Drought watch

[Benjamin Grimm]

In honor of the Chicago White Sox and the Houston Astros, both trying to end years of futility.

I'm a little surprised at how far down the first list the Cardinals are.

And if not for 1986, look how far down the Mets would be. They'd only be ahead of four teams.



Most years without a World Championship

1 years	Boston Red Sox	2004
2 years	Florida Marlins	2003
3 years	Anaheim Angels	2002
4 years	Arizona Diamondbacks	2001
5 years	New York Yankees	2000
10 years	Atlanta Braves	1995
12 years	Toronto Blue Jays	1993
14 years	Minnesota Twins	1991
15 years	Cincinnati Reds	1990
16 years	Oakland Athletics	1989
17 years	Los Angeles Dodgers	1988
19 years	New York Mets	1986
20 years	Kansas City Royals	1985
21 years	Detroit Tigers	1984
22 years	Baltimore Orioles	1983
23 years	St. Louis Cardinals	1982
25 years	Philadelphia Phillies	1980
26 years	Pittsburgh Pirates	1979
51 years	New York (SF) Giants	1954
57 years	Cleveland Indians	1948
88 years	Chicago White Sox	1917
97 years	Chicago Cubs	1908

Never Won a World Championship

8 years	Tampa Bay Devil Rays	1997
13 years	Colorado Rockies	1992
29 years	Seattle Mariners	1976
37 years	Washington Nationals (Montreal Expos)	1968
37 years	San Diego Padres	1968
37 years	Milwaukee Brewers (Seattle Pilots)	1968
44 years	Houston Astros	1961
45 years	Texas Rangers (Washington Senators)	1960

Most years without a League Championship

1 years	Boston Red Sox	2004
1 years	St. Louis Cardinals	2004
2 years	Florida Marlins	2003
2 years	New York Yankees	2003
3 years	Anaheim Angels	2002
3 years	San Francisco Giants	2002
4 years	Arizona Diamondbacks	2001
5 years	New York Mets	2000
6 years	Atlanta Braves	1999
7 years	San Diego Padres	1998
8 years	Cleveland Indians	1997
12 years	Toronto Blue Jays	1993
12 years	Philadelphia Phillies	1993
14 years	Minnesota Twins	1991
15 years	Cincinnati Reds	1990
16 years	Oakland Athletics	1989
17 years	Los Angeles Dodgers	1988
20 years	Kansas City Royals	1985
21 years	Detroit Tigers	1984
22 years	Baltimore Orioles	1983
23 years	Milwaukee Brewers	1982
26 years	Pittsburgh Pirates	1979
46 years	Chicago White Sox	1959
60 years	Chicago Cubs	1945

Never Won a League Championship

8 years	Tampa Bay Devil Rays	1997
13 years	Colorado Rockies	1992
29 years	Seattle Mariners	1976
37 years	Washington Nationals (Montreal Expos)	1968
44 years	Houston Astros	1961
45 years	Texas Rangers (Washington Senators)	1960

[soupcan]

I'm not getting the Red Buttons reference.

[Benjamin Grimm]

"Never got a dinner."

[metirish]

Great work Yancy....

[Guest Edgy DC]

The comeback of our times:"Twenty-six world championships? Dude, let go of the second millenium already."

Also, I'd like to take this time to send a thumbs-down to Senator Chuck Shumer for this press release. I'm glad, I guess, that the Mets won Schumer some wine, but in boasting of New York City's baseball teams winning 27 world championships (now 28), he neglects to recall the five that had been won by the Giants and the one by the Dodgers. Not so good for an outer-borough guy.

[Willets Point]

It's nice to see the Mets ahead of the Braves in the Most years without a League Championship list. Maybe we've cursed both the Braves & Yankees? Not much of a curse though: "You will always do better than us,getting into the playoffs each year, but you'll never win it all! Mwah-ha-ha-ha!"

[Benjamin Grimm]

Another interesting tidbit:

There's a 75% chance that at the end of this postseason, we'll see our sixth different World Champion in the last six years. (Unless the Angels prevail.)

I'm pretty sure that's unprecedented. And if it happens, we can all root for the Mets to make it seven next year.

[Willets Point]

1978-1987 is 10 seasons with a different WS champion each year.

1978 New York A.L. Los Angeles N.L. 4-2
1979 Pittsburgh N.L. Baltimore A.L. 4-3
1980 Philadelphia N.L. Kansas City A.L. 4-2
1981 Los Angeles N.L. New York A.L. 4-2
1982 St. Louis N.L. Milwaukee A.L. 4-3
1983 Baltimore A.L. Philadelphia N.L. 4-1
1984 Detroit A.L. San Diego N.L. 4-1
1985 Kansas City A.L. St. Louis N.L. 4-3
1986 New York N.L. Boston A.L. 4-3
1987 Minnesota A.L. St. Louis N.L. 4-3

That's a great decade for baseball, 13 of 26 teams won a pennant! No wonder why it seemed like every team had a chance when I was a kid.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Nice going. I had no idea.

[Valadius]

We're more recent NL Champions than the Braves. That means we're better... or something. In some small way.

[Frayed Knot]

]That's a great decade for baseball, 13 of 26 teams won a pennant! No wonder why it seemed like every team had a chance when I was a kid.

It's a shame how that new-fangled free agency ruined the competitive balance in MLB.
The '50s & '60s on the other hand, now those were egalitarian decades ... oh wait!

]Drought watch

aka; Who'll Start the Reign?

[Guest Edgy DC]

]It's a shame how that new-fangled free agency ruined the competitive balance in MLB.

I don't think that's the claim. It's hard to argue that the notion of equal opportunity hasn't taken a hard hit since the early nineties.

[Willets Point]

I think Frayed was referring to the argument made against free agency in the 50's, 60's & 70's. Other factors have upset the competitive balance since then, I believe.

[Frayed Knot]

="Edgy DC"]I don't think that's the claim.

It was at the time - although admittedly I'm dredging up slogans from an old war here.

]It's hard to argue that the notion of equal opportunity hasn't taken a hard hit since the early nineties.

No question. But that problem started - beginning with the NYY/MSG deal in the late '80s - when the local TV money exploded but only in certain markets and MLB was too slow (or unwilling, or unable) to reach an agreement on spreading that money more equitably. Instead, they were still operating under the rules from the days when those differences were comparitively small.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I can see clearly now.

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

My favorite fact from these rankings is that since the last time the Cubs, White Sox, Indians and Giants last won a World Series (1954) the Angels, Mets, Royals, Bluejays, Marlins and Diamondbacks have all been created and won world championships. With the Mets, Bluejays and Marlins double dipping.

Now THAT would be considered annoying if you were fans of the aforementioned teams with droughts!

Another great factoid is thinking about that year, and the next and if you want to take a dividing line to those years in terms of dominance of the NL in terms of global popularity, championships and noterity. Look at a list of the championship winners from 1903-1954. Then from 1955...

Actually I think the paradigms for the two franchises started to shift back in the early 1940's, but I'm sure 1947 might be a better cut off point in the fates of the premire NL and NYC baseball franchise from 1903-1954, the New York Giants, and that of, despite MLB, FOX and Frank McCourt's best efforts, the one of the premire NL, and even to this day (some 58 years since they last played a home game in the City limits) NYC baseball franchises the Los Angeles Dodgers

It truely is a facinating story about how the franchises kind of "changed roles" around that time

Steve

[Zvon]

awsum post Yancy.
Totally entertaining to browse thru those lists.
Thank you sir.

Did you create all that,.. is this a CPF exclusive?

You get my Riengold Poster Of The Year award dude.

[nymr83]

free agency in the 70's may have CREATED parity in the 70's and 80's. that parity clearly left in the 90's and if baseball wants it back it will take 2 years of striking at least to impose a salary cap.

[Guest Iubitul]

I love the Red Button reference - one of my all time fav's:

]Moses, who once said to God, 'Please, stop calling me Charlton', never got a dinner...

[Zvon]

Nymr83 wrote: free agency in the 70's may have CREATED parity in the 70's and 80's. that parity clearly left in the 90's and if baseball wants it back it will take 2 years of striking at least to impose a salary cap.

......something has to be done.
Its a spiral that started upward and outward but has turned inward and downward (as far as the state of the game), imo.

I hate to compare it to slavery, the relationship between owners and players, but there are analogies, and I do believe that things were rebalanced at a point and ultimately overcompensated.

Players should be paid fairly and what they are worth. They are overpaid.
Owners should make money. They have to adjust prices to do it.
Its out of control and the players will never concede anything, which, to me, is a problem.
Of course, there was a time when the owners would not concede, but we are far past that point.

[nymr83]

one thing that alot of people fail to realize is that the MLBPA is not your typical union (nor are baseball owners your typical business owners.) They're both filty rich and when they fight there is nobody to feel bad for but the fans.
an NFL style Salary Cap would be great, but i'd settle even for an NBA "soft cap" or greater revenue sharing (with minimum spending on payroll of twice what you're getting mandatory.)
The players get more andmore bullshit benefits every time and its bad for the game, but its also realy bad for he game when the owners in Tampa Bay, Kansas City, and elsewhere can get big fat checks for Steinbrenner, Wilpon, and Angelos and still not spend more money on players.
We'll probably never have NFL-like parity but we can dream.

[Zvon]

Nymr83 wrote: They're both filty rich and when they fight there is nobody to feel bad for but the fans.

BINGO!

....unfortunately

And we love the game so much we really cant do anything about it.
We want the games to be played.
Maybe we are now the slaves.

[Frayed Knot]

I'm not sold on the idea that salary caps are a magic elixer in these things.
In the words of Rod Serling; "Submitted for your approval":


Over the Last 10 years:
Champions:
MLB = 6 different teams (20% of the league)
NFL = 7 (21.9%)
NBA = 5 (17.2%)

Reaching the Finals:
MLB = 11 different teams (36.7%)
NFL = 11 (34.4%)
NBA = 12 (41.4%)

Failed to reach the league semis (league/conference championship):
MLB = 12 different teams (40%)
NFL = 10 (31.3%)
NBA = 10 (34.5%)



And over the last 20 years:
Different Champions:
MLB = 14 (46.7%)
NFL = 11 (34.4%)
NBA = 6 (20.7%) - that's right, only 6 franchises over 20 seasons!

Reached the finals:
MLB = 19 (63.3%)
NFL = 19 (59.4%)
NBA = 15 (51.7%)

Did not reach the semis:
MLB = 5 (16.7%)
NFL = 4 (12.5%)
NBA = 6 (20.7%)

[Frayed Knot]

"Players should be paid fairly and what they are worth. They are overpaid."

They're being paid only what they're being offered by competing employers in an open market -- and even then it takes them a long while before they're allowed to exercise that right.


"Owners should make money. They have to adjust prices to do it."

And control expenses as well. The old reliable "invisible hand" of supply and demand take care of the prices.


"Its out of control and the players will never concede anything, which, to me, is a problem."

They made some concessions in the last negotiating session.


"Of course, there was a time when the owners would not concede, but we are far past that point."

And while the system is far from perfect, I don't think it's "broken" (see stats in above post). The parties are making (slow) progress and I believe that what's in place now puts the league as a whole in as good a place as it's been in many years.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The players made consessions on drug testing and their contract wasn't even up.

[Willets Point]

This is Kasey Kasem counting down the most years without a League Championship. Moving up 22 spots on the charts to number one, from the Southside, the Chicago White Sox!

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'd hate an NFL-model salary cap.

[Willets Point]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: There's a 75% chance that at the end of this postseason, we'll see our sixth different World Champion in the last six years. (Unless the Angels prevail.)

It's now 100% that we'll see the six different World Champion in six years.

[Benjamin Grimm]

One of baseball's longest droughts has ended.

Most Years Without a League Championship

0	Chicago White Sox	2005
1	Boston Red Sox	2004
1	St. Louis Cardinals	2004
2	Florida Marlins	2003
2	New York Yankees	2003
3	Anaheim Angels	2002
3	San Francisco Giants	2002
4	Arizona Diamondbacks	2001
5	New York Mets	2000
6	Atlanta Braves	1999
7	San Diego Padres	1998
8	Cleveland Indians	1997
12	Toronto Blue Jays	1993
12	Philadelphia Phillies	1993
14	Minnesota Twins	1991
15	Cincinnati Reds	1990
16	Oakland Athletics	1989
17	Los Angeles Dodgers	1988
20	Kansas City Royals	1985
21	Detroit Tigers	1984
22	Baltimore Orioles	1983
23	Milwaukee Brewers	1982
26	Pittsburgh Pirates	1979
60	Chicago Cubs	1945

[Guest Edgy DC]

Things just got a little dryer in Cleveland

Most years without a World Championship

0 years	Chicago White Sox	2005
1 years	Boston Red Sox	2004
2 years	Florida Marlins	2003
3 years	Anaheim Angels	2002
4 years	Arizona Diamondbacks	2001
5 years	New York Yankees	2000
10 years	Atlanta Braves	1995
12 years	Toronto Blue Jays	1993
14 years	Minnesota Twins	1991
15 years	Cincinnati Reds	1990
16 years	Oakland Athletics	1989
17 years	Los Angeles Dodgers	1988
19 years	New York Mets	1986
20 years	Kansas City Royals	1985
21 years	Detroit Tigers	1984
22 years	Baltimore Orioles	1983
23 years	St. Louis Cardinals	1982
25 years	Philadelphia Phillies	1980
26 years	Pittsburgh Pirates	1979
51 years	New York (SF) Giants	1954
57 years	Cleveland Indians	1948
97 years	Chicago Cubs	1908

Never Won a World Championship

8 years	Tampa Bay Devil Rays	1997
13 years	Colorado Rockies	1992
29 years	Seattle Mariners	1976
37 years	Washington Nationals (Montreal Expos)	1968
37 years	San Diego Padres	1968
37 years	Milwaukee Brewers (Seattle Pilots)	1968
44 years	Houston Astros	1961
45 years	Texas Rangers (Washington Senators)	1960

Most years without a League Championship

0 years	Chicago White Sox	2005
0 years	Houston Astros	2005
1 years	Boston Red Sox	2004
1 years	St. Louis Cardinals	2004
2 years	Florida Marlins	2003
2 years	New York Yankees	2003
3 years	Anaheim Angels	2002
3 years	San Francisco Giants	2002
4 years	Arizona Diamondbacks	2001
5 years	New York Mets	2000
6 years	Atlanta Braves	1999
7 years	San Diego Padres	1998
8 years	Cleveland Indians	1997
12 years	Toronto Blue Jays	1993
12 years	Philadelphia Phillies	1993
14 years	Minnesota Twins	1991
15 years	Cincinnati Reds	1990
16 years	Oakland Athletics	1989
17 years	Los Angeles Dodgers	1988
20 years	Kansas City Royals	1985
21 years	Detroit Tigers	1984
22 years	Baltimore Orioles	1983
23 years	Milwaukee Brewers	1982
26 years	Pittsburgh Pirates	1979
60 years	Chicago Cubs	1945

Never Won a League Championship

8 years	Tampa Bay Devil Rays	1997
13 years	Colorado Rockies	1992
29 years	Seattle Mariners	1976
37 years	Washington Nationals (Montreal Expos)	1968
45 years	Texas Rangers (Washington Senators)	1960