Good Night Sign Man

[Frayed Knot]

Newsday:
Ehrhardt destroyed all but a handful of his [as many as 1,200] signs after a falling out with Mets management when Doubleday and Wilpon purchased the team in 1981. The Mets brought him and his placards back in 2002 for the team's 40th anniversary ...
In his later years, Ehrhardt still followed the Mets but mostly to root against them because he was still bitter [his daughter] said.

[Guest AG/DC]

Damn. How do you fuck that up?

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

"In his later years, Ehrhardt still followed the Mets but mostly to root against them because he was still bitter [his daughter] said."

Kind of explains why Mets.com and SNY failed to acknowledge his passing.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't think that's true either. The fact of the matter is they prolly aren't paying for top-shelf journalistic talent on the weekdays, much less on weekends, gambling that we won't notice and secure in the knowledge that even if we do, they're still the only channel in town to see a Met game.

On a more general matter, I mean, really. It's a guy and a baseball team. Let's not pretend whatever misunderstandings they had with one another were so hot, and the people involved so small, that they'd carry on beyond the grave by directing their news staffs to stick it to him personally by... refusing to inform people he's dead? Ehrhardt is the one person who needn't be informed he's dead at the present time.

I also should say that although it's admirable and nice that people are able to find out stuff on fan sites better and in cases like this, before some alleged mainstream outlets, fafif himself would tell you he's not "breaking" anything, just passing it along.

[Zvon]

Only heard about this just today.

This guy was as much part of my childhood Met memories as anyone that took the field for the team.

I salute you Karl.
Thanks for the memories.

_____________________________

"He was part of the happening that Shea became," said Bob Mandt, former Mets VP.

[stevejrogers]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I don't think that's true either. The fact of the matter is they prolly aren't paying for top-shelf journalistic talent on the weekdays, much less on weekends, gambling that we won't notice and secure in the knowledge that even if we do, they're still the only channel in town to see a Met game. On a more general matter, I mean, really. It's a guy and a baseball team. Let's not pretend whatever misunderstandings they had with one another were so hot, and the people involved so small, that they'd carry on beyond the grave by directing their news staffs to stick it to him personally by... refusing to inform people he's dead? Ehrhardt is the one person who needn't be informed he's dead at the present time. I also should say that although it's admirable and nice that people are able to find out stuff on fan sites better and in cases like this, before some alleged mainstream outlets, fafif himself would tell you he's not "breaking" anything, just passing it along.

I kind of agree with 'bucket here.

For starters, it did seem Ehrhardt had an over-exaggerated view of himself which probably had more to do with the falling out than simply being priced out of the market.

I'm sure Weissman52 wouldn't simply dump the Mets if his old seats went up in value (not the reason he stopped going though).

But more to the point, yes he was a Super Fan, and yes he was an integral part of the Shea experience during the 60s and 70s, but is it the weekend staff at the dotcom and SNY to realize that this is something that an official statement should be made right away of?

Did Doris from Rego Park get a dotcom or Fox NY's Inside Pitch sendoff (she passed sometime in the early 2000s)? No, despite the fact that she was a WFAN and Shea Stadium fixture for many years and I'm sure no Mets Extra, or Steve Somers/Jody McDonald overnight show after the game would have been complete without her thoughts on the game. But in the end, she had her own small corner of Met-fandom, the way Ehrhardt had his, and its better off that both are remembered more so by the fandom than by the team itself.

I hope that makes sense in terms of trying to explain why SNY and Mets.com weren't rushing to tribute Ehrhardt yesterday the way they would if it was a longtime visible employee.

For example; Kiner, Pete Flynn or Bob Mandt, all whom I'd presume would get some degree of treatment upon the exact announcement of their passings, no doubt the templates for their obits have been made already.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm not letting those 2 outlets off the hook here for their failure to recognize the story -- they screwed up big time. I'm saying they get what they pay for in terms of being viewed with any credibility.

[G-Fafif]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I also should say that although it's admirable and nice that people are able to find out stuff on fan sites better and in cases like this, before some alleged mainstream outlets, fafif himself would tell you he's not "breaking" anything, just passing it along.

My "breaking" the story consisted of finding a link to the Times obituary on MetsBlog. It helps to cook with ready-made ingredients sometimes.

By late Saturday night, AP, ESPN.com and Channel 4 had all seen fit to note the passing of Mr. Ehrhardt. On Sunday, the story had gotten play in the News and Newsday. Those are five outfits right there (six, with the Times) whose scope of coverage is far wider than Mets baseball, which is SNY's trademark. It's in light of those outlets viewing the passing of the Mets' Sign Man as noteworthy that I find it disappointing -- in terms of diligence and mission -- that SNY's own news show, which the network positions as a New York sportscast of record, skipped it Saturday and Sunday. (If Mets Hot Stove, which airs Monday evening at 6:30, mentions it, then my disappointment is lessened.)

[Guest AG/DC]

I imagine many of the established outfits have a database of obituaries in the can for a lot of figures, and just have to hit the "publish" button if Richard Todd kicks the bucket during Daytona weekend.

That's not an excuse for SNY or anything.

[Guest themetfairy]

AG/DC wrote: I imagine many of the established outfits have a database of obituaries in the can for a lot of figures, and just have to hit the "publish" button if Richard Todd kicks the bucket during Daytona weekend.

That's definitely the case. I remember touring the New York Times when I was in high school, back in the days when newspapers were published off of plates that were set up manually, and they had draws full of ready-to-go obituaries for famous figures. It was an impressive sight.

[Guest AG/DC]

Impressive, if sobering.

And I guess if SNY had one in the hopper for Ehrhardt, they'd probably run it a dozen times over the weekend with no sense that the airstaff had any idea who this guy was that they kept pushing the button for, and it would be just as depressing.

We're relics. And that programming just isn't for us.

We get the bones, but the feast is for the kids.

[Guest KC]

Doris from Rego Park?

[Guest AG/DC]

I know, right?

[stevejrogers]

KC wrote: Doris from Rego Park?

What makes Doris different from Sign Man from Weissman52 from Bryan Hoch from TACKA (The Artist Currently Known As) Johnny Cougar LunchBucket from Cow-Bell Man?

Out of curiosity, would you expect or want YES to run something once that Freddy Sez guy passes?

[Guest KC]

I have no idea who Freddie Sez is, I'm not a closet Yankee fan and certainly
watch YES as little as is humanly possible.

As for your first question, don't be so modest Steve that you leave yourself off
that list of Celebrity Mets fans.

Sheesh.

[soupcan]

SteveJRogers wrote: ="KC"]Doris from Rego Park? What makes Doris different from Sign Man from Weissman52 from Bryan Hoch from TACKA (The Artist Currently Known As) Johnny Cougar LunchBucket from Cow-Bell Man?

SteveJBlindersOn,

You really see no difference between Erhardt all those other peeps?

[Guest AG/DC]

Everything makes them different, Steve. Everything.

[stevejrogers]

KC wrote: I have no idea who Freddie Sez is, I'm not a closet Yankee fan and certainly watch YES as little as is humanly possible. As for your first question, don't be so modest Steve that you leave yourself off that list of Celebrity Mets fans. Sheesh.

Freddie Sez is an old Yankee fan who for years carries a sign with a frying pan thing and walks around Yankee Stadium, as well as Fordham basketball and sometimes the St Pats parade. Essentailly he is the Yankees version of Sign Man.

Okay, would you expect the Orioles to offer a fitting tribute the moment that Wild Bill character from the late 70s-early 80s passes (if he hasn't already)

Watch that sarcasm Kase, I almost threw you on that list but since KCMets.com hasn't been active in quite some time...

[Guest KC]

My only point is that Karl's character recognizability to that of Doris' is pro-
bably 1000 to 1 among people say forty and over.

I wouldn't know Doris if she hit me over the head with her Tropicana Mets
shopping bag give-away.

Is Weissman even alive? I know Bryan was covering the Yanks at some point.

[stevejrogers]

FYI, Freddy has a website

I've seen Weissman on AOL IM every now and then.

[nymr83]

]My only point is that Karl's character recognizability to that of Doris' is pro- bably 1000 to 1 among people say forty and over.

the reverse ratio might be true for those under 40. anyone who listens to steve sommers knows who Doris was, i had seen pictures of Erhardt holding up that sign before i think, but i couln't have named him before being told he had died.

but you're losing [what i think is] steve's point. its easy to honor someone who worked for the organization, but how do you draw the line between "celebrity fans" who have no affiliation?

[Guest KC]

Well I kinda buried myself by placing an age on it so I'll be nice and not
argue with SteveJSez over it.

I used to change the channel when Doris came on.

(only kidding)

[nymr83]

yes his yankee-fan-ness really came out there, but theres a thread about that in the RLF (untouched since october, are we being too nice lately?)

[Guest AG/DC]

This seems stupid to have to say, but Doris was in no way, shape, or form part of the show at Shea in the way that Ehrhardt was.

The day the Mets mark a championship in part by printing, in their yearbook the next season, a montage of the most outstanding defensive plays from the World Series, around a centerpiece of a picture of John Cougar Lunchbucket, I'll review that position.

[Guest KC]

Ny83: >>>are we being too nice lately?<<<

They upped my meds.

[stevejrogers]

AG/DC wrote: This seems stupid to have to say, but Doris was in no way, shape, or form part of the show at Shea in the way that Ehrhardt was. The day the Mets mark a championship in part by printing, in their yearbook the next season, a montage of the most outstanding defensive plays from the World Series, around a centerpiece of a picture of John Cougar Lunchbucket, I'll review that position.

Fine I get it, there are no shots in the 2000 or 2001 Yearbooks or whatever of Weissman52's Playoff goatee, so despite essentially being the first Mets blogger, which is pretty much what his MetsOnline journal was, a precursor to what is known today as a weblog.

Though honestly, lets just say a shot of Jonathan, with #52 being worn proudly and his goatee painted in blue and orange, did get into some montage, that would pretty much be on the same level as the countless of anonymous patrons whom have gotten their faces into Met yearbooks, programs, or any number of promotional items. Oh sure it would have gone up on the MOFO and would have gotten quite a good thread about it, depending on the crankiness of certain other posters or the Photoshopping skils of other posters, but in the grand scheme of things, its just another shot of Met patrons.

The Mets aren't going to celebrate Bryan Hoch because he operated what probably was the first mega Met site on the internet, even before Mets.com even came into being.

Despite the fact that Matt Cerrone, GaFaF and others appear on various SNY programs and such so don't just dissmiss the Internet Mets Community, and clearly I'll concede the Doris example as well since despite her 15 minutes (probably more due to her health problems more so than her frequent calls to New York sports radio stations) yeah she was just a voice mixed in with the countless number of callers to WFAN or 1050 ESPN or whatnot through the years.

And of course Cow-Bell-Man is just an annoying, self aggrandizing Sign Man wannabe.

But on the flip side, and yeah I'm going after your anti-sports radio, elitism here, she is remembered, fondly or otherwise, by those who did (and still do) listen to WFAN, that post on radio message boards, and such.

No she really wasn't part of the Shea experience, I saw her once, but that was only after Jonathan Weissman stated the fact that he sat literally behind her one time in his journal, so her fame only comes from listening to Steve Somers/Joe Beningo/Jody McDonald after Met games, as she struggled through getting her points across through her coughing and always ending her calls "thank you for your time and courtesy."

Was she the quintessential Met fan? No probably not. Did she represent what Ehrhardt represented? No not really. But if you consider listening to WFAN as part of your Met experience, then yeah she did add something to that experience by being one of the most known frequent Met fan callers.

[nymr83]

I remember reading Hoch's site religiously back before MLB shut him down. I can't speak for old(er) people but for me, and i'd suspect many, many more around my age, Hoch is a far bigger part of our met-fandom than Erhardt could ever be.

[Elster88]

KC wrote: I used to change the channel when Doris came on. (only kidding)

I wouldn't blame you if you were serious. The phlegm filled cough and the mucous-y voice were enough to unsettle the stomach. And all she did in the calls I heard was repeat exactly what the host had just said.

[stevejrogers]

="Elster88"] ="KC"]I used to change the channel when Doris came on. (only kidding) I wouldn't blame you if you were serious. The phlegm filled cough and the mucous-y voice were enough to unsettle the stomach. And all she did in the calls I heard was repeat exactly what the host had just said.

Which is probably why she kept getting on! Plus when you are doing an overnight show, you can stall much more than you can during the regular portions of the day.

[MFS62]

They just announced on the SNY hot stove program that they are going to do a tribute to the sign man at the end of the show.



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