Zee-Toe

[seawolf17]

I agree with Yancy. The money's there; what's $25 million? Don't you think the Red Sox would rather have Johnny Damon at his contract than J.D. Drew at his contract? I think Zito's probably going to be worth it... spend the money.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Vic Sage wrote: and i'm fine with saving our chips for a major deal, if that ends up being Omar's strategy. but what i DON'T want us to do is go into the season with the current rotation because we insisted on staying at 5yr/$75m rather than go 6yrs/$100m on Zito.

I totally agree with you on that, Vic.

ETA: Oh, and both signing Zito & trading for Haren would be pretty sweet.

[Guest sharpie]

I thought the scuttlebut was Rich Harden not Danny Haren.

[Guest Rotblatt]

sharpie wrote: I thought the scuttlebut was Rich Harden not Danny Haren.

Oh. Well, that changes things a bit, huh? Lots of upside, but injury prone is his deal, right?

The deal might still be worth it, but it'd make me think we needed Zito, too, since he's pretty durable . . .

[Vic Sage]

Milledge, Heilman + Humber 4 Harden?

I'd do that in a heartbeat, because:

1) Harden is one of the top young starters in baseball, ready to be a real ace;

2) his injury history is what makes him risky, but its also what makes him available;

3) Humber's upside simply means he might one day approach what Harden already is, and his injury history is pretty significant, too;

4) Heilman is wasted in NY, where he's used neither a closer nor a starter, and is just one of a number of good setup men currently in the pen;

5) Milledge doesn't appear to be a significant part of the `07 team, and with the trade for Johnson, and the 2 young CF studs down on the farm, and his questionable attitude and work habits, he's become extremely expendable.

yeah, sign me up for this one.

[Guest Edgy DC]

That's too much. That's a package you put together for Willis; you've got to pull one of those guys out for Harden.

[Farmer Ted]

Milledge, Heilman + Humber for Harden?

Your giving up three nice chips for a guy, until yesterday, I had never heard of. Put down the fork and step away from the fruitcake. It looks good, but it tastes like crap.

[Vic Sage]

Harden's ERA+ of 123+ and 1.277 WHIP compares favorably with Willis' 120+ and 1.299. Of course Willis has 200 IP/30+ GS each of the last 3 seasons, and Harden has had only 1 full season so far, so his injury risk is considerable.

But it is considerable for Humber, too. And Milledge hasn't proved anything yet. And Heilman is, so far, only successful as a setup guy. Since I don't think you could get Willis for that package, I'd be willing to get Harden for that.

[Vic Sage]

Ted, your ignorance of Harden doesn't mean fruitcake to me.

[Guest Rotblatt]

]But it is considerable for Humber, too. And Milledge hasn't proved anything yet. And Heilman is, so far, only successful as a setup guy. Since I don't think you could get Willis for that package, I'd be willing to get Harden for that.

I wouldn't complain if we made the deal, but I don't think we'd have a clear advantage.

Which I suppose means I think it's a fair deal . . .

[nymr83]

Farmer Ted's not knowing who Harden is lowers my opinion of Ted, not Harden... nonetheless i think Milledge, Heilman, and Humber is just a bit too much.

]Heilman is wasted in NY, where he's used neither a closer nor a starter, and is just one of a number of good setup men currently in the pen;

i would not hesitate to move Heilman as part of a package for a good starter, but along with Milledge and Humber its too much.

[Vic Sage]

its too much if Harden implodes. But then again, anything would be too much if Harden implodes.

But if he picks up where he left off, as a 24 year old dominating power pitcher, he becomes the ace we need to get over the hump.

And if you can get such a guy without taking a single impact player from your major-league team, i think you do it.

Humber has had multiple injuries. Milledge's stock is down. Heilman is a setup guy.

Lets be real, folks. You don't get if you don't give. IF it don't hurt, you didn't do it right. Lets stop trying to rape another team and settle for a deal that helps both sides.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think your giving with two of those guys.

I don't think I want to frame it as if he implodes and if he doesn't, but put a very real value lost on the possiblity that he might. All trades are good if they fly, all trades are bad if they don't. Instead, you make a risk assessment and factor that into the value.

I say too risky. They lose one of the players in that package because of that risk.

[Vic Sage]

different people have different levels of risk tolerence. But its not just about risk... its about risk/reward. If you agree that the reward of a healthy Harden is significant, greatly increasing our chances of post-season success, then you have to weigh that against the risk accordingly.

we've just come to a different calculation on this analysis.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Agreed. A healthy Harden is worth three of those guys to me. A questionable Harden is worth two.

And I just can't conceive how we've come this far iinto the conversation with no punning.

[Centerfield]

Me too. If only Harden went by "Dick". It would open up so much...

[Guest Edgy DC]

I mean, the question is on the table, "What's a healthy Harden worth to you?"

I've got Centerfield and Vic Sage in the thread and they've got nothing but restaint.

Strange day.

[metirish]

My question is this,why is Beane shopping his young studs,is he really that high on Lastings and Heilman or is he wanting to get rid of a few pitchers that he thinks are injury prone...

[smg58]

That's an excellent question, given that Harden is three years away from free agency. He also hasn't pitched 200 innings total in the past two seasons. Buyer beware?

[Guest iramets]

Maybe look into Beane's history of keeping certain pitchers and dealing others off, and which got hurt after being traded and after being kept?

[metirish]

iramets wrote: Maybe look into Beane's history of keeping certain pitchers and dealing others off, and which got hurt after being traded and after being kept?

Steve Rogers you are needed.....

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

It's possible some of the talk helps the Mets' leverage v. Boras re: Zito.

It's also possible that Beane is seeing an opportunity to reload/reduce $$ on the fly and he's a guy who acts sooner because he can't afford to wait till later. The Mets are in a position to splash for a stud starter one way or another, may as well try and benefit from it.

Of course, it's also possible Harden and Haren expressed reservations about sharing a locker room with Piazza.

[Farmer Ted]

"Farmer Ted's not knowing who Harden is lowers my opinion of Ted"

Damn, still no friends on this damn board.

Not knowing who Hard-On is simply means I don't have the opportunity to watch the 2 am SportsCenter every night or wait two days to get the late box scores in my bumpkin paper to know what the A's are putting on the mound each night.

In any case, three highly-regarded players for a guy with what, 15 decent games under his belt, is too tall an order. The Mets didn't give up anything to get a similar poke in Oliver Perez.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, that ends that unlikely streak.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Ted, if it helps any I had never heard of Harden either. Twenty years ago I knew who every player was. Since 1994, I only follow the Mets and I'm not embarrassed to admit to my lack of knowledge of other teams. I'll know all about Harden if he becomes a Met. And if he doesn't, he simply doesn't matter to me.

[Guest ABG]

Not knowing one of the top young pitchers in baseball really should disqualify you from this discussion.

[Guest KC]

Jeez, tough crowd. I love it when people who complain about negativity sign
in just to make a crack about someone when it suits their fancy.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

ABG wrote: Not knowing one of the top young pitchers in baseball really should disqualify you from this discussion.

I don't think so. It's mainly a discussion about Zito and the Mets anyway.

Since I don't know about Harden, I'm not weighing in on how much the Mets should or shouldn't give up for him. But there's a lot more to the discussion than just that.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

I had read somewhere that the Mets might be interested in Danny Haren, as opposed to Rich Harden. I wonder whether that would give Zito more incentive to sign with the Mets, since Zito had taken Haren under his wing in Oakland.

[Guest ABG]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ="ABG"]Not knowing one of the top young pitchers in baseball really should disqualify you from this discussion. I don't think so. It's mainly a discussion about Zito and the Mets anyway. Since I don't know about Harden, I'm not weighing in on how much the Mets should or shouldn't give up for him. But there's a lot more to the discussion than just that.

I was referring more to Ted's comment that we shouldn't give up certain players for a guy he'd never heard of.