If deGrom still deserves his own thread, well then this is it.

[G-Fafif]

I'm sure the Rangers' doctors and trainers will take good care of him, but it feels wrong that Jake isn't on our IL.

[metsmarathon]

it feels a little like he never got off it.

[ashie62]

Jakes lifetime numbers are similar to Strasburg



Can deGrom say no to surgery and get paid something?



He won't say no but geez doesn't he know he's about finished?

[Frayed Knot]

If he returns from this TJS in the normal time frame (say in time for OD 2025) he'll still have three years remaining on his contract.

Why would he refuse surgery and effectively end his career now?

[kcmets]

=ashie62 post_id=127896 time=1686163625 user_id=90]
Can deGrom say no to surgery and get paid something?

He won't say no but geez doesn't he know he's about finished?

[ashie62]

Not saying he would for a minute. Just food for thought



If the arm doesn't work when he's in his 40's he knows why



What would I do? Cue the anesthesia

[Edgy MD]

I'm not sure why a second Tommy John surgery should be considered a risk for loss of arm function later in life. Is Jeremy Hefner or somebody walking around with an unresponsive limb?

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why a second Tommy John surgery should be considered a risk for loss of arm function later in life. Is Jeremy Hefner or somebody walking around with an unresponsive limb?

I think I read that they would be attaching the ligament to a part of the shoulder that may not be as strong due the earlier surgery. They would be drilling the new hole very close to the old hole and the tissue may not have matured.

From that, I infer that this may make the new ligament not as stable or secure and be prone to injury with less stress later in life.



Can any of the doctors here confirm that?



Later

[Frayed Knot]

Well I can confirm that they won't be grafting a new elbow ligament to his shoulder.

[Lefty Specialist]

I'm not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.



Second TJ recoveries tend to not go as well as the first ones. There's scar tissue from the first surgery, for one thing. And yes, you're repairing the same area over again.



Jake better not try to throw 100 ever again.

[Edgy MD]

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why a second Tommy John surgery should be considered a risk for loss of arm function later in life. Is Jeremy Hefner or somebody walking around with an unresponsive limb? I think I read that they would be attaching the ligament to a part of the shoulder that may not be as strong due the earlier surgery. They would be drilling the new hole very close to the old hole and the tissue may not have matured. From that, I infer that this may make the new ligament not as stable or secure and be prone to injury with less stress later in life. Can any of the doctors here confirm that? Later

UCL surgery stays in the vicinity of the elbow, and not the shoulder.



What's attached isn't ligament tissue, but tendon tissue harvested from other parts of the body — usually the hip or the knee — to replace the damaged ligament.



I have no doubt the surgery can fail. It's happened often enough, and the second surgery is more prone to failure.



What I'm asking is why ashie would think the result of that failure would be, beyond the end of a pitching career, actual loss of arm function. Is there any evidence or history to suggest this?

[MFS62]

I heard a hole was drilled, I didn't hear where. Thanks.

Nothing I read has anything to do with later years.

Later

[ashie62]

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why a second Tommy John surgery should be considered a risk for loss of arm function later in life. Is Jeremy Hefner or somebody walking around with an unresponsive limb? I think I read that they would be attaching the ligament to a part of the shoulder that may not be as strong due the earlier surgery. They would be drilling the new hole very close to the old hole and the tissue may not have matured. From that, I infer that this may make the new ligament not as stable or secure and be prone to injury with less stress later in life. Can any of the doctors here confirm that? Later UCL surgery stays in the vicinity of the elbow, and not the shoulder. What's attached isn't ligament tissue, but tendon tissue harvested from other parts of the body — usually the hip or the knee — to replace the damaged ligament. I have no doubt the surgery can fail. It's happened often enough, and the second surgery is more prone to failure. What I'm asking is why ashie would think the result of that failure would be, beyond the end of a pitching career, actual loss of arm function. Is there any evidence or history to suggest this?

I was thinking of Sandy Koufax and his retirement speech talking about this use of his own arm



Two surgeries and years of hard use sounds concerning to me, not aware of cade studies that speak to this

[Frayed Knot]

Koufax retired young (30) not due to the effects of surgery but due to the lack of available surgical options.



And, yes, he did talk about retiring so as to not risk damaging his already damaged left wing any further. By that point he had been slathering his arm with hot stuff for years so it's s possible that the doctor on the top of his rolodex (ask your parents, kids) after his career ended was his dermatologist.

[ashie62]

I was reading a what if that argued Koufax would have extended his career about five years after TJ surgery



Clevinger and Taillon are double TJ's and both are active as starters currently