Questions for Frank Thomas

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mr. Thomas, as I read, I'm getting the idea you might have made more money had you stayed on the priesthood track.

[A Boy Named Seo]

I'll never read the name John Wockenfuss again without thinking of Wide's Tigers preview a few years ago. The Spring Training Capsules, or whatever they're called, are probably coming up again soon.

This thread has been an absolute pleasure to read. Thanks for participating, Mr. Thomas. I'll certainly be picking the book up.

[Theoldmole]

Looks like Barry was drafted, but never made it. Probably picked up some contacts, tho

[Guest cleonjones11]

You are now thine enemy...turn in your baseball card..

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

So who exactly is CJ declaring war upon?

[Frayed Knot]

The Triple Alliance of Sanity, Logic, and Reason..

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

I'm almost done reading Kiss It Goodbye. It's interesting re-reading this thread after reading the book. As you can gather from Mr. Thomas' thoughtful answers in this thread, he is devoted to detail.

Mr. Thomas - if you're still following this thread, I have some follow-up questions. You must keep a thorough scrapbook collection of your career - how is it organized? Do you have any plans for it to be on public display?

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Whenever this thread runs it's course it needs to be made a member of the featured archives. I hope that it will contain several more visits from our gracioous guest, Frank Thomas.

Kiss It Goodbye is next up on my reading list.

[Guest FrankThomas]

MFS62 wrote: Frank, Thank you very much for spending the time to write that detailed answer to my questions. Your description of Branch Rickey was in keeping the reputation he had about player salary negotiations while he was in Brooklyn. And I agree that your career numbers were dramatically hurt when they took down the inside fence at Forbes Field. I wasn't too sure when they had removed it. Wishing you and yours a happy and healthy New Year. Later

Thanks for having me here. I wasn't overly concerned about the drop-off that my home run totals would take when they tore down Greenberg Gardens, especially after Rickey assured me that it would not be held against me. But then he held it against me anyway. The only major career number that I would have liked to achieve was 300 home runs. I would have easily reached it had Greenberg Gardens never been removed, but I think I still had a good chance to get it at the end of my career had I not been somewhat blacklisted by my fight with Richie Allen.

[Guest FrankThomas]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Wow! Another GM with a reputation for ferocity at contract time was George Weiss. I imagine he must have treated you fairly well after 1962 (at least he should have), but what about 1963? I know some of your Met teammates (Throneberry & Woodling) had their troubles with Weiss and both were soon gone.

One would think that Weiss would treat me "fairly well" after the year I had with the Mets in 1962. I thought he would, too, so I asked for a raise prior to the 1963 season. Weiss wanted me to sign for the same salary I had made in 1962, pointing out that I had tailed off at the end of 1962. I told him it was due to a badly pulled groin muscle, an injury I played with despite the fact that I probably should have sat. I stayed in there to help the team, though. It turned out to be a sports hernia that I had operated on following the 1962 season. Weiss didn't care, though. We had a war of words in the papers as I held out. I told the writers my side of the story and Weiss told the press that they were paying me all I deserved -- "and probably more." Weiss, like most of the general managers I had to deal with, was a pup out of Rickey. He could be very nasty, even telling me that I couldn't possibly be as good as I claimed because no team had kept me for more than one season since I had left Pittsburgh. I finally had to go to Casey. I told him that Weiss wouldn't give me a raise, so Casey told me to sit tight. I finally heard from Weiss about the first week of March, at which point he reluctantly signed me for a small raise. Weiss got his money back in 1964, though, when he slashed my salary after my numbers dropped off in 1963, mostly due to injuries. He had all the leverage that in 64, so I had no choice to sign without much dickering.

[Guest FrankThomas]

Edgy DC wrote: Cool fact: Thomas hit the last homer at the Polo Grounds during the Giants tenure there and hit the first one when the park was re-opened as the Mets' home.

For the record, I did homer in the last Giants game at the Polo Grounds in 1957, but I was not the last player to homer in that game. My teammate, Johnny Powers, closed out the Giants' era of the Polo Grounds with a 9th-inning shot into the rightfield seats. But you're right -- I was the first player to homer in the newly re-opened Polo Grounds during the Mets' brief run there.

[Guest FrankThomas]

Frayed Knot wrote: Well Frank, even if you had your differences with Ralph Kiner, the one thing you have in common is your opinion of Branch Rickey. Ralph (who still does NY Met TV on a limited basis (as he did while you were playing here) repeats similar stories about dealing with Rickey. The line he often uses is that Rickey controlled all the money and all the players ... and did everything he could to keep the two apart. Anyway, thanks so much for taking the time to do these chats with us. You've obviously put a lot of thought into your answers which leads me to believe that your book will be a good read. I hadn't heard about it prior to this but now it's on my list of things to complete before the winter is out.

Thanks for the kind words, it's been my pleasure to take part in your forum. The Kiner quote you mention about Rickey is a great way of summing up Rickey's methods.

[Guest FrankThomas]

Zvon wrote: Yes, Ive heard Kiner tell the same stories of how he was shortchanged and given the runaround contract wise with the Pirates. And mistreated. Thank you for sharing that candid and detailed response Mr Thomas. You have my utmost respect.

Thanks -- I've enjoyed reminiscing here.

[Guest FrankThomas]

TheOldMole wrote: Dick Young's nickname for Rickey was "El Cheapo." I just ordered Frank's book.

"El Cheapo" is a truly classic creation. I "borrowed" it on a couple of occasions in my book. Thanks for ordering -- I hope you enjoy reading it.

[Guest FrankThomas]

ScarletKnight41 wrote: I just ordered my copy.

Thank you very much -- read it in good health!

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nice to hear from you again.

[Guest FrankThomas]

KC wrote: Re-reading the thread this morning, great stuff. If we can get more Mets to do a Q & A (which I'm sure we will), Frank's detail and gentlemanlike posts will be hard to top. Thanks again, and best for 2006 from The CPF.

You're welcome. I'm glad you're enjoying the "thread".

[Guest FrankThomas]

TheOldMole wrote: Found and ordered from the Philadelphia Athletics site.

Thanks -- and my friend Ernie at the Philadelphia A's store thanks you, too.

[Guest FrankThomas]

TheOldMole wrote: Rickey was a pioneer SABRmetrician -- I remember an article he wrote in Life explaining why batting average was an outmoded statistic and we needed to concentrate on things like OBP. It makes perfect sense that he'd do it to have more negative stats to concentrate on in contract negotiations. Once again. Frank Thomas...wotta guy!

Thanks again.

[Guest FrankThomas]

MFS62 wrote: ="TheOldMole"]Rickey was a pioneer SABRmetrician -- I remember an article he wrote in Life explaining why batting average was an outmoded statistic and we needed to concentrate on things like OBP. It makes perfect sense that he'd do it to have more negative stats to concentrate on in contract negotiations. He took note of OBP? Then those early contract negotiations with Roberto Clemente must have been fun. Roberto had a total of 100 BB in his first five major league seasons. That's probably the only thing Rickey had to use against him in those negotiations. His agent must have countered by asking why Rickey took him in the Rule V draft in the first place. Wish I was the proverbial fly on the wall when those negotiations were taking place. Or did players even have agents in those days? Later

I played through 1966 and I never had an agent. To the best of my recollection, I don't remember anyone ever having an agent during the period in which I played. I could be wrong here, but I don't remember agents coming into play until the Andy Messersmith case.

[Guest FrankThomas]

Edgy DC wrote: Mr. Thomas, as I read, I'm getting the idea you might have made more money had you stayed on the priesthood track.

That's funny. One of my sons, incidentally, picked up where I left off and became a priest.

[Guest FrankThomas]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: I'll never read the name John Wockenfuss again without thinking of Wide's Tigers preview a few years ago. The Spring Training Capsules, or whatever they're called, are probably coming up again soon. This thread has been an absolute pleasure to read. Thanks for participating, Mr. Thomas. I'll certainly be picking the book up.

Thanks very much. I've enjoyed recollecting the things we've discussed here, and I hope I can get back soon. There's a chance that I'll be doing a book signing or two at Shea Stadium this summer at a Mets game, and If it happens I'll let all of you guys at the Ultimate Mets Database know about it. Thanks again.

[Zvon]

="Edgy DC"]Nice to see hear from you again.

I echo edge.
Heres that card pic without the clutter.

[Zvon]

Dont ask coobie........
Im sure they are wearing underwear.
Well,....almost positive.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Mr. Thomas--

In KISS IT GOODBYE, you mention that you were selected to an All-Ugly team in the early 1950s, and late in your career you were nicknamed "Lurch" (after Ted Cassidy's Frankenstein-like character on "The Addams Family"), and in between some players referrred to you as "The Big Donkey."

Yet in every photograph, you appear to be a perfectly normal-looking or even a ruggedly handsome young man.

Why do you suppose you came in for so much of this teasing treatment? Unless you're unusualy photogenic, and are actually hideous when a camera isn't being pointed in your direction, I can only conclude that perhaps you liked to dish out some kidding yourself and this was just a way for others to retort with some insulting comment?

Did you in fact do more than your share of bench-jockeying, and verbal bantering with your fellow players? Given your acknowledgment of Richie Allen's understandable difficulty in seeing your "Muhammad Clay" remarks as banter among friends, did the level of clubhouse bantering go well beyond today's acceptable levels of good taste, typically? Do you remember any incidents of kidding and teasing that went too far for your own tastes (or for your own sensibilities today)?

I've purchased my copy of KISS IT GOODBYE through the PHiladelphia A's website as well, and it's a terrific book. For those of you who haven't yet, it came with a copy of the 1954 Philadelphia A's home schedule, backed by an illustration of Connie Mack.

[Guest cooby]

Zvon wrote: [ Dont ask coobie........ Im sure they are wearing underwear. Well,....almost positive.

Oh, my...

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

cooby wrote: ="Zvon"][ Dont ask coobie........ Im sure they are wearing underwear. Well,....almost positive. Oh, my...

caption (I think) is l. to r.:

Rod Kanehl, Jim Hickman, Gil Hodges, FT, Charley Neal.

No?

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: I've purchased my copy of KISS IT GOODBYE through the PHiladelphia A's website as well, and it's a terrific book. For those of you who haven't yet, it came with a copy of the 1954 Philadelphia A's home schedule, backed by an illustration of Connie Mack.

Mine didn't

[Zvon]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: caption (I think) is l. to r.: Rod Kanehl, Jim Hickman, Gil Hodges, FT, Charley Neal. No?

Yepper.
And I thought it ironic that Hot-Rod kept his pants on.

And excuse me, Mr. Thomas, but Im like the board jester.
.....Just playin my part.

[Guest cooby]

Hello, Mr. Thomas, from a fellow Pennsylvanian...
Though I am a resident of the wilds of central PA, I've been a Mets fan for most of my life, though I must admit, my husband favors the Pirates

I don't really have any questions for you but I want to tell you how much I am enjoying your book and my favorite part is not about baseball at all, but the stories and pictures of your beautiful family.
The loss of your daughter Sharon was a terrible tragedy for your family, and I want to extend my sympathy.
Maybe it's because I am a mom myself, but the pictures and accounts of your children and wife are very heartwarming to me.

God bless you all.