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

](I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

He said "next to last," but Phillies and Tigers came after MFYs, then Red Sox.

Old news, I'd have to say. Plenty to bash MFYs on in this century.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 11:08 PM

Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.

Ashie62
Jul 28 2009 08:11 AM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk]

Or Bernazards emotions

Edgy DC
Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM

Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0

Rockin' Doc
Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM

Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Huh!

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM

Oh, you missed some shee-it.

Ashie62
Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM

A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

stevejrogers · July 27, 2009

="Edgy DC":2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]They also (even the non-Yankee or non-baseball fans) think that the Mets collapse in 2007 was worse than the Yankees losing a playoff series after being up 3-0.

Just to show where they are coming from, it doesn't have anything to do with remembering facts of a long ago incident.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

="SteveJRogers":2etn8uzp]Their point though is valid, it was still a POSTSEASON series. ...So yeah I actually do agree that the Met collapse was worse... .[/quote:2etn8uzp]

Pick a side, my son.[/quote:2etn8uzp]

The hell is your point Edge? You have to be a Yanqui fan to consider the Met collapse in 2007 worse than the Yankees blowing the 2004 ALCS?

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 11:58 AM

The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.

SteveJRogers
Jul 27 2009 12:11 PM

="Edgy DC":2xyqenpp]The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.[/quote:2xyqenpp]

Not really, I showed it as a recent example compared to dgw suggesting that they were not students of history (by saying Tony B's minors incident was worse than Steinbrenner's elevator fight)

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 12:53 PM

My head hurts.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 27 2009 12:56 PM

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

Valadius
Jul 27 2009 03:42 PM

Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.

PiggiesTomatoes
Jul 27 2009 08:15 PM

="Valadius":1xy2oval]Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.[/quote:1xy2oval]

...and Georgie girl. I wouldn't take money to listen or her and Sterling.

MFS62
Jul 27 2009 10:00 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":39c9vxup] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?[/quote:39c9vxup]

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 10:05 PM

="MFS62"]

="metsguyinmichigan"] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

Ahem.

(I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2009 10:10 PM

Double post.

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

](I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

He said "next to last," but Phillies and Tigers came after MFYs, then Red Sox.

Old news, I'd have to say. Plenty to bash MFYs on in this century.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 11:08 PM

Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.

Ashie62
Jul 28 2009 08:11 AM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk]

Or Bernazards emotions

Edgy DC
Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM

Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0

Rockin' Doc
Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM

Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Huh!

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM

Oh, you missed some shee-it.

Ashie62
Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM

A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

July 27, 2009

The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.

stevejrogers · July 27, 2009

="Edgy DC":2xyqenpp]The hell is my point? Excuse me?

My point is obvious. You seem to consider their perspective self-evidently flawed in one post, and agreeable later.[/quote:2xyqenpp]

Not really, I showed it as a recent example compared to dgw suggesting that they were not students of history (by saying Tony B's minors incident was worse than Steinbrenner's elevator fight)

Edgy DC
Jul 27 2009 12:53 PM

My head hurts.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 27 2009 12:56 PM

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

Valadius
Jul 27 2009 03:42 PM

Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.

PiggiesTomatoes
Jul 27 2009 08:15 PM

="Valadius":1xy2oval]Don't forget the incomparably annoying John Sterling.[/quote:1xy2oval]

...and Georgie girl. I wouldn't take money to listen or her and Sterling.

MFS62
Jul 27 2009 10:00 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":39c9vxup] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?[/quote:39c9vxup]

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 10:05 PM

="MFS62"]

="metsguyinmichigan"] Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

You forgot :
-- Being the next to last Major League team to have a Black player, even though they played in the city that had the first one.

Later

Ahem.

(I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2009 10:10 PM

Double post.

G-Fafif
Jul 27 2009 10:09 PM

](I think that was Boston, with Pumpsie Green.)

He said "next to last," but Phillies and Tigers came after MFYs, then Red Sox.

Old news, I'd have to say. Plenty to bash MFYs on in this century.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jul 27 2009 11:08 PM

Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.

Ashie62
Jul 28 2009 08:11 AM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk]

Or Bernazards emotions

Edgy DC
Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM

Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0

Rockin' Doc
Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM

Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Huh!

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM

Oh, you missed some shee-it.

Ashie62
Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM

A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

July 27, 2009

My head hurts.

July 27, 2009

Mets shame:

-- Idiot front office type takes off shirt to yell at 20-something minor leaguers.
-- Bad patch on sleeve
-- Occasional lapses in fielding.

Yankee shame:

-- Best player outed for using steroids
-- Best pitcher outed for using steroids
-- Best reliever has pool that kills people
-- Michael Kay

Tell me again which organization is a disgrace?

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