Rankings Project 2017

[Frayed Knot]

Thought I forgot about this, eh? ... Not Bloody Likely!!

Actually, I kind of did. At first I didn't want to step on Grimm's Tabloid Project, then I figured it best to wait until after the holidays ... and THEN I forgot about it.
But now, with P&C only a few weeks away, it's back and [crossout:33lr0z7h]better than[/crossout:33lr0z7h] well, pretty much the same as ever.

Anyway, you guys know the drill: Vote (no state-issued photo ID required) for 30 players from 2017 and rank them as to best/least contributors to this most frustrating of NYM seasons.
And you get to choose your 30 from this outstanding group of 53 candidates - a group only slightly larger, and, sadly, about as charismatic, as the 2016 Republican field.

Hitters (ranked from most PAs to least)
REYES - CABRERA - BRUCE - CONFORTO - GRANDERSON
d’ARNAUD - FLORES - CESPEDES - WALKER - DUDA
LAGARES - TJ RIVERA - NIMMO - R RIVERA - SMITH
ROSARIO - REYNOLDS - PLAWECKI - AOKI - CECCHINI
TAIJERON - EVANS - NIDO

and pitchers (most to least IP):
deGROM - GSELLMAN - MONTERO - LUGO - HARVEY
WHEELER - MATZ - SEWALD - SMOKER - ROBLES
REED - BLEVINS - FLEXEN - SALAS - EDGIN
BRADFORD - GOEDDEL - SYNDERGAARD - MILONE
FAMILIA - PILL - RAMIREZ - RAMOS - RHAME
McGOWEN - CALLAHAN - WILK - GILMARTIN

[seawolf17]

Weird. I thought we already did this. But maybe not.

[Frayed Knot]

Second post of last year's Ranking thread (1/4/17):

seawolf17 wrote: We definitely already did this. I remember doing it. (Didn't we?)

I suggest that the mods put Seawolf into the concussion protocol; there seems to be a trend here.

[seawolf17]

Second post of last year's Ranking thread (1/4/17): seawolf17 wrote: We definitely already did this. I remember doing it. (Didn't we?) I suggest that the mods put Seawolf into the concussion protocol; there seems to be a trend here.

Old age is hard, apparently.

[seawolf17]

Maybe it's because I spend too much time staring at this list and adjusting. Oy, this team sucked.

Conforto
deGrom
Bruce
Cespedes
Granderson

Reed
Cabrera
Blevins
Nimmo
Duda

d'Arnaud
Flores
Walker
Reyes
Syndergaard

Lugo
Gsellman
Wheeler
Sewald
TJ Rivera

Bradford
Lagares
R Rivera
Edgin
Smoker

Aoki
Familia
Plawecki
Reynolds
Rosario

[Benjamin Grimm]

Here's my 30. What an awful year!

Jacob deGrom
Michael Conforto
Jay Bruce
Asdrubal Cabrera
Wilmer Flores
Jose Reyes
Travis d'Arnaud
Curtis Granderson
Yoenis Cespedes
Lucas Duda
Neil Walker
Jerry Blevins
Addison Reed
Juan Lagares
Seth Lugo
Josh Edgin
T.J. Rivera
Kevin Plawecki
Brandon Nimmo
Amed Rosario
Dominic Smith
Norichika Aoki
Rene Rivera
Chasen Bradford
Jeurys Familia
Paul Sewald
AJ Ramos
Hansel Robles
Noah Syndergaard
Phillip Evans

[Vic Sage]

[on edit]

Jacob deGrom
Michael Conforto
Jay Bruce
Yoenis Cespedes
Curtis Granderson
Asdrubal Cabrera
Jerry Blevins
Addison Reed
Lucas Duda
Brandon Nimmo

Seth Lugo
Neil Walker
Wilmer Flores
Jose Reyes
Juan Lagares
Travis d'Arnaud
Noah Syndergaard
Jeurys Familia
T.J. Rivera
Kevin Plawecki

Montero
R.Gsellman
Paul Sewald
Zach Wheeler
Chasen Bradford
R.Rivera
Aoki
Amed Rosario
Matz
Dominic Smith

i thought Harvey was such a net negative that i couldn't rank him. I was close to leaving off Matz and Smith, too, for the same reason, but i couldn't see putting in somebody over them who was barely there unless they had a Syndegaard-like impact. But infielders Reynolds, Cecchini and Evans, and relievers Robles, Ramos, Salas, Smoker and Edgin did not have that sort of impact; they didn't even make Rivera/Aoki/Bradford-level contributions.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

Youse guys was right. This was brutal to do.

30 - deGROM -- clearly the best pitcher in the lot and the only one on the team to have a good season AND go wire to wire with it
29 - CONFORTO -- best Runs Created on the squad, and even missing the final month he was 4th on the team in PA
28 - BRUCE -- kinda sad when the guy they tried to deal pre-season and then did deal at mid-season was the second best player
27 - CESPEDES
26 - REED
25 - DUDA
24 - GRANDERSON
23 - CABRERA
22 - REYES -- nice 2nd half saved him and earned him a re-up
21 - BLEVINS
20 - WALKER
19 - d'ARNAUD
18 - SEAWALD
17 - NIMMO
16 - FLORES
15 - WHEELER -- 2nd best starter had a 5.21 ERA
14 - TJ RIVERA -- if only he could actually play the field
13 - LAGARES -- if only he could hit
12 - GSELLMAN
11 - AOKI -- .371 OBA is nice fil-in work, even if only for 100 ABs
10 - MONTERO
9 - MATZ
8 - R. RIVERA
7 - PLAWECKI
6 - HARVEY
5 - SYNDERGAARD -- leading the team in ERA (2.97) counts for something even if only over 30-some IP
4 - REYNOLDS
3 - ROSARIO
2 - SMITH
1 - EDGIN/ROBLES -- I'll have to decide here. Edgin had the better ERA but Robles the better WHIP and twice as many IP




oe: and I just realized I forgot Lugo so I obviously still have some work to do here

[nymr83]

wow, so many guys getting points who deserve SHIT

Jacob deGrom
Michael Conforto
Asdrubal Cabrera
Jay Bruce
Yoenis Cespedes
Curtis Granderson
Travis d'Arnaud
Wilmer Flores
Seth Lugo
Addison Reed
Jerry Blevins
Jose Reyes
Lucas Duda
Neil Walker
Brandon Nimmo
T.J. Rivera
Zack Wheeler
Robert Gsellman
Rafael Montero
Kevin Plawecki
Noah Syndergaard
Chasen Bradford
Rene Rivera
Juan Lagares
Norichika Aoki
Paul Sewald
Amed Rosario
Hansel Robles
Dominic Smith
Phillip Evans

Edited January 28, 2018 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

Nymr83; you list only 29 players ^^^

[nymr83]

Frayed Knot wrote: Nymr83; you list only 29 players ^^^

I had a hard time getting the list past 15 really...

i'll edit

[Benjamin Grimm]

Me too, especially since I decided to leave off Harvey, Matz, Wheeler, Gsellman, and Montero.

[nymr83]

I left Harvey out as he was so bad for so many innings, the others snuck in on account of everyone else sucking.

I think what we need is a new way to incorporate each season into the overall rankings - finishing 15th in this one shouldnt count for shit.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It does count for less. Frayed Knot can explain the details far better than I can, but bad seasons like 2017 get less weight than good seasons like 2015.

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: It does count for less ... bad seasons like 2017 get less weight than good seasons like 2015.

Right, by a factor based on win totals.
So the 15th best player in a 66 win season, for instance, gets 3/4 of the point total that the same rank player gets from an 88 win season. 60 would yield 2/3 of 90, etc.
Bonus points are given for season which include post-season and increase the deeper that team goes.

No system is going to be perfect and we certainly make no claims (despite what BatMags thinks) that this one is.
The key is to balance a player's rank within his year vs the year itself so that neither factor is overemphasized.
So we fooled around with, and then test-ran, various formulas before launching this project and came up with the one we best thought mimicked reality.

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: Right, by a factor based on win totals. So the 15th best player in a 66 win season, for instance, gets 3/4 of the point total that the same rank player gets from an 88 win season. 60 would yield 2/3 of 90, etc.

I think that was a similar issue with win shares. A player who had a good year on an otherwise lousy team would get more win shares than a player having the same year with a better team. Or was that true?

OE: Now that I read that, maybe win shares had the opposite effect. Or am I getting confused? Maybe that's why I still like counting stats, and the newer slash line numbers.

Later

[Guest d'Kong76]

The bottom part of this mess one could really just do alphabetically?

Jacob deGrom
Michael Conforto
Jay Bruce
Yoenis Cespedes
Wilmer Flores
Asdrubal Cabrera
Addison Reed
Curtis Granderson
Travis d'Arnaud
Lucas Duda
Jerry Blevins
Jose Reyes
Neil Walker
Juan Lagares
Seth Lugo
Josh Edgin
T.J. Rivera
Brandon Nimmo
Kevin Plawecki
Chasen Bradford
Noah Syndergaard
Amed Rosario
Rene Rivera
Paul Sewald
AJ Ramos
Norichika Aoki
Jeurys Familia
Dominic Smith
Hansel Robles
Phillip Evans

[Ceetar]

Jacob deGrom
Michael Conforto
Curtis Granderson
Seth Lugo
Yoenis Cespedes
Jay Bruce
Juan Lagares
Neil Walker
Noah Syndergaard
Brandon Nimmo
Jose Reyes
Rafael Montero
Asdrubal Cabrera
Lucas Duda
Jerry Blevins
Addison Reed
Travis d'Arnaud
Wilmer Flores
Kevin Plawecki
T.J. Rivera
Robert Gsellman
Paul Sewald
Steven Matz
Zack Wheeler
Amed Rosario
Jeurys Familia
Nori Aoki
Chase Bradford
Phillip Evans
Rene Rivera

[G-Fafif]

30 DeGrom
29 Conforto
28 Bruce
27 Reed
26 Cabrera
25 Blevins
24 d'Arnaud
23 Reyes
22 Flores
21 Cespedes
20 Lugo
19 Montero
18 Gsellman
17 Wheeler
16 Granderson
15 Rosario
14 Plawecki
13 Nimmo
12 Lagares
11 Duda
10 Sewald
9 T Rivera
8 Walker
7 Aoki
6 Smith
5 Bradford
4 Familia
3 Syndergaard
2 Ramos
1 Matz

Honestly, could've stopped after three or four slots.

[Frayed Knot]

Perhaps all we need to know about this past season is that multiple guys who would have been described as significant pieces of the supposed best staff in baseball as the season began -- Synderrgaard, Familia, Harvey, Matz, and Robles -- are all currently outside of our consensus top 20 and two of those five are looking like they'll wind up out of the top 30 and point-less for this season unless some late voting from outer precincts changes things.

[Frayed Knot]

My revised list. Wasn't any easier doing it the second time as compared to the first, but perhaps it's more 'accurate' ... whatever that means.

Let's put a March 31st deadline on this for anyone who either hasn't contributed but wants to, or anyone who wants to update/adjust your existing list.
If you do update then re-enter your list (as opposed to just editing it) so I'll see that you made changes.
We'll put this thing into the books on April 1




30 - deGROM -- clearly the best pitcher in the lot and the only one on the team to have a good season AND go wire to wire with it
29 - CONFORTO -- best Runs Created on the squad, and even missing the final month he was 4th on the team in PA
28 - BRUCE -- kinda sad when the guy they tried to deal pre-season and then did deal at mid-season was the second best player
27 - CESPEDES
26 - REED
25 - DUDA
24 - GRANDERSON
23 - CABRERA
22 - REYES -- nice 2nd half saved him and earned him a re-up
21 - BLEVINS
20 - WALKER
19 - d'ARNAUD
18 - LUGO -- Actually the second best starter ERA on the team
17 - SEAWALD
16 - FLORES
15 - NIMMO -- decent production/small sample
14 - WHEELER -- 2nd best starter had a 5.21 ERA
13 - TJ RIVERA -- if only he could actually play the field
12 - LAGARES -- if only he could hit
11 - GSELLMAN
10 - AOKI -- .371 OBA is nice fil-in work, even if only for 100 ABs
9 - MONTERO
8 - R. RIVERA
7 - PLAWECKI
6 - BRADFORD
5 - SYNDERGAARD -- leading the team in ERA (2.97) counts for something even if only over 30-some IP
4 - ROSARIO
3 - REYNOLDS
2 - SMITH
1 - HARVEY

[Vic Sage]

I can see Harvey over Matz (I guess), but Reynolds over Familia? I'm not f(am)eeling it.