Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

[Benjamin Grimm]

I've started seeing speculation in a few places that one way the owners can recoup this year's losses (perhaps in addition to giant advertising tarps and instead of additional concessions from the players) is through expansion fees. According to sports.yahoo.com/covid-19-could-force-mlb-152452691.htmlthis guy (And let's just pretend that he knows what he's talking about. I have no idea.) adding two new teams could yield $50 million to each of the existing franchises. (Which leads me to wonder if they'd add four teams and get $100 million each. Or six teams for $150 million each. Or...)



The article I linked is focused on Portland, Oregon, because of where the writer is from, but he also mentions other possibilities: Montreal, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Vancouver, Nashville, and New Orleans. I've long thought that North Carolina and Tennessee would be promising expansion options. You could put the Charlotte Knights and Montreal Dragons in the Eastern Divisions, New Orleans Pelicans and Nashville Sounds in the Central, and Vancouver Mounties and Las Vegas Stars in the West.



Is six new teams too many? Yeah, but I don't really care!

[ashie62]

The newbies would enter MLB in the spirit of "buying low". And why not

[MFS62]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: You could put the ... Vancouver Mounties ... in the West.

An homage to Jim Bouton.

My guess is if MLB is going to expand, it will go full bore International, with teams in both Montreal and Mexico City as well as Vancouver.

Later

[Ceetar]

Vancouver, Portland, two in Mexico City. for travel reasons.



Hell, do 4 more.



This would also lengthen the draft, something that's attached to some concern about the barrier to entry for all but the most talented children.

[Edgy MD]

If the union is split and some of the players are willing to come back to work and others aren't, we can play it like the wartime NFL and have a bunch of teams pair off and merge together.

[Edgy MD]

If the union is split and some of the players are willing to come back to work and others aren't, we can play it like the wartime NFL and have a bunch of teams pair off and merge together.

[Ceetar]

the way the country is going re: reopening, it seems like players might actually be safer playing.

[Lefty Specialist]

=Ceetar post_id=37153 time=1590088124 user_id=102]
the way the country is going re: reopening, it seems like players might actually be safer playing.

[G-Fafif]

Some thoughts on kickstarting http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2020/05/21/this-beautiful-game-in-these-challenging-times/http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2020/05/21/this-beautiful-game-in-these-challenging-times/this beautiful game in these challenging times.

[Guest 41Forever]

Some thoughts on kickstarting http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2020/05/21/this-beautiful-game-in-these-challenging-times/http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2020/05/21/this-beautiful-game-in-these-challenging-times/this beautiful game in these challenging times.

Last time we saw the Mets for real, in 2019, they were one big hug. Dom Smith had homered in the eleventh inning, the Mets had beaten the Braves, ebullience was in order. Whether you were at Citi Field or watching in isolation, you couldn't help but want to storm onto a busy street in search of nothing less than a high-five. You'd accept a handshake. You'd more likely hug a passing stranger without a pause to consider consequences. It was September of last year. Baseball still made you want to do that.

You are so good. It's not just that the sentiment is always spot-on, but the quality of the writing. Brilliant!

[ashie62]

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlbpa-expected-to-propose-deferred-payments-on-prorated-salaries-in-2020-season-negotiations-reports-say/https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlbpa-expected-to-propose-deferred-payments-on-prorated-salaries-in-2020-season-negotiations-reports-say/



Looks like owners offered a proposal to pay players on a sliding scale basis with the highest paid getting about 40% and the minimum guys getting their full salary.



MLBPA is "disappointed" and there is some speculation the union may ask for higher prorated pay with some money to players deferred to the future.



I would hope something could gain traction on the idea of deferrents of monies.



Of course its kinda like let me buy a hamburger today and I pay you tuesday. What would happen if a player has deferred payments coming and his team goes bankrupt? Not likely but they have to think about that

[Frayed Knot]

That is similar to the tack the NFL recently used to get their new CBA signed. Rather than adding 6.25% to existing contracts across the board for a season 6.25% longer (16 games to 17) they tied the extra

money to a percentage increase in the players' share of revenue and then skewed that increase towards the lower paid players. Since the vast majority of NFL'ers are at or near the minimum wage (more so

than in MLB) it was enough to push the vote to a slim 51.5%/48.5% approval even though several of the more high profile (and more highly paid) players strongly denounced it in the time leading up to the vote.

The biggest different is that while MLB players (assuming they approve) will have to live with it for only 1/2 a season while the NFL agreement is locked in for the next decade.

[Ceetar]

=ashie62 post_id=37452 time=1590531285 user_id=90]
. What would happen if a player has deferred payments coming and his team goes bankrupt?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Andy Martino, SNY wrote: Behind the scenes of MLB labor talks for 2020 season, it's calm and optimistic Tuesday's dust-up did nothing to change the industry expectation that MLB will launch its season in July The players want to play. The owners want to earn. A round of calls to sources reveals that everyone is surprisingly calm behind the scenes, and the PR/social media war is mostly kabuki. For these reasons and more, Tuesday's dust-up did nothing to change the industry expectation that MLB will launch its season in July. When we did our rounds of asking for reaction on the player/agent side on Tuesday and Wednesday after the owners proposed steep cuts for top earning players, we received a number of virtual shrugs. "Unsurprising," texted one agent, in a typical response. This is a contrast to the more heated online reaction of some players and agents. Mets pitcher Marcus Stroman tweeted that the season was "not looking promising." He wasn't alone in exercising his rights to say whatever he wanted about MLB's opening pitch. But behind the scenes, players are calmly discussing a first shot that they essentially saw coming, and deciding how to respond (the Players' Association isn't tipping the details of how it will counter just yet). Most players and agents know that they will have to sacrifice something in order to play. Perhaps they will agree to a much less punishing sliding scale of salary cuts. Perhaps they will accept deferred payments to their prorated salaries, as SNY reported last week was a possibility. The bottom line: Both sides want a season. Expect more rattling of sabers in public over the next several days, while the union lawyers quietly craft a response. By the weekend, the sides could be working hard on their negotiation, and finding compromises and givebacks that facilitate an agreement. Remember: No player wants to lose a season of his short career. And no owner wants to lose to a year of TV revenue. The sides remain highly motivated to make it work.

https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/behind-the-scenes-of-mlb-labor-talks-for-2020-season-its-calm-and-optimistic/313477094https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/behind-the-scenes-of-mlb-labor-talks-for-2020-season-its-calm-and-optimistic/313477094

[Ceetar]

I mean, it's Martino so grain of salt, but it does make sense that the public negotiation isn't the actual negotiation.

[Edgy MD]

If there's no baseball by July, Andy Martino will cover the continuing negotiations in a thong.

[Frayed Knot]

"Most players and agents know that they will have to sacrifice something in order to play. Perhaps they will agree to a much less punishing sliding scale of salary cuts. Perhaps they will accept deferred payments to their prorated salaries, as SNY reported last week was a possibility.

The bottom line: Both sides want a season. Expect more rattling of sabers in public over the next several days, while the union lawyers quietly craft a response. By the weekend, the sides could be working hard on their negotiation, and finding compromises and givebacks that facilitate an agreement."



The worst thing that the players could do at this point is simply fall back on the, 'we agreed to pro-rated salaries only and will accept not a penny less' line which was stated by several players and agents, almost

out of reflex it seemed, when this round of negotiations started. So, to that extent, the above is good news for now ... or at least not bad news. If they decide to push for their all-or-nothing demands then they just

may find the owners more willing to quit the season entirely if they believe that they'll simply lose less money that way.

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: If there's no baseball by July, Andy Martino will cover the continuing negotiations in a thong.

I will have nightmares until I can get that image out of my mind.

Later

[Benjamin Grimm]

https://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/jd052720dapr.jpg?resize=807x807>

[ashie62]

There is just not enough time to work through the acrimony.

[ashie62]

Every day that goes by with nothing brewing brings closer to spring training 2021

[Benjamin Grimm]

For whatever it's worth. I'm curious to know where this "sense of optimism" is coming from.



I do think they'll find a way. There's too much at risk not to. Even if it's too late for a July 4 opener and they have to open around July 15 instead.

Jon Heyman wrote: Though there's no evidence of progress in MLB/players talks yet, there's a sense of a bit more optimism, for whatever reason. Could just be because both sides know they absolutely can't let money kill the season. Would be devastating for the sport, which should be reason enough.

[G-Fafif]

The latest...

[G-Fafif]

[ashie62]

A glimmer of hope?

[Frayed Knot]

- The players want a longer season since more games means a larger pct of their original 2020 salaries. The owners, who claim they'll be losing X amount per game w/no fans, are just going to see this as losing more money

And then you're going to start with expanded playoffs in early Nov?!?! That would have to mean neutral sites which wouldn't help the bottom line either.



- Not quite sure how the two years of expanded playoffs fits in here. Maybe players are saying to the owners that that's how they can recoup any lost money, lost money that they (players) have yet to acknowledge is real



- Deferred money appears to be the same: we'll give up some money now to help you with the no gate sales thing but only temporarily and we want it back before next year even starts







I'm not sure this qualifies as anything resembling progress.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The owners' position, true or not, is that they lose $640,000 on every game that's played without fans in the seats. The players' proposal, to add another 32 games to the season, would then mean that each team would lose an additional $20,480,000. So yeah, it's hard to see this as progress.



Maybe the middle ground somehow involves guaranteeing the deferral, even if the post-season doesn't get canceled. Owners will make more money on expanded playoffs in 2021. There will most likely be some fans in the seats in at least some of the venues before 2020 is done. Whether it will be enough to make a substantial difference in revenue is unknown.

[nymr83]

if the owners say they'll lose money for every game why do they want to play at all? Why didn't Manfred invoke the part of the CBA that lets him cancel all salaries?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think they're saying they'll lose money every game unless the players agree to a second reduction in salary.

[Ceetar]

the expanded playoffs is just something they both want that has to be negotiated. 2 years is simply the terms until the next CBA.



I don't think it really matters what the owners are 'claiming' about revenues, since literally everyone knows it's a lie. It's just a thing they say to try to swing the negotiation more in their favor.



It's funny that they're cramming in games as the players constantly negotiate for more off days. But I guess they're probably expecting a push back to 82 or whatever. The schedule is complicated, you can't keep just saying numbers!