Benson Trade Rumor Thread (Julio? Vazquez? Pudge?)

[Frayed Knot]

]not that it means a whole lot but Benson seems to like being a Mets a lot.

Fans probably put too much stock in this sort of thing but I do believe it's got to hurt a team in the long run if they develop a trend where they romance and sign players to long-term contracts only to reverse their thinking just a year into the deal. Seems to me that word will get around the player grapevine that these people (front office) aren't to be taken at their word.


FWIW; Buster Olney - on FAN at lunchtime - doesn't put much stock in this rumor.

[Elster88]

If Buster's right, then you gotta love the paper saying it's close to being done. Damn, those reporters are seriously terrified about losing their careers and reputations.

I seriously doubt Omar is that dumb to consider such a trade. We'll see.

[Elster88]

An excellent point from Buster:

]And while Benson is 31 years old, Pedro Martinez is 34, Steve Trachsel is 35, and Tom Glavine is 39. I'd keep Benson. He's never reached the potential that others saw in him, but when healthy, he's decent.

[nymr83]

duan wrote: Secondly Jorge Julio's been postively mediocre except for ONE year. ONE FREAKIN' YEAR. So you're giving up a decent 3/4 starter (not great, I'm not suggesting that for a minute) for a guy who's likely to be the 5/6th man in the pen? fookin' stoopid that'd be.

Kris Benson has never been better than mediocre either. the deal is dumb because a mediocre starter has greater value than a mediocre reliever.

[Elster88]

I think everyone here agrees with you, Nymr.

[nymr83]

Elster88 wrote: I think everyone here agrees with you, Nymr.

that would be a first i believe.
would anyone like to come out in favor of this trade?

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I guess the Baltimore players would be in favor. They could try to entice Kris to cheat on his wife.

[Guest Edgy DC]

"Benson for Julio is close to dumb"

[Guest Rotblatt]

So most papers have this deal as dead, although the Post says that it was actually Julio plus an unnamed prospect.

A couple say that the deal was ready to go, then after hearing about it, other GM's said they would give up more for Benson, so Minaya yanked it back.

Some possibilities mentioned:
Vazquez for Benson (love it)
Pudge for Benson (meh. .290 OBP last year)
Julio + prospect for Benson (maybe)

[Guest sharpie]

I could live with any of the possibilities that Rotblatt just mentioned. Yes, Pudge had a .290 OBP last year, but it was .383 the year before and .343 for his career. He's worth Kris Benson.

As to the third one, depends on the prospect.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Benson for Vazquez would be be nice. However, it's more likely to be something like Benson and Bannister for Vazquez (the rumor thrown out when Vaz first filed his demand). The question is, do you think Bannister is worth the difference in talent between the 2 pitchers, while keeping in mind we gave up Petit already and lost our 1st pick to the Phillies. I wouldnt mind the deal.

[Guest Rotblatt]

OlerudOwned wrote: Benson for Vazquez would be be nice. However, it's more likely to be something like Benson and Bannister for Vazquez (the rumor thrown out when Vaz first filed his demand). The question is, do you think Bannister is worth the difference in talent between the 2 pitchers, while keeping in mind we gave up Petit already and lost our 1st pick to the Phillies. I wouldnt mind the deal.

Yup. I still like that deal. Vazquez & younger and has more upside and isn't that much more expensive, since the Yankees are (still) paying a lot of his contract.

[Centerfield]

The News says this deal is not likely:

Although there were preliminary conversations between the Mets and Orioles about a deal that would send Benson to Baltimore for reliever Jorge Julio, it now appears several other teams could offer a more attractive package in exchange for the Mets righthander, and Minaya is expected to gauge his best move next week.

[Elster88]

I'm still missing something. Why is there a big push to trade Benson?

[Centerfield]

According to the article, to clear salary for Manny.

[nymr83]

oh...in that case...BOOOOOO

[Guest Rotblatt]

Rosenthal from Fox:

]The Mets, meanwhile, won't trade right-hander Kris Benson to the Orioles unless they receive both reliever Jorge Julio and a mid-level prospect in return. ...

Good. That makes a lot more sense to me. If we're getting back a decent OF or LHSP prospect, I'd be okay with the deal.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5132718

[Elster88]

A mid-level prospect does not make the deal much tastier, IMHO.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Elster88 wrote: A mid-level prospect does not make the deal much tastier, IMHO.

I agree. A mid-level prospect will be great for the Norfolk Tides, but probably won't do a whole lot for the New York Mets.

[Zvon]

Benson,...to clear salary?

Benson: 2005 Salary: $5,333,333

Trachsel: 2005 Salary: $6,782,500

Im not sure how that stands for 2006 or complete contract wise but Id move Trashy first.

I like Trachsel, he's a good vet, but Im hopin to see good things from Benson the next few years.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Keep in mind, Trax shops at the 5 & 10.

[Frayed Knot]

Benson is owed $14+ over the next 2 years.
Trachsel - because he hardly pitched at all in '05 - didn't make any of his contract incentives and so was renewed at a very low club option of $2.5mil for '06. I think there are incentives that could boost that higher but, if money saving is a goal, Benson is clearly the more attractive to dump right now. And, yeah, Trax has full veto power over any potential move.

Vazquez is owed around $10mil or so for each of the next 2 seasons.
Now the Yanx did pick up some of that when they dealt him to Arizona but I'm not sure if there's a specific schedule to how much they're paying ($xmil per year for instance) or whether they just cut the D'Backs a big fat lump sum check at the time of the trade. If it's the latter, whoever gets Vazquez would have to work out a new agreement with the Snakes if they want any kind of payroll relief.



on edit: Since I just became Shane Spencer I think I'm going to start drinking now despite it being only 9:30 in the morning.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Frayed Knot - "Since I just became Shane Spencer I think I'm going to start drinking now despite it being only 9:30 in the morning."

Just be careful whre you decide to go the bathroom and try to avoid Pizza delivery guys whenever possible.

[Guest GYC]

http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/p...guenum=&id=6167

]Kris Benson - Starting Pitcher The Giants and Royals are believed to have joined the Orioles in trade talks with the Mets regarding right-hander Kris Benson. The Jorge Julio deal is clearly on the backburner now, as the Mets have learned they can get more in return for Benson. Dec. 3 - 4:48 am et Source: New York Daily News

[Guest abogdan]

]Why is there a big push to trade Benson?

Because the Mets have what appears to be a surplus of back of the rotation starters, and based on the Loaiza signing, Benson might actually be undervalued in today's market, especially considering the lack of quality free agent starters out there. Plus, the Mets are willing to take on "worse" contracts, like Vazquez's, in exchange as long as they are getting a potential upgrade talent-wise.

I'd move Benson for Vazquez in a second. Expecting Benson to develop into anything more than he is now, an average starter, at this point in his career is foolhardy. I've always thought Vazquez would be perfectly suited for pitching half of his games at Shea. His problem the past two years has been home runs. Over his last four years in Montreal, after he started pitching 200 IP a year regularly, he averaged just over 1 HR/9 IP. With the Yankees and Arizona, he averaged nearly half a HR more per game. Moving to Shea should cut down on those numbers.[/url]

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

OTOH, one of Benson's "strengths" is preventing the HR, or at least he 's not especially vulnerable to them, and when he's right (obviously not long enough to everyone's satisfaction) we've seen he can be excellent. I'd prolly do Vasquez for Benson too but it's not a slam dunk.

[Frayed Knot]

	IP	H	ER	HR	BB	K	ERA	WHiP
BENSON	375	373	176	39	110	229	4.23	1.29
VAZQUEZ	414	418	214	68	106	342	4.66	1.27

.

Those are their stats for the last 2 seasons.
Vazquez has the better K/BB numbers, but that's not merely more HRs it's nearly double the amount in only 10% more IPs.
Yeah it's NYY stadium and Phoenix vs Pitts & Shea but even League & Park adjusted ERAs show Benson at 97 & 101 (essentially average) and Vazquez somewhat lower at 92 & 99

Both are signed for the next 2 years, but considering that money-wise Vaz is going for nearly 50% more I wouldn't think it's really an even swap unless contract relief or extra player considerations are thrown in. It's not a trade I'd do just for the sake of doing something but wouldn't be adverse to it with a bit more creativity, particularly since the Snakes "have to" move their guy while we don't.
Some Met fans are going to play up the "he's proven he can't play in NYC" angle but that crap doesn't scare me. He had a decent 1st half w/the Yanx and a rotten 2nd half which proves ... not a whole lot.

Vazquez is a year and a half younger. (29.5 vs 31)
His name will also net you a helluva lot more points in SCRABBLE although you'll need to burn one of the blanks.

[MFS62]

Knot, how do those numbers look if you use Valasquez' last two National League years and forget his Yankee/AL year?

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

I've got no great blinders on when it comes to Benson, and was against his acquisition before and during it's occurrance.

That said, I can't repeat enough that seeing someone with ERAs right around the league average should not lead anyone to conclude that they have an average pitcher.

[Frayed Knot]

MFS62 wrote: Knot, how do those numbers look if you use Valasquez' last two National League years and forget his Yankee/AL year?

Some of his Montreal years were better for sure -- I just used the stats from '04 & '05 because I figured the most recent were the most relevant. Also, Benson was a college selection so he started later and then missed several years to injury. Vazquez came out of High School and, no question, was the better young player but the comparisons for those early years simply don't match up and I'm not so sure they tell us a whole lot about now.
I also don't see much point in "taking out" Vazquez's NYY year. Yeah it may have been his worst but those normalized ERA figures (92 & 99 in his case; 100 = league avg) adjust for league, year, and park factors and show that he was giving up runs at a higher rate than Benson even when those differences are accounted for.