Ceetar

I do understand, but I also believe that even once we remove a bunch of these coaches and managers, the Mets will try to assign bullpen roles next year. I think the last pitch he threw was supposedly 103.

Edgy DC wrote: It also meant the world to me that Jerry used his "closer" first, and so our pitchers would be used more or less in the order of their expected effectiveness. This nearly proves, sadly, that keeping a closer in the pen in extra-innings on the road isn't a strategy that's about winning games for Jerry, but about pumping stats up for the overindulged big name. Takahashi may be the nominal closer, but he doesn't have the juice for that sort of treatment. I agree with this. Parnell seems the prototypical 'closer' in a way, and there is a post on Metsblog today about wanting to see him get the saves. I happen to like Parnell, I think he's got a good makeup and enough talent to be successful. So could he be the guy that would be just as good as Rodriguez that we were debating for next year? Leaving aside the idea that the Mets very well might not be able to void a contract, or the idea that we could get a manager and team next year that wouldn't be married to the closer idea. How should we use Bobby for the remainder of this year? I'd like to see him get some shots at closing games, but I don't think he should be pigeonholed into a "save situation" guy either. Maybe this is a way to go into next year with a guy we trust to close games, but is also new enough that there is no reason to 'only' use him in said situations. No ego to massage or stats to collect. Just our 'best' pitcher that we trust to use at the 'best' times?

I'd forgotten Misch was on the team. Expect a Oliver Perez sighting this weekend, if not today. All signs are leaning towards it. 1. He hasn't pitched in ages. 2. reports that he's "looking better" (I don't know how this can be when he hasn't actually faced batters) 3. The Mets have already not lost this series, and 2 road wins a trip is normal. Could be thinking it's house money at this point? 4. Bullpen tired from yesterday. 5. B.S. about missing-Frankie need to get more value from everyone else.

Parnell hitting 101. that's fun.

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: Basically, these team is not as good if they're using Octavio Dotel as a closer instead of Frankie. Even if he's making half as much. You never know where the other half of the money goes, or how much what it goes towards would help. Will it go to Dickey's arbitration? or a guy like Bay who underperforms? I don't know how else to read that. You never know how they're going to spend the money. Got it. You also never know how he's going to pitch. But based on what that money is worth on the open market and what he brings, he's not worth it. We simply disagree on how much he's worth. I don't think it's a black and white issue, and I definitely don't think it's an automatic or easy choice to just dismiss him. It's not like a trade where you specifically get X back. You have to hunt and pay and outbid and sign guys to replace him.

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: We'd all be better off if more people cared. But I have no control over the team anyway. Condoning behavior perpetuates it. That's sociologically proven. In a capitlist society even more so. The values we chase with our dollars are those we establish, and eventually reinforce. Ceetar wrote: I'm going to root for them regardless. I want my team to do whatever it takes to win a championship, and if that means not getting rid of a player that can help them do so, then so be it. Well the team that suits this sensiblity is doing very well for themselves in the Bronx, jockeying for first and defending their championship. Ceetar wrote: It's one thing if it was Ollie that was getting into fights, but it's not. No, it's exactly the same thing. Ceetar wrote: Basically, these team is not as good if they're using Octavio Dotel as a closer instead of Frankie. Even if he's making half as much. You never know where the other half of the money goes, or how much what it goes towards would help. Will it go to Dickey's arbitration? or a guy like Bay who underperforms? Listen, if you think there's no point in giving the Mets money because they're incapable of spending it, I don't know why you bother a lick. If the guy isn't worth it, they're better off not paying it. They're too stupid to do any better anyway just isn't going to get you anywhere, certainly not to your win-at-all-cossts championship. I'm not trying to say they're too stupid to use it correctly, if there is even any specific need for the extra money, just that It's my opinion that the Mets are a better team _with_ K-Rod, and that he's more of a 'sure thing' than money spent on a free agent, however wisely.

Nymr83 wrote: @Joelsherman1: Union head Mike Weiner on K-Rod: The #Mets actions are without basis and I expect the union will challenge them right away Leave it to Sherman to regurgitate the union's crap against the Mets. If the Yankees had tried to void Juan Rivera for stealing Jeter's glove he would have been applauding them for it. Or when Cervilli stole David Wright's glove last night?

Edgy DC wrote: Regards paragraph one, I really think you should care, and that we'd all be better off if more people did. I like having better conduct from my team than other teams. Madsen and Brown behaved like horror shows and I'm pleased as punch they didn't do it on my dime. I use enough time rooting for the Mets, so I'd like to see them stand for better things than the opposition. Regarding paragraph two, whatever the coming budget is, if this holds, it's about $32 million bigger over the next two years and six weeks than it was yesterday. YES! Do you really think there is any way under the pink Queens sky that the Mets can get out of their salary obligations to Jason Bay and Carlos Beltran. Why is that brought up except to confuse the issue? I wasn't trying to confuse the issue. And no, given the concussion and injuries, no one's trading for these guys. But say Fernando Martinez were to play amazingly and suggest he's ready to be the everyday LF next year? It'd be an interesting decision to trade Bay if they could better utilize the money by trading him. To me, the reason to void K-Rod's contract is to make use of that money to make the team better than 70IP by a good reliever does. We'd all be better off if more people cared. But I have no control over the team anyway. I'm going to root for them regardless. I want my team to do whatever it takes to win a championship, and if that means not getting rid of a player that can help them do so, then so be it. It's one thing if it was Ollie that was getting into fights, but it's not. Basically, these team is not as good if they're using Octavio Dotel as a closer instead of Frankie. Even if he's making half as much. You never know where the other half of the money goes, or how much what it goes towards would help. Will it go to Dickey's arbitration? or a guy like Bay who underperforms?

Edgy DC wrote: Do you really want to root for a team who has so lost their bearings that their players are threatening to beat their coaches and eventually committing assault in their stadium and continuing to collect ridiculous sums of money? Really? I really just don't care. really. Obviously, I don't want guys out of control so much that they injure themselves off the field. But he's hardly the first to do it. Madsen did it with the Phillies. Kevin Brown did it with the Yankees, etc etc. The reasons behind it are irrelevant. some guys are assholes (and the father in law isn't a saint here either, not that that matters) some are nice. I like reading about David Wright being truly happy helping out kids. But in the end, they're both just pawns. Sure, I grow more attached to some. I wouldn't be disappointed if KRod was voided like I would be devasted if Reyes or Wright left, but... I'm fairly confident that the Mets are a better team with Rodriguez on it next year, than without him. I think it's hard to say that the Mets are going to find 7 relievers that perform as well as he will. We can get into budget debates, etc, but really I just don't know what to say about how much the budget is and how much they can afford to spend on acquisitions nor how much they need to. Yes, if the Mets are a better team by voiding his contract and redistributing the money in a way they couldn't otherwise to get better in multiple areas, then for sure do it. I'd say the same about things like trading Jason Bay or even Beltran at this point. But right now as it stands, simply K-Rod or no K-Rod, I'd rather he was here.

Frankie not paid for the rest of this year. Contracted converted to a non guarenteed contract. someone with more lawyer smarts than me can explain that. I maintain that I want him back, because I think the Mets can spend the money they need to get better without needing to find ways to void guys, would probably 'waste' money on a lesser reliever to close next year, and it's just not a winning strategy to let talented players walk away when it's definitely not a given that you'll get similiar quality from other guys, never mind opening up the possibility that he goes to Philadelphia.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy DC wrote: The problem, like Hamlet's, is the law's delay. Until a court rules otherwise, an arbitrator can rule that whether Rodriguez violoated the clause by unjustifiably beating on a man remains an open matter. I don't know about that. What's the burden of proof in an arbitration? It's beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court. Also, what happens if no witnesses want to testify in a criminal trial? Does that mean that the Mets are without remedy? The other inquiry would be why is he still on the active roster? i know they've all but publicly given up and Jerry will just work a random reliever extra hard, but..roster move?

Reyes-SS, Martinez-LF, Wright-3B, Beltran-CF, Davis-1B, Francoeur-RF, Thole-C, Tejada-2B, Santana-LHP Castillo needs to be in there. Mets don't win two in a row, win on the road, win series in merely the second game, if at all, so It's probably a safe bet to put your money on the former Colt .45s. That said, Santana will probably pitch another complete game.

Actually, what I got from that is that Yankees doctors are so inept at treating concussions that they forced one of their best players into early retirement. Either that or they're subtly trying to push Lou off to the side now that Jeter has surpassed him in Yankees hits.

bmfc1 wrote: Sean Green is supposed to fill the open roster spot. I've heard Cordero as well.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Because having designated ninth-inning guys is a bad thing. Just because it's become standard, doesn't mean it's right. Jerry said in the paper today that the Mets will go with closer by committee, with the day's closer being determined by matchups. How isn't that good news? I hope it catches on! Because it's Jerry making the call. If you feel strongly about non-designated closers being the way, Do you really trust Manuel not to botch it in a way that makes people say "That's why you need a closer"? Also, 'closer by committee' still implies that he'll pull someone pitching well in the 8th when we get to the 9th inning.

Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, I can't see any scenario where it's a bad thing. There're a dozen better things to do with that money than give it to a good --- but not great --- pitcher who abilities are hardly being put to top effect. That depends on if A. you can get someone nearly as good (and given that you wanted to upgrade the bullpen some anyway, so now that'd be yet another good to great reliever that you're looking for) and B. if that money was keeping the Mets from doing something they need to do, which would be a bigger problem anyway.

I can't see any scenario where voiding his contract would be a good thing. Sure, he is and is going to be overpaid, but if we voide it, we'll have a lesser bullpen going forward. and that's bad.

Jose Reyes � SS Angel Pagan � LF David Wright � 3B Carlos Beltran � CF Jeff Francoeur � RF Mike Hessman � 1B Henry Blanco � C Luis Castillo � 2B Jonathon Niese � LHP Lefty starter for the Stros, so the Hessman part of the 1B platoon.

Those of you who are unfamiliar with Joe Posnanski: 1) You shouldn't be. He's the best regular sports columnist in the country these days, with the real good stuff coming on his blog. If you look at O'Connor and Matthews and Lupica and Madden on a semi-regular basis, and skipping Posnanski, you're doing yourself a disservice. 2) Almost all of the Jeter stuff is delivered with a wink. (While acknowledging that EdgyNY is a hell of a ballplayer, Posnanski's gently, repeatedly made the case that Jeter is somewhat-to-very overrated among his peers.) I don't read a lot of stuff on my own unless someone links it (I waste enough time here, and there and everywhere. I'm probably too relient on the idea that if a post/column is good enough it'll get to me one way or another and I'll read it) , and I dismiss most of those other guys. I wouldn't even have been able to name all the beat writers prior to Twitter. 2. I did think it was sarcastic, but then everyone seemed to be taking it seriously so I figured I was wrong.

metirish wrote: I wanna puke..................just form a big circle jerk and get it done with. Joe P furthering the myth that Jeter runs out EVERY ball. Wait, that wasn't a sarcastic article?