Less Wilpon?

[Frayed Knot]

Every baseball team makes tons of money each year.

This statement: "... it is now being reported that the Mets have lost more than $100M dollars over the last two seasons.", suggests otherwise.





You can choose to believe either side, I don't care. I'm just not taking either one of them as a definitive statement of fact.

[Edgy MD]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I suspect that Brodie was the architect of the Cano trade, and if so, that's a serious mark against him, one that he hasn't yet made up for. (But who knows, maybe he has some genius moves in his future that will put him in the black, but he has some doing to do.)

The Canó trade looked bad on its face, looks worse now, and strongly threatens to continue to tilt away from the Mets. I grossly dislike that trade, but I don't see it as a defining reason to give up on the GM or dismiss him as a not a baseball man. Good GMs make bad deals all the time. I think it's a far more nuanced net of factors that they are to be measured by.

[Ceetar]

big difference between



"The Mets lost money last year"

and

"The Wilpons lost money on the Mets last year"



first may technically be true, the second almost certainly isn't.

[Centerfield]

Frayed Knot wrote: Every baseball team makes tons of money each year. This statement: "... it is now being reported that the Mets have lost more than $100M dollars over the last two seasons.", suggests otherwise. You can choose to believe either side, I don't care. I'm just not taking either one of them as a definitive statement of fact.

The Wilpons bought out Doubleday's 50% interest for $135 million in 2002, meaning the franchise was valued at $270 million. They are now selling to Steven Cohen with a valuation of $2.6 billion.



That doesn't happen to businesses that lose $100 million over two years.

[kcmets]

Peter pays Paul.

Paul pays Peter.



Wheels on the bus go round and round.



Paraphrasing a Hillary quip re: Trump; the man bankrupted a casino, how the

heck can you do that be expected to run a country?



I expect one day years from now a book will be written about just how awful

the Wilpons have been for NY sports. If it's someone here who isn't already

working on it I want a free copy and an acknowledgement haha...

[nymr83]

Frayed Knot wrote: Also, it is now being reported that the Mets have lost more than $100M dollars over the last two seasons. It's statements like these which keep me from buying the ones we hear/read often about how every team Makes hundreds of millions per year every year. Every baseball team makes tons of money each year. The owners may not, if they've saddled the team with debt that is either unrelated, or used in connection with the purchase of the team, but the business of baseball itself is hugely profitable. And even if those owners run in the red for a bunch of years, the asset increases in value so those "losses" are offset.

yeah, the owners are going to play a lot of games with their books. at the end of the day the sale price of MLB teams over time should be the only proof you need that things are just swell for the owners.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Frayed Knot wrote: Every baseball team makes tons of money each year. This statement: "... it is now being reported that the Mets have lost more than $100M dollars over the last two seasons.", suggests otherwise. You can choose to believe either side, I don't care. I'm just not taking either one of them as a definitive statement of fact. The Wilpons bought out Doubleday's 50% interest for $135 million in 2002, meaning the franchise was valued at $270 million. They are now selling to Steven Cohen with a valuation of $2.6 billion. That doesn't happen to businesses that lose $100 million over two years.

Sure it can. It's baseball. So maybe the Mets were valued on how much money they'd generate when run properly. Also, there's only 30 teams and a team is up for sale once every coupl'a years. So maybe a buyer like Cohen will pay a premium just to get to own the team. This is a once in a lifetime chance to own the Mets. If Cohen's worth what's being reported, he can afford to lose $50M on the Mets every year for the rest of his life if he lives to be a thousand years old. $50M to Cohen is like dinner for four at a nice restaurant for any regular person. Even less, because when you have more than $10 billion, you have money you don't really need. You can't analyze these transactions through the eyes of a regular person. Or even a regular rich person. These are masters of the universe.

[Frayed Knot]

Besides, this doesn't mean the Mets have lost on the order of $50 million dollars every year over the decades. I'm not even saying that they lost that over the last two seasons, only that because we hear/read such wildly conflicting info from various sources means I'm not going to treat any of it as fact.

And, yes, most of the profit motive in owning a sports franchise comes from the idea of it appreciating over time and a great return on the investment at the end. But that's a lot different from saying that all these teams are locked into profits running into the tens (hundreds?) of millions each year simply be opening the gates and turning on the lights.

[Ceetar]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=29176 time=1578019303 user_id=68]




Sure it can. It's baseball. So maybe the Mets were valued on how much money they'd generate when run properly. Also, there's only 30 teams and a team is up for sale once every coupl'a years. So maybe a buyer like Cohen will pay a premium just to get to own the team. This is a once in a lifetime chance to own the Mets. If Cohen's worth what's being reported, he can afford to lose $50M on the Mets every year for the rest of his life if he lives to be a thousand years old. $50M to Cohen is like dinner for four at a nice restaurant for any regular person. Even less, because when you have more than $10 billion, you have money you don't really need. You can't analyze these transactions through the eyes of a regular person. Or even a regular rich person. These are masters of the universe.

[kcmets]

Not to accountant up; but balance sheets contain assets, liabilities and owner's

equity (net worth) and not profits or losses.

[Lefty Specialist]

One of the things value is based on is scarcity. The opportunity to own a MLB team comes only rarely. And 'losing' $100 million dollars can be achieved in a number of ways, especially in a non-public family-controlled enterprise. The loss they're experiencing is most likely due to their heavy debt burden, not the sales at Keith's Grill or the numbers through the turnstiles. Debt burden won't be a problem for Mr. Cohen.

[kcmets]

And really, we've been through this here and there a thousand times. In the

clandestine world of baseball, no one knows how much or how little these bent-

over humps make. They probably have four sets of books - a) gubbment books,

owner's books, c) MLB books and the d) leak to the select media books.

[nymr83]

=Ceetar post_id=29198 time=1578063114 user_id=102]
=batmagadanleadoff post_id=29176 time=1578019303 user_id=68]




Sure it can. It's baseball. So maybe the Mets were valued on how much money they'd generate when run properly. Also, there's only 30 teams and a team is up for sale once every coupl'a years. So maybe a buyer like Cohen will pay a premium just to get to own the team. This is a once in a lifetime chance to own the Mets. If Cohen's worth what's being reported, he can afford to lose $50M on the Mets every year for the rest of his life if he lives to be a thousand years old. $50M to Cohen is like dinner for four at a nice restaurant for any regular person. Even less, because when you have more than $10 billion, you have money you don't really need. You can't analyze these transactions through the eyes of a regular person. Or even a regular rich person. These are masters of the universe.

[Edgy MD]

Blank checks don't exist.



Thinking that being rich means you get to overspend on high-profile can't-miss assets is what got the president owned by Russia.

[nymr83]

Blank check isn't needed. The difference between caring about making 50 mil and be happy breaking even is Mike Trout on your roster.



I want the Mets owned by someone who doesnt need the money. Post-Madoff Wilpons arent that owner.

[Edgy MD]

So, then, 29 teams without a Trout.



And the one who does, the Angels, can't stop shooting themselves in the foot.

[Ceetar]

=nymr83 post_id=29309 time=1578277825 user_id=54]
Bezos ia running a company for profit. Presumably if Cohen just wanted to make more money there are better ways for him to accomplish that - he wants the best toy in the world and its orange and blue and hopefully beneficial to us if he doeant give a shit except for winning.