Willie on Willie; Adam on Willie

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Today's Snooze is jampacked with more Willie stuff including an as-told-to bylined cover story where Willie reveals he was blindsided and stays away from saying anything outrageous but remembers to mention his contract prevents him from doing so.

Far better is Adam Rubin's "analysis" peice in which he exposes Willie as churlish, stubborn and paranoid; and, more interestingly, that Bernazard could be Omar's successor. After reading this, sounds like the whole Bernazard is a bad guy image was propogated by Randolph through his buddies in the press. Rubin says the Wilpons like Bernazard, who espouses homegrowing the system and who argued against including Guerra in the Santana trade. All very interesting.

Willie:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/06/20/2008-06-20_willie_randolph_opens_up_after_his_recen-3.html

Adam:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/06/19/2008-06-19_with_omar_minaya_on_the_hot_seat_now_ton.html

[metirish]

I read the opening paragraph then scanned the rest of Randolph's piece , how could he have never seen it coming yet he says he was hoping to make it too the All Star break or even the yankee series.


I'm sick of hearing how Willie is all class here on this , no he's not.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I wonder: Could the Mets have gotten Santana without including Guerra? (They would surely have had to have replaced him in the package with someone else.) Or would Bernazard have let the deal collapse over Delois Guerra?

Interesting stuff.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Randolph was an inept manager. And that should be the main focus here. There's also a sidebar link on Rubin's page declaring Derek Jeter to be baseball's most overrated player, according to a player's poll.

[Guest AG/DC]

]I cleaned out my office at Shea Stadium Thursday afternoon. My name was already off the door. I packed up all my keepsakes and photos of Jackie Robinson and Josh Gibson and other Negro League stars, boxed them up, and then my son, Andre, and I hauled it all into my car.

He boxed up his son?

[bmfc1]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I wonder: Could the Mets have gotten Santana without including Guerra? (They would surely have had to have replaced him in the package with someone else.) Or would Bernazard have let the deal collapse over Delois Guerra? Interesting stuff.

The way I understood it was that the Mets told the Twins that they would include Guerra to get Santana. When the Twins said that they were ready to deal, Omar knew that the Twins had no alternatives so he could have pulled back Guerra from the deal. However, he didn't think that was the right thing to do so he kept his word.

[metirish]

I never heard that take on the deal , if that is the case Minaya should be fired.

[Guest AG/DC]

I don't know Bernezard from Adam, but I think he's fair in assessing Willie and his insecurities, and I kind of wish that his newfound looseness hadn't been too little, too late.

[Fman99]

Wow. The Mets front office could fuck up a wet dream.

[soupcan]

bmfc1 wrote: The way I understood it was that the Mets told the Twins that they would include Guerra to get Santana. When the Twins said that they were ready to deal, Omar knew that the Twins had no alternatives so he could have pulled back Guerra from the deal. However, he didn't think that was the right thing to do so he kept his word.

="metirish"]I never heard that take on the deal , if that is the case Minaya should be fired.

He should be fired because he chose to be ethical rather than ruthless?

Tough room, irish, tough room.

[Frayed Knot]

Good for Adam for at least painting Bernazrd with some living breathing traits (good, bad, or somewhere in between) rather than just starting with the "fact" that he's pure evil and therefore is responisble for everything short of gas prices and the inability to find Bin Laden.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, really. I wouldn't fire a guy for being ethical.

[Vic Sage]

GMs have to deal with each other on a regular basis. You pull a move like that, you get a bad rep and its harder to do business. So it would not only have been unethical, it would've been short-sighted and self-defeating.

[Guest AG/DC]

Why am I supposed to mad about the Santana deal now?

I think I should just decide to stay mad and then find factlets along the way to justify it.

The Mets don't get superstars the Mets don't grow players the Mets should sandbag their manager the Mets suck for sandbagging their manager play the kids not the sucky kids the Mets are trying to be like the Yankees the Mets should try to be like the Yankees Heilman sucks Heilman should be a start Heilman sucks because he doesn't ge to start

Wah, fucking wah.

[metirish]

Vic Sage wrote: GMs have to deal with each other on a regular basis. You pull a move like that, you get a bad rep and its harder to do business. So it would not only have been unethical, it would've been short-sighted and self-defeating.

I didn't think about it like that , makes sense and one reason why I will never be Emir of the Mets.

[Guest AG/DC]

Help me out. Why would the Twins have "no alternative"? Bill Smith can't call another team and say, "The fucking Mets are dicking me around. Do you want to put your package back on the table?"

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Not for nothing but isn't the idea that the Mets have no farm system under Omar slightly overblown, at least in terms of the Mets historically?

Seems like the Mets over the last decade have been in a constant state of having a rather shallow farm system. I'm not gonna argue what we have is great but whether what we have differs all that much than what we have had for years now.

Has there been a time, for example, when they've had 3 AA hitters having such good years like Murphy, Evana and Carp?

Niese looks like he might be able to help at some point, Kunz could help the pen at some point and F-Martinez, while a few years away, is considered a potential star. Along with the replenishments coming via the draft and international, I can't image it sucks that much.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think the only problem with the farm is for short-term needs. When the Mets had a few guys on the DL, there were few players ready to step in and play in the majors.

Having to promote guys like Nick Evans made the system look worse than it is.

[Guest AG/DC]

Having no faith whatsoever in guys with the AAAA hitter label also makes the system look worse than it is.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Tatis is getting pretty good shot.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yes, Tatis has been a success. And so have Raul Casanova and Carlos Muniz.

It's just that the farm system wasn't deep enough to replace Pagan AND Alou AND Church all at the same time. I would bet that most farm systems wouldn't be, but the Mets had that weakness exposed.

The other rap against the farm system has been that there's not much trading fodder left. That was probably true on February 2, when the Mets made the Santana deal, especially since Fernando Martinez was deemed virtually untouchable.

But that kind of thing can take care of itself in time. Now the Mets have a bunch of young guys who are establishing themselves as prospects, and thereby increasing their trade value. I would suspect that if the Mets wanted to trade youth for an established player this winter, they'd be able to put something together again.

[Guest AG/DC]

Yeah, well, I'm going to convolute my position to the point of meaninglessness by pointing out that he (1) waited a year and a half, (2) was an old Montreal guy originally signed by the Rangers (Omar's DNA all over the crime scene), so I'm thinking his sneaking through the gate doesn't water down my feeling all that much. I'd like to have seen a couple of the other hot batsmen in New Orleans get a shot also.

I agree with you that the scarcity of the system is overblown. We too often judge these things on a black-white basis of "stacked" or "barren." It's a pretty complex continuum.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah. Then again, I was going to try to make an argument for Aguila over Trot, and I really couldn't.

[Frayed Knot]

Farm systems also tend to be somewhat cyclical.

Not that we had a top system to begin with - but when you mix the promotion and/or trades of the likes of Milledge, Pelfrey, Gomez, Humber, Mulvey, and Guerra within about a 12-month period along with a lack of top draft picks due to top-half finishes and the signings of Alou, Wagner & Beltran, the system tends to take a hit.

[soupcan]

But isn't the goal of a good farm system also the ability to produce good players to trade to acquire good players? And isn't that what the Mets were able to do in the Santana deal?

Seems like critics are wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

[Guest AG/DC]

Its certainly A goal. I agree about the cake.

[Guest holychicken]

I hear there is cake in this thread.

Can I have some please? AND eat it?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Nice story by Rubin, probably the best piece I've seen about the whole thing.

As for the farm system, it was deep enough to allow them to trade five players for the best pitcher in the game and still hold on to the top prospect.

I don't think any team is able to pull up a major-league ready prospect after every injury, especially after a rash of injuries. That's why they keep the AAAA guys around.

Just be glad we still don't have Jose Offerman and Ice Williams!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

By the way, can anyone find the thread where the CPF reacted to Willie's Hiring? It would be in Nov. 04 -- prior to the meltdown.

I visted the old EZboard place but it's a wreck -- they are finally replacing the EZB with a new software and name and look.

[G-Fafif]

The real victim in the Willie story in the News is Wayne Coffey, its author and the as-told-to writer on the planned autobiography of the former Mets manager. Think maybe the market for that has sagged?