IGT 6/15/06 vs. the Orioles

[Zvon]

A tuff and short IGT here.
I didnt miss much.

Soler pitched well enough.
Another inning from him would have been a prudent course.
For what its worth, Bedard also may have had another inning in him. They pull him to bunt with a pinch hitter. Silly. It was a big bunt tho, that resulted in the Orioles scoring 4 times.

Delgado allowed them to continue a rally, tho that wont be reflected in any box score. He had options if he picks that grounder clean ( i didnt see the game, but discirtions of the event makes it look like he messed up at least that much.

Heilman gave it up. Walks kill.
Thats the bottom line here.
(besides our offense was a lil laggy)

] The four-run seventh continued Heilman's recent struggles. "Heilman should pitch way over the top," pitching coach Rick Peterson said. "But he's reverting to a three-quarters delivery." "It's certainly been a work in progress," Heilman said. "I definitely feel better than I did a week ago. I threw a couple of pretty good pitches that just missed. I wasn't missing by a lot. Then a couple of bloops and a hanging changeup."

But you walk the two leadoff batters, you are creating you own hole to dig yourself out of. And then the last thing you want to do is hang a changeup to Mora.

Mora makes the best of the "ex team factor".

We're not gonna win em all, but I do think its healthy when we pick apart the things that could have changed the outcome of the game.
Hielman takes the brunt of it.

[Elster88]

Hillbilly wrote: Soler throws a soft pitch out. Willie needs to ball him out and the press needs to write about this rookie mistake for about a week. I think it's a character flaw. Back to the PBP: Soler leaves two on by inducing the ground out.

What is a "soft pitch out"?

[Elster88]

="Johnny Dickshot"]Heilman Thru 3-inning MFY game 5/19: 23.1 IP, 0 HR, 23/6 K/BB 1.42 ERA Post 3-inning MFY game 5/19: 12.2 IP, 3 HR, 7/9 K/BB, 8.56 ERA Yeow.

Put him in the rotation NOW!!!!

[nymr83]

Elster88 wrote: What is a "soft pitch out"?

tossing the ball home rather than gunning it to give the catcher as much time as possible i'd guess, i didnt see the play though

[Guest Edgy DC]

We lost this game because the thread was mis-titled.

[metsmarathon]

i was disgusted at how much booing i was hearing as heilman walked off the field. we just won 8 straight, and those idiots boo at the first sign of struggle? get the hell out of my stadium!

[Guest Iubitul]

Those were the fans Chipper was talking about....

[DocTee]

]We lost this game because the thread was mis-titled.

I blame the black hat/black shirt combo at home.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I didn't like Soler sitting after 6 innings.

Ron Darling, thought it was a good move, though. Said that it's best to get Soler out of the game while he still has a positive feeling. My fear, which turned out to be warranted, was that his good feeling would get snuffed by the bullpen blowing his nice game.

I wanted Soler to pitch the 7th.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

DocTee wrote: ]We lost this game because the thread was mis-titled. I blame the black hat/black shirt combo at home.

The whole playoff roster thread being posted, then exploded, practically guarateed an ugly losing skein.

[nymr83]

yeah, definetaly the playoff thread's fault, my mis-titling the thread shouldnt matter, i'm not the ine who fucked with the baseball gods.

as for the booing, thats what happens when you give up 4 runs in an inning, you don't like it? don't pitch for a living.

[metsmarathon]

i don't like it, and i don't pitch for a living.

it makes met fans appear to be comprised of a bunch of turn-coat jerome-from-manhattans.

i mean, is heilman really deserving of new whipping boy status?

[Frayed Knot]

These arguments about booing genrally bore me ... but whatdahell.

On the one hand you can make the case that they're booing the individual performance and not the player. A 4-run 7th inning is pretty ugly.
On the other, it usually strikes me more as; 'WAH ... everything's not going perfectly so I'm gonna blame the goat-du-jour as loud as I can'

So, particularly after close to two weeks of near-perfection, the reaction just seems so disproportionate to the "crime". That was my beef with the late-night radio chatter I heard briefly. I have no problem with 2nd-guessing the manager (or whatever), I just thought it sounded too much like; 'WAH ... I disagree w/Willie's pitching change therefore he's a losing, choking, ex-Yanqui scum who should be fired immediately!!!!'

[Guest Edgy DC]

]as for the booing, thats what happens when you give up 4 runs in an inning

Actually, no.

[nymr83]

] i mean, is heilman really deserving of new whipping boy status?

who the heck said anything about turning him into a whipping boy? he was booed for a HORRIBLE performance as he left the field, not the next day or a week later,

]Actually, no.

Actually, yes.

[metsmarathon]

one bad inning while the team is playing 0.800 ball.

BOO!!!

c'mon...

with that, boo if you want. i'll still think it's stupid.

[nymr83]

]metsmarathon 160) Kaz Matsui SS, 2B 2004

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

hehehe, too easy

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Actually, yes.

No, that's what people choose to do or don't. Saying it's something that happens is an evasive switch into the passive.

I assure you numerous times it hasn't happened.

[nymr83]

and i'll assure that numerous times it has.
how many met home games do you attend per year edgy? i'm at a good dozen minimum and i can assure you that any relief pitcher who gives up 4 runs in an inning will hear a chorus of boos.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Either it happens all the time by definition or it doesn't.

[metsmarathon]

i think my point is not wether it does or doesn't, but that it shouldn't. at the very least not in this circumstance.

another interesting dialogue would wether it always has or hasn't always.

i think that lately, nymr would be right. poor performances get unilaterally booed. problem is, lately, meaning the last few years, the mets have largely sucked, and may have been more deserving of boos. until this year, wherein they do not suck. and it seems to me that having the best record in baseball should quiet the boo birds on the occasion of the first bad inning following a tremendously successful road trip.

[nymr83]

but the "boo birds" weren't on that road trip. the "boo birds" paid $15 for parking, $30 for their ticket, $20 for food (and likely another $30 for beer) TODAY, so they're gonna boo when they see a met pitcher get lit up like a christmas tree.

[metsmarathon]

there were plenty of mets fans on that road trip, they had all paid a similar expense, some even travelled, and none of them booed.

[nymr83]

metsmarathon wrote: there were plenty of mets fans on that road trip, they had all paid a similar expense, some even travelled, and none of them booed.

they didn't have a reason to boo

[Elster88]

Nymr83 wrote: but the "boo birds" weren't on that road trip. the "boo birds" paid $15 for parking, $30 for their ticket, $20 for food (and likely another $30 for beer) TODAY, so they're gonna boo when they see a met pitcher get lit up like a christmas tree.

I paid money, so I have the right to make a guy feel like shit.

[nymr83]

i'm sure they can take comfort in their very large paychecks. if they want a job where nobody will criticize their poor job performance i hear that McDonalds is hiring.

[metsmarathon]

you've never worked fast food, have you?

people act like boors (not boo-ers) when they're buying 99c chicken mcnuggets, too. sometimes moreso.

also, this does nothing to move me off my position that you shouldn't treat people like crap by doing things such as booing.

if you're getting publicly humiliated by your boss or paying customers, i'm sorry. it doesn't mean you should publicly humiliate others, regardless how well they are getting paid.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's not about being a baseball fan. It's class warfare!

[Zvon]

These boo birds should be cheering the mets throughout this homestand just for the teams performance on that road trip.
Heilman may have been a main reason the mets lost that game, but theres no need to boo him for that.

See,this is the problem.
I dont know if its the media or what, but I assume it is-
they give these assholes a name.
They pay attention to them and name them and thus create an entity-
THE BOO BIRDS.
Now there are people that consider themselves that, and think its a worthy calling.
Their main goal at a game is finding something to boo at, because they have been told they are a "special" group.
So I dont pay much attention to it anymore.
You hit 3 homers and if you dont hit a 4rth, and thats the worst that happens that game- youll get booed.

Those fans are "special" allright.
Short bus special.

[Elster88]

I'm sick of this argument.