Infield Scramble

[nymr83]

Harrison looks ok...

[Ceetar]

I like Harrison previously but he seemingly started declining.

[Ceetar]

Ceetar wrote: I like Harrison previously but he seemingly started declining.

apparently that was 2016 and he bounced back. still doesn't really walk enough, but he's pretty useful.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: I like Harrison previously but he seemingly started declining.

This sentence also tended to work as an answer to "Who's your favorite Beatle?" after, say 1974.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Post reports that the Mets are one of ten teams on Ian Kinsler's no-trade list.

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — The Mets’ first choice at second base may be Ian Kinsler, but all that matters if a trade can be completed with the Tigers is if Kinsler has mutual feelings. Kinsler has a 10-team no-trade clause and he has a ton of leverage because the three teams most focused upon — the Mets, Angels and Brewers — are all on his list, The Post has learned. Thus, he would have to approve a trade to any of those clubs, and it is believed only the Angels are a near-certain yes right now.

This is a new wrinkle:

The rebuilding Tigers picked up Kinsler’s $11 million 2018 option specifically to trade him. The 35-year-old is coming off his worst season, hitting just .236 with a .725 OPS. But he still had 22 homers and 14 steals while continuing to be viewed as an above-average defender at second base.

If they really picked up his contract in order to trade him, then he won't come cheaply for some token prospect as you might expect if it was a pure dump of an unwanted salary. It may come to that, if the Tigers have misjudged the market, but it seems clear that they'll at least start with asking for more than that.

[Edgy MD]

I don't think so. The point of picking up the option is they believe it suits the market for Kinsler, or is a below-market salary, and therefore he's worth something as a trade chit, rather than just letting him walk. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll insist on driving a hard bargain.

Mets made the same gamble on Jay Bruce, and then they lost? And then they won? and then they either lost or won when they flipped him for Indians relief prospect and male stripper Ryder Ryan.

[Frayed Knot]

Not official yet but it looks like Kinsler is headed to the Angels even though they were on his no-trade list too.

Just as an aside on those partial NT clauses; players who get them don't necessarily choose those teams they don't want to play for but instead will choose the teams they think [u:24e9dfhq]might want to try and trade for them[/u:24e9dfhq] at some point during the length of the contract. That's why it's often the big market clubs on their lists rather than small ones since small market clubs generally don't make deals for players with big contracts. Thus the partial N-T turns into more of a complete N-T if you pick the right teams.

[Centerfield]

I'm ok with "losing out" on Kinsler. In fact, I'm unimpressed by most of these names I'm reading. Kipnis. Harrison.

None of these guys are any better than Neil Walker. And Walker doesn't cost you players.

[ashie62]

Walker wants a 4 year deal. Bejeezuz. Not happening with us.

[Centerfield]

Ashie62 wrote: Walker wants a 4 year deal. Bejeezuz. Not happening with us.

And not a single team has been rumored to be willing to go that far. Not even three.

No expert is predicting he will get it.

So in the same way Yoenis Cespedes wanted 7 years, he can ask for whatever he wants. But his ultimate asking price should be in the Mets' wheelhouse.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, the difference in years can often be worth a player or two, when the marbles are counted out.

But while this guy may be arguably better than that guy, and that guy arguably better than the other guy over there, I think Brian Dozier is pretty unambiguously better than Walker.

I got no particular problem with bringing Walker back, but I'd still prefer more of a table setter — high OBPs, top-of-the-order, base-running skills at some level, etc. On the other hand, the funny thing about Walker's 2017 is once the Mets traded him to Milwaukee, he walked like a fiend.

[smg58]

Lots of viable 2B options still out there. I'm in no rush.

On the third-base front, are the Orioles seriously considering trading Manny Machado?

[smg58]

For the record, I would have beaten the Angels's offer for Cozart (who will be moving to third base).

[Ceetar]

smg58 wrote: For the record, I would have beaten the Angels's offer for Cozart (who will be moving to third base).

I would've considered that as well.

[Frayed Knot]

Depends, I suppose, on whether one feels his [Cozart's] 2017 offensive uptick is real.
His 933 OPS / 141 OPS+ was his best ever by a long shot (769 / 108 back in 2015) and now for his age 31 - 33 seasons (turns 32 in August of next year) and no longer a SS where he at least used to have the advantage of being a plus defender.

3 years @ $12.67 per

Edited December 15, 2017 by Guest

[smg58]

I hope that means that Kipnis is Alderson's plan A and we're closing in on him. But I guess we'll see.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: smg58 wrote: For the record, I would have beaten the Angels's offer for Cozart (who will be moving to third base). I would've considered that as well.

Thirded. Last year WAS a career year, true, but his walk rate and hard-hit percentage had been trending steadily upward leading up to it; if there's regression to the mean, it should not be crippling, given what was paid. Hell, his contract has an AAV that's 4 mil more than a pretty good middle reliever's, and it's much cheaper than what we'll likely pay for Kipnis in prospect value.

[Centerfield]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: smg58 wrote: For the record, I would have beaten the Angels's offer for Cozart (who will be moving to third base). I would've considered that as well. Thirded. Last year WAS a career year, true, but his walk rate and hard-hit percentage had been trending steadily upward leading up to it; if there's regression to the mean, it should not be crippling, given what was paid. Hell, his contract has an AAV that's 4 mil more than a pretty good middle reliever's, and it's much cheaper than what we'll likely pay for Kipnis in prospect value.

Yup. And as I mentioned in the other thread, he provides Rosario insurance.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Mets may trade AJ Ramos for a second baseman and then sign one of the remaining "high-end" relievers.

http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2017/12/mlb_trade_rumors_mets_swapping_aj_ramos_for_second.html

[Edgy MD]

A perfectly flippable asset. Not a bad plan at that.

[Ceetar]

if Ramos gets Kipnis, you do it.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah you do but going out and buying another reliever might not be my first order of biz.

[Lefty Specialist]

Ceetar wrote: if Ramos gets Kipnis, you do it.

Without hesitation. Ramos did not impress me.

[nymr83]

I would definitely take Kipnis for Ramos.

Kipnis has had a very odd career so far - in 6 years both his offensive and defensive values had fluctuated pretty wildly - twice being very poor, twice average, and twice good.

just looking at his career line, he isn't any better than Cabrera. that's not to say he isnt an upgrade over playing time that would go to Smith vs. lefties or Flores vs righties, but he isnt that great a player.

[smg58]

If trading Ramos gets us a good second baseman and a contract for Addison Reed, that's win-win.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: if Ramos gets Kipnis, you do it.

If Ramos get you Kipnis, you start asking if they'll take Guillorme for Lindor. Y'know, before the Ambien wears off.

[ashie62]

We return to 2b.

Brian Dozier is still out there. He would be so goodlookin in a Mets uniform.

[Edgy MD]

Well, he's out there in the sense that he's still employed by the Twins at a below-market rate, so he's not exactly there for the asking.

But yeah, he's certainly better than most if not all options being bandied about.

[Mex17]

FWIW, Neil Walker came in at #9 for MLB Network's "Top 10 Second Basemen Right Now" program.

[bmfc1]

Ashie62 wrote: Brian Dozier is still out there. He would be so goodlookin in a Mets uniform.

The #3 2B in the game according to MLBN.