Backman turned down by Mets for AA job

[Guest Mark Healey]

Thought you guys would be interested in this:

http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1279

let me know what you think...

[nymr83]

]Fear that the New York media's love affair with hand-picked manager Willie Randolph will sour if the big-budget Mets get off to a slow start in his second year, and those same "Willie's a Winner" pundits will be calling for a much-more qualified candidate in Backman to get Randolph's job?

everyone knows i'm not a fan of wee willie small brain, but what exactly makes backman "much-more qualified" to manage in the majors?

[Guest Mark Healey]

Because he's a two-time Minor League Manager of the Year, whose won two championships at the A and AA levels?

Oberkfell was more qualified as well, and he didn't even get an interview...

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm a little dubious of the insider action.

You don't need to show cause in order to not hire someone.

I'd be less concerned with Bernezard's alleged black book hiring techniques than with the fact that somebody's chuckling behind his back to the media.

[Theoldmole]

What has Backman done that Bobby Cox hasn't?

[Zvon]

I definately think that Backman should be given the chance, and by the Mets.

He knows the game and should be able to at least manage on a minor leaue level and keep his nose clean,and maybe manage an MLB team someday.

]With a bunch of Ivy-League, never-played-the-game, 30-something suits running things behind the scenes with increasing regularity, there's no appreciation for a rough-and-tumble guy who manages as much with his gut as with his brain.

I dont buy this cuz thats exactly the type of manager Ozzie Guillen is.

[Frayed Knot]

Without not claiming to know all the details of either case, it's safe to say it would be misleading at best to paint all domestic disturbances (or any crime or potential crime) as if there are no distinctions within the category.

Part of Backman's problem involves the fact that he was on probation for one or more existing transgressions when another cropped up (DUI, tax, domestic abuse). He also wasn't forthcoming about it to the DBacks during the process (or they didn't ask).
In Cox's case (IIRC) his wife called police during an argument she thought was about to get out of hand. It never did get physical and charges were never filed even though the incident became public because of the police response.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]I dont buy this cuz thats exactly the type of manager Ozzie Guillen is.

Depending on the angle people are shooting for, that could be exactly the type of manager Willie Randoph is.

[metirish]

Certainly Kenny Williams who played appreciates Guillen, Williams did some job with this team.

[metirish]

]Depending on the angle people are shooting for, that could be exactly the type of manager Willie Randoph is.

Yes"going with my gut" was a favorite refrain of Willies, which of course got him hammered more than a few times..

[Zvon]

="Edgy DC"] ]I dont buy this cuz thats exactly the type of manager Ozzie Guillen is. Depending on the angle people are shooting for, that could be exactly the type of manager Willie Randoph is.

lol...lets give Willie his 2 more seasons and see if he learns and he grows.
If theres no indication of this in 2007 then drop him anytime during that season.

[Elster88]

Nymr83 wrote: ]Fear that the New York media's love affair with hand-picked manager Willie Randolph will sour if the big-budget Mets get off to a slow start in his second year, and those same "Willie's a Winner" pundits will be calling for a much-more qualified candidate in Backman to get Randolph's job? everyone knows i'm not a fan of wee willie small brain, but what exactly makes backman "much-more qualified" to manage in the majors?

Oh, just maybe the fact that he had managed a game prior to 2005? Not hard to figure out.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's certainly part of the argument. It doesn't make it slam-dunk, though.

There's a lot of weird stuff here. Let's start with the principle that the Mets --- and every other team --- do not need to justify who they don't hire as their AA manager. Of course, they'd issue a no-comment.

If you want to speculate why (and that's all this is --- specualtion with an agenda), start with the notion that he's the type of guy who'd cooperate with a media campaign, following his inquiry, slagging them for not hiring him.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

let me know what you think...

Sure it’d be nice if Wally Backman gets another shot. And you made a case for the benefits of giving that shot, but that's about all you accomplished.

Suggesting that hiring someone else — basically *anyone else* — would be “counterproductive” is a pretty serious leap. And I also don’t buy your suggestion that the Mets somehow know hiring Backman would be so brilliant, it could cause sportswriters to turn on Willie. For one thing, they’ll turn on Willie at some point anyway -- a bad start alone next year is all the excuse they’ll need.

And since when does a guy need to be a Mets employee to become a sexy name to drop? Piniella sure wasn’t, and I’m sure his name comes up at the first sign of trouble.

With a bunch of Ivy-League, never-played-the-game, 30-something suits running things behind the scenes with increasing regularity, there's no appreciation for a rough-and-tumble guy who manages as much with his gut as with his brain.

I don’t believe this statement is very supportable to begin with; and I don’t like the whiff of dismissiveness from the discription. What’s next? “Theo Epstein watches his laptops instead of the games!” I don’t think “gut” and “brain” need to be mutually exclusive terms -- Backman’s career ought to prove that.

With Garner and Guillen in the World Series, and guys like Randolph, Robinson and Leland hired, and Omar running a front office, you could argue appreciation for rough-and-tumble guys is as high as it’s ever been.

*
So, in a way, it's understandable why the D'Backs passed on Backman, as they were more concerned with their image than winning baseball games, given how retread replacement Bob Melvin bumbled his way to 77-85 record in the dismal NL West.

"There's no doubt in my mind, that Wally Backman would have won the NL West this year with that team," one industry source told Gotham Baseball. "He has a great baseball mind, and he deserves another shot."

Did your source speak anonymously for fear of being suspected of smoking pot?

Without making an argument as to how much Melvin bumbled or didn’t bumble, the fact is the D-backs outperformed their pythagorean by 11 games -- in other words they won a lot more often than their runs for and against would suggest. Are we to believe Backman is magical enough to tack another 6 wins onto that? An extra 17 wins would have won almost any team any division.

Teams finish where they do mainly because that’s where their talent takes them. The Dbacks ranked in the bottom half of the league in pitching and hitting.
*

Finally I think you could use an editor. The article is loaded with awful sentences:

Backman and his Arizona-based agent Terry Bross had already come to that conclusion themselves, as they contacted the Mets for that every reason, only to be turned down.

you mean “very”

According to published reports, Backman pleaded guilty in January 2001 for a DUI charge — an incident which occurred in 1999 and subsequently fought for two years -- and was given a sentence of five years probation, with the condition that he have "no violations of criminal law."

Your subject changes here from Backman to an incident and back again.

*
"Wally's name is probably not in (Mets' assistant GM Tony) Bernazard's little black book," chuckled one Mets insider.

More likely is the Mets' Dan Snyder-like disdain for any kind of bad publicity -- meaning it defied logic -- which is probably why they get so much of it.

This entire passage is a disaster. The second sentence makes no sense at all -- I think you’re trying to say that the Mets do things that defy logic because they’re frightened of bad publicity, only to get bad publicity as a result, but it reads as though to mean: “It is more likely than Tony Bernazard having Backman on speed dial that the Mets’ disdain for any kind of bad publicity defies logic which is probably why the Mets get so much disdain for any kind of bad publicity.” Ugh!

*
IN any event, if the the organization is thinking that the New York fan would dislike a Backman hire, they are sorely mistaken.

One “the” is enough. Tense disagreement: “Organization” is singular, so it should be “it” and not “they.”

[Guest Edgy DC]

See, I was painfully laying off all the bad editing, trying to draw Mark back in to disucuss how a guy can "bumble" his way in managing a team that improves by 26 freaking games. Then you swoop in.

[MFS62]

Edgy, when you see an opportunity, you've got to go for it.


Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

You're the one who claims I'm uncivil.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

There's also some ethical hanging sliders.

In Gotham Baseball's opinion, there was certainly motivation for the Arizona media, namely the AZR's Craig Harris, to ring the bell of indignant self-righteousness.

Serious allegation. Had Harris been a fan of Wally Backman, I suppose then it would be OK to sit on potentially damaging information about him.

[MFS62]

When it comes to editing grammar, that's what you do very well.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm uncivil but my editing of other posters is welcome, even encouraged.

[MFS62]

It was meant as a compliment. It is something you are very good at..

And, I have been concerned with the overall civility of the board. Things like saying please (when you ask for some information), and thank you(when you get it). Or complimenting other posters on providing an interesting link, piece of information or a funny line.

You have periodically pointed out ways for me to improve the receptivity of my posts,including finding facts to back up my opinions, and I thank you for that.

Later

[Theoldmole]

Is that the St. Johns - NY Mets Terry Bross?

[nymr83]

Elster88 wrote: ="Nymr83"] ]Fear that the New York media's love affair with hand-picked manager Willie Randolph will sour if the big-budget Mets get off to a slow start in his second year, and those same "Willie's a Winner" pundits will be calling for a much-more qualified candidate in Backman to get Randolph's job? everyone knows i'm not a fan of wee willie small brain, but what exactly makes backman "much-more qualified" to manage in the majors? Oh, just maybe the fact that he had managed a game prior to 2005? Not hard to figure out.

if that were true then a career .230 hitter who is 39 years old and can't play the field was "more qualified" than david wright at the point wright was brought up.

[Elster88]

Nymr83 wrote: ="Elster88"] Nymr83 wrote: ]Fear that the New York media's love affair with hand-picked manager Willie Randolph will sour if the big-budget Mets get off to a slow start in his second year, and those same "Willie's a Winner" pundits will be calling for a much-more qualified candidate in Backman to get Randolph's job? everyone knows i'm not a fan of wee willie small brain, but what exactly makes backman "much-more qualified" to manage in the majors? Oh, just maybe the fact that he had managed a game prior to 2005? Not hard to figure out. if that were true then a career .230 hitter who is 39 years old and can't play the field was "more qualified" than david wright at the point wright was brought up.

I won't even try explaining why this is wrong. It should be obvious.

[nymr83]

why is "mr. experienced manager" not listed at all on baseball reference as a manager?

edit- i'll cut the sarcasm out and answer my own question- because backman had just as much mlb managerial experienmce as randolph, NONE. now which is better preperation for a job, being on the yankee bench for ten years or managing some independent league team? i don't like randolph but i think he's more qualified.

[Frayed Knot]

Backman managed A & AA teams for two different organizations (ChiW & Arz) not independant league teams.

Or maybe he managed in indie leagues also but that wasn't the extent of his experience.

[nymr83]

i forgot the AA stint, i'll say that that makes him not unqualified in my mind, though i still would have chosen randolph over him.
what makes a guy "qualified" anyway? it seems to me that any former big leaguer with a reputation as a "nice guy" has a shot at a job.

[Guest Mark Healey]

TheOldMole wrote: Is that the St. Johns - NY Mets Terry Bross?

Yes

[Guest Mark Healey]

Zvon wrote: I definately think that Backman should be given the chance, and by the Mets. He knows the game and should be able to at least manage on a minor leaue level and keep his nose clean,and maybe manage an MLB team someday. ]With a bunch of Ivy-League, never-played-the-game, 30-something suits running things behind the scenes with increasing regularity, there's no appreciation for a rough-and-tumble guy who manages as much with his gut as with his brain. I dont buy this cuz thats exactly the type of manager Ozzie Guillen is.

Is Ken Williams a 30-something suit?

[Guest Mark Healey]

]Sure it’d be nice if Wally Backman gets another shot. And you made a case for the benefits of giving that shot, but that's about all you accomplished.

That was the point of the column.

]Suggesting that hiring someone else — basically *anyone else* — would be “counterproductive” is a pretty serious leap.

Well, not hiring Backman, arguably the best minor league manager candidate there is, is counterproductive to me. IMO, of course.

]And I also don’t buy your suggestion that the Mets somehow know hiring Backman would be so brilliant, it could cause sportswriters to turn on Willie. For one thing, they’ll turn on Willie at some point anyway -- a bad start alone next year is all the excuse they’ll need.

We'll see.

]And since when does a guy need to be a Mets employee to become a sexy name to drop? Piniella sure wasn’t, and I’m sure his name comes up at the first sign of trouble.

If he's in the organization already? And winning? I disagree there.

]I don’t believe this statement is very supportable to begin with; and I don’t like the whiff of dismissiveness from the discription.

Who's running things in Texas now? Tampa? Toronto? Los Angeles? That's a trend.

]What’s next? “Theo Epstein watches his laptops instead of the games!” I don’t think “gut” and “brain” need to be mutually exclusive terms -- Backman’s career ought to prove that. With Garner and Guillen in the World Series, and guys like Randolph, Robinson and Leland hired, and Omar running a front office, you could argue appreciation for rough-and-tumble guys is as high as it’s ever been.

Hunsicker hired Garner, Ken Williams hired Guillen...MLB hired Robsinon and Dombrowski hired Leyland (and don't put Randolph in that group please)...those are baseball guys making baseball hires. Those gentlemen want their skippers to have an opinion. Think that's the case of ther new breed that takes their cues from the Genius?

]Did your source speak anonymously for fear of being suspected of smoking pot? Without making an argument as to how much Melvin bumbled or didn’t bumble, the fact is the D-backs outperformed their pythagorean by 11 games -- in other words they won a lot more often than their runs for and against would suggest. Are we to believe Backman is magical enough to tack another 6 wins onto that? An extra 17 wins would have won almost any team any division. Teams finish where they do mainly because that’s where their talent takes them. The Dbacks ranked in the bottom half of the league in pitching and hitting.

Opinion

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The rest of post has nothing to do with the issue and is noted.