Stats midway through the season

[Benjamin Grimm]

Strange how one guy got so much more heat about similar stats than the other guy did.

Name	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	HBP	SB	CS	Avg.	Slg.
George Foster, 1982	78	289	36	78	10	0	9	37	32	67	1	0	0	0.270	0.398
Carlos Beltran, 2005	74	286	32	75	19	1	9	40	24	53	1	4	2	0.262	0.430

[Theoldmole]

We still expect Beltran to do better. And we're still accepting the quad story.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Foster's indifferent defense was probably also a factor.

[seawolf17]

Want to really spit?

Name	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	HBP	SB	CS	AVG	SLG
George Foster, 1982	78	289	36	78	10	0	9	37	32	67	1	0	0	.270	.398
Carlos Beltran, 2005	74	286	32	75	19	1	9	40	24	53	1	4	2	.262	.430
Bobby Bonilla, 1992	79	270	42	72	18	0	10	46	49	51	1	4	1	.267	.444

[smg58]

That's... disturbing. Although I think Foster wound up with something like 12 HR that season, so I imagine the negative press built up over the year. Plus, I think people know that Beltran is streaky, and are still expecting (or at least hoping for) an explosion in time to vault the Mets into serious playoff contention. That being said, I'm amazed that he's gotten so little attention up to this point, and I can't see that lasting much longer.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Foster really needs to pick it up on the basepaths.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

So what's your explanation for the difference between Foster's reception and Beltran's? Everyone one just buy Yancy's "defensive indifference" explanation?

Some alternate possibilities:

a) Mets fans are different now

b) fans are different now

c) big money is more run of the mill now

d) Hispanics get less racism than blacks

e) Beltran's attitude is more fan-friendly than not-so-curious George's

f) Beltran's good looks

g) Foster's bad relationship with Mets is being overstated by applying his entire Met career to his first three months in retrospect

h) we actually hate Beltran more than we perceive

i) the Mets' p.r. machine has learned from its many errors

and of course Yancy's principle.

Any others?

[Benjamin Grimm]

From Bret's list, I think the more likely choices are C, E, and G.

[smg58]

I think it's a combination of things. For one thing, Foster was lazy and Bonilla obnoxious; Beltran does not appear to be either. Plus, Pedro has managed to divert a lot of attention towards himself, and that attention has been all favorable so far. And I think people feel the Mets are heading in the right direction in general, and that makes a difference.

Still, a couple of weeks of the Beltran from last year's playoffs would be nice...

[seawolf17]

Ditto smg and Yancy.

I wasn't a Mets fan yet in '82... was Foster hated at the time? I would have assumed that would have been an exciting trade when it went down.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And I think people feel the Mets are heading in the right direction in general, and that makes a difference.

We were thinking that in 1982, too. At least going into the season, anyway.

George Foster was a big reason for that.

And the Mets were a game under .500 as late as July 2.

The optimism was delusional at that point, though, but I think it was there. I remember in 1983 I began to feel a different kind of optimism, one that acutally felt grounded in reality.

[soupcan]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: The optimism was delusional at that point, though, but I think it was there. I remember in 1983 I began to feel a different kind of optimism, one that acutally felt grounded in reality.

'83 for me too - prolly cause that's when Terrell and Darling showed up and you could sense good things starting to happen.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Not to mention Hernandez and Strawberry.

[soupcan]

Oh yeah - them too.

[seawolf17]

And Clint Hurdle.

[soupcan]

Alright enough.

I had a brain cramp.

[Benjamin Grimm]

[url=http://www.leaptoad.com/mets/gamedetail.php?gameno=3330&tabno=B]This game memory[/url] hit the UMDB today. A fun anecdote about Tom Hausman, and a tie-in to our conversation about George Foster.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Players from that game I don't remember: Tim Tolman, Bret Roberge.

Players from that game I maybe scarcely remember: Tony Scott.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Tollman kind of rings a bell.

So does Frank LaCorte, vaguely.

[seawolf17]

edit: wrong thread

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think the Pirates have invaded this thread.

[Benjamin Grimm]

seawolf17 wrote: I wasn't a Mets fan yet in '82... was Foster hated at the time? I would have assumed that would have been an exciting trade when it went down.

It was a very exciting trade when it went down. He was coming off a great season: 22 homers and 90 RBI in the abbreviated 1981 season.

But as a Met, especially in 1982, he never got started. (His 1983 picked up a bit, but by then the damage was done.) I don't remember at what point in the season our expectations went sour. According to Professor G in the link I posted, it was around the middle of the season. That may be right.

Foster's arrival was greeted as enthusastically in 1982 as Beltran's was this year. And their numbers, at the same point in their Mets tenure, are similar.

I don't get the sense, though, that the fans are even close to turning on Carlos. And I don't think it's because Mets fans are content with a .500 record. The Mets were right around that mark on July 1, 1982 as well.

Beltran is getting a lot more slack than New York usually gives.

[Elster88]

I think it's also because every single radio call-in person and every single media member went on and on about how important it was that the Mets spent the big money on the biggest stud in the free agent market. Now they have to give him time before they take back what they said.

Actually that's probably not true, because most of such morons can say one thing and something completely the opposite in the next breath without realizing it.

[Willets Point]

Beltran is younger too. I think Mets fans excitement over Foster was curtailed by the realization that his All-Star days were behind him. Fans now realisticallly expect some good years from Beltran (I hope).

[Guest Edgy DC]

Part of it is that Pedro Martinez has been all we could have hoped for and more. He's keeping the sharks at bay.

Doesn't stop them from going after Duke's boys, though.

[Willets Point]

Foster's similarity scores are interesting. #1 one a beloved Met/Dodger who a lot of people would like to put in the hall of fame. #2 a paroled convict who brought down the Dukakis campaign.

1. Gil Hodges (921)
2. Willie Horton (917)
3. Fred Lynn (914)
4. Del Ennis (910)
5. Rocky Colavito (910)
6. Jack Clark (907)
7. Joe Adcock (906)
8. Tino Martinez (906)
9. Matt Williams (903)
10. Lee May (901)

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Willets Point wrote: #2 a paroled convict who brought down the Dukakis campaign.

Nah--that was Bernard Shaw.

OE: Not the "infinitely more arduous" guy, either. But then yours wasn't the recidivist guy.

[seawolf17]

It's also interesting that there's nobody really that similar to Foster; 921 is a relatively average similarity score. He was a thumping outfielder; you'd think they're a dime a dozen in baseball history, but I guess not.