In the tank?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

FACT: Starting at the end of this season, this team will likely have a number of roster/lineup holes-- C, 1B, LF/RF, SP-- some of which will require FA solutions.

FACT: Signing Type A FAs will result in forfeiture of 1st-round draft picks, unless the team finishes in the bottom 15. In this case, the team keeps its top-15 pick, and gives up a second-round pick (some 30-50 picks later).

FACT: Given the way that the farm system mirrors the major-league squad-- most value concentrated in a few (far-off) prospects, with iffy-to-bad value below the top layer(s)-- this team can hardly afford to lose any more potential blue-chip draft picks.

FACT: If the Mets finish 14th from the bottom in the majors and sign a "A" FA, their first pick is a #14; if they finish, say #16 from the bottom and they sign that "A," then that first pick is a #46-80ish pick (depending on how much "sandwich" is stuffed between the 1st and 2nd rounds).

FACT: Once playoff hopes slip irrevocably into the dollar-and-a-dream realm, tanking-- at least on paper/without taking public image into consideration-- appears better for the team's long-term prospects than not tanking. (Assuming the team can evaluate top prospects correctly.)

So, all the political-ad-type formatting leads me to this...

According to your own sense of the "fan code," is it okay to root actively for a tank-job? If it is okay, then to what extent-- losing to gain/retain valuable draft picks, losing to put pressure on a management staff perceived to be negligent... ? In what circumstances is it okay, in your book?

Lastly, assuming things surrounding the Mets' standing in the division stay just as bleak or worsen quickly over the next 2-4 weeks, does it make sense to do so for this team?

[G-Fafif]

I voted no on principle, but I can see the practical application within narrow parameters, destroying the village in order to save it and such. But I don't like the slippery slope this solution presents.

[Guest themetfairy]

I say no. Whatever your rational mind has to say on the subject, your heart should want your favorite team to do well.

[Gwreck]

This isn't basketball (or even football) where a top draft pick makes an immediate impact on your team.

[bmfc1]

Herm Edwards would vote no.

[nymr83]

="bmfc1":1wlqmkut]Herm Edwards would vote no.[/quote:1wlqmkut] you play. to avoid losing. the game. Edwards is a dope.

metirish Jul 14 2009 04:28 PM

I don't like it , I root for the Mets to win every game they play. It's not like rooting for the Knicks to "win" the lottery ....

dgwphotography Jul 14 2009 05:15 PM

I rooted for the Mets to lose once, for purely selfish reasons... I still feel dirty over it....

metsguyinmichigan Jul 14 2009 06:08 PM

="dgwphotography":34ppy986]I rooted for the Mets to lose once, for purely selfish reasons... I still feel dirty over it....[/quote:34ppy986] Did you have tickets to a Game 6 or 7? OlerudOwned Jul 14 2009 06:25 PM I root for the Mets to win championships. In turn, I root for whatever will help them toward that goal. I don't want them to consciously throw games, but I don't want them to make a stupid stopgap trade either. Rockin' Doc Jul 14 2009 07:32 PM The Mets are my chosen team and as a fan I have never pulled against them or hoped for them to lose. No matter the rationale, I just can't see myself pulling against the Mets in the future. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 14 2009 07:56 PM So far the score is 12 with a chance to amount to something in this world, 5 going straight to hell. Edgy DC Jul 14 2009 08:02 PM ="OlerudOwned":2fqz8skc]I root for the Mets to win championships. In turn, I root for whatever will help them toward that goal. I don't want them to consciously throw games, but I don't want them to make a stupid stopgap trade either.[/quote:2fqz8skc] Which isn't the same thing as rooting for them to lose. Basketball and football fans need to put aside their GM-with-a-top-pick fetish fantasies and realize that they're just fans, all they can do is root, and the game in front of them may be the last game they ever see. Kong76 Jul 14 2009 08:15 PM I voted no. Take away root root root for the home team and I got nothing. Ny83: you play. to avoid losing. the game. Edwards is a dope <<< At least quote him right. It's, "You play to win the game!" you play. to avoid losing. the game. -- looks pretty dopey on screen in this case. Willets Point Jul 14 2009 09:21 PM I think a quick look at the Mets draft history should dispel anyone of the hope that a savior will come via that route. I'm not saying it can't happen, just it would be nice to have our team to the best they can this year and then build on that. Nymr83 Jul 14 2009 10:24 PM ="Kong76"]I voted no. Take away root root root for the home team and I got nothing. Ny83: you play. to avoid losing. the game. Edwards is a dope <<< At least quote him right. It's, "You play to win the game!" you play. to avoid losing. the game. -- looks pretty dopey on screen in this case. i know exactly what the qoute was, i was making fun of him because that wasnt the way he played, he played to "avoid losing" rather than to win dgwphotography Jul 15 2009 10:40 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":1hjbvc6x] ="dgwphotography":1hjbvc6x]I rooted for the Mets to lose once, for purely selfish reasons... I still feel dirty over it....[/quote:1hjbvc6x] Did you have tickets to a Game 6 or 7?[/quote:1hjbvc6x] I had tickets for September 18, 1986. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 11:34 AM ="Gwreck":1ysfshk9]This isn't basketball (or even football) where a top draft pick makes an immediate impact on your team.[/quote:1ysfshk9] Actively rooting for the team to lose is one thing. Wishing after the fact that they'd done a little poorer, especially in a salary-cap league where building through the draft is essential, is quite another. A meaningless, ugly Week 17 win in 2007 cost my Jets 3-4 draft slots-- slots in which stud QB Matt Ryan, explosive RB Darren McFadden, and promising DT Glenn Dorsey were taken (two were need areas for the Jets heading into the season). Baseball-wise, it's different, of course. Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 11:37 AM They ought to reverse the draft order and kill this debate once and for all. Make it winner's ball. Vic Sage Jul 15 2009 02:29 PM never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft. G-Fafif Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM I rooted for Padres emergency closer Jesse Orosco to retire transient Mets second baseman Roberto Alomar with the game literally on the line in 2003 because Orosco deserved one more save at Shea and Alomar had earned my disgust for more than a year. It being 2003, I somehow knew, even though it was early in the season, it wasn't going to be the one game that cost us a playoff spot. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM ="Vic Sage":3i7189te]never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft.[/quote:3i7189te] Matt Ryan/Darren McFadden could've been ours. OURS!

[metirish]

I don't like it , I root for the Mets to win every game they play.

It's not like rooting for the Knicks to "win" the lottery ....

[dgwphotography]

I rooted for the Mets to lose once, for purely selfish reasons... I still feel dirty over it....

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

="dgwphotography":34ppy986]I rooted for the Mets to lose once, for purely selfish reasons... I still feel dirty over it....[/quote:34ppy986] Did you have tickets to a Game 6 or 7?

OlerudOwned Jul 14 2009 06:25 PM

I root for the Mets to win championships. In turn, I root for whatever will help them toward that goal. I don't want them to consciously throw games, but I don't want them to make a stupid stopgap trade either.

Rockin' Doc Jul 14 2009 07:32 PM

The Mets are my chosen team and as a fan I have never pulled against them or hoped for them to lose. No matter the rationale, I just can't see myself pulling against the Mets in the future.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 14 2009 07:56 PM

So far the score is 12 with a chance to amount to something in this world, 5 going straight to hell.

Edgy DC Jul 14 2009 08:02 PM

="OlerudOwned":2fqz8skc]I root for the Mets to win championships. In turn, I root for whatever will help them toward that goal. I don't want them to consciously throw games, but I don't want them to make a stupid stopgap trade either.[/quote:2fqz8skc] Which isn't the same thing as rooting for them to lose. Basketball and football fans need to put aside their GM-with-a-top-pick fetish fantasies and realize that they're just fans, all they can do is root, and the game in front of them may be the last game they ever see. Kong76 Jul 14 2009 08:15 PM I voted no. Take away root root root for the home team and I got nothing. Ny83: you play. to avoid losing. the game. Edwards is a dope <<< At least quote him right. It's, "You play to win the game!" you play. to avoid losing. the game. -- looks pretty dopey on screen in this case. Willets Point Jul 14 2009 09:21 PM I think a quick look at the Mets draft history should dispel anyone of the hope that a savior will come via that route. I'm not saying it can't happen, just it would be nice to have our team to the best they can this year and then build on that. Nymr83 Jul 14 2009 10:24 PM ="Kong76"]I voted no. Take away root root root for the home team and I got nothing. Ny83: you play. to avoid losing. the game. Edwards is a dope <<< At least quote him right. It's, "You play to win the game!" you play. to avoid losing. the game. -- looks pretty dopey on screen in this case. i know exactly what the qoute was, i was making fun of him because that wasnt the way he played, he played to "avoid losing" rather than to win dgwphotography Jul 15 2009 10:40 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":1hjbvc6x] ="dgwphotography":1hjbvc6x]I rooted for the Mets to lose once, for purely selfish reasons... I still feel dirty over it....[/quote:1hjbvc6x] Did you have tickets to a Game 6 or 7?[/quote:1hjbvc6x] I had tickets for September 18, 1986. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 11:34 AM ="Gwreck":1ysfshk9]This isn't basketball (or even football) where a top draft pick makes an immediate impact on your team.[/quote:1ysfshk9] Actively rooting for the team to lose is one thing. Wishing after the fact that they'd done a little poorer, especially in a salary-cap league where building through the draft is essential, is quite another. A meaningless, ugly Week 17 win in 2007 cost my Jets 3-4 draft slots-- slots in which stud QB Matt Ryan, explosive RB Darren McFadden, and promising DT Glenn Dorsey were taken (two were need areas for the Jets heading into the season). Baseball-wise, it's different, of course. Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 11:37 AM They ought to reverse the draft order and kill this debate once and for all. Make it winner's ball. Vic Sage Jul 15 2009 02:29 PM never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft. G-Fafif Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM I rooted for Padres emergency closer Jesse Orosco to retire transient Mets second baseman Roberto Alomar with the game literally on the line in 2003 because Orosco deserved one more save at Shea and Alomar had earned my disgust for more than a year. It being 2003, I somehow knew, even though it was early in the season, it wasn't going to be the one game that cost us a playoff spot. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM ="Vic Sage":3i7189te]never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft.[/quote:3i7189te] Matt Ryan/Darren McFadden could've been ours. OURS!

[Guest OlerudOwned]

I root for the Mets to win championships. In turn, I root for whatever will help them toward that goal.

I don't want them to consciously throw games, but I don't want them to make a stupid stopgap trade either.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

The Mets are my chosen team and as a fan I have never pulled against them or hoped for them to lose. No matter the rationale, I just can't see myself pulling against the Mets in the future.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

So far the score is 12 with a chance to amount to something in this world, 5 going straight to hell.

[Guest Edgy DC]

="OlerudOwned":2fqz8skc]I root for the Mets to win championships. In turn, I root for whatever will help them toward that goal. I don't want them to consciously throw games, but I don't want them to make a stupid stopgap trade either.[/quote:2fqz8skc] Which isn't the same thing as rooting for them to lose. Basketball and football fans need to put aside their GM-with-a-top-pick fetish fantasies and realize that they're just fans, all they can do is root, and the game in front of them may be the last game they ever see.

Kong76 Jul 14 2009 08:15 PM

I voted no. Take away root root root for the home team and I got nothing. Ny83: you play. to avoid losing. the game. Edwards is a dope <<< At least quote him right. It's, "You play to win the game!" you play. to avoid losing. the game. -- looks pretty dopey on screen in this case.

Willets Point Jul 14 2009 09:21 PM

I think a quick look at the Mets draft history should dispel anyone of the hope that a savior will come via that route. I'm not saying it can't happen, just it would be nice to have our team to the best they can this year and then build on that.

Nymr83 Jul 14 2009 10:24 PM

="Kong76"]I voted no. Take away root root root for the home team and I got nothing. Ny83: you play. to avoid losing. the game. Edwards is a dope <<< At least quote him right. It's, "You play to win the game!" you play. to avoid losing. the game. -- looks pretty dopey on screen in this case. i know exactly what the qoute was, i was making fun of him because that wasnt the way he played, he played to "avoid losing" rather than to win

dgwphotography Jul 15 2009 10:40 AM

="metsguyinmichigan":1hjbvc6x] ="dgwphotography":1hjbvc6x]I rooted for the Mets to lose once, for purely selfish reasons... I still feel dirty over it....[/quote:1hjbvc6x] Did you have tickets to a Game 6 or 7?[/quote:1hjbvc6x] I had tickets for September 18, 1986. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 11:34 AM ="Gwreck":1ysfshk9]This isn't basketball (or even football) where a top draft pick makes an immediate impact on your team.[/quote:1ysfshk9] Actively rooting for the team to lose is one thing. Wishing after the fact that they'd done a little poorer, especially in a salary-cap league where building through the draft is essential, is quite another. A meaningless, ugly Week 17 win in 2007 cost my Jets 3-4 draft slots-- slots in which stud QB Matt Ryan, explosive RB Darren McFadden, and promising DT Glenn Dorsey were taken (two were need areas for the Jets heading into the season). Baseball-wise, it's different, of course. Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 11:37 AM They ought to reverse the draft order and kill this debate once and for all. Make it winner's ball. Vic Sage Jul 15 2009 02:29 PM never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft. G-Fafif Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM I rooted for Padres emergency closer Jesse Orosco to retire transient Mets second baseman Roberto Alomar with the game literally on the line in 2003 because Orosco deserved one more save at Shea and Alomar had earned my disgust for more than a year. It being 2003, I somehow knew, even though it was early in the season, it wasn't going to be the one game that cost us a playoff spot. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM ="Vic Sage":3i7189te]never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft.[/quote:3i7189te] Matt Ryan/Darren McFadden could've been ours. OURS!

[Guest Kong76]

I voted no. Take away root root root for the home team and I got nothing.

Ny83: you play. to avoid losing. the game.
Edwards is a dope <<<

At least quote him right. It's, "You play to win the game!"

you play. to avoid losing. the game. -- looks pretty dopey on screen in this case.

[Willets Point]

I think a quick look at the Mets draft history should dispel anyone of the hope that a savior will come via that route. I'm not saying it can't happen, just it would be nice to have our team to the best they can this year and then build on that.

[nymr83]

="Kong76"]I voted no. Take away root root root for the home team and I got nothing. Ny83: you play. to avoid losing. the game. Edwards is a dope <<< At least quote him right. It's, "You play to win the game!" you play. to avoid losing. the game. -- looks pretty dopey on screen in this case.

i know exactly what the qoute was, i was making fun of him because that wasnt the way he played, he played to "avoid losing" rather than to win

[dgwphotography]

="metsguyinmichigan":1hjbvc6x] ="dgwphotography":1hjbvc6x]I rooted for the Mets to lose once, for purely selfish reasons... I still feel dirty over it....[/quote:1hjbvc6x] Did you have tickets to a Game 6 or 7?[/quote:1hjbvc6x] I had tickets for September 18, 1986. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 11:34 AM ="Gwreck":1ysfshk9]This isn't basketball (or even football) where a top draft pick makes an immediate impact on your team.[/quote:1ysfshk9] Actively rooting for the team to lose is one thing. Wishing after the fact that they'd done a little poorer, especially in a salary-cap league where building through the draft is essential, is quite another. A meaningless, ugly Week 17 win in 2007 cost my Jets 3-4 draft slots-- slots in which stud QB Matt Ryan, explosive RB Darren McFadden, and promising DT Glenn Dorsey were taken (two were need areas for the Jets heading into the season). Baseball-wise, it's different, of course. Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 11:37 AM They ought to reverse the draft order and kill this debate once and for all. Make it winner's ball. Vic Sage Jul 15 2009 02:29 PM never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft. G-Fafif Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM I rooted for Padres emergency closer Jesse Orosco to retire transient Mets second baseman Roberto Alomar with the game literally on the line in 2003 because Orosco deserved one more save at Shea and Alomar had earned my disgust for more than a year. It being 2003, I somehow knew, even though it was early in the season, it wasn't going to be the one game that cost us a playoff spot. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM ="Vic Sage":3i7189te]never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft.[/quote:3i7189te] Matt Ryan/Darren McFadden could've been ours. OURS!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

="Gwreck":1ysfshk9]This isn't basketball (or even football) where a top draft pick makes an immediate impact on your team.[/quote:1ysfshk9] Actively rooting for the team to lose is one thing. Wishing after the fact that they'd done a little poorer, especially in a salary-cap league where building through the draft is essential, is quite another. A meaningless, ugly Week 17 win in 2007 cost my Jets 3-4 draft slots-- slots in which stud QB Matt Ryan, explosive RB Darren McFadden, and promising DT Glenn Dorsey were taken (two were need areas for the Jets heading into the season). Baseball-wise, it's different, of course.

Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 11:37 AM

They ought to reverse the draft order and kill this debate once and for all. Make it winner's ball.

Vic Sage Jul 15 2009 02:29 PM

never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft.

G-Fafif Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM

I rooted for Padres emergency closer Jesse Orosco to retire transient Mets second baseman Roberto Alomar with the game literally on the line in 2003 because Orosco deserved one more save at Shea and Alomar had earned my disgust for more than a year. It being 2003, I somehow knew, even though it was early in the season, it wasn't going to be the one game that cost us a playoff spot.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 02:35 PM

="Vic Sage":3i7189te]never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft.[/quote:3i7189te] Matt Ryan/Darren McFadden could've been ours. OURS!

[Guest Edgy DC]

They ought to reverse the draft order and kill this debate once and for all. Make it winner's ball.

[Vic Sage]

never in baseball.

but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft.

[G-Fafif]

I rooted for Padres emergency closer Jesse Orosco to retire transient Mets second baseman Roberto Alomar with the game literally on the line in 2003 because Orosco deserved one more save at Shea and Alomar had earned my disgust for more than a year. It being 2003, I somehow knew, even though it was early in the season, it wasn't going to be the one game that cost us a playoff spot.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

="Vic Sage":3i7189te]never in baseball. but i find it rather easy to root against the Jets and Knicks, as they play out yet another meaningless season, on the off chance they can get lucky in the draft.[/quote:3i7189te] Matt Ryan/Darren McFadden could've been ours. OURS!