Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

[A Boy Named Seo]

=kcmets post_id=68377 time=1624033046 user_id=53]
Where did I mention Trump? By gubment I meant local city gubment. And again,

while that fear is understandable, it's unfounded because citizenship is not an issue

here and it is ignored by city hall and the (city, county and state) police.

[kcmets]

I know, and unfounded probably wasn't the best choice or words.

[A Boy Named Seo]

It's cool. I think I got what you meant, KC.

[G-Fafif]

This just in.

All fully vaccinated players and staff can stop wearing masks in dugouts, bullpens and clubhouses under the latest change to Major League Baseball's coronavirus protocols. In addition, fully vaccinated players and staff may eat in restaurants without restrictions and attend sporting events as spectators at venues with government approved safety protocols, the commissioner's office and players' association said in a memo sent Wednesday night. Kinexon electronic tracing devices and monitor testing are being eliminated, and compliance officers no longer have to accompany teams on trips. Social distancing and mask requirements have been eliminated for team busses involving fully vaccinated players and staff, and players and staff can resume arriving at clubhouses more than five hours before game time. Unvaccinated and partially vaccinated players and staff still must wear masks, but it will not be considered a violation to remove or pull down the mask to briefly eat or drink, before entering or leaving a shower or at the direction of the medical or training staff. Clubhouse social distancing was eliminated for all teams reaching 85% vaccination among tier 1 individuals such as players, managers, coaches and training staff. As of last Friday, 22 of the 30 teams had reached 85% among tier 1 individuals. Restrictions on team individuals dining together also were eliminated, with the exception that non-vaccinated individuals must still wear masks when not eating or drinking.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31654879/mlb-relaxes-covid-protocol-restrictions-vaccinated-players-staffhttps://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31654879/mlb-relaxes-covid-protocol-restrictions-vaccinated-players-staff

[Lefty Specialist]

For the vaccine-hesitant, there have been some 200 million jabs in America already and there are no mass deaths. Unlike the 600,000 who've died of this disease.



I get the distrust of government. I get Tuskeegee experiments. I get marginalizing minorities. But everyone has to do a risk-reward calculation at some point.



A doctor put it this way: You're going to get vaccinated one way or the other, either through a shot or by getting the disease itself. And the variants are out there lurking, so don't think you're immune just because you haven't got it yet.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Tucker Carlson told his viewers that 4,000 people in the United States have died as a result of getting the vaccine. So while nobody has actually died from getting vaccinated, there are a lot of people who think otherwise.

[Edgy MD]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: There's at least one other category - minorities and immigrants who have a DEEP distrust of the federal government, especially under it's most recent steward. I have a couple people in my circle who are Mexican immigrants and they feel like the last prez did everything in his power to erase them from America so they're not rushing to get stuck with his emergency vaccine. I wish they'd get jabbed, but, shit, I kinda get it, too. My city has a large non-citizen Ecuadorian population. I've read on fb community pages that many are reluctant to get shot for fear of the gubment. The fears are generally unfounded because we are a sanctuary city but I get it. I also don't know what's required ID-wise at say a CVS versus a health-care provider when getting a shot. I had to give a social security number and photo ID. Kinda hard to do when you have neither so not sure how that all works here. Trump had nothing to do with the Tuskegee experiments, the distrust of government amongst blacks in particular on the issue of vaccination/medical treatment is not Trump related, but i'm sure it makes you feel good to blame him for everything.

I don't know how the Tuskegee experiments come into this, but that's hardly the last time black Americans were betrayed by the state.



I really don't even know when this became about African Americans. Neither of the posts you quote refers to that population.



I wish this wouldn't be personal. I think most or all of us want to do what's right here.

[Ceetar]

I don't see what's so unreasonable about worrying whether or not the covid vaccines needed to go through more testing before being approved. Bad side effects might take a year or even more to manifest themselves.

why? what science is there to suggest there's any reason to think something about any of these vaccines has that capability?



It again comes down to education, and evil people manipulating their cult members for political gain. Tucker Carlson is a white supremacist, but he's apparently convincing a whole lot of people to be unsafe.





The minority community distrust is obviously fair. We've done irreparable harm over the years, especially the last 4. This is a systemic problem, and it's not unrelated to the Carlson thing. Those are probably some of the groups these various incentive programs are helpful for (and should've been started way earlier, with better education/targeting). "Look, I know you don't trust the docs, but just come to this CVS for a quick shot and we'll give you a joint and a bottle of vodka" goes a long way.



Also that doesn't really apply to sports/baseball. Almost universally, even the immigrants, those people are just taking random nonsense from the trainer with much less information/study than the vaccine.

[Edgy MD]

There are plenty of scientifically documented cases of vaccines backfiring — particular when people are under enormous pressure, careless, and/or shortsighted by ambition. Plenty.



Polio vaccines have saved millions of lives, but there are also polio vaccines that have given people polio, and killed them. There are dengue vaccines that have created a more dangerous, more resistant strain of dengue. I certainly don't watch Tucker Carlson, so I don't know if he's using these cases as propaganda, but I've worked long enough in the global health industry to know these cases are real and terrifying. A mistake that costs 15 lives is one or two small bad decisions (possibly made by good people) away from being a mistake that costs 150,000.



I'm not suggesting to anybody not to get vaccinated. I'm vaccinated and I'm glad my wife is too, for our benefit and the benefit of those we will be coming into contact with. My godmother has been hospitalized for months fighting COVID. I lost two mothers last year and I don't want a third to die. I wish to God she had gotten vaccinated in time.



I'm also butting heads with a social media crackpot claiming (and refusing to offer any supporting documentation) that the Gates foundation has been kicked out of India and many African nations over their (his) vaccination policies.



I think people who have opted to not get vaccinated have made a bad decision. But no, I'm not going to belittle them. I wish all our decisions were a black-and-white thing. In a nation of hot takes, we're certainly asked to believe that, but the world is a complicated place.

[Ceetar]

The Polio vaccine problems was nearly 70 years ago. If it's relevant in any way, it's in an example of mistakes we made and learned from.



As for the Dengue thing, it seems particularly complicated and political. There appears to be reports that the Dengvaxia vaccine has saved and estimated million lives. It's approved for sale in 19 countries. BUT political controversy and perhaps sloppy trial and study seem to have contributed to this unwarranted vaccine hesitancy in the Philippines which may have led to a measles outbreak and 400 deaths.



Neither of these, btw, were issues that showed up years later. Even the dengvaxia problems, the small chance it could actually create a WORSE dengue infection, was found pretty early. They're both also related to the thing they're trying to cure. It's not like they discovered that taking dengvaxia makes you more susceptible to Coronavirus or something. That's the straw man most 'hesitant' people seem to be referring to when they argue that it was rushed. it wasn't, it's the culmination of decades of scientific research. There were people arguing that it SHOULD have been rushed even, right around when stage 2 trials finished. But all the evidence on the ground points to extreme caution and adhering to the scientific process. Even the J&J pause that was criticized by many, was overly cautious.



There's really no evidence based reason to be hesitant. Maybe I'd buy it months from now, if we've actually reduced cases to almost zero, that you want to wait a year or two to vaccinate your 4 year old because it's not longer a pandemic and a large (but non-zero!) percentage of four year olds aren't really at a risk of infection, of spreading it, or long term side effects. (Not me, my kids are going to be first in line)



There is almost no tangible reward in a risk/reward calculation. The risk is astronomical. Like on one hand it's "new global disease like the flu that we constantly battle for decades or more" and on the other it's "uh, maybe one day it'll make me sicker or something?"



It'd be like being on a beach in the summer and deciding not to drink anything because it might make you feel bloated and then you'd sink and drown.

[Edgy MD]

I don't get how can say there's no evidence after acknowledging there's evidence, but it's not so bad. Remember, I agree with you.



And then you put a bunch of things in quotes that nobody has said.

[Lefty Specialist]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Tucker Carlson told his viewers that 4,000 people in the United States have died as a result of getting the vaccine. So while nobody has actually died from getting vaccinated, there are a lot of people who think otherwise.

You also have to believe the corollary, that nobody has actually died of Covid. Which of course his viewers would.



I'd like to think of this as the Darwin Principle in action. And I can guarantee you ol' Tucker cut the line to get himself vaccinated.

[Frayed Knot]

Back to the topic at hand for a moment: the team being under 85% immunized is also a factor in keeping the broadcast teams working remotely rather than traveling with the clubs.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Trump had nothing to do with the Tuskegee experiments, the distrust of government amongst blacks in particular on the issue of vaccination/medical treatment is not Trump related, but i'm sure it makes you feel good to blame him for everything.

Trump had nothing to do with the Tuskegee experiments but are you defending Trump's covid response, which was the absolute worst in the advanced world? Or did you forget about let's see if we can all ingest some bleach, the mask shaming, the fuck NY and its covid problem because NY is a blue state, the total lack of a coordinated national covid response, Jared in charge, Jared!, etc., etc., etc.



Or maybe you're defending his stance against immigrants. I don't need to go there.



[FIMG=333]https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5f9c1445d070eec8d50f0fce/master/pass/Miller10.30.jpg[/FIMG]





________________________



Opinion: Black people are justifiably wary of a vaccine. Their trust must be earned.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/black-people-are-justifiably-wary-of-a-vaccine-their-trust-must-be-earned/2020/12/09/4cf5f18c-3a36-11eb-9276-ae0ca72729be_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_10https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/black-people-are-justifiably-wary-of-a-vaccine-their-trust-must-be-earned/2020/12/09/4cf5f18c-3a36-11eb-9276-ae0ca72729be_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_10

[A Boy Named Seo]

Frayed Knot wrote: Back to the topic at hand for a moment: the team being under 85% immunized is also a factor in keeping the broadcast teams working remotely rather than traveling with the clubs.

What moves the needle at this point? For wealthy young men, there's no monetary incentive like some states are doing. If dudes are still really hardline against it, I don't know what changes that if the club isn't really trying to persuade them.



The booth might be working part-time for a while. At least Keith's Ring doorbell is working so he doesn't miss any UPS deliveries.

[bmfc1]

Tonight's BOS-MFY game has been postponed b/c of Covid issues on the MFYs, who haven't hit the 85% mark (like the Mets).

Per Martino, not even winning the pennant will sway some of the Mets from taking the vaccine:

https://www.sny.tv/articles/delta-variant-risk-mets-vaccination-efforts-playershttps://www.sny.tv/articles/delta-variant-risk-mets-vaccination-efforts-players



Maybe it's time to name them. Let them explain to the fans why they think that they know more than the Doctors and are willing to put the team's pennant chances in jeopardy as well as the health of their teammates, their families, the team's staff and, employees.

[Edgy MD]

That would be against the law.

[MFS62]

=bmfc1 post_id=71403 time=1626382000 user_id=73]
Maybe it's time to name them. Let them explain to the fans why they think that they know more than the Doctors and are willing to put the team's pennant chances in jeopardy as well as the health of their teammates, their families, the team's staff and, employees.

[kcmets]

=bmfc1 post_id=71403 time=1626382000 user_id=73]
Tonight's BOS-MFY game has been postponed b/c of Covid issues on the MFYs

[bmfc1]

There was one game scheduled for tonight and it won't be played.

As far as being against the law, thank you but that wasn't the point. Martino knows so others know. I want to know who is acting against my team's best interests.


https://twitter.com/MarlyRiveraESPN/status/1415790274073272330

[batmagadanleadoff]

Well Martino's not gonna expose himself to liability just so we could know. Also, nobody said it was a player that tested positive. Just noticing. Not ruling it out.

[kcmets]

Jonathan Loaisiga, Nestor Cortes Jr. and Wandy Peralta have tested positive so far.

Supposedly there are others on the back burner they may announce down the road.

[bmfc1]

Maybe it's not such a secret:
https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1415798840054194179

[Frayed Knot]

By saying "not all" he's not naming anyone because that phrase could mean anything from just one of that group isn't vaccinated, to all five aren't, or anywhere in between.

[Edgy MD]

His implication seems to be that The All-Star Break festivities could end up being, if not a super-spreader, a spreader of some sort.



Wouldn't be weird stupid if the Mets end up getting a competitive advantage by only having one guy in the NL locker room?

[Ceetar]

Martino is not a doctor and is not bound by Hipaa.



neither, btw, are the Mets, MLB, or any employer. (hence why they can tell us with reckless abandon that so and so has a stress fracture, a UCL tear, etc)



the Yankees ARE at 85%, though the one symptomatic outbreak was not. I don't know if that's Judge or not, but ...






https://twitter.com/MajorLeagueGIFs/status/1415100544255987717

[Edgy MD]

=Ceetar post_id=71426 time=1626392591 user_id=102]neither, btw, are the Mets, MLB, or any employer.

[Ceetar]

If a player wants to get the vaccine on their own and not tell the team, they're welcome to do that, and the team can't demand the medical record, but they CAN demand proof of vaccination so a bit of a catch 22 there.



If you get the vaccine offered to you by your boss, that's not privileged information. Likely the CBA or the employment contract grants the team certain rights when it's THEIR doctor treating you.



But if you tell your boss "yeah, I'm vaxxed" they can tweet that freely and legally. They can certainly tell the media that. They're certainly allowed access to the people that sign up for a vaccine program they set up on their property during their working hours.


[attachment=0]hipaa.jpg[/attachment]

[Gwreck]

=Ceetar post_id=71426 time=1626392591 user_id=102]
Martino is not a doctor and is not bound by Hipaa.



neither, btw, are the Mets, MLB, or any employer.

[Ceetar]

I mean, should I believe you, or the hhs.gov website? geeze.