Seems like Mex17 really wants to talk Realmuto

[Centerfield]

...so we might as well give him a thread.

Price will likely be too high in my book. But discuss away.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

would be nice to have but I am not gonna get held up by the Marlins. these prices discussed here are more than we coughed up for Piazza for crissakes

[Mex17]

Grandal was benched during the postseason for his defense. Ramos has a reputation for being injury prone. Just putting it out there.

[Mex17]

I also think that Jeter can be had. There is nothing at present to indicate to me that he is (or is going to be) a good baseball executive.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, getting in the mindset that this is the deal that has to happen is another way of saying "Screw me, please."

[Guest 41Forever]

If the price is so high for Realmuto, do we maybe not give up on Travis?

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, getting in the mindset that this is the deal that has to happen is another way of saying "Screw me, please."

Right. Which is why Jeter got screwed in the Stanton trade. He went in with the mindset that he had to move him, and he had a guy with a no-trade clause.

Realmuto is just the opposite. Young, controllable good. Tons of market for that guy. Someone will give up multiple blue chips for him. I'd rather it not be us. And while he's a very good hitter, especially for a catcher, he's not a front line masher. If you give up multiple blue chips, you want someone back like Nolan Arenado or Paul Goldschmidt.

I think the ship has sailed on d'Arnaud. I think he tinkers with his swing too much to hit with any consistency. And maybe his throwing will be more accurate after the TJ surgery, but I don't think he'll ever have a quick enough trigger for his throwing to not be a liability. And at 29 he's not going to get any faster.

[Ceetar]

If you really really want a catcher, hunt Grandal or Ramos and don't forget that Kevin Plawecki is not bad.

Realmuto had a career year and you have to give up prospects. Seems like a buy high situation. On the other hand, he HAS improved every year, particularly in BB%, so maybe you can believe that it's only his career year until next year, and the year after that.

It doesn't feel wise to get into a bidding war where you give up a lot of talent for him though, and he has no control over it, unlike where Stanton just vetoed every other team so the Yankees got him cheap.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Never mind "should"s... I don't know that we HAVE the chips to get this done.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Never mind "should"s... I don't know that we HAVE the chips to get this done.

Depends what they want. maybe we don't have as many top-flight quality guys and they're not willing to make it up with quantity. Also maybe it's a bigger hit than a deeper farm system might be, and that makes it less worth it to the Mets. I dunno, but there are tons of players i'm sure Miami would make use of some of them.

[Mex17]

41Forever wrote: If the price is so high for Realmuto, do we maybe not give up on Travis?

I have had it with Travis d'Arnaud. I'm sick of his face. I'm sick of the little locks of hair that pop out of the top of his batting helmet. I'm sick of the injuries. I'm sick of the lack of production. I'm sick of the defensive liability. I'm sick of both the lack of production and the defensive liability knowing that he was touted as a good defensive catcher who could hit when he came over as the actual centerpiece of the Dickey deal (with Syndergaard as the "throw in"). I'm sick of all of it.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Guest

[Mex17]

Ceetar wrote: don't forget that Kevin Plawecki is not bad.

Plawecki is bad.

So is Nido.

At least they are if they are being evaluated as starting catchers.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Guest

[Mex17]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: these prices discussed here are more than we coughed up for Piazza for crissakes

I'm not saying that Realmuto is comparible to Piazza or that we have to pay the same price for him as we did for Piazza (although I do not recall Preston Wilson, Ed Yarnell, and/or Geoff Geotz leading the Marlins to any championships or even contention). What I will say is that we are in a different era in valuating players than when the Piazza trade was made (pre analytics which take the players entire game into account, pre-WAR).

Piazza got to the HOF pretty much exclusively based upon his lumber. Realmuto has better defensive skills. And BVW did say in his presser that he wants to be strong up the middle.

https://www.mlb.com/news/marlins-jt-realmuto-excels-on-defense-too/c-238590080

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Yeah, I don't look at him and see Piazza (whose throwing woes masked the fact that he was probably severely underrated defensively). I'm thinking more like... Lucroy or Victor Martinez... or, like, peak Pierzynski-plus.

Catchers his age tend to start breaking down within a year or two (see: the first two names above, and almost every other offensively-talented catcher who's played 600-700 games behind the plate, ever). That he's well-rounded raises his floor a little... but that lack of dominance (good-not-great bat, good-not-great glove, good-for-a-catcher speed/athleticism) also means he probably won't ever be the best-- or second- or third-best-- player on a WS contender. Meeting the Marlins' likely asking price for such a player would likely be... ill-advised.

[Mex17]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Catchers his age tend to start breaking down within a year or two

That can just as easily mean that we potentially benefit from the last two years he has left at his peak and then let him walk. It's a little hard for me to believe that he is going to start his downslide when he has two years of team control remaining.

It all depends on the price, I agree with that much. If the rest of MLB sees it the way that you and others on the board commenting about it do, who is to say that the Mets cannot competitively bid?

[Mex17]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: he probably won't ever be the best-- or second- or third-best-- player on a WS contender.

Let's put that through it's paces.

2019 Mets (if it goes a certain way)
-1st Best Player: Machado
-2nd Best Player: deGrom
-3rd Best Player: Conforto
-4th Best Player: Syndergaard


I'm not guaranteeing that. You would actually have to get Machado and Conforto/Syndergaard would have to stay healthy and consistently hit their potential high-end performance levels over an entire season.

You need solid complimentary role players on a championship team. Realmuto could be one of those if other pieces fall into place (along with the likes of Nimmo/Bruce/Rosario/whoever they get for the bullpen). Often times the complimentary players are the ones who come though in the big moments in a championship season. Just look at Steve Pearce just last week!

Edited November 5, 2018 by Guest

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'm not saying that Realmuto isn't worth having. I'm saying he probably isn't worth a multiple-top-tier-prospects package. I'm saying that Steve Pearce was a prorated portion of a 1 year/6M contract, and the Red Sox didn't even pay THAT much of it.

I'm saying that if the Marlins' negotiating posture is, "Bowl us over," then the return gambit should probably be something like, "Um, no."

[Edgy MD]

My crystal ball suggests the Mets are more likely to bring in a Wilson — either Ramos or Contreras.

Unsure what the Cubs might want in a deal for a young, all-star catcher who also plays the infield corners and the outfield corners, I'm guessing Ramos.

[Centerfield]

I can see us going Ramos too. If he can keep his production a few more years it will be a good move.

[Frayed Knot]

I think it goes without saying that there are reasons to be reluctant on a 245 (at least!) pound catcher with a history of knee and leg injuries.
He totaled barely 600 PAs between 2017 & 2018 combined and strapped 'em on for more than 100 games four times in his career and 130+ just once, back in 2016 when he played the full season
but then missed the playoffs due to, of course, a late season leg injury.

On the plus side he can really hit and throw and, at 32 next August, isn't quite as old as I would have guessed.
Downside (besides, y'know, the rusty hinges)? -- In a foot race with the Molina brothers he'd finish in a dead heat for last with Benji. And that's Benji now not Benji during his career.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: On the plus side he can really hit and throw and, at 32 next August, isn't quite as old as I would have guessed. Downside (besides, y'know, the rusty hinges)? -- In a foot race with the Molina brothers he'd finish in a dead heat for last with Benji. And that's Benji now not Benji during his career.

Ramos? bottom 4% of the league the last two years in sprint speed. (22.8 ft/s) 648th in the league last year, 97th at his position.

The Major League average on a "competitive" play is 27 ft/sec, and the competitive range is roughly from 23 ft/sec (poor) to 30 ft/sec (elite).

I don't know how he's 648th in the league though, when I sort the sprint speed leaderboard it only shows, minimum 10 sprints, 549 guys.

Only Brain McCann, 22.7 and Albert Pujols, 22.2 are behind him.

[Edgy MD]

Man, was I flunking biology badly until Brain McCann agreed to be my tutor.

In exchange, I helped him with how to dress and talk to girls.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: Ramos? bottom 4% of the league the last two years in sprint speed.

The lower 3 must be in wheelchairs.

[G-Fafif]

Martino floating a rumored Rosario-for-Realmuto deal as allegedly being discussed by the Mets and Marlins.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

would be dumb

[Benjamin Grimm]

What if it's a "Make Room For Manny" deal?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Then maybe. But in that case I'd prefer Frazier for Realmuto.

Wait, in all cases...

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ken Rosenthal wrote: #Marlins want at least one controllable major-league asset as centerpiece for Realmuto. #Mets have Conforto/Nimmo/Rosario, but would need to replace whoever they traded in FA market or other deals. Teams engaged. NYM aggressive.

Matz is controllable. Maybe we can hypnotize the Marlins into accepting Matz?

[Mex17]

If they trade Rosario for Realmuto and whiff on Machado, the shortstop options that are left from the outside are the likes of Freddy Galvis, Jordy Mercer, Alcides Escobar, and Adieny Hechavarria.

Do you think that McNeil can play short?

[Benjamin Grimm]

This is all just wild speculation, but I would hope they wouldn't trade Rosario until they had locked down his replacement.