Yanx - Sawx: Take One

[Frayed Knot]

Thought I'd create a seperate thread to follow along with the first installment of this little border war.

Sox come in with a one-game lead, have the home field for the weekend, and definitely have the on-paper pitching edge going in -- making it a good time to put some ground between them in the early going.
All of that, of course, will just make the New England cynics say are precisely the reasons why they'll get their butts kicked.

Friday: Pettitte (1-0; 1.50) v Schilling (2-1; 2.84)

Saturday: (3:55 FOX) Jeff Karstens (fresh off the DL) v Josh Beckett (3-0; 1.50 this season - although he's got a lot of making up to do for the eggs he laid in NYY games last year)

Sunday: (8:00 ESPN) Chase Wright (rookie making 2nd ML start) v Matsuzaka (1-2; 2.70 - and has pitched reasonably well in all three starts)

Sox have been pitching a lot better than they've been hitting. In particular, Crisp, Youkilis, Varitek, Pedroia, and even Manny have had slow starts.

Yanx are doing just about the opposite, usually needing to out-slug (and out-ARod) their opponents into submission in order to make up for their thin starting pitching. The pen has been needed to pitch fully half their innings so far.

Mariano has had only one save opportunity this season ... and didn't convert.
Papelbon (moved back to the closers spot) has been near perfect in 5 outings: 4/4 saves, 5-1/3 IPs, 1 H, 2 BBs, 0.00 ERA

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Smoke 'em inside, I say.

[Guest iramets]

You really should have listened to thiis, if you're truly and sincerely puzzled by WTF I'm rattling on about concerning GMs who give decent, affable, thoughtful interviews without betraying their employers.

The high point for me was when M/MD asked about the disastrous trade to get Mirabelli back last summer. Theo kinda chuckled and said something, "That WAS a terrible trade, wasn't it? I really used poor judgment there. We were kind of desperate, looking for help finding someone who could catch Wakefield's knuckleball and what can I tell you, we overpaid badly for Mirabelli." Then after a few "Jeez!" and other carping and incoherent critical remarks from Dog, he elaborated on his reasons for giving up two good young players to get a washed up no-hit catcher: "That's what happens when you make moves under pressure, without thinking about the long-range future of your team-- you make bad deals, and that one was bad from day one, and I knew it almost as soon as I made it."

Note that he took responsibility, addressed his mistake upfront, made no excuses, didn't try to mitigate what he did, and M/MD had nothing critical to say that he hadn't already said. (Note also the complete sentences, and the getting straight to the point.)

They just interviewed Torre, but I'll let that go for the time being. Suffice to say, it was the best, least hostile, most informative, most un-defensive conversation with a NY manager I've heard lately.

[Guest ABG]

iramets wrote: You really should have listened to thiis, if you're truly and sincerely puzzled by WTF I'm rattling on about concerning GMs who give decent, affable, thoughtful interviews without betraying their employers. The high point for me was when M/MD asked about the disastrous trade to get Mirabelli back last summer. Theo kinda chuckled and said something, "That WAS a terrible trade, wasn't it? I really used poor judgment there. We were kind of desperate, looking for help finding someone who could catch Wakefield's knuckleball and what can I tell you, we overpaid badly for Mirabelli." Then after a few "Jeez!" and other carping and incoherent critical remarks from Dog, he elaborated on his reasons for giving up two good young players to get a washed up no-hit catcher: "That's what happens when you make moves under pressure, without thinking about the long-range future of your team-- you make bad deals, and that one was bad from day one, and I knew it almost as soon as I made it." Note that he took responsibility, addressed his mistake upfront, made no excuses, didn't try to mitigate what he did, and M/MD had nothing critical to say that he hadn't already said. (Note also the complete sentences, and the getting straight to the point.) They just interviewed Torre, but I'll let that go for the time being. Suffice to say, it was the best, least hostile, most informative, most un-defensive conversation with a NY manager I've heard lately.

I'll live with a GM and manager whose interviews you don't like.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings?date=20070420&type=reg&br=9&year=2007&order=false&st=2

[metsmarathon]

of course they want theo to agree to come on for an interview next time they're in town, so its in their best interest to be civil.

they dont have to be civil to the local managers.

[Guest iramets]

Would ya listen to yourselves?

You're so determined to call me crazy, you're not taking into account fundamental facts like, I don't know, I pointed out that they had just had a civil, affable conversation with Joe freaking Torre who, far as I know, is not currently the manager of a team playing in Singapore, or that I specifically pointed out one of Mad Dog's rude comments to Theo (and implied that they were both their typical abrasive asshole selves to him), asking him rude questions about various stupid moves of his by which they clearly expected to show Theo up to public ridicule and which he handled with charm, modesty, pith and considerable useful information.

To say nothing of the fact that I was supplying one very specific response to the typical disbelieving question I get around here: "Oh, yeah, smart-guy, if other GMs are so clever and Omar's less articulate than many invertabrates and several floral displays, then why don't you supply us with a specific interview with one of these so-called 'smarter' General managers so we can see what you're blabbing about? You know why, smartass? Because there AREN'T any and you KNOW IT. So, Yah!"

If the only answer you'll accept is "Omar is smarter and more articulate than Satan, and more decent and helpful than Jesus," then there's no dealing with you, but don't make that out to be any fault of mine.

[Guest Edgy DC]

We have a preview for the Yankees-Sox Series and not the Mets-Braves series.

[Guest iramets]

Edgy DC wrote: We have a preview for the Yankees-Sox Series and not the Mets-Braves series.

Sure glad I didn't start this thread.

[metsmarathon]

c'mon, ira. they's sainted torre a long long time ago.

unfortunately, ive not heard the interview - maybe its on the net - but m&md certainly conduct themselves differently when they're interviewing out of town execs & managers than they do met execs and managers. i dont remember how they treated yankee execs and managers prior to '98, of course, but there's a whole lot that they have do do brutally wrong to wash away that late 90s aura, especially with francessa.

if/when the mets are crowned undisputed kings of the city, it wont matter if omar drools uncontrollably enough to short out his microphone while ranting and raving in klewok, a homebrew amalgam of klingon and ewok, they'll still treat him civilly.

[Guest iramets]

metsmarathon wrote: if omar drools uncontrollably enough to short out his microphone while ranting and raving in klewok, a homebrew amalgam of klingon and ewok

How would you tell?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Mariano blew another lead meanwhile sox with a 5-run 8th lead MFYs 7-6 in the 9th.

Mets honored Jackie Robinson tonight; Red Sox honoring Shawn Green:

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Sox releiever Okajima on to close it out -- crazy looking delivery he has. Arod has 2 HRs and 4 RBI already, batting NOW!!!

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

iramets wrote: They just interviewed Torre, but I'll let that go for the time being. Suffice to say, it was the best, least hostile, most informative, most un-defensive conversation with a NY manager I've heard lately.

I clearly don't care, but does it bother you to discover he lied? Dog asked whether he'd bring Mariano in for more a an inning and Joe said he wouldn't. You heard it.

[MFS62]

Have you noticed Jeter when the news shows clips of A-Rod's homers?He's been the first one to greet A-Rod after one of his homers, either at home plate or in front of the dugout.

Last year, when A-Rod was having tough times, Jeter avoided him like he was a radioactive leper.

"Oh Captain, Their Captain" is a front-running maggot, just like his fans.

Later

[stevejrogers]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Mariano blew another lead meanwhile sox with a 5-run 8th lead MFYs 7-6 in the 9th.

Yet somehow MFY fans will still blame the loss on ARod!

[Guest iramets]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: ="iramets"] They just interviewed Torre, but I'll let that go for the time being. Suffice to say, it was the best, least hostile, most informative, most un-defensive conversation with a NY manager I've heard lately. I clearly don't care, but does it bother you to discover he lied? Dog asked whether he'd bring Mariano in for more a an inning and Joe said he wouldn't. You heard it.

Actually, I didn't hear that (I was skipping around the dial). But do I care? I might, if I were a Yankee fan.

My question for you is: Is it a "lie" when Willie does it? Because he does it, every interview, every statement to the press, etc., and seem to get angry only when I characterize the chronic misstatements that inhabit Willie's oral cavity as "lies."

When Willie does it, you're all "He changed his MIND! A person can CHANGE his mind, can't he? How DARE you question Willie's honesty?? When you call him a liar, you're the LIAR! LIAR! LIAR!" OK, that's not you, that's Ms. Met, but still...it's funny how you can pick flyshit out of a pepper-box and slap any other major league manager with it but when a steaming turd is staring you in the face on your dinner plate, it's fine when it's Willie's steaming turd.

The strange thing about Joe's lie (and I have no problem calling it that) is that, like so many of Willie's, he had an easy out. When MD yaps "Ya gonna use Mariano in the eighth, Joe? Huh, are ya? Huh?" all he has to do is say "I doubt it, Chris, doubt it very much. I want to stick to the plan, which is to use him sparingly," he could have then used him in the eighth and not techncially lied, which is his usual smooth and evasive technique.

It's interesting that he did use him, though, doncha think? After foolishly committing himself in public to a policy that was more conservative than it needed to be, Joe spit the bit when the Sox threatened in the eighth, and forced his elderly reliever out there in a spot--8th inning, early season--where he'd made a careful plan NOT to use him. Kinda suggests that Torre was panicking a bit.

So I'm happy to call Joe Torre a liar and a bit-spitter and totally inconsistent last night. If he keeps it up all season long, he'll tie Willie for the year.

Except of course he was candid after the game, telling reporters flat out "I lied," which Willie never does. Here's a link to the "Joe Lies" story. Apparently, it wasn't just last night with MD but a policy he's been stating since spring training.

[Gwreck]

iramets wrote: but when a steaming turd is staring you in the face on your dinner plate, it's fine when it's Willie's steaming turd.

As long as the Mets are winning, Willie can tell boldfaced lies to the press every day and I'll be just fine with that.

[Guest iramets]

Gwreck wrote: ="iramets"]but when a steaming turd is staring you in the face on your dinner plate, it's fine when it's Willie's steaming turd. As long as the Mets are winning, Willie can tell boldfaced lies to the press every day and I'll be just fine with that.

Thank you for your honesty. Not many here are willing to agree that they care only about the bottom line, and Willie can be a retarded chimpanzee, for all they care, as long as the team wins.

Of course, when the team loses, as it has recently shown it's so richly capable of (when the WIlpons are in their favored mode of "Spend all the money in the world, so long as you spend it stupidly"), I expect you to be right beside me calling for the chimp's head on a pike.

[Gwreck]

iramets wrote: ="Gwreck"] iramets wrote: but when a steaming turd is staring you in the face on your dinner plate, it's fine when it's Willie's steaming turd. As long as the Mets are winning, Willie can tell boldfaced lies to the press every day and I'll be just fine with that. Thank you for your honesty. Not many here are willing to agree that they care only about the bottom line, and Willie can be a retarded chimpanzee, for all they care, as long as the team wins.

Big difference between what I wrote and what you did. A retarded chimpanzee is not OK. I'm on the record with typically criticizing Randolph one to three times per game, usually on strategic decisions or bench/bullpen management. As I said earlier though, what he says to the press is basically completely irrelevant to my evaluation of him, given the results he's produced.

I'll give a re-eval to the sitatuation if and when the Mets endure losing under Randolph.

[Guest Kid Carsey]

I only care about winning too and don't really care if Willie lies, has the IQ
of a bar stool leg, or picks his nose and stuffs his snots in his ear.

This constant collective judgement of everyone's ability to reason is tiresome.

[Guest iramets]

Kid Carsey wrote: This constant collective judgement of everyone's ability to reason is tiresome.

I think you're being very unfair to Gwreck here, KC. Why can't he claim to be "typically criticizing Randolph one to three times per game, usually on strategic decisions or bench/bullpen management" without your accusing him of being a repetitious bore? Personally, I find such criticism interesting and valuable.

[Guest Kid Carsey]

Because I like Gwreck. You, I'm not so sure many days.

There, I said it.

Good day, sir.

[Guest Rotblatt]

]Yet somehow MFY fans will still blame the loss on ARod!

So I was at a restaurant last night that was infested with a bunch of suit-wearing Yankee fans, and one foaming-at-the-mouth 10-year old boy wearing a shirt with the Yankee logo and a caption reading, "Do the Math." This kid was seriously straight out of Dawn of the Dead--he was leaping out of his seat and clapping his hands, pounding his fist on the table, and yelling pretty much non-stop--while his family was quietly having dinner around him. I was too far away to hear what he was yelling, but the subtext was obviously, "Kill! Kill! Kill!"

Anyway, I'm standing at the bar watching the TV, which is on close-captioning, and Jeter is fielding a ball insanely deep in the hole and does his balletic pirrouette-jump-throw thing, to second base, and not only was the runner already there, his throw was completely off-line, and he was lucky it didn't end up an error. I'm trying hard not to laugh my ass off when I see on the close captioning, "That was a good play by Jeter." I blurt out, "How the hell was that a good play? He would have been better off putting it in his pocket," and one of the suited, loud, Yankee fans turns to me, makes eye contact and say, "A-ROD WOULD HAVE MADE THAT PLAY," while shaking his head.

Thinking I'd entered the Twighlight Zone, I nodded and backed away slowly, returning to my table.

What is the world coming to when a Yankee fan criticizes Jeter AND lavishes praise on A-Rod in the same breath?

[Guest iramets]

Kid Carsey wrote: Because I like Gwreck. You, I'm not so sure many days. There, I said it. Good day, sir.

I thank you too for your refreshing honesty that you sometimes spend weeks or months on end denying.

[Guest iramets]

Rotblatt wrote: Anyway, I'm standing at the bar watching the TV, which is on close-captioning, and Jeter is fielding a ball insanely deep in the hole and does his balletic pirrouette-jump-throw thing, to second base, and not only was the runner already there, his throw was completely off-line, and he was lucky it didn't end up an error. I'm trying hard not to laugh my ass off when I see on the close captioning, "That was a good play by Jeter." I blurt out, "How the hell was that a good play? He would have been better off putting it in his pocket," and one of the suited, loud, Yankee fans turns to me, makes eye contact and say, "A-ROD WOULD HAVE MADE THAT PLAY," while shaking his head. Thinking I'd entered the Twighlight Zone, I nodded and backed away slowly, returning to my table. What is the world coming to when a Yankee fan criticizes Jeter AND lavishes praise on A-Rod in the same breath?

Did you see the Times article earlier this week, where someone showed Jeter some range factor stats that showed him, for all his flashy ballet and adagio bullshit, to be 25th out of 30 MLB ss's last year in range? He gave a typical "Oh, yeah, did that stat take into account every pitch-count, weather condition, hemmorhoidal itch that every player, manager, and fan dealt with last year? No? Then it's obviously bullshit." It was so colossally ignorant, it woulda made Reality Chuck proud.

[Frayed Knot]

]If the only answer you'll accept is "Omar is smarter and more articulate than Satan, and more decent and helpful than Jesus," then there's no dealing with you, but don't make that out to be any fault of mine.

This, I can only assume, is directed at all those here who have been constantly touting Omar as a polished public speaker.

In the meantime, what looked like a typical (read: frustrating) Yanx/Sawx game - what with ARod continuing to be insane and Pettitte pitching like it's 1999 - suddenly turned on a few key ABs and a few Torre decisions (not all bad necc) that backfired.
- first Posada had to leave and he was stuck with Will (I haven't had a hit all year) Nieves catching. Nieves was then on-deck when the last out was made but Torre was ready to PH with his DH/3rd catcher Phelps if the inning continued
- he then pulled Proctor after just 2/3 IP in favor of his LOOGY Myers to pitch to Papi in the 8th (didn't work), then had to go to Vizcaino for the rest of the inning and he was the real culprit
- he also pinch-ran for Giambi trying for what was then a tack-on run (didn't get it) and it was Giambi's spot which came up w/2 outs in the 9th and the tying run on base. Kevin Thompson batter instead and K'd to end the game.
- and the big blow against Mariano - Crisp's 2RBI triple - was really nothing more than a 2-hopper that got between Meintky and the bag as he wasn't guarding the line w/the tying run on 1st

[Guest iramets]

Frayed Knot wrote: ]If the only answer you'll accept is "Omar is smarter and more articulate than Satan, and more decent and helpful than Jesus," then there's no dealing with you, but don't make that out to be any fault of mine. This, I can only assume, is directed at all those here who have been constantly touting Omar as a polished public speaker.

Astonishing as it may seem to you, there are those on this site who have said as much within the last 24 hours.

]In the meantime, what looked like a typical (read: frustrating) Yanx/Sawx game - what with ARod continuing to be insane and Pettitte pitching like it's 1999 - suddenly turned on a few key ABs and a few Torre decisions (not all bad necc) that backfired. - first Posada had to leave and he was stuck with Will (I haven't had a hit all year) Nieves catching. Nieves was then on-deck when the last out was made but Torre was ready to PH with his DH/3rd catcher Phelps if the inning continued - he then pulled Proctor after just 2/3 IP in favor of his LOOGY Myers to pitch to Papi in the 8th (didn't work), then had to go to Vizcaino for the rest of the inning and he was the real culprit - he also pinch-ran for Giambi trying for what was then a tack-on run (didn't get it) and it was Giambi's spot which came up w/2 outs in the 9th and the tying run on base. Kevin Thompson batter instead and K'd to end the game. - and the big blow against Mariano - Crisp's 2RBI triple - was really nothing more than a 2-hopper that got between Meintky and the bag as he wasn't guarding the line w/the tying run on 1st

Supposedly, Mariano had been throwing 89-91 (as opposed to his customary 93-94) and Man-cave-itch would have been playing Crisp correctly ("he'll never get around on Mariano") had Mariona been Mariano. In a larger sense, what troubles me about Torre's reliance on Mariano's continued excellence is that, if Mariano comes up dry, which isn't impossible at his age, and never pitches well again, the Yankees have no prayer. That's a lot to rely on a single player for--Joe has to pitch him in clutch spots throughout the year, and if he goes south, goombye Division, goombye wildcard, goombye playoffs, goombye Joe.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

iramets wrote: ="Frayed Knot"] ]If the only answer you'll accept is "Omar is smarter and more articulate than Satan, and more decent and helpful than Jesus," then there's no dealing with you, but don't make that out to be any fault of mine. This, I can only assume, is directed at all those here who have been constantly touting Omar as a polished public speaker. Astonishing as it may seem to you, there are those on this site who have said as much within the last 24 hours.

I'll PayPal you a nickel for every such example you can find.

[Guest iramets]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I'll PayPal you a nickel for every such example you can find.

Somebody just claimed that Omar is plenty articulate--it was the thread where CF dissented from this opinion. Don't know where--maybe CF can remember.

Can you Paypal me the nickel now? I need the money.

[metirish]

The guy that wrote the article I linked in the Imus thread said Omar is articulate,not sure if anyone here did though.