Strat

[Guest Edgy DC]

Every once in a while a new "In Praise of Strat-o-Matic" story comes out.

This is a nice biographical one, despite the clichéd lead.

[Zvon]

you never played Gill Hodges Pennant fever Edge?

[Frayed Knot]

I had that one.
Don't remember too much about it though.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Half of me is certain that's a Zvon Photoshop specialty.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

My girlfriend's family gave me Strat-O-Matic 1998. I played Mets v. Braves in my first game. Greg MAddux pitched a 1-hit shutout. I haven't played since.

[seawolf17]

I love Strat-O-Matic, but I almost never play it (because my wife thinks it's boring). I bought the All-Star version they came out with a few years ago for five bucks, and since then, I've bought about twenty random teams on eBay. I'll just play little one-off games; I don't have the time nor the energy to replay seasons. I don't usually add all the park effects either.

Anyone remember Statis Pro? (I think that's what it was called.) Played that a lot as a kid in the mid-80s. Similar to SOM, but with way smaller player cards.

[Zvon]

="Edgy DC"]Half of me is certain that's a Zvon Photoshop specialty.

lol.
No..it was an actual game.
When I got into baseball and was looking for a game, Id heard about Strat0matic and when I went lookin for it, I saw the Gil game.

It was very similar, but I dont think as complex as Strat (from what Ive heard).

But you had dice and charts and that board.
Results were unique to that game tho, I believe.

I remember Id roll ...the chart would say something like : "Grasscutter up the middle."
Then my brother would roll to see the result.

I googled the game name and found that pic. I was surprised to find a pic.

Im sure I mentioned my brothers and I got much more into a game called ALL STAR BASEBALL, a spinner game, which was a most simple game.
But hey!
Im a simple guy.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

In the summer of 1967, otherwise known as the summer of love, I played Strat until my fingernails bled. I mixed up the 1966 cards, ranked the players by position, held a draft for eight cities that (then) lacked a MLB franchise--New Orleans, Miami, Buffalo, Denver, Memphis, Seattle, San Diego and Toronto--and drafted players according to a peculiar and individual philosophy. As I recall, Miami wanted pitching, and drafted Koufax, Bunning and I forget who the other two pitchers were. One of them was Claude Osteen. It was a hell of a staff. New Orleans went for sluggers, Toronto went for defense, someone went for basestealers--it was crazy. I kept meticulous records, most of which I have around here somewhere, and was widely considered the least socialized, most-likely- to-snap-and-kill-people-someday kind of kid around.

I lost my virginity five years later, but I had already expressed the ultimate in pleasure, so it was no big deal.

[Zvon]

WOW!
I found a pic.
There were alot of newer versions on Google, but this is the exact game I owned.

[Zvon]

There would be actual arguments when the pointer landed on a line.

"HOMER!".
"NO WAY! thats on the line!."

So what we did was get a table lamp, keep it above the spinner, and the shadow that was actually cast on the face of the card was considered the umpire.
And we still had arguments. Another brother would be called into the room to look at the shadow of the pointer and make the call.

[Zvon]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: I kept meticulous records, most of which I have around here somewhere, and was widely considered the least socialized, most-likely- to-snap-and-kill-people-someday kind of kid around. I lost my virginity five years later, but I had already expressed the ultimate in pleasure, so it was no big deal.

lmao.

My brothers and I kept 162 game scorebooks.
I think we did it for around 3 years, like that.
A draft.
Kept track of all the usual catagory leaders.

I knew Rod Carew was a good hitter, but he was such a good hitter in this game that he became a favorite of mine in real life too.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1973-Strat-O-Matic-New-York-Mets-WS-Runner-up-Original_W0QQitemZ8739368823QQcategoryZ1180QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Pretty cool, the Original cards of the '73 team.

[nymr83]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: I lost my virginity five years later, but I had already expressed the ultimate in pleasure, so it was no big deal.

LMAO

what was everyone else's moment like that, the one they won't admit to their significant other means more than sex? i'm with Pratt's ball goin over the fence....i was 16 and it was my first playoff game.

[Guest Matt Murdock, Esq.]

i inherited my brother's Strat game in 69, and later got All-Star. Loved the round discs in the spinner.

But in 1974, I got into a league in HS, where we played Sports Illustrated BB for an entire school year. We were able to use 1 team's pitching staff and another team's hitters. All I remember is I had the 71 Mets pitchers, and Tom Terrific's amazin season got me to the finals. I remember having Dave Cash and Nate Colbert, so that must've been... what... the Padres? the Tigers? Whatever it was, it wasn't enough. I got kilt by a Cal Angels-led team. Nolan Ryan shoved the bat up Colbert's ass.

A few years later i read the book THE UNIVERSAL BASEBALL ASSOCIATION, HENRY J. WAUGH, PROPRIETOR, and i got scared straight. Didn't touch another stat game until i started playing in a Yahoo Fantasy League a few years ago. I'm hooked agin.

Damn baseball stats.

They're just so damn beautiful.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

I loved Coover's book, read it for the first time in 20 years this month, and realized for the first time that his protagonist, who rules omnipotently over his made-up baseball-centric universe, is named Yahweh ("J. H. Waugh.")

[Guest Edgy DC]

The ambiguity of the the line killed me with All-Star. Couldn't do it.

My best friend of the time --- who has also shown up briefly in this space for a spate of punk posting --- was also a notorious cheater.

Strat was a different beast altogether. No ambiguity in the dice. I'd be playing it now if I could find peeps, besides those on the internet, that I could admit my interests to. The one acquaintance I have who has fessed up actually takes weekend trips away from his wife and daughter to hold tournaments/drafts/playoffs --- Strat Baseball, Strat Football, War-Gaming.

No thanks. I felt like one of those seventies denizens of Nashville, who didn't consider themselves addicted to cocaine as long as they didn't do as much coke as Larry Gatlin.

"You still like baseball dice games, as an adult?"

"Well, yeah, what of it? It's no big deal."

"Dude, you're nuts."

"I'm not nuts."

"How is that not nuts?"

"Well, I don't fly off to Cincinnati to have a draft over a weekend with a bunch of guys I've met online, like that guy."

"No but you drive up to New York to go to a barbeque restaurant with people you've met online."

"Shut up."

"Dude, a barbeque restaurant... and you're a vegetarian."

"SHUT UP!"

[Guest cleonjones11]

Extra Innings came out in 1970 and disclosed the formula for creating your own teams. Jeff Sagarin did the ERA chart and was listed on bio as MIT 1970

I called him a few years back..he was in a Michigan phonebook and I asked where I get get another copy.

EI was bought by BLM of Minnesota who owned Negamco which produced their own games with cards. The boxing and hockey were excellent.

With Strat I played the national anthem ofrom a cassette and wore those cards out. Then came fantasy..Oh well...

Statis pro was too complicated for me..

[nymr83]

]No ambiguity in the dice

years of AD&D has told me otherwise...
ROLL ON THE TABLE YOU *$#@$*@($ !!!!

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

LMAO Edgy.

I really enjoyed the food (and the company) when my wife and I met some of the gang at Virgil's. Definitely not the best restaurant choice for a vegetarian.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

We were in the City yesterday, and we drove by Virgil's. MK specifically commented that now he's a real Crane Pooler because he has eaten there (that was in November, the day we saw Spamalot).

FWIW, he stuck with the grilled cheese sandwich. But he loved the place all the same.

[MFS62]

I was wondering why you posted to a strat thread, Scarlett. (Saw your name there when I joined the page)
Didn't think you had ever played strat.

My friend and I made up our own spinner type game, made up eight teams (our league had Toronto, too. Did you call yours the Argos, Bret?) and played a 160 game schedule.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

My next door neighbor as a kid had a dice & card game - sort of a kiddie version of Strat - called 'Challenge the Yankees' (he was a MFY fan).
It was made in the waning era of the great early '60s NYY stretch - although by the time we were playing it it was late-'60s while dem Yanx were in da tank.
But it had cards for each of that era's Yanx: Mantle, Pepitone, Howard, etc, and a set for that eras All-Stars: Aaron, Mays, Clemente et al. The idea, I guess, was that it would take a team full a All Stars to even give the Yanx a good game.
The combos were based just on a 2-dice - and therefore 2-12 range - and attempted to approximate the hitters real stats (no pitching skills were considered). Like I said, kind of a very simplified Strat. The cool part was that it also included a set of blank cards for you to make your own players. Naturally, that set became my team and got filled in with the '69 Mets. I remember giving Cleon the "Superstar" card; that was the only one where a "4" was a HR, on all others the HR were 2s, 3s, 11s & 12s (or occasionally none at all).
Following the roll you picked a card to tell you what happened: did the "Ground Out" result in a DP?, did the runners advance 1 or 2 bases on a single?, etc., and you would move the pegs around the board appropriately. The dreaded and/or hoped for card - depending on whether you were at bat or not - was the one where the OFer 'DROPPED THE FLY BALL - ALL RUNNERS ADVANCE TWO BASES'. Keeping track of whether that one was close to coming up to the top of the pile again was always a major source of tension.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

I owned that stupid game too.

Dissatisfaction with that, and even Strat, made me devote six months or more out of my life (I was unemployed, fresh out of grad school) inventing, refining and trying to market an elaborate board game of my own invention called "3&2" (or sometimes "Full Count") which strove for greater statistical accuracy but did demand that you take about five steps to figure out what each PBF result was. They were simple steps, mostly adding or subtracting, and after a while I could figure each one out in uinder 20 seconds, after which I'd consult a chart (that eventually I had memorized), so that I could play a game in under forty minutes (newbies often took an hour an a half).

When this idea was starting to take shape, however, the Computer revolution happened, and I realized that no one was going to market a completely uncomputerized board game ever again. I had actually used computers devising the game (one of my Master's degree colleagues in creative writing had been a computer studies major in college, and worked out fine charts for me) and then I got a job offer, and "3&2" sits in the top of my closet. I last played a game (between the 1969 Mets and 1969 Orioles) with my daughters who seemed to like it in their more enthusiastic years.

[smg58]

I played a 40-game season with my brother and a friend of mine that actually survived through the playoffs (in which my 1984 Tigers overcame a mediocre regular season to kick some serious playoff butt). Otherwise I played a handful of games here and there (including with PatchyFogg), but something always kept getting in the way of seeing a season through from start to finish.

[Theoldmole]

My first game was APBA, then on to Strat, and now Diamond Mind.

[MFS62]

Here's something from a strat website that my friend pointed out to me.

Later

************************************************************
on strat website:

There has been a changing of the guard in the world of Strat-O-Matic. It has been gradual and subtle, but nevertheless true diehards notice. I helped open up a debate about defensive ratings when in 2001 Jim Edmonds received one of his many Gold Glove awards. There was no major debate about his ability and reputation as a solid centerfielder, however, if he, as the Gold Glove winner, sets the benchmark for excellence in fielding, than how do you rate players that are statistically superior to the winner of such an award?



Strat-O-Matic leads the way in attempting to let the numbers and near unbiased evaluators determine how to rate a player. And I applaud them for getting away from the fashion show and the politics. Most Gold Glove winners are excellent defenders overall, however, they can also gain points by being offensively dominant, acrobatic, popular, or just because they are the incumbent. Elements that may improve ticket sales, but do not have an impact on whether a player will actually make a play.



Unfortunately, the Gold Glove award has taken some credibility hits over the years, especially with Rafael Palmeiro winning one year where he played less than 30 games at the position where he won. In the year that I raised the question about the Gold Glove award, I had attained over 100 more putouts in the outfield than the Gold Glove winner. That is equivalent to sitting out one-third of the season and still having the same amount of clean catches. Yet he had to get the “1” rating and I had to take my “2.”


Of course, that is not everything that defense is about. Good decisions, intimidating arm strength, intelligent positioning, and stadium effect knowledge aren’t easy to measure, but they should play a role in what constitutes “good” defense. A player could be playing for a team that has bad pitching or for a “fly ball” pitching team that gives a defender more opportunities in the field, but it is debatable whether that can account for huge statistical gaps between a Gold Glove winner and any other player at the same position. In the case of Jerry Hairston Jr. one year, there was no one even remotely close to him in assists from second base. (Roberto Alomar cleanly beat him out in the Gold Glove) Is the winning the Gold Glove enough to justify a better rating?



Nevertheless, a former teammate of mine, and friend, Bobby Abreu won the Gold Glove award. Bobby had been highly criticized, up until this past year, for lack of focus on his defense. In playing with him in 2004, he had made great strides in every area of defense, but it is near impossible to go from a rated “4” defender to a gold glove winning “1” in a year. Defense is just as much instinct as it is skills, and if a player can’t gauge how far away from the wall he is, or a player has little sense of spacing between himself and a surrounding teammate, then he generally will not wake up with those skills. (Certainly hard to do in a year). We can take groundballs until we pass out, but 99.9999% of us will not wake up and become Ozzie Smith. Not even my favorite shortstop, Jimmy Rollins.



So, I hope the Strat-O-Matic community accepts this change. It was time to be bold in saying that defense is not to be voted in. Strat-O-Matic is trying to set that statistical tone.



Doug Glanville

Philadelphia Phillies (1998-2002, 2004)

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's always nice to see players contributing on the research end.

[nymr83]

its nice to see a player calling the gold glove award bullshit...which it is.

[Guest vtmet]

="Zvon"]WOW! I found a pic. There were alot of newer versions on Google, but this is the exact game I owned.

I remember that game from when I was about 10-14 years old...I didn't have it but I played it over my friends house alot...had a lot of AL players that don't really remember, a bunch of Johnsons, Wilbur Wood, both Robinsons...didn't really follow the AL back then other than the A's/Royals/Yanks, so my friend had the advantage on which AL players to pick...

[Guest vtmet]

by the way...that field is the old Cosmiskey Park, right?