Manny to the Mets is an AWFUL idea

[Guest HappyRecap]

I have to question the sanity of anyone who thinks that the Mets should deal for Manny Ramirez.

Here are the facts:

1) He is not a good fielder. Not debatable at all.
2) Huge contract. Why pay for the backend of his deal when we didn't want to pay him that much when he signed with Boston in December of 2000?
3) His batting average has dropped 57 pts over the last four year to this past year where he batted under .300 (.292) and that was with Ortiz hitting behind him which he he won't have in NY.

Overall, he is 34, has DH written all over him and is ill-suited for Shea..

I say no way to Manny.

Just one Met fans opinion.

HappyRecap

[Elster88]

Welcome aboardick.

RMPL.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Welcome HR!

[MFS62]

Welcome, Rookie.
Now get up on the table in the middle of the room and sing your school fight song.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

Just one Met fan's undebateable opinion.

[nymr83]

NOT trading for Manny if the opportunity presents itself would be stupid.
f* his fielding, f* his contract, f* his "diva" personality...he is one of the best hitters in thegame and that is exactly what the Mets need.

[Zvon]

144 RBIs...thats alot a run production.........

But the Mets don't [u:5cec58128b]need[/u:5cec58128b] him, as far as Im concerned.

The NY Post today sez that Manny is low on the Mets cause his family lives in NY and he feels that it would be a distraction.
Thats wack.
Just Manny bein Manny, I guess.

[Guest KC]

f* Manny

[Mex17]

Nymr83 wrote: NOT trading for Manny if the opportunity presents itself would be stupid. f* his fielding, f* his contract, f* his "diva" personality...he is one of the best hitters in thegame and that is exactly what the Mets need.

What he said.

[Guest KC]

Why do we need Manny - his eye-popping-roto-woody stats are gonna what?
He can go do his cute two finger pointing somewhere else and cost another
team a boat load of money and players, you can still have your roto-woodies.

[Theoldmole]

Happy - what a great name. Welcome.

[Theoldmole]

Nymr....what about "f* his fielding, f* his contract, f* his "diva" personality" for a sig line?

[seawolf17]

Are you all on crack?!? We're talking about Manny Ramirez here. I'd pay him $50 million if I was the Wilpons.

Career BA: .314
League Career BA: .273 (the league average during his career)
Number of Mets with a lifetime BA over .300: ONE (John Olerud .315)

Career OBP: .409
League Career OBP: .343
Number of Mets with a lifetime OBP over .400: ONE (John Olerud .425)

Career SLG: .599
League Career SLG: .436
Number of Mets with a lifetime SLG over .550: ZERO (Mike Piazza .542)

Career OPS: 1.008
League Career OPS: .780
Number of Mets with a lifetime OPS over 1.000: ZERO (John Olerud .926)

He instantly becomes the most dangerous offensive player ever to wear a Mets uniform... and he's only 33. B-R.com lists only one player, Juan Gonzalez, with a similarity score over 860 to Man-Ram... and it's only 913. That's because there has never been a hitter like Manny. I'd put him on my team, and I'd put him on my team now.

[Guest KC]

>>>Are you all on crack?<<<

Good lord no, I only free base.

These arguments need to distinguish what direction a team is going in (or
where an individual poster wants it to go - next year - the year after) and
who is a great player or not. It's not rocket science and it doesn't need to
be spelled out like that wolfie, we know the stats - I just don't see the Mets
going in the direction of taking Manny off the Sawx' hands. Fuck them, they
won their World Series with him. Deal with him, send him to the Yanks for
all I care.

[nymr83]

seawolf17 wrote: ONE (John Olerud .315) ONE (John Olerud .425) ZERO (John Olerud .926)

the moral of Seawolf's post? John Olerud is the best met ever.

[Guest cooby]

And Manny could be second best

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mike Piazza has taught me (among many other lessons) that coming into town as a .300-.400-.500 doesn't mean you're going to continue mark up the town as one.

[nymr83]

the offensive decline for catchers (usually linked to getting more and more frequently injured) does always seem to set in earlier than it does for other players.

manny's career line is .314/.409/.599....i'd take .280/.380/.540 which would be a dropoff of .034/.029/.059 from his career and .012/.008/.055 from this past year.
he hasn't had an OPS+ under 143 since before the strike, his lowest as a Red Sock was 152 in 2004, even if he declines i have no reason to believe he'll do so at the speed that others seem to be suggesting.

[Guest rpackrat]

As alsways, however, the question is what you have to give up to get him. With no offense intended to Happy Recap, the idea that the Mets should under no circumstances get Manny is just stupid. As others have pointed out he is one of the best hitters in the history of the game. But certainly his age, his contract, and his lack of defensive ability all reduce his value, i.e. what you should be willing to give up to get him. If the Sox are willing to let him go in a salary dump, e.g., straight up for Cameron, go for it. If they demand Milledge and Petit, say no thanks.

[nymr83]

i'm reluctant to trade milledge, i'd say YES to an offer of Cameron and Petit, i think most here agree with that? what about Cameron, Petit, and Bannister? too much?

[metirish]

It would be fun to see Manny pissing all over the tomato plants in the bullpen...Manny being Manny..

[Guest Rotblatt]

Welcome aboard, Happy!

With regards to his contract, it's likely that the Sox would take on some portion of it, ala the Yanks with Vazquez (I think they're paying $3M a year or so to AZ for him). So we won't actually be paying him $20M per year. We'd still be paying him a shitload, true, but we'd get a little relief.

And while sure, he's starting to decline as a hitter, in all likeliehood, he'll still be one of the best hitters out there over the next three years--that's just how good he's been, as seawolf makes clear.

Willie McCovey is most similar by age, although unlike Manny, he had a history of injuries and never hit for average. Anyway, in his 34-36 seasons, he managed to put up OPS+'s of 103 (injured half the year but still with 18 HR), 162 (383 AB, 29 HR, .409 OBP) & 162 (344 AB, 22 HR, .416 OBP).

Shit, if all we had to give up was Cameron, Petit & pay him $17M per year, I'd do that deal in a heartbeat--crappy defense or not.

[Guest KC]

Hasn't Manny, his staff, the press and/or a combination of the three said
that he has no desire to come to the Mets? If he thought his life was hell
with the media and no privacy in Boston (which was probably a lot of crock,
but really 'Manny being Manny' - I hate that stupid shit by the way) then what
makes everyone think it's going to be more pleasant in NY for him after going
0-4 on a Sunday night in the Subway Series getting swept by the Yankees?

If he ends up here and they don't give up a lot, fine. But I'm not going to get
myself all lathered up and dream about it either because I don't think it will
have a happy ending.

[seawolf17]

I just don't get what's not to love about this guy. We spooge all over Carlos Bonilleltran -- and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because I still think he'll be great -- but when you have the chance to add one of the premier offensive players in the game, you do it, and you don't let a 20-year-old outfielder stop you.

[Guest KC]

Spoogin' and on crack - anyone else want to paint some more for the word
picture of the anti-Manny-to-the-Mets fan?

[seawolf17]

I'm not even 100% sure why I'm getting all defensive over him all of a sudden... I just can't say unequivocably that it's an "awful" idea. Asking Al Leiter to play 150 games at second base in 2006 is an "awful" idea. Signing Darryl Strawberry to a minor-league deal "just in case he rediscovers his stroke" is an "awful" idea. Adding a guy who goes .310/.420/.600 on a regular basis and drives in runs just by falling out of bed is never, ever, ever, ever an awful idea.

[Guest cooby]

Asking AL Leiter to play 1.5 games at pitcher is a bad idea, but I digress.

I want Manny on my team. Not only does he instantly improve the team, he is fun to watch. And come on, his defense is not that bad. Stop watching ESPN highlights and watch him over the course of a season to make your judgments on that.

And stealing Pedro and Manny from the Red Sox just tickles my fancy; I am that sick of them already

[Frayed Knot]

]I just don't get what's not to love about this guy

Maybe that he's already overpaid
- and that he's not going to suddenly start getting better at age 34
- and that his defense - oh yes it IS that bad - will pop up even more as he goes from the smallest LF in baseball to one of the larger ones
- and that we don't have the luxury of the DH to hide him
- and that he considers running out hits and grounders as something to do only on an occasional basis

Look, it's not a question of not wanting a bat like his, it's a matter of not wanting him considering the price it'll probably take to get him. If he was a FA this year not only would he NOT get the money on a per/yr bases that he's making now but you have to cough up players for him as well. IOW, without a substantial discount, you'd be paying for him twice and I'm tired of getting "name players" only because we're willing to pick up the oft-ugly back end of huge contracts.



P.S. For the first time in years, I kinda like our existing OF.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Our outfield needs more depth, not more heft.

]then what makes everyone think it's going to be more pleasant in NY for him after going 0-4 on a Sunday night in the Subway Series getting swept by the Yankees?

Wait. Is he going to play against the Yankees? I have to rethink this.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Nymr83 wrote: ="seawolf17"] ONE (John Olerud .315) ONE (John Olerud .425) ZERO (John Olerud .926) the moral of Seawolf's post? John Olerud is the best met ever.

Damn straight