Daisuke Matsuzaka -Let The Bidding Begin.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Or they can win it and have the guy pitch like a klutz.

[seawolf17]

I'd rather what Yancy said. I want them to spend $80 million and find out he's Hideki Irabu.

[stevejrogers]

seawolf17 wrote: I'd rather what Yancy said. I want them to spend $80 million and find out he's Hideki Irabu.

Or the pitching version of Hideki Matsui (Irabu at least had moments)

[nymr83]

SteveJRogers wrote: ="seawolf17"]I'd rather what Yancy said. I want them to spend $80 million and find out he's Hideki Irabu. Or the pitching version of Hideki Matsui (Irabu at least had moments)

i hope you mean KAZ matsui, because Hideki has ended up pretty good

[stevejrogers]

Nymr83 wrote: ="SteveJRogers"] ="seawolf17"]I'd rather what Yancy said. I want them to spend $80 million and find out he's Hideki Irabu. Or the pitching version of Hideki Matsui (Irabu at least had moments) i hope you mean KAZ matsui, because Hideki has ended up pretty good

Yeah I did mean Kaz

D'OH!

[metirish]

Lads this fella has some nasty stuff



this one claims to show his gyro ball

[Guest Edgy DC]

The play of his team's defense was turning me off.

[metirish]

Yeah the defence is atrocious...there is some who think that there is no such thing as a gyro pitch....including H Matsui.

] Matsuzaka: Man with a mystery pitch By PETER ABRAHAM THE JOURNAL NEWS (Original publication: October 29, 2006) t sounds like the plot of a comic book. A Japanese scientist, working in secret, uses a supercomputer to develop a new pitch that is virtually unhittable. One player masters it and becomes so dominant that the Yankees pay nearly $100 million to bring him to America. Only this urban legend just might be true. The scientist is named Ryutaro Himeno, the pitch is called the gyroball, and by the end of next month, Daisuke Matsuzaka could well be in pinstripes. Don't believe it? Go to YouTube.com and see for yourself. At last count, there were five videos on the popular Internet site purporting to show the gyroball. In each grainy clip, Matsuzaka unleashes a pitch that starts high in the strike zone, then dives for the inside corner. The ball seems to spiral like a football, yet doesn't have the familiar loop of a curveball. It instead takes a left turn as it reaches the plate. The hapless batter either looks at the pitch in disbelief, bat left on his shoulder, or swings and misses by 2 feet. Himeno consulted with a former player, Kaz Tezuka, to develop the gyroball four years ago. They wrote a book that described how a pitcher, using precise motions with his hips and shoulders, could throw the miracle pitch. Double-spin mechanics is the rough translation of their theory. There are dissenters, and they have impeccable credentials. Yale professor emeritus Robert Adair, author of "The Physics of Baseball,'' has studied the gyroball and determined that throwing a baseball in a spiral would have no bearing on its trajectory. "The pitch would seem to be useless in baseball,'' Adair said. "It might be useful as a changeup, but I rather doubt it.'' Adair also did not believe the pitch was new, comparing it to a "googly'' in cricket. Hideki Matsui, the Yankees' outfielder and a former star in Japan, has heard reports of the gyroball but doesn't believe it exists. "No, no, just a story,'' he said. "It's a good slider.'' Japanese pitchers, Matsui explained, throw a variety of breaking pitches. The gyroball is merely a variation. Matsuzaka himself claims not to throw a gyroball, but always with a smile as though he is in on the joke. When he pitched for Japan in the World Baseball Classic last March, Matsuzaka said he was working on the pitch. Whatever he is throwing, Matsuzaka is clearly onto something. A 26-year-old right-hander, Matsuzaka was 17-5 with a 2.13 ERA for the Seibu Lions this season. In 186 1/3 innings, he allowed only 138 hits and struck out 200. Matsuzaka was 3-0 with a 1.38 ERA in the WBC and was named MVP after allowing one run in four innings against Cuba in the championship game. Trey Hillman, manager of the Nippon Ham Fighters, believes Matsuzaka could be a No. 1 starter. "He has a 95-mph fastball and he gets tough with men on base,'' Hillman said. "He won't back down and he has a lot of discipline. You wouldn't be taking a big chance if you signed him.'' Seibu has "posted'' Matsuzaka, meaning that any team in the Major Leagues can submit a sealed bid to obtain his rights for 30 days. That process could start tomorrow now that the Japan Series is over. The winning bid for Matsuzaka will likely be in excess of $20 million. The Yankees, Mets, Mariners, Red Sox, Dodgers and Tigers are expected to be among the bidders. Matsuzaka is said to favor the Mariners, but the Yankees have tried to negate that by hiring one of his friends, former Seibu teammate Shoichi Kida, as a scout. Assistant general manager Jean Afterman has been to Japan several times in recent months to gather information on Matsuzaka. Matsuzaka has retained Scott Boras as his agent. Given his history with pitchers, Boras will seek a four-year contract worth at least $55 million. All told, it could take $80 million to bring Matsuzaka to America � more than the entire payroll of 15 teams last season. It's a lot. But it would bring an ace in return and perhaps a pitch you have to see to believe. For a YouTube.com link of a video showing Matsuzaka pitching, go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sboi0EWp8ao

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

His fastball tends to tail in on a right handed hitter. The "gyroball" looks like a very good 12 to 6 curveball. Nothing new that MLB hitters haven't seen before, but still a very good pitch.

[metirish]

Matsui claims "it's a good slider"...

[Valadius]

The Mariners are apparently out of the bidding, or so says their GM.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

]Matsuzaka bidding begins; Mariners say they won't bid November 2, 2006 NEW YORK (AP) -- Major league teams wishing to sign Japanese pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka must submit their offers by 5 p.m. EST next Wednesday -- and the Seattle Mariners won't be bidding. Matsuzaka was officially put up for auction Thursday by the Seibu Lions of Japan's Pacific League. After the bidding has closed, the Lions will be told of the highest offer, without being informed of which team made it. The Lions have until Nov. 14 to accept. If the offer is accepted, the big league team that made the bid is notified and gets a 30-day window to reach a contract agreement with Matsuzaka, who is represented by agent Scott Boras. The Lions only receive the payment from the major league team if Matsuzaka is signed to a big league contract. The New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox and New York Mets are thought to be interested in Matsuzaka. Matsuzaka was MVP of the World Baseball Classic in March, then went 17-5 with a 2.13 ERA and 200 strikeouts for the Lions. He throws in the high-90s mph, has good offspeed pitches and is known for the "gyroball," a pitch that breaks to the left. Seattle general manager Bill Bavasi said Thursday that the Mariners won't bid. Bavasi said the decision was made by Nintendo Co. president Hiroshi Yamauchi, the boss of team chairman Howard Lincoln. "Mr. Yamauchi has decided that the Mariners will not be participating in the bid process, a decision with which our baseball department concurs," Bavasi said. "We will continue to pursue other ways other ways to improve the team, specifically our pitching."

[metirish]

I wonder if this decision will impact Icirho and weather he wants to stay in Seattle.

[nymr83]

is Seattle bluffing?

[metirish]

Why would they bluff though?

[Elster88]

I wonder how much the Nintendo guy is worth.

[metirish]

Interesting bit form a NYT article....

] If the Lions hold onto Matsuzaka, they may very well wind up with nothing in return. By posting him, they will get a windfall. Precisely how much, though, may never be known. Quoting an unnamed Lions executive, the Japanese newspaper Sankei Sports reported last Friday that three unidentified major league teams had approached the executive about setting up a prearranged deal for Matsuzaka. The executive told the newspaper that he did not engage the teams in conversation because he considered it tampering. But, in theory, a team could effectively tell the Lions: �We want to get Matsuzaka. What if we bid $50 million to make sure we win his rights, and then we paid you $20 million?� The Seattle Mariners had a working agreement with the Orix Blue Wave, Ichiro Suzuki�s old team, before winning his negotiating rights with a $13 million bid in 2000. There have long been rumors that the Mariners never had to pay the full amount.

[Frayed Knot]

ESPN's Buster Olney put forth another shady arrangement; one where some team like Baltimore or Toronto puts in a sky-high bid and then low-ball the Mataszka/Boras team in negotiations. With no other teams to bargain with, he'd have to return to Japan and try again next year when he'd be a true FA. Meanwhile, the O's & Jays would keep him out of the hands of the Yanx & BoSox for at least one more year.
Olney said he did NOT expect this to happen, only that it could.


btw, the first name is apparently pronounced along the lines of Dice-Kay
Decent article in today's Newsday about DM and the concept of "doryoku".

[metirish]

Good article,thanks for posting FK, good to see MLB is trying to change the posting system...

[Guest Edgy DC]

If he fails to reach an agreement after X (30?) days, doesn't the posting team get to offer negotiating rights to the next highest bidder?

Would Torontimore just be delaying and (angering) the Yank Sox?

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy DC wrote: If he fails to reach an agreement after X (30?) days, doesn't the posting team get to offer negotiating rights to the next highest bidder?

Nope, it's a one-shot, all-er-nuthin' deal.
Matsuaka will play this year for the team that wins his MLB negotiating rights or with the JPL team that currently owns him.

]Would Torontimore just be delaying and (angering) the Yank Sox?

Probably. But teams throwing wrenches into the works of opponents is nothing new.

[metirish]

I don't think so Edgy, apparently the winning bid has exclusive rights to chat with Boras and they can't reach an agreement then the bid is given back and he plays the next season in Japan.

[nymr83]

]ESPN's Buster Olney put forth another shady arrangement; one where some team like Baltimore or Toronto puts in a sky-high bid and then low-ball the Mataszka/Boras team in negotiations. With no other teams to bargain with, he'd have to return to Japan and try again next year when he'd be a true FA. Meanwhile, the O's & Jays would keep him out of the hands of the Yanx & BoSox for at least one more year. Olney said he did NOT expect this to happen, only that it could.

of course, this could backfire on them if the Japanese team decides it wants the money, they could tell Matsuzaka to accept the "low ball" offer with the understanding that they'll pay him 1/3-1/2 of the gigantic fee.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Frayed Knot wrote: btw, the first name is apparently pronounced along the lines of Dice-Kay

That doesn't seem right to me. The first syllable should rhyme with "Guy" The second syllable would be Sue and the third would be Ke with a short E.

Dai Su Ke.

No accent on any of the syllables.

Of course, if he does come to America, announcers will probably mispronounce his name, and the mispronounciation will become standard.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I imagine the "oo" in the second syllable is run so as to be largely inaudible to many ears.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Interesting posting trivia:

Ichiro Suzuki was not, as is commonly reported, the first player "posted" by his Japanese team/player for whom the system was devaloped.

Ichiro was posted following the 2000 season, but two players were posted by the Hiroshima Toyo Carp before the 1999 season. One (Alejandro Quezada) was claimed by Cincinnati for a 400,001 bid (nice e-bay move of going one over a round number) but never progressed beyond AA, and the other (Timo Perez, ladies and gentlemen) wasn't bid on at all and resigned with the Carp.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Edgy DC wrote: I imagine the "oo" in the second syllable is run so as to be largely inaudible to many ears.

Good point. I've found that the u sound ("oo") is the one that's most commonly silent.

[Frayed Knot]

As in when the pronounciation of Akinori Otsuka went from Oat-Soo-Ka when he first came over into Oats-Ka as Americans got corrected and the middle syllable got swallowed in the process.

So that mainly leaves us with the final syllable question ('Kay' vs 'Keh') as the initial 'Dais' as 'Dice' is pretty much the same as your 'Guys'. Maybe 'Dize' would have been a better choice for the writer of the Newsday article.

[MFS62]

Nymr83 wrote: ]ESPN's Buster Olney put forth another shady arrangement; one where some team like Baltimore or Toronto puts in a sky-high bid and then low-ball the Mataszka/Boras team in negotiations. With no other teams to bargain with, he'd have to return to Japan and try again next year when he'd be a true FA. Meanwhile, the O's & Jays would keep him out of the hands of the Yanx & BoSox for at least one more year. Olney said he did NOT expect this to happen, only that it could. of course, this could backfire on them if the Japanese team decides it wants the money, they could tell Matsuzaka to accept the "low ball" offer with the understanding that they'll pay him 1/3-1/2 of the gigantic fee.

My devious mind has come up with another possibility.

For many years, Japanese Corporations have entered into clandestine agreements with each other to manipulate a market. For example, when FAX machines were new, the seven major manufacturers of those devices would meet on a quarterly basis and decide which company would be the first to introduce a new function/feature to the worldwide market.

That said, it has been mentioned here (I think by Edgy) that there are tremendous marketing possibilities for an alliance between Japanese Companies (which already give their teams corporare names) and the US market. IIRC, this was in a discussion about the YES network cross-marketing Hidecki Matsui. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese team holding Matsuzaka's contract to tell one "preferred" large market US suitor, "I'll tell the bidders that the price is X. If you bid X+ 1 million, he's yours".

It wouldn't be ethical. But it wouldn't be prescedent setting, either.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

The Sunday NYTimes article that Irish quotes from above mentions several ways that "rigging" of the process could occur.
It also says that Selig has the right to review any and all paperwork and could step in and award the rights to the 2nd highest bidder if he thought some sort of fraud was concerned. My earlier answer that this wouldn't happen was that the set-up does not automatically revert the rights to the next highest bidder simply due to Matusaka/Boras not being about to strike a deal with the highest.