All Purpose Schaefer Discussion Thread

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Yes, discussion in the actual thread is fine once the voting is closed. (Before that it just complicates things for me.)

This thread is for those who just can't wait to comment on somebody else's vote, or for a general discussion of Schaefer voting. I'll also use it to post season-to-date and month-to-date totals throughout the season.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Not surprising that David Wright is our early leader:

Season-to-date totals for 2006
Through game of April 9, 2006

Name	Points
David Wright	8.87
Tom Glavine	6.31
Xavier Nady	4.86
Carlos Beltran	4.80
Carlos Delgado	4.37
Jos� Reyes	4.05
Steve Trachsel	3.55
Duaner Sanchez	3.11
Brian Bannister	2.41
Billy Wagner	1.50
Pedro Martinez	1.43
Paul LoDuca	1.40
Aaron Heilman	0.98
Cliff Floyd	0.77
Anderson Hernandez	0.41
Chad Bradford	0.31
Darren Oliver	0.06
Endy Chavez	0.01

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Remember, for those who want to crunch their own Schaefer numbers, you can get everything you need from here:

http://potg.leaptoad.com/mets/

2005 has only the monthly and season totals. For 2006, there's individual game data. Click on the Raw Data link to get CSV data that can be pasted into a spreadsheet.

The data will be updated as soon as the voting is closed for each game.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

If Pedro comes out for the 8th and gets relieved, and gets 6 Schaefer points... how many does he get if he stays in?

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: If Pedro comes out for the 8th and gets relieved, and gets 6 Schaefer points... how many does he get if he stays in?

As many as if he pitches 9 innings and also hits for the cycle.

I would have given Trax 6 points on Friday, but too many other guys did too many things offensively so I had to cut back. Last night the offense was solid but not overwhelming, so I didn't have to scale back on Pedro's points.

With a 10 point per game cap, there are times that there aren't enough points to go around. Other nights, 10 points is just right.

[nymr83]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: If Pedro comes out for the 8th and gets relieved, and gets 6 Schaefer points... how many does he get if he stays in?

which is why the 6-point cap is dumb. ther are 3-4 occassions a year where the starting pitcher deserves an 8 or 9 (10 if they shut out the other team and hit a solo shot)

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

A starting pitcher can never deserve an 8 or a 9 if the maximum is 6. If players were allowed to get 10 points, then somebody could argue that there are times when somebody deserves an 11 or a 12.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Nymr83 wrote: [10 if they shut out the other team and hit a solo shot

This is the fallacy that results in concluding that a Doc Gooden is worrth 20+ victories to a team. Even a brilliant pitcher pitchiing his best games needs the contributions of teammates. Even a pitcher striking out 27 batters needs a catcher to frame his pitches and to catch them, and even if he hits a solo homrun as his team's only offense, he still needs other batters to tire out the opposing pitcher's arm.

I'd argue that the cap of max points should be lower, not higher.

[nymr83]

but this is all about relative contributions and for that game the pitrcher may deserve a 10. if you were grading each player on a 1-10 scale for each game then everyone else might get 2's or 3's based on something they did but as it is theres only 10 pts to distribute and i think an artificial cap on who they can be given to is biased against starting pitchers.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Nymr83 wrote: ="Johnny Dickshot"]If Pedro comes out for the 8th and gets relieved, and gets 6 Schaefer points... how many does he get if he stays in? which is why the 6-point cap is dumb. ther are 3-4 occassions a year where the starting pitcher deserves an 8 or 9 (10 if they shut out the other team and hit a solo shot)

No, to me it indicates that contributions are over-rewarded under the rules in place.

Like the 5-star movie debate, I think the full Schaefer 6-pack ought to be reserved for truly great performances.

Instead we have instances today where a good-but-not-great Pedro pitching performance will be indistinguishable from a no-hitter with 27 strikeouts.

Meantime, poor Xavier Nady isn't offered a sip of beer despite crushing a double and drawing a walk in 4 trips. Why? Because Pedro is getting all the suds!

[seawolf17]

That's because Pedro is Latino and Nady is white.

(sc=100)

edit: Crap, this started a new page. Now I look like a racist ass.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Hey! Seawolf looks like a racist ass!

[seawolf17]

[elvis]Thank you. Thank you very much.[/elvis]

[Guest GYC]

Is it weird that I've created a spreadsheet of my own Schaefer points?

[Guest Iubitul]

GYC wrote: Is it weird that I've created a spreadsheet of my own Schaefer points?

Among this group? Nope.

[Theoldmole]

What would you have to do among this group to be classified as weird?

[Elster88]

I understand and appreciate that it's very difficult to maintain your spreadsheet, but is it okay to put comments in the individual game threads when the discussion is related only to that one game?

Easier to follow the discussion and for posterity and all.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I'd much prefer if either the comments were confined to this thread, or if you waited until the voting was closed to add comments to the voting thread. I don't want to have votes get lost in a sea of comments.

[Willets Point]

Possible compromise: If you have comments about voting for a particular game, make them in the IGT for that game?

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

That would work too.

[Theoldmole]

Is it too late to change my vote? A little brain freeze there -- I gave Reyes and Hernandez a quarter of a point each for the double play, forgetting that it had been the day before.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

You can still edit your vote.

[Diamond Dad]

Do we need a template into which we should put our points votes -- to facilitate the automated tabulation process???

Sorry if I've messed you up.

What's the official format -- last name -- dash -- points? Tab? Space?

As for how to distribute -- perhaps a review would be good for folks like me. 6 is the max, right? after that, anything goes. Key hits. Key defensive plays. all around good pay may merit points.

What's the smallest incriment allowed? Do you prefer decimals or fractions?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Last name (no first names or nicknames please) followed by points. Last year dashes and colons gave me problems, but now the spreadsheet can ignore them.

If you give fractional votes, please do decimals and not old-fashioned fractions.

Maximum for any one player is 6 points, maximum total number of points allowed for the game is 10.

Although there's been quite a bit of discussion over what merits how many points, it's really up to the discretion of the voter. We all have our different priorities, but when the votes are tallied, we end up with our overall consensus. In other words, don't worry too much about the "not enough love" or "too much love" comments.

There's no smallest number allowed, but realistically, anything lower than a 0.1 is probably going to have virtually no impact on the final tally.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

More about Schaefer voting in the opening post of this thread.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Diamond Dad wrote: Do we need a template into which we should put our points votes -- to facilitate the automated tabulation process???

No - just list your players by last name and the points you are allotting each one.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I won't be around when Sunday's game against Milwaukee ends. Anybody else can feel free to kick of the Schaefer thread once the game ends. Thanks!

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I got mixed up, and started tallying Friday's game (which will actually close tomorrow) when I meant to do Thursday's. In doing so, I noticed two voters went over the limit of 10 points:

Johnny Dickshot awarded 10.2 points, and MFS62 awarded 11. The magic spreadsheet will pro-rate the points down to 10, but if you guys want to edit your votes in the next 24 hours, please feel free to do so.

April 14 voting

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

fixed.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Thanks, Johnny.

For those keeping score, voting for Friday's game will close tomorrow (Tuesday) afternoon.

Voting for Saturday and Sunday will close on Wednesday morning.

On Wednesday morning I'll also post in this thread the season totals through Sunday's game. For those who can't wait, monthly and season totals, as well as raw data that you can play with, are always available here.