Fartinez

[smg58]

="TheOldMole":2f9ucc2m]Another thought is they trade Church, whom Jerry doesn't love. But Sheff is going to need some significant rest as the season goes on, and I don't think they have too many outfielders.[/quote:2f9ucc2m] We don't have too many healthy ones, that's for sure. I don't think Martinez is clearly outplaying Church enough that he wouldn't go down if the outfield gets crowded again, but that's fine. I think I'd ultimately like to trade Church, but he has to be healthy and playing for that to happen.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 03 2009 09:24 AM

="Number 6":1upye901]I suppose I'm in the minority, but "Fartinez?" Really? Hope he outgrows that one.[/quote:1upye901] I like it. Of course, I invented it so as to head off people calling him "F-Mart" which is worse, I think. holychicken Jun 03 2009 10:02 AM If he grows out of Fartinez, I hope it isn't into F-Mart. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 03 2009 10:11 AM ="holychicken":1tgmvaff]If he grows out of Fartinez, I hope it isn't into F-Mart.[/quote:1tgmvaff] Am a fan of "F-Bomb," except, you know, he'll need to, like, hit and stuff. Failing that, I like "Drums." (Perhaps there's just something in the air this night...) Benjamin Grimm Jun 03 2009 11:01 AM I also like "F-Bomb." Or we can combine the two, and call him Fart-Bomb. I'm sure that would make his mother proud. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 09:18 AM Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid? metirish Jun 30 2009 09:23 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3pgjrab7]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:3pgjrab7] I like him , have been surprised with his glove in CF......Keith keeps talking about how Martinez has this huge stride.....over and over.....would he relay that to Hojo.....can Keith work with him or is that a no no? I like Martinez and I think if he starts hitting a bit he'll do fine. smg58 Jun 30 2009 09:28 AM I think he's got a bright future, but I'm not sure he's presently better than Jeremy Reed. A little more seasoning might do him good. Fman99 Jun 30 2009 12:27 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":32kqq1dp]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:32kqq1dp] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 12:43 PM ="Fman99":wzscw6l1] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":wzscw6l1]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:wzscw6l1] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one.[/quote:wzscw6l1] Plate discipline's been an issue... as it kinda has throughout the minors (walk rate of 5.7%, swinging at pitches outside the zone to a 27.4% clip... which aren't too far out of line with the minor-league numbers). The guys who find their sea legs quickest tend to be those guys with good eyes-- power comes as they get used to ML pitching. I still have hopes for the kid... but any good feelings I have about him are mostly hope-derived. MFS62 Jun 30 2009 01:18 PM IIRC, he has started slowly at every level, then made the necessary adjustments and finished well. I hope he can continue to do that at the major league level. And I think he will. To quote Bob Murphy, "The cream always rises to the top". Later metirish Jun 30 2009 01:20 PM Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":1e8t12zp]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:1e8t12zp] Me? Whenever possible, I'm peeping the Mets-system guys, plus others friends of other teams point out. With guys like FM-- prized next-big-thing-types-- I'm hunting game footage online, clocking stuff like Fangraphs and Baseball Cube like they were shoplifters and I the bodega owner, and reading articles/articles about articles/articles about the validity of the article-based-articles about the kid. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:03 PM Good for you guys that do that, obviously i don't because I didn't even know that my adoptee had left the org. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:15 PM I used to follow the minor leaguers fairly closely back when The Sporting News was The Sporting News. Not so much since then. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 02:45 PM If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:47 PM I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" indeed John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 02:51 PM ="Ceetar":eczhjo1j]If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.[/quote:eczhjo1j] That's sort of where I am. I have to admit, I was like that with Carlos Gomez too. This fella looks a wee bit too hacky to me, but he hits it nice and hard. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:52 PM I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:59 PM ="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point. He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level. His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back. But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:01 PM Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 03:37 PM ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:53 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:54 PM a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:59 PM ="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn! MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM ="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

="Number 6":1upye901]I suppose I'm in the minority, but "Fartinez?" Really? Hope he outgrows that one.[/quote:1upye901] I like it. Of course, I invented it so as to head off people calling him "F-Mart" which is worse, I think.

holychicken Jun 03 2009 10:02 AM

If he grows out of Fartinez, I hope it isn't into F-Mart.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 03 2009 10:11 AM

="holychicken":1tgmvaff]If he grows out of Fartinez, I hope it isn't into F-Mart.[/quote:1tgmvaff] Am a fan of "F-Bomb," except, you know, he'll need to, like, hit and stuff. Failing that, I like "Drums." (Perhaps there's just something in the air this night...) Benjamin Grimm Jun 03 2009 11:01 AM I also like "F-Bomb." Or we can combine the two, and call him Fart-Bomb. I'm sure that would make his mother proud. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 09:18 AM Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid? metirish Jun 30 2009 09:23 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3pgjrab7]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:3pgjrab7] I like him , have been surprised with his glove in CF......Keith keeps talking about how Martinez has this huge stride.....over and over.....would he relay that to Hojo.....can Keith work with him or is that a no no? I like Martinez and I think if he starts hitting a bit he'll do fine. smg58 Jun 30 2009 09:28 AM I think he's got a bright future, but I'm not sure he's presently better than Jeremy Reed. A little more seasoning might do him good. Fman99 Jun 30 2009 12:27 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":32kqq1dp]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:32kqq1dp] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 12:43 PM ="Fman99":wzscw6l1] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":wzscw6l1]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:wzscw6l1] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one.[/quote:wzscw6l1] Plate discipline's been an issue... as it kinda has throughout the minors (walk rate of 5.7%, swinging at pitches outside the zone to a 27.4% clip... which aren't too far out of line with the minor-league numbers). The guys who find their sea legs quickest tend to be those guys with good eyes-- power comes as they get used to ML pitching. I still have hopes for the kid... but any good feelings I have about him are mostly hope-derived. MFS62 Jun 30 2009 01:18 PM IIRC, he has started slowly at every level, then made the necessary adjustments and finished well. I hope he can continue to do that at the major league level. And I think he will. To quote Bob Murphy, "The cream always rises to the top". Later metirish Jun 30 2009 01:20 PM Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":1e8t12zp]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:1e8t12zp] Me? Whenever possible, I'm peeping the Mets-system guys, plus others friends of other teams point out. With guys like FM-- prized next-big-thing-types-- I'm hunting game footage online, clocking stuff like Fangraphs and Baseball Cube like they were shoplifters and I the bodega owner, and reading articles/articles about articles/articles about the validity of the article-based-articles about the kid. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:03 PM Good for you guys that do that, obviously i don't because I didn't even know that my adoptee had left the org. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:15 PM I used to follow the minor leaguers fairly closely back when The Sporting News was The Sporting News. Not so much since then. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 02:45 PM If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:47 PM I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" indeed John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 02:51 PM ="Ceetar":eczhjo1j]If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.[/quote:eczhjo1j] That's sort of where I am. I have to admit, I was like that with Carlos Gomez too. This fella looks a wee bit too hacky to me, but he hits it nice and hard. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:52 PM I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:59 PM ="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point. He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level. His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back. But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:01 PM Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 03:37 PM ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:53 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:54 PM a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:59 PM ="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn! MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM ="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[Guest holychicken]

If he grows out of Fartinez, I hope it isn't into F-Mart.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

="holychicken":1tgmvaff]If he grows out of Fartinez, I hope it isn't into F-Mart.[/quote:1tgmvaff] Am a fan of "F-Bomb," except, you know, he'll need to, like, hit and stuff. Failing that, I like "Drums." (Perhaps there's just something in the air this night...)

Benjamin Grimm Jun 03 2009 11:01 AM

I also like "F-Bomb." Or we can combine the two, and call him Fart-Bomb. I'm sure that would make his mother proud.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 09:18 AM

Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?

metirish Jun 30 2009 09:23 AM

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3pgjrab7]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:3pgjrab7] I like him , have been surprised with his glove in CF......Keith keeps talking about how Martinez has this huge stride.....over and over.....would he relay that to Hojo.....can Keith work with him or is that a no no? I like Martinez and I think if he starts hitting a bit he'll do fine. smg58 Jun 30 2009 09:28 AM I think he's got a bright future, but I'm not sure he's presently better than Jeremy Reed. A little more seasoning might do him good. Fman99 Jun 30 2009 12:27 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":32kqq1dp]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:32kqq1dp] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 12:43 PM ="Fman99":wzscw6l1] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":wzscw6l1]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:wzscw6l1] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one.[/quote:wzscw6l1] Plate discipline's been an issue... as it kinda has throughout the minors (walk rate of 5.7%, swinging at pitches outside the zone to a 27.4% clip... which aren't too far out of line with the minor-league numbers). The guys who find their sea legs quickest tend to be those guys with good eyes-- power comes as they get used to ML pitching. I still have hopes for the kid... but any good feelings I have about him are mostly hope-derived. MFS62 Jun 30 2009 01:18 PM IIRC, he has started slowly at every level, then made the necessary adjustments and finished well. I hope he can continue to do that at the major league level. And I think he will. To quote Bob Murphy, "The cream always rises to the top". Later metirish Jun 30 2009 01:20 PM Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":1e8t12zp]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:1e8t12zp] Me? Whenever possible, I'm peeping the Mets-system guys, plus others friends of other teams point out. With guys like FM-- prized next-big-thing-types-- I'm hunting game footage online, clocking stuff like Fangraphs and Baseball Cube like they were shoplifters and I the bodega owner, and reading articles/articles about articles/articles about the validity of the article-based-articles about the kid. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:03 PM Good for you guys that do that, obviously i don't because I didn't even know that my adoptee had left the org. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:15 PM I used to follow the minor leaguers fairly closely back when The Sporting News was The Sporting News. Not so much since then. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 02:45 PM If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:47 PM I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" indeed John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 02:51 PM ="Ceetar":eczhjo1j]If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.[/quote:eczhjo1j] That's sort of where I am. I have to admit, I was like that with Carlos Gomez too. This fella looks a wee bit too hacky to me, but he hits it nice and hard. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:52 PM I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:59 PM ="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point. He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level. His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back. But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:01 PM Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 03:37 PM ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:53 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:54 PM a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:59 PM ="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn! MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM ="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[Benjamin Grimm]

I also like "F-Bomb."

Or we can combine the two, and call him Fart-Bomb. I'm sure that would make his mother proud.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally.

What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?

[metirish]

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3pgjrab7]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:3pgjrab7] I like him , have been surprised with his glove in CF......Keith keeps talking about how Martinez has this huge stride.....over and over.....would he relay that to Hojo.....can Keith work with him or is that a no no? I like Martinez and I think if he starts hitting a bit he'll do fine.

smg58 Jun 30 2009 09:28 AM

I think he's got a bright future, but I'm not sure he's presently better than Jeremy Reed. A little more seasoning might do him good.

Fman99 Jun 30 2009 12:27 PM

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":32kqq1dp]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:32kqq1dp] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 12:43 PM ="Fman99":wzscw6l1] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":wzscw6l1]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:wzscw6l1] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one.[/quote:wzscw6l1] Plate discipline's been an issue... as it kinda has throughout the minors (walk rate of 5.7%, swinging at pitches outside the zone to a 27.4% clip... which aren't too far out of line with the minor-league numbers). The guys who find their sea legs quickest tend to be those guys with good eyes-- power comes as they get used to ML pitching. I still have hopes for the kid... but any good feelings I have about him are mostly hope-derived. MFS62 Jun 30 2009 01:18 PM IIRC, he has started slowly at every level, then made the necessary adjustments and finished well. I hope he can continue to do that at the major league level. And I think he will. To quote Bob Murphy, "The cream always rises to the top". Later metirish Jun 30 2009 01:20 PM Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":1e8t12zp]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:1e8t12zp] Me? Whenever possible, I'm peeping the Mets-system guys, plus others friends of other teams point out. With guys like FM-- prized next-big-thing-types-- I'm hunting game footage online, clocking stuff like Fangraphs and Baseball Cube like they were shoplifters and I the bodega owner, and reading articles/articles about articles/articles about the validity of the article-based-articles about the kid. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:03 PM Good for you guys that do that, obviously i don't because I didn't even know that my adoptee had left the org. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:15 PM I used to follow the minor leaguers fairly closely back when The Sporting News was The Sporting News. Not so much since then. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 02:45 PM If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:47 PM I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" indeed John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 02:51 PM ="Ceetar":eczhjo1j]If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.[/quote:eczhjo1j] That's sort of where I am. I have to admit, I was like that with Carlos Gomez too. This fella looks a wee bit too hacky to me, but he hits it nice and hard. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:52 PM I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:59 PM ="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point. He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level. His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back. But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:01 PM Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 03:37 PM ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:53 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:54 PM a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:59 PM ="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn! MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM ="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[smg58]

I think he's got a bright future, but I'm not sure he's presently better than Jeremy Reed. A little more seasoning might do him good.

[Fman99]

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":32kqq1dp]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:32kqq1dp] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 12:43 PM

="Fman99":wzscw6l1] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":wzscw6l1]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:wzscw6l1] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one.[/quote:wzscw6l1] Plate discipline's been an issue... as it kinda has throughout the minors (walk rate of 5.7%, swinging at pitches outside the zone to a 27.4% clip... which aren't too far out of line with the minor-league numbers). The guys who find their sea legs quickest tend to be those guys with good eyes-- power comes as they get used to ML pitching. I still have hopes for the kid... but any good feelings I have about him are mostly hope-derived. MFS62 Jun 30 2009 01:18 PM IIRC, he has started slowly at every level, then made the necessary adjustments and finished well. I hope he can continue to do that at the major league level. And I think he will. To quote Bob Murphy, "The cream always rises to the top". Later metirish Jun 30 2009 01:20 PM Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":1e8t12zp]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:1e8t12zp] Me? Whenever possible, I'm peeping the Mets-system guys, plus others friends of other teams point out. With guys like FM-- prized next-big-thing-types-- I'm hunting game footage online, clocking stuff like Fangraphs and Baseball Cube like they were shoplifters and I the bodega owner, and reading articles/articles about articles/articles about the validity of the article-based-articles about the kid. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:03 PM Good for you guys that do that, obviously i don't because I didn't even know that my adoptee had left the org. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:15 PM I used to follow the minor leaguers fairly closely back when The Sporting News was The Sporting News. Not so much since then. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 02:45 PM If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:47 PM I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" indeed John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 02:51 PM ="Ceetar":eczhjo1j]If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.[/quote:eczhjo1j] That's sort of where I am. I have to admit, I was like that with Carlos Gomez too. This fella looks a wee bit too hacky to me, but he hits it nice and hard. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:52 PM I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:59 PM ="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point. He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level. His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back. But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:01 PM Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 03:37 PM ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:53 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:54 PM a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:59 PM ="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn! MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM ="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

="Fman99":wzscw6l1] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":wzscw6l1]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:wzscw6l1] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one.[/quote:wzscw6l1] Plate discipline's been an issue... as it kinda has throughout the minors (walk rate of 5.7%, swinging at pitches outside the zone to a 27.4% clip... which aren't too far out of line with the minor-league numbers). The guys who find their sea legs quickest tend to be those guys with good eyes-- power comes as they get used to ML pitching. I still have hopes for the kid... but any good feelings I have about him are mostly hope-derived. MFS62 Jun 30 2009 01:18 PM IIRC, he has started slowly at every level, then made the necessary adjustments and finished well. I hope he can continue to do that at the major league level. And I think he will. To quote Bob Murphy, "The cream always rises to the top". Later metirish Jun 30 2009 01:20 PM Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":1e8t12zp]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:1e8t12zp] Me? Whenever possible, I'm peeping the Mets-system guys, plus others friends of other teams point out. With guys like FM-- prized next-big-thing-types-- I'm hunting game footage online, clocking stuff like Fangraphs and Baseball Cube like they were shoplifters and I the bodega owner, and reading articles/articles about articles/articles about the validity of the article-based-articles about the kid. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:03 PM Good for you guys that do that, obviously i don't because I didn't even know that my adoptee had left the org. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:15 PM I used to follow the minor leaguers fairly closely back when The Sporting News was The Sporting News. Not so much since then. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 02:45 PM If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:47 PM I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" indeed John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 02:51 PM ="Ceetar":eczhjo1j]If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.[/quote:eczhjo1j] That's sort of where I am. I have to admit, I was like that with Carlos Gomez too. This fella looks a wee bit too hacky to me, but he hits it nice and hard. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:52 PM I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:59 PM ="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point. He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level. His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back. But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:01 PM Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 03:37 PM ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:53 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:54 PM a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:59 PM ="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn! MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM ="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[MFS62]

IIRC, he has started slowly at every level, then made the necessary adjustments and finished well. I hope he can continue to do that at the major league level. And I think he will.

To quote Bob Murphy, "The cream always rises to the top".

Later

[metirish]

Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

="metirish":1e8t12zp]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:1e8t12zp] Me? Whenever possible, I'm peeping the Mets-system guys, plus others friends of other teams point out. With guys like FM-- prized next-big-thing-types-- I'm hunting game footage online, clocking stuff like Fangraphs and Baseball Cube like they were shoplifters and I the bodega owner, and reading articles/articles about articles/articles about the validity of the article-based-articles about the kid.

metirish Jun 30 2009 02:03 PM

Good for you guys that do that, obviously i don't because I didn't even know that my adoptee had left the org.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:15 PM

I used to follow the minor leaguers fairly closely back when The Sporting News was The Sporting News. Not so much since then.

Ceetar Jun 30 2009 02:45 PM

If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.

metirish Jun 30 2009 02:47 PM

I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" indeed

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 02:51 PM

="Ceetar":eczhjo1j]If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.[/quote:eczhjo1j] That's sort of where I am. I have to admit, I was like that with Carlos Gomez too. This fella looks a wee bit too hacky to me, but he hits it nice and hard. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:52 PM I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:59 PM ="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point. He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level. His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back. But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:01 PM Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 03:37 PM ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:53 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:54 PM a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:59 PM ="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn! MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM ="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[metirish]

Good for you guys that do that, obviously i don't because I didn't even know that my adoptee had left the org.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I used to follow the minor leaguers fairly closely back when The Sporting News was The Sporting News.

Not so much since then.

[Ceetar]

If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.

[metirish]

I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?"


indeed

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

="Ceetar":eczhjo1j]If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.[/quote:eczhjo1j] That's sort of where I am. I have to admit, I was like that with Carlos Gomez too. This fella looks a wee bit too hacky to me, but he hits it nice and hard.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:52 PM

I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar.

Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:59 PM

="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point. He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level. His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back. But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out.

Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:01 PM

Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of.

Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:31 PM

="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 03:37 PM

="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right?

Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:53 PM

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year.

Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:54 PM

a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.

Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:59 PM

="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn! MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM ="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday.

I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar.

[Frayed Knot]

="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?"

He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point.

He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level.
His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back.

But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out.

[nymr83]

Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of.

[Ceetar]

="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar.

His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys.

Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF.

And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right?

[Ceetar]

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ="Ceetar"] ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right?

Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year.

[nymr83]

a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.

[Ceetar]

="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today?

Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM

i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn!

MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM

="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[nymr83]

i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn!

[MFS62]

="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later

Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM

Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills

Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM

I'll disagree. Completely.

Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM

I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level.

Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM

="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a] ="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu] ="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs] ="Ashie62":30q2invs] ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

[ashie62]

Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally.

In other words he has few skills

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'll disagree. Completely.