Blasts from the Past

[stevejrogers]

I saw METSPOLICE on Twitter (there BatMags, no

vagueness of where this came from) suggest that Hernandez was not really on the Met fan radar, in terms of being a top tier superstar to consider it on the levels of Mike Piazza or Francisco Lindor in terms of bringing in a big name talent.



Yes, despite after a share of an MVP, several years after that SI cover heralding his arrival on the scene, amassing a decent collection of Gold Gloves and ASG appearances by that point, and to say nothing about a key figure in the previous October run for the World Champion Cardinals!



Is there anything to this?



Or is this opinion that he was a regular decent name player more on whatever fan base social circles Shannon was running in back in June of 1983 not being “aware” of Hernandez' star power?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I was twenty years old when the trade was made, and I knew very well who Keith Hernandez was. I don't think I thought of him as a future Hall-of-Famer (if I did, I apparently would have been wrong) but I knew he was an All-Star, a Gold Glove, and a former MVP. He played in the same division as the Mets. Even now, when I pay much less attention than I did in 1983, I still know the names of the star players on the other teams in the NL East.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I was twenty years old when the trade was made, and I knew very well who Keith Hernandez was. I don't think I thought of him as a future Hall-of-Famer (if I did, I apparently would have been wrong) but I knew he was an All-Star, a Gold Glove, and a former MVP. He played in the same division as the Mets. Even now, when I pay much less attention than I did in 1983, I still know the names of the star players on the other teams in the NL East.

This is pretty much me, too, all the way down the line. I damn sure knew who Keith Hernandez was in June of '83 and I thought he was a star back then.

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I still find it hard to believe that the Cardinals made this trade. They traded Hernandez within their division and got so little in return.

One of the secondary articles there mentions the reason: thin pitching on the StL end.

These articles make it clear that Keith really didn't want to be a Met. I've learned that sometimes when the worst thing happens, it can turn out to be the best thing. Keith probably knows that feeling. "I'm stunned and disappointed. I'm going home to check my contract to see if I can veto the deal." Apparently he couldn't. Good for him, and for us.

Keith made it clear in his book, IF AT FIRST, that he didn't want to be a Met. He went crying to his agent wanting to retire but was told he lacked the finances to do so.

He could have left after the season (another reason for the lesser haul in return) but by then had started to change his mind and, in his own words, 'took a chance'

at least in part based on his father calling some scouting connections who told him that the Mets had some good young players on the way.

[Frayed Knot]

I have no idea who METPOLICE or 'Shannon' are (and frankly don't care) but the way I remember the story was that Cashen & Herzog were casually tossing around other names, probably based

on the Cards looking for pitching, when Whitey first mentioned Hernandez ('Always have the other side bring up the name of the guy you want first' said Cashen later on). I don't think it was a

case of the Mets not valuing Keith so much as it didn't occur to them that he'd be available. Cashen, a bit stunned but probably trying not to sound it, said he'd get right back to him with some

names and the deal came together quickly after that.

[G-Fafif]

=stevejrogers post_id=67049 time=1623004634 user_id=57]
Is there anything to this?

[Edgy MD]

Allen was a good athlete with a tight little motion, and Herzog considered him and Stearns the toughest battery to run on, and putting together the runningest offense anyone had seen in decades, had perhaps an outsized opinion of Neil.



It seems uncharacteristically shortsighted for Herzog, but that's the kind of mistake you might make when you're trying to run a player out of town. It also speaks to what can happen when a manager runs the organization and the GM is just a figurehead. His heart got ahead of his head.



Hernandez, to his credit, despite being famously loose-lipped, never really comes close to running Herzog down in the booth, despite being in a good position to do so. And I imagine that's because he knows his side of the truth, and that's that he developed a drug problem and it cost him his job. A pretty good job at that.



Cocaine can cloud your judgment, but fear of it can do that as well. Herzog was trying to protect the rest of his team, committed to acting fast, and sold his player short. It blew up on him, but even a long, Hall of Fame career characterized by forward thinking and sound judgment is going to include a couple of gaffes along the way. Good for the Mets for being on the right side of history when he did. Maybe someday Frank Cashen gets in the Hall of Fame as well.

[G-Fafif]

Jack Lang's lede that Dave Kingman's days are numbered is classic forest for the franchise-altering trees stuff. Then again, when my friend called me to tell me we'd just gotten KEITH HERNANDEZ, my companion reaction, besides some variation on exultation, was fretting that the additional player being cleared from the roster amid the flurry of deadline moves, might be Bob Bailor (it was Mike Jorgensen).

[Edgy MD]

"Mex, you're my ticket out of here." — Dave Kingman, greeting Keith Hernandez in the Mets' clubhouse

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I recall listening to the game on the radio that evening and being shocked and excited that the Mets would get a guy from the cover of SI, and a legit All-Star, to play for them. I recall thinking that Ownbey might be a star but then again the Mets yearbook made a lot of org prospects look that way

[Benjamin Grimm]

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[Johnny Lunchbucket]

That was an unforgettable Astoria Stakes, that's for sure

[Benjamin Grimm]

"I jes' close my ears to it."

[Edgy MD]

Sadie F. and Box the Compass — a pair of fillies running in the 1969 Astoria Stakes or briefly massive 1983 synthpop acts with legendary hairstyles?

[Benjamin Grimm]

This really wasn't supposed to be about the race at Aqueduct, but whatever! I have to wonder, though, what's the deal with Basement Bertha demanding to watch the Yankee game? Is she just being a troll?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: This really wasn't supposed to be about the race at Aqueduct, but whatever! I have to wonder, though, what's the deal with Basement Bertha demanding to watch the Yankee game? Is she just being a troll?

I also kept wondering about that joke. I'm not sure I get it, either. Is the gag that she's Basement Bertha and that she prefers rooting for last place teams, which the Mets, historically, usually were?

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Yeah I think that's it

[batmagadanleadoff]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah I think that's it

Not much of a funny joke then, d'ya agree?

[G-Fafif]

Gallo was too upset about Box the Compass to make any sense or decent jokes that day.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah I think that's it Not much of a funny joke then, d'ya agree?

I think that the problem with Gallo's cartoon, for me anyways, is that when I first saw it, my Mets-centric perspective kicked in and I saw Bertha as a Mets fan only. So I wondered why she'd wanna watch the Yanks. But then I remembered that Bertha is a fan of both NY teams (I think).

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I think Bertha was regularly not that funny. To me the charm was in the effort to do it, and that it spoke to a certain NYC sports fan of the distant past.

[G-Fafif]

Bertha was pro-local teams in general. Gallo's cartoons seemed funny when I was a kid versus having been funny.

[Benjamin Grimm]

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[Edgy MD]

What the hell, Sadecki? They give you a four run lead and you walk Fran X. Healy?



It was 1972. Healy was pretty much the weakest hitter in the league, and you walk him twice?

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy MD wrote: What the hell, Sadecki? They give you a four run lead and you walk Fran X. Healy? It was 1972. Healy was pretty much the weakest hitter in the league, and you walk him twice?

Sadecki probably got distracted because Healy was yapping so much and wouldn't shut up during the whole AB

[dinosaur jesus]

That's quite a Metly picture. Mays in his first game as a Met, Staub in his first season, Series hero Agee in his last, eternal Met Buddy Harrelson . . . And a nice sample of New York baseball history, with 1951 shaking hands with 1985. And the team they beat was the Giants!

[Edgy MD]

Frayed Knot wrote: Edgy MD wrote: What the hell, Sadecki? They give you a four run lead and you walk Fran X. Healy? It was 1972. Healy was pretty much the weakest hitter in the league, and you walk him twice? Sadecki probably got distracted because Healy was yapping so much and wouldn't shut up during the whole AB

Healy sure came away from that trip to the plate with CAHNFIDENCE.

[Frayed Knot]

I was at the game for one of Mays' early NYM HRs, but I don't remember if it was this one or slightly later.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I remember watching this game on TV. It was Mothers Day and my grandparents were visiting. I remember the first inning grand slam and thinking that the Mets had a sure win. Except that David Peterson was pitching...

[Benjamin Grimm]

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The childhood sweetheart who moved out of the neighborhood remains young and beautiful, dog that she may now be.

Dick Young always keeps it classy.