SABR

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Hey, the NYC SABR meeting is this Saturday, 1/28 on the 6th floor of the MidManhattan library (41st & 5th, across the from the huge library).

Admission is $5, it starts at 10 am, and don't be late or you'll miss JD's presentation on the '67 Mets (that's right, I was tired of complaining about stinky presentations that others made at these events so I decided to do a stinky one myself).

Warner Wolf will speak, there's an authors panel, player panel, other speakers, etc.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Holy two brains. I just plugged you myself.

Not in a gay way.

[Guest KC]

JD's ears must have been ringing.

I'm coming. No, really ... I am.

[seawolf17]

I always suspected JD and Edgy were the same person.

I will go to one of these events someday. But not this weekend. I know that as soon as I get there, my wife will go into labor. And I would hate to miss the birth for a baseball conference.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Welcome to the website of the Casey Stengel Chapter of SABR! 2006 Casey Stengel Chapter Annual Meeting Saturday, January 28, 2005 =orange]with Keynote Speaker Warner Wolf of WABC Radio's "Curtis & Kuby" Show Registration may be made at door SCHEDULE New York Public Library Mid-Manhattan branch 455 Fifth Avenue 6th floor 10:00 am - 5:00 pm $5 admission fee 10:00 � Registration, Book Donations 10:30 � Johnny Dickshot on Bing Devine with the Mets 10:50 � Steve Krevisky on Ryne Duren 11:10 � Keynote Speaker � Warner Wolf 11:35 � Announcements: Al Blumkin 11:50 � LUNCH BREAK 12:50 � Authors Panel Bob McGee ( Greatest Ballpark Ever: Ebbets Field and the Story of the Brooklyn Dodgers ) Rob Fitts (Remembering Japanese Baseball: An Oral History Of The Game ) Carolyn Trombe ( Dottie Wiltse Collins: Strikeout Queen of the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League ) Steven Goldman ( Mind Game: How the Boston Red Sox Got Smart by Baseball Prospectus Team of Experts) Stanley H. Teitelbaum ( Sports Heroes, Fallen Idols ) 1:55 � OBITS by Al Blumkin 2:00 � Panel: Steve Broege (lefty for St. Louis minors) and Frank Prudenti (1961 NY Yankee Batboy) MIDAFTERNOON BREAK [book raffles] 2:35 � Mike Huber on MLB at West Point 2:55 � Mark Lamster on Spalding's Around-the-World Tour of 1888/9 3:15 � Elliott Hines on Bucky Walters 3:35 � Doug Lyons� Trivia Contest

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Musta missed the plug. I wasn't gonna say nothing till I was reasonably sure I could get through: I have 20 minutes including Q&A, the talking part in practice usually goes ~18 minutes, so I still gotta cut down.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Very cool JD - that's excellent!

[Guest Edgy DC]

My plug must've gone up seconds after your own. I deleted and stuck it here instead.

Congratulations. Will there be PowerPoint?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

There will. KC might recognize some grafix, in fact.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The finals of the CPF Song Parody Invitational should be done as a sing-off at the conference.

[Guest sharpie]

I'd rather forget the finals.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

I will be there, Johnny.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

See if you can recognize where I rip you off.

[Willets Point]

Reading Edgy's post quickly I thought Bret Sabermetric's real name was listed there as one of the presenters. I won't out Bret's real name, but the one I mistook it for his is particularly humorous with the book he wrote.

[seawolf17]

I just realized who's on the 2:00 "panel." Is that the best SABR could do? What, Mike Fitzgerald's gardener wasn't available? Did Billy Wynne's barber have another commitment that he couldn't break?

[Guest KC]

>>>Bret S: I will be there, Johnny.<<<

Note to self, find out if pistol permit is still good in Manhattan.

[Theoldmole]

Would love to be there.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

seawolf17 wrote: I just realized who's on the 2:00 "panel." Is that the best SABR could do? What, Mike Fitzgerald's gardener wasn't available? Did Billy Wynne's barber have another commitment that he couldn't break?

Are you kidding? It's an opportunity to get the guy to spill his guts about how drunk and abusive that team was. You know there are some good stories waiting to be told.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

KC wrote: >>>Bret S: I will be there, Johnny.<<< Note to self, find out if pistol permit is still good in Manhattan.

What, you want to do a couple rounds at the firing range? Lemme know, I'll pack my service revolver.

[Guest KC]

Note to self, borrow bullet proof vest.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Send Faith and Fear a preview and maybe Greg or Jace will find some room to give you some pub.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Hey, cool, JD. Good luck. You going to present it here when you're done presenting it there?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Sure. Nothing very groundbreaking.

[Guest KC]

JD did a great job this morning kicking off the meeting before over a hundred
red-stitched baseball heads at the New York Public Library. His stuff was
thorough, well thought out, and his Powerpoint "slide" presentation was a
pleasant sidebar to his spoken word. He fielded questions with prompt and
knowledgable answers and, frankly, I was impressed.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Ray Liotta who? Ray Liotta you! Nice work, JD.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Wow - he looks really professional there.

WTG JD!

[Guest Iubitul]

KC wrote:

"Ty Cobb? We didn't like the son of a bitch when he was alive, so we told him to stick it!"

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Hey cool. Here more or less is what intended to say, I don't actually remember if I said it all.

To get the true feel, read the following extremely quickly -- can you do it in 17 minutes? -- and insert and "ah" and "um" every 4 words or so. (click was my reminder to inform the guy to change slides, and didn't do me any good, since I more or less memorized this):

]Good moring. Tomorrow marks the 40th anniversary of the start of the most important string of events in the history of the Mets. That�s the day the Atlanta Braves selected USC pitcher Tom Seaver in the annual January draft. As everyone here knows, that selection and subsequent signing would erupt in controversy and ultimately lead in a few months to Tom Seaver being signed by the Mets. My presentation today highlights the Mets executive most responsible for that turn of events, Bing Devine. (click) I�ll give a brief biography of Devine, discuss his role in the Tom Seaver drawing, highlight his one and only season as General Manager in 1967, and share a thought about his departure and legacy. Then some Q&A. (click) Vaughan Palmore Devine was born in St. Louis in 1916 and in fact will celebrate his 90th birthday in March. He attended Washington University where he played baseball and basketball and wrote a sports column for the school paper. After graduating college in 1939 he was hired as an office boy by the Cardinals. He served as a Naval officer during World War II and afterward served as the Cardinals public relations director, and as a general manager for a succession of farm teams, most notably the Rochester Red Wings. (click) In 1955 he returned to St. Louis to serve as an assistant under Frank Lane. Lane was known as �Trader Lane� and had a reputation as a freewheeling and almost reckless dealer, but Devine later would say he learned a lot from him. �I�d learned from Frank Lane that if you don�t do anything, you�ll never do anything wrong. But you�ll never do anything right, either.� Devine took over as Cardinals GM in November of 1957, and through a series of excellent trades built the Cardinals into a pennant contender by 1963 and a World Series champion in 1964. He made trades in that period for Lew Burdette, Dick Groat, Bill White, Julian Javier, Curt Flood and of course, Lou Brock. Personally Devine was known as a shrewd and honest man who took care of his players: In the early 1960s he�d led an effort by the Cardinals to buy a hotel in Florida for players to stay in during spring training rather than abide by segregation. Devine would be named Executive of the Year by the Sporting News in 1963, and again in 1964, which was funny because by the time he�d been notified he�d won he�d been fired for two months and was already working for the Mets. (click) His firing by the Cardinals, in August of 1964, was a real shock to Devine and all of baseball, and seemed to come as a result of the impatience of Gussie Busch and the influence from Branch Rickey, who was brought on as a senior advisor and didn�t see eye to eye with Devine. Devine was hired by the Mets just over a month later, and in that way, was a lot like the man he would assist, and eventually, replace � George Weiss. Weiss was also brokenhearted after being unceremoniously whacked by a pennant-winning team, the 1960 Yankees. It would be one of the few things they had in common. Devine would serve as an assistant to Weiss through the end of Weiss� contract in 1966, though after a year, it seemed Devine was doing the majority of the dealing and going to Weiss for approval. That�s certainly how it went with Tom Seaver. (click) The January draft had a regular round for amatuers a special round for guys who were previously drafted but did not sign � Seaver was in that group, having been selected by the Dodgers in the 10th round of the 1965 June draft, and turning down a reported $2000 bounus offer. What�s interesting is that unlike the regular phase of the draft, where picking order was determined by reverse order of standings, the special draft was by lottery and Atlanta drew a short straw: They picked last. So it�s a real credit to the Braves scouts to have chosen Seaver while so many others passed him by, including the Mets, who wasted their first-round pick on an outfielder from Southern Methodist University named James Taylor who was never heard from again. Seaver signed a contract with the Braves on Feb. 24. But USC by then had already played two games, and when the USC athletic director informed commissioner Eckert that violated the agreement between colleges and baseball governing the draft, Eckert voided the deal. Seaver returned to USC only to be informed that by having signed a contract, even a voided one, made him inelegible to resume playing there. This brought pressure back on Eckert, whose solution was a lottery for any team willing to match the Braves� bonus offer, which was 45,000 plus incentives and a tuition bonus bringing it to 53,500. A pretty strong bonus in those days but not a great one. Devine saw this as an opportunity for the Mets but first had to convince Weiss to write a check. Not an easy thing to do. Weiss was a rather conservative dealer who hated to part with money or resources unless he was certain he was getting back more than he gave. If he traded one guy, he wanted back two. If he bought a player, he�d negotiate to pay full retail only if certain conditions were met. About Seaver, he told Devine �We don�t know if he�s worth that kind of money.� He had a point. While it was reported that the Mets� scout in Los Angeles �didn�t like� Seaver, I don�t think that�s true: They liked him, but in scouting lingo, they liked him $8,000, not $45,000. Devine on the other hand seemed to understand that for the Mets to really dig out of the poverty, they might have to take some chances, and importantly, consider whether their reports were accurate. Devine, with help from Joe McDonald in the Met front office, worked Weiss hard � also during this period, they got a good report from a scout who saw Seaver work out with the Indians and that went into the argument too. Weiss gave his blessing to entering the drawing just days before it took place on April 3. Devine later theorized the only reason he did was that his sales pitch was so strong, Weiss figured there would be 10 or 12 teams participating, and that the Mets chances of being selected would be poor anyway. He hadn�t realized it would ultimately be a 1 in 3 chance, which is why when Devine learned the Mets won the rights to Seaver his first reaction was �great,� and then �uh-oh, I�m in trouble.� The 1966 Mets finally finished out of last place, Weiss retired as expected, and Devine was named Mets general manager on Nov. 12, 1966. He�d go on to build what I�d consider to be the ultimate transition team, the 1967 Mets. (click) Some stats on that team: 54 players ran through the roster (55 if you count Nolan Ryan, who was called up in September but did not appear in a game). The group included 27 position players and 27 pitchers; nine different players would log time at second base 11 men would play third base. Twenty different pitchers would make at least one start. There would also be two different managers. It was the largest National League team ever, breaking the record of 53 by the 1944 Dodgers and the second most players ever since the 1915 Philadelphia Athletics employed 56 men. It would be the largest roster in all of baseball for 29 years and is still the biggest in Mets history. Other stats I should mention: The 1967 Mets were bad: They went backwards in the standings, losing 101 games, mostly as a result of scoring 89 fewer runs than the year before. It would be their losingest season for the next 26 years, and difficult to imagine how bad they might have been were it not for a rookie of the year season from Tom Seaver. (click) By my count, Devine made 25 trades in the 13 months he was in charge of the Mets, not including drafts or deals that did not involve Major League players. The deals can more or less be broken into 4 buckets: There was the actual assembly of the 67 team, which went from November until June. When the team was buried in the standings by July, Devine began disassembling it, selling off guys to contenders. In August and September, he rebuilt, adding 17 new players as a result of waiver claims and minor-league callups. Finally, Devine harvested some of his moves after the year. I�ll have time only to highlight a few examples from each category: (click) His first big trade, Nov. 29 sent Ron Hunt and Jim Hickman to Los Angeles for Tommy Davis and Derrell Griffith. This deal seemed to announce there�d be no sacred cows: Hunt at the time of this deal, was the most popular Met player, and probably the greatest Met of all time, and Hickman was the last remaining Major Leaguer from the 1961 expansion draft. Davis was a former batting champion coming off a knee injury, and in �67 really revived his career: He was by far the Mets� best hitter that year, leading the team in virtually every statistical category. A week later, Devine traded Dennis Ribant and Gary Kolb to the Pirates for Don Cardwell and minor league outfielder Don Bosch. Bosch was the player the Mets wanted: He was supposed to be the center fielder and leadoff hitter the Mets always needed, but he turned out a lot like all the others � a complete bust, and one of the reasons the Mets struggled so badly in 1967. But Cardwell would be the best of all 4 players in that deal, and one of the steadiest pitchers on the Mets for the next 3 years. In February, Devine purchased Ron Taylor, a former Cardinal who�d been injured, demoted and virtually left for dead by the Astros: He�d go on to anchor the Met bullpen for the next 4 years. On May 10, Devine would trade excess outfielder Larry Elliot and $50,000 for Ed Charles, the veteran Kansas City third baseman. Charles was a slight upgrade at third base and importantly, made Ken Boyer expendable. Boyer would be traded to the White Sox in July in the next phase of Devine�s plan, eventually bringing back J.C. Martin. (click) In August and September, Devine hit the waiver wires and made 14 September call-ups, conducting what essentially was an in-season tryout camp: This activity would bring the Mets some of the most obscure players in history like Joe Moock, Joe Grzenda and Al Schmelz, but also produced some keepers like Cal Koonce, bought on waivers from the Cubs, and broke in rookies like Jerry Koosman, Amos Otis, and Ken Boswell. After the season, Devine was quick to realize value on what investments he�d made that had appreciated: Bob Johnson, a journeyman utility player purchased in May from the Orioles and who inexplicably hit .348, was flipped to Cincinnati for Art Shamsky. In December, Devine parlayed Tommy Davis� excellent season in a trade for Tommie Agee and Al Weis. (click) Devine also had some decisions to make concerning the Mets� leadership in 1967. Before the season he promoted a young third base coach Whitey Herzog to a front office position for the first time. Herzog oversaw amatuer scouting and led drafts during �67 that would produce Ken Singleton, Dave Schneck, Jon Matlack, Rod Gaspar and Gary Gentry. There was also a manager to replace after Wes Westrum resigned late in the year when it was clear a contract offer from Devine was not forthcoming. However, arranging the unusual trade with Washington for Gil Hodges was not Devine�s idea, but rather the will of the board of directors: Some reporters speculated Devine left the Mets in December because he was unhappy at not having the chance to name a manager: I don�t think that�s true, but we do that left to his own devices, Devine probably wouldn�t have named Hodges, mainly because he was under contract to Washington. He probably would have considered Harry Walker, and may have named Whitey Herzog. Why did he leave? Simply, he was offered his old job back as Cardinals GM and missed his family in St. Louis � he would often commute there on weekends. There was one unfinished piece of business before he left, which was the Agee-Davis trade: The Mets and White Sox had agreed in principal but Mets chairman Donald Grant, objected to Devine�s inclusion of Don Shaw on the Mets part. Shortly after Devine left, his successor, Johnny Murphy, completed the deal by replacing Shaw with Billy Wynne. It�s interesting to note that this is one of the first instances of Grant�s meddling with the creation of the Mets, but it certainly wouldn�t be the last time. (click) Perhaps the ultimate testament to Devine�s strenuous work with the 1967 Mets was how easy he�d make it for his successor. Of the 32 players on the team that would win the 1969 World Series, 22 of them were acquired by Weiss either directly or as an assisstant to Weiss, and just two players of significance � Wayne Garrett and Donn Clendennon � would need to be added after his departure. I�ll close by saying that in brief reign marked by courage and chaos, Bing Devine left the Mets in better shape than when he found them. Now I�d be happy to take any questions.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Upload the slide show, man.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Great job. There's some errata in there like missing words and calling Devine "Weiss" once near the end. I hope you caught them as you were reading.

Here's my question: Was there the notion in place as he was assembling this team (that would get Johnny Murphy into the Mets Hall of Fame) that they were building a star-studded pitching rotation with Seaver, Ryan, Gentry, Koosman, and Cardwell all in the system, or did that not come until after Koosman's rookie season made it clear?