ashie62

ESPN'S PTI Kornheiser-Minaya goes Wilbon-he stays

="Nymr83":2m5n4mhf]="Edgy DC":2m5n4mhf]I don't think an Ari Fleischer should replace Minaya as GM, but it might be best if one conducted most of the press conferences. [/quote:2m5n4mhf] We have one, his name is Jay Horowitz and he does just fine infront of the media. Maybe he should be in charge of all press conferences?[/quote:2m5n4mhf] Perfect PiggiesTomatoes Jul 28 2009 08:40 AM Why was there even a press conference? Your player development guy gets canned. One or two paragraph press release and move on. The ultimate decision to have the press conference would have rested with sonny boy. Whether Omar went rogue with his comments or the organization miscalculated the response to rediculous statements by the GM, it never should have happened. That rests with Jeff. BTW...other than working for his dad, what has Jeff Wilpon ever done or run to warrant having such a role in a nearly billion dollar endeavor? Not that it's the bee all and end all but any formal schooling beyond high school? Any tangible business experience before being handed these responsibilities? That's where the problem is. Edgy DC Jul 28 2009 08:51 AM ="PiggiesTomatoes":nxv6ctzt]The ultimate decision to have the press conference would have rested with sonny boy.[/quote:nxv6ctzt] I wouldn't conclude that. Fman99 Jul 28 2009 08:58 AM ="PiggiesTomatoes":3a8q8lm6]Why was there even a press conference? Your player development guy gets canned. One or two paragraph press release and move on. The ultimate decision to have the press conference would have rested with sonny boy. Whether Omar went rogue with his comments or the organization miscalculated the response to rediculous statements by the GM, it never should have happened. That rests with Jeff. [/quote:3a8q8lm6] It's a good question, though. One that I was wondering about. Why not just issue a press release? Given Tony B's recent escapades, they could've issued a one paragraph blurb and they wouldn't have been met with more than a bunch of "yup's" and head nodding. Why even have the press conference, unless someone had it in mind to get into this Rubin thing? duan Jul 28 2009 09:04 AM the press conference was definitely intended to clear the air and explain why they took a few weeks to deal with this. It was supposed to be a "Look we're open and transparent" (although they've actually no need to be really). The stuff that's stupidest about the Rubin thing is the CLEAR implication of it was that if had been (say) BEN SHPIGEL from the NY Times that made the allegations it wouldn't have taken them so long to deem them true and therefore they'd have sacked him quicker. That's the biggest insult to the journalist right there. Edgy DC Jul 28 2009 09:28 AM I'm not sure there was anything clear in Omar's constructions. A Boy Named Seo Jul 28 2009 09:47 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Snoozeday's David Lennon seems to think Omar was on script, and that the Mets typically miscalculated how it would play. ]Adam Rubin vs. Omar Minaya: What happens now? 39 m ago By David Lennon So what happens now? How do the Mets start picking up the pieces after yesterday�s news conference went nuclear? And what effect will Omar Minaya�s bizarre accusations ultimately have on the careers of both him and Adam Rubin? I�ve covered baseball in New York since 1995, both the Yankees and Mets, and I�ve never been part of a news conference like that before. That was an all-timer. In terms of a media circus, that probably surpassed the infamous �Valentine-Stoner� event from 2003, after Newsday�s own report about recreational drug use on the Mets. To sum it up, Valentine acted as if he were batting while high, as both Wilpons and GM Steve Phillips watched in horror. Valentine was fired at the end of that season, more for the team�s woeful performance than his behavior at that news conference, as Phillips won that battle of wills. In this case, yesterday�s attack on Rubin is not going to cost Minaya his job. Not immediately anyway. And here�s why: I don�t believe COO Jeff Wilpon was upset with Minaya for what he said yesterday and I don�t believe that was a spontaneous assault on Rubin. The Mets� decision-makers certainly huddled at length before Minaya sat behind the microphone yesterday and rarely do team officials veer off the script. The GM also walked in that room with a full page of notes, so there were definitely items to cross off his agenda. It wouldn�t surprise me at all if Rubin was among those items. It�s never fun for a reporter to become the story, as Rubin was yesterday. As much as people might think it�s great to get that kind of attention, or that beat writers crave to be in the middle of that spotlight, that�s not really the case. Once we become the story, and have a personal stake in the outcome, it�s very difficult to do the job. We�re supposed to report on such conflicts, and when we become targets, it�s hard to defend yourself and also report objectively on people trying to damage our reputations. So why did Minaya take that shot at Rubin? Clearly, the GM was angry he had to fire a friend in Tony Bernazard, and Jeff Wilpon also was not thrilled by it. Both were close to Bernazard � they each admitted as much yesterday � and I think Minaya�s attack on Rubin was meant as revenge, plain and simple. Obviously, it was a blockhead move, but Minaya only half-apologized. He did not regret what he said about Rubin � only that he said it during the news conference. But again, I believe that was part of the plan. The Mets probably didn�t realize how bad it would come off � and it made them look ridiculous, broadcast live, on their own TV network. After getting battered in the media for a couple of hours, Minaya appeared with Wilpon in the back of the press box for yet another briefing, this time for the half-hearted apology. It was more spin, with Wilpon going as far to say that Rubin did ask him for career advice, adding that there is nothing wrong with that. In doing so, however, Wilpon actually pulled more at the threads that Rubin had provided earlier during his own news conference, when he talked about trying to gather information about getting into the baseball business on the development level. These things usually blow over in time, but yesterday was a fascinating � if extremely awkward � meltdown on a very public stage. Even in New York, that doesn�t happen very often. Sitting in that room yesterday, I can say the media members were stunned. It was a bona fide �Can you believe this is really happening?� moment. For the Mets� sake, they better hope there�s not any more this season. I don't remember that Valentine press conference. Any of you guys? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 28 2009 09:54 AM Oh I remember. I didn't think it was that bad, it was that Phillips and the Wilpons looked embarrassed when it happened was all. duan Jul 28 2009 10:03 AM ="Edgy DC":304opwj9]I'm not sure there was anything clear in Omar's constructions.[/quote:304opwj9] not in his bumbling sentences, but to me it was clear what he meant by "who's writing these reports" god listening to it again it's just horrible. metirish Jul 28 2009 10:09 AM ="A Boy Named Seo"]="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Snoozeday's David Lennon seems to think Omar was on script, and that the Mets typically miscalculated how it would play. ]Adam Rubin vs. Omar Minaya: What happens now? 39 m ago By David Lennon So what happens now? How do the Mets start picking up the pieces after yesterday�s news conference went nuclear? And what effect will Omar Minaya�s bizarre accusations ultimately have on the careers of both him and Adam Rubin? I�ve covered baseball in New York since 1995, both the Yankees and Mets, and I�ve never been part of a news conference like that before. That was an all-timer. In terms of a media circus, that probably surpassed the infamous �Valentine-Stoner� event from 2003, after Newsday�s own report about recreational drug use on the Mets. To sum it up, Valentine acted as if he were batting while high, as both Wilpons and GM Steve Phillips watched in horror. Valentine was fired at the end of that season, more for the team�s woeful performance than his behavior at that news conference, as Phillips won that battle of wills. In this case, yesterday�s attack on Rubin is not going to cost Minaya his job. Not immediately anyway. And here�s why: I don�t believe COO Jeff Wilpon was upset with Minaya for what he said yesterday and I don�t believe that was a spontaneous assault on Rubin. The Mets� decision-makers certainly huddled at length before Minaya sat behind the microphone yesterday and rarely do team officials veer off the script. The GM also walked in that room with a full page of notes, so there were definitely items to cross off his agenda. It wouldn�t surprise me at all if Rubin was among those items. It�s never fun for a reporter to become the story, as Rubin was yesterday. As much as people might think it�s great to get that kind of attention, or that beat writers crave to be in the middle of that spotlight, that�s not really the case. Once we become the story, and have a personal stake in the outcome, it�s very difficult to do the job. We�re supposed to report on such conflicts, and when we become targets, it�s hard to defend yourself and also report objectively on people trying to damage our reputations. So why did Minaya take that shot at Rubin? Clearly, the GM was angry he had to fire a friend in Tony Bernazard, and Jeff Wilpon also was not thrilled by it. Both were close to Bernazard � they each admitted as much yesterday � and I think Minaya�s attack on Rubin was meant as revenge, plain and simple. Obviously, it was a blockhead move, but Minaya only half-apologized. He did not regret what he said about Rubin � only that he said it during the news conference. But again, I believe that was part of the plan. The Mets probably didn�t realize how bad it would come off � and it made them look ridiculous, broadcast live, on their own TV network. After getting battered in the media for a couple of hours, Minaya appeared with Wilpon in the back of the press box for yet another briefing, this time for the half-hearted apology. It was more spin, with Wilpon going as far to say that Rubin did ask him for career advice, adding that there is nothing wrong with that. In doing so, however, Wilpon actually pulled more at the threads that Rubin had provided earlier during his own news conference, when he talked about trying to gather information about getting into the baseball business on the development level. These things usually blow over in time, but yesterday was a fascinating � if extremely awkward � meltdown on a very public stage. Even in New York, that doesn�t happen very often. Sitting in that room yesterday, I can say the media members were stunned. It was a bona fide �Can you believe this is really happening?� moment. For the Mets� sake, they better hope there�s not any more this season. I don't remember that Valentine press conference. Any of you guys? It was classic Bobby , up at the podium head shaking , eyes wide open ,arms flailing about imitating a stoned player trying to get in the hitters box and hit. It was the Grant Roberts incident that brought it on IIRC Edgy DC Jul 28 2009 10:15 AM ="duan":2hggzf4z]="Edgy DC":2hggzf4z]I'm not sure there was anything clear in Omar's constructions.[/quote:2hggzf4z] not in his bumbling sentences, but to me it was clear what he meant by "who's writing these reports" god listening to it again it's just horrible.[/quote:2hggzf4z] Yeah, but marathon has a valid alternative motivation to character assasination here, and that's that "this is one of the things we needed to check out." His bumbling attempt to bring Rubin into it was lame, but I'm not sure how to infer a clear meaning that the Times reporter never would have come up. It does seem like Omar is immediately backpedaling as soon as he's challenged. I agree that (1) they should have written a press release, (2) Rubin's name should never have come up, and (3) most press conferences should be handled by a spokesperson. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 28 2009 11:29 AM ="Frayed Knot"]And you think Jeff Wilpon orchestrated this because there's actually evidence that points to it or because heaping all the blame on the owner's son is fun and easy? In the humble opinion of my lone recent Mets connection (ex-Media Relations middle-management), on the off-off-off-off-chance that this was a calculated (if not well-calculated) move from above, it's Jeff. Of the two, Jeff's far more likely to hold a grudge. Just watched another clip. As G-FAFIF points out in today's post, the garbled-talking-points-like repeated use of "lobby" is disturbing. It's difficult to watch in a few dozen ways. metsguyinmichigan Jul 28 2009 11:41 AM ="Edgy DC":4j6lyoh5][ (3) most press conferences should be handled by a spokesperson.[/quote:4j6lyoh5] Hell no!!! You, as a fan -- and me as a reporter -- don't want to hear from Jay Horowitz in something like that. You want the spokesman to give you the stat sheet you're looking for and the game notes from last week that you can't find, or to call the Cyclones manager to set up the interview you want to do later. But you ALWAYS want to hear directly from the people in the leadership positions in a situation such as this. Doesn't mean the spokesman can't coach the snot out of the decision-maker before he goes before the cameras. But you want someone there who can answer the questions, not someone who can say, "I'll have to talk to Omar and get back to you on that point." I deal with this kind of thing a lot. You can't let them hide behind the mouthpiece. metsguyinmichigan Jul 28 2009 11:49 AM Chass says better what I was trying to say yesterday ... which is why he's at the New York Times and I'm ...... ANOTHER CONFLICT FOR THE METS � SOMEONE ELSE�S By Murray Chass July 28, 2009 The newspaper industry is dying quickly; we all know and acknowledge that. But can�t it at least die with dignity? Of course, to die with dignity you have to have lived with dignity, and not all newspapers and reporters have done that. Many certainly have acted with an absence of professionalism. Believe it or not, these thoughts in my head stem from baseball. As bad as things have gone for the Mets this season, with more injuries than a rehab center and fewer hits than Tiny Tim, they got worse on Monday. The Mets fired Tony Bernazard as their executive in charge of player development and bungled their way through a related episode. General manager Omar Minaya raised a serious, relevant issue involving a reporter for the New York Daily News at the Bernazard news conference, then reconvened reporters in the rear of the CitiField press box and apologized for bringing up the issue in the context in which he did. He was right in the first instance, wrong in the second. But in the second instance, Minaya was accompanied by Jeff Wilpon, the owner�s son and chief operating officer, which helped explain his turnabout. The Mets obviously concluded that Bernazard�s bad acts, among them challenging minor league players to a fight and screaming at the Mets� superstar closer on the team bus, compelled them to jettison the former second baseman. Minaya, following an in-house investigation, made the decision and passed on his recommendation to the Wilpons, who agreed. What Minaya didn�t mention to the Wilpons, though - and this was his mistake - was that he planned to bring up a related issue at the news conference. Adam Rubin, the Daily News reporter, who wrote the Bernazard story last week, did not have completely clean hands in his report. At the news conference Minaya disclosed that in past years Rubin had lobbied him, Bernazard and others in the Mets� organization for a job in the player development department. �When the report came it was by Adam Rubin,� Minaya said. �I had to tell myself wow.� �Are you saying,� Minaya was asked, �when he wrote the stories you were suspicious about what he was trying to do?� �No,� Minaya replied, �I�m saying I had to scuffle a lot when I made the decision because I knew the person writing this has been lobbying myself and others in the organization for a position in player development.� �Coming from Adam Rubin,� Minaya added a minute later, �you have to understand that Adam for the last couple of years has lobbied for a player development position. He has lobbied myself, he has lobbied Tony. So when these things came up I had to think about it. I said we have to find out about this.� Minaya reached that conclusion even though he was aware of Rubin�s stated interest in player development. �When the stories came out,� Minaya said, �I had to look at the stories and say look, I know who�s writing the stories, but I owe it to the organization to make an even more thorough investigation and expedite the investigation.� The Mets� human resources department, the general manager said, had begun looking into Bernazard�s behavior even before the Daily News reports. In response to a question, Minaya said he had never come across this sort of scenario in any other organization he worked for. At one point, Rubin, who was at the news conference, asked, �Are you alleging that I tried to tear Tony down so I could take his job?� �No, I�m not saying that,� Minaya said. �All I�m saying is that in the past you have lobbied for a job. You have told people in the front office that you want to work in the front office.� �Over the years,� Minaya added, �he said he would like to work in the front office, in my front office, not only me but he has asked others.� Again Rubin asked if Minaya was saying that he had a �personal stake� in what he wrote about Bernazard, and Minaya said, �I am not suggesting that.� When the news conference ended, reporters surrounded Rubin, who suggested that perhaps Bernazard had given Minaya the idea to say what he had. Is Omar lying, I asked Rubin. Anybody who says he was asking for a job is lying, Rubin said. �The most forward I think I have ever been,� Rubin began, then stopped and began again, �There may be some e-mail somewhere that they dig up, but my intention was always how do you go about doing this? That was always my intention and nothing more than that.� Explaining his desire to find out about working in baseball, Rubin said, �The way newspapers are going we all need to look out for ourselves. I�m 35 years old. I�m thinking about the next 30 years of my life. I�ve asked in the past how do you get into that.� Rubin said he had asked people from all 30 teams how one gets into the baseball business, but someone who has covered baseball for more than five years, as Rubin has, should not have to ask how. It has all been there in front of him. Much of what Rubin said sounded like good old spin. The saddest thing he said was �There is no conflict of interest.� But of course there�s a conflict of interest. I�m not suggesting that Rubin wrote the stories to undermine Bernazard, but whatever his intention was in speaking to Mets� officials about working in baseball Rubin created a situation that raised questions about his motives. That�s certainly how Minaya saw it, and he was justified in thinking that way. Rubin was wrong for not understanding it. I sent an e-mail to Leon Carter, the Daily News sports editor, asking if he thought Rubin was guilty of a conflict of interest. He did not reply. Instead I received the newspaper�s statement from the editor-in-chief, Martin Dunn. �This was a well-reported, well-researched, exclusive story, and it�s a shame that the Mets deemed fit to cast aspersions on our reporter instead of dealing with the issues at hand. We stand by Adam 1,000%.� The Mets, of course, did deal with the issues at hand. They fired Bernazard. But the Daily News editor-in-chief did not deal with the conflict of interest so I sent another e-mail on the conflict question but got no further reply. In the meantime, Minaya and Jeff Wilpon came to the press box for news conference Part II. Minaya apologized not for what he said but for when he said it. �That was not a proper forum for me to raise those issues,� he said. I disagree. That was the absolutely right forum. When else? When no one was paying attention any longer? A few years ago I defended and supported Rubin when a few of his colleagues on the Mets� beat attacked him for what they considered a soft interview with Art Howe, the team�s manager whom the other writers didn�t like. They were wrong because it was a legitimate interview. In this instance, all of the other writers and columnists are virtually certain to side with Rubin against the Mets because the way most reporters think the writer is always right and the team wrong. In my view, though, Rubin was wrong because yes, Adam, it was a conflict of interest. Edgy DC Jul 28 2009 11:52 AM As a reporter, you're right. You want the story. As a fan, I want the organziation I support to be representing itself with it's best face. And a guy who got his job by climbing up the talent evalutation ranks but seems indifferently educated outside of baseball may not be that guy. I've got a brilliant president here that we all respect, but we wince painfully when he goes off talking points. The man would have been smarter to keep suspicions about Rubin to himself and now the organziation has been ill-served. metirish Jul 28 2009 12:00 PM I do find it interesting to read what Chass and other journalists like PGIM have to say on this. Edgy DC Jul 28 2009 12:03 PM Chass certainly makes Minaya's statements a lot clearer than they came out his mouth. Gwreck Jul 28 2009 12:10 PM They're also accepted as face-value true, which I found odd. metsguyinmichigan Jul 28 2009 12:18 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 28 2009 12:39 PM "I've got a brilliant president here that we all respect, but we wince painfully when he goes off talking points. " I understand your point. But we LIKE when they go off the talking points because you get a better picture of what a person -- politician or baseball executive -- is really like as opposed to how he's being packaged. Omar should have known better than to have brought Rubin into it, and it was unprofessional. And Rubin should have known better than to have entered the fray. I didn't have a problem with him asking Omar to clarify what he was actually trying to accuse him of, because goodness knows it was a jumbled mess. But when Rubin tossed out the "despicable" line, he crossed the line. And that's a shame, because I think he's the best Mets beat reporter our there. He can let his opinion people use that line instead. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 28 2009 12:33 PM ]Explaining his desire to find out about working in baseball, Rubin said, �The way newspapers are going we all need to look out for ourselves. I�m 35 years old. I�m thinking about the next 30 years of my life. I�ve asked in the past how do you get into that.� Kinda the dirty little secret of the sports press these days-- with major papers slouching toward obsolescence, EVERYONE who's at all savvy has to be asking themselves this, no? metirish Jul 28 2009 12:37 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 28 2009 12:43 PM I for one have lost respect for Rubin . I do dread a Jon Harper taking over the beat if it came to that, or a Bondy. I like Lennon more anyway but Newsday the paper is a mess to read and the website just as bad. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 28 2009 12:42 PM "Dig up an email" doesn't sound too good. Crazy for Omar to be trying to put 2 and 2 together but I suppose Rubin did open the door for this kind of speculation as off-base and poorly-timed as it was. Here's what Marty Noble told me about Jeff Wilpon by the way. "You don't have to be his friend but you wouldn't want to be his enemy." Edgy DC Jul 28 2009 12:45 PM How hot is that next chatroom going to get? Ashie62 Jul 28 2009 03:38 PM ESPN'S PTI Kornheiser-Minaya goes Wilbon-he stays bmfc1 Jul 28 2009 03:56 PM Tweets from CF say that Jeff Wilpon apologized on behalf of the organization. So that's 2X the Mets have convened the press to discuss what they said. Well done Mets! NYPost_MetsJeff Wilpon spoke to reporters again today to give yet another Omar Minaya confidence vote: "Omar is our GM. He's going to be our GM." Mex17 Jul 28 2009 04:13 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jul 28 2009 06:51 PM ="Edgy DC":2irgauv7]As a fan, I want the organziation I support to be representing itself with it's best face. And a guy who got his job by climbing up the talent evalutation ranks but seems indifferently educated outside of baseball may not be that guy. [/quote:2irgauv7] Both of the Boston assistants that I have been touting the past few days have Master's degrees. Just sayin. Edgy DC Jul 28 2009 05:58 PM They may consider a press secretary job with the Mets --- greater team though they may be --- a step down. TheOldMole Jul 28 2009 07:40 PM Omar seems to fairly inept at firing people gracefully. This is not the worst flaw to have.

I run an online sports memorabila business and the funny thing is speculators are very often spot in in picking the correct guy. These days Donruss & Bowman put out a card the year a player is drafted. Most Mets customers are asking for one player..Ruben Tejada...secondary Lucas Duda and Ike Davis Say Tejada does well, real well, and so does Holt and "ranking of the farm system goes up. So many variable in rating farm systems

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3npdogpk]Beer: not terribly helpful for reading comprehension.[/quote:3npdogpk] Or Bernazards emotions Edgy DC Aug 02 2009 01:55 PM Daily News (but not Adam Rubin) digging up a lot more PLT stories about Bernazard. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/08/02/2009-08-02_tony_bern_out.html?page=0 Rockin' Doc Aug 02 2009 03:11 PM Hard to feel much sympathy for Bernazard the more stories you read of his vitriolic behavior toward players and staff of the Mets system. The more I read of his tirades, the more negatively Bernazard's tenure reflects upon Minaya and the Wilpons for allowing such an embarrassment to remain in their employ for as long as they did. Benjamin Grimm Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM Huh! Edgy DC Aug 04 2009 07:08 AM Oh, you missed some shee-it. Ashie62 Aug 04 2009 12:58 PM A little league first fight in Princeton, NJ? Darling the Eli must love that one

LETS

Uh..Fartinez,Niese,Parnell oh hell..Send Jose Reyes

="Edgy DC"]]�Can you believe this is really happening?� moment. As in, Can you believe the story we're getting out of this? Really..What a pissing contest..."Take that Rubin ya basterd, I had sex with your mother last night!" Omar, whispers Jeff, "his mother is dead" Only in NY and again, fear and consumption drive all media

Little or no effect on team play..at least not with Wright, it seems like he could of cared less or was simply embarrassed possibly. Winning cures all. 4 in a row tonight

It wasn't that long ago when Baseball America ranked the Met farm system in the Top 5. Buffalo may suck, but true prospects avoid AAA these days if they are for real.. Mets seem to have plenty of talent. maybe I'm missing something

I guess Omar can't say Bernazard had a moment all to common to active alcoholics Rubin & Omar should have to spend the rest of their lives on an island for the remainder of there lives starting tomorrow..

You Tube has pulled the press conference video. It will take an insane run by the Mets to get in the playoffs. The firing is part of what will the happy recap of insanity.

Kidding aside Santos may lead this Motley Crew in HR's

="bmfc1"]Of the starting 8 for the Mets tonight, how many should be starting in a major league lineup? Pagan--at best, a 4th OF Castillo--barely, I guess (this doesn't mean that I want him around my team) Wright--yes Francoeur--yes Tatis--perhaps as a PH but that's it. Murphy--at best, a backup guy (see the opinion that I linked to earlier) Santos--at most, a backup catcher Berroa--no Scoring this charitably, that's 3 major leaguers in the Mets starting lineup. Santos has more HR's than Wright Ashie62 Jul 24 2009 08:09 PM Kidding aside Santos may lead this Motley Crew in HR's Fman99 Jul 24 2009 08:12 PM 3 GIDPs through 7 innings. God damn. Wright is scuffling. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2009 08:12 PM Jeez. Now we need Francouer to hit a homa PiggiesTomatoes Jul 24 2009 08:14 PM WTF, Wright! Fman99 Jul 24 2009 08:14 PM Tatis seeking the rare 4 out inning. Fman99 Jul 24 2009 08:16 PM It's Muffy's time to shine. Tatis gets a hit, largely because Tejada is out of position. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2009 08:16 PM That is about the last thing I thought I'd see, considering how awful Tatty has looked tonight. Muffy's had a bad night too, of course... LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 08:18 PM ="Fman99":pxp4jdso]It's Muffy's time to shine. Tatis gets a hit, largely because Tejada is out of position.[/quote:pxp4jdso] Kind of a psychic double play, if you will. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2009 08:19 PM ...and that's what a country mile looks like. metirish Jul 24 2009 08:19 PM Frenchie never had a chance Gwreck Jul 24 2009 08:19 PM I know our offense sucks, but still. He was throwing home from like 25 feet past the infield. Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 08:20 PM 3 hits plus an HBP in one inning = zero runs LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 08:21 PM Razor Shines, ladies and gents! metirish Jul 24 2009 08:23 PM Holy crap that Aflac cry made me jump a bit Fman99 Jul 24 2009 08:24 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":al04wph1]Razor Shines, ladies and gents![/quote:al04wph1] Normally, two outs, you send the runner basically every time. But Omir coming off the dinger, and the pitcher clearly not throwing well, I would've like to see what happened. Meanwhile, the Yanks won and Berroa boots a ball. And so it goes... Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 08:25 PM Hey I got a good idea; let's boot another ball so as to set the stage for another couple of runs after 2-out and none-on. Kong76 Jul 24 2009 08:26 PM I don't get why he went home (I can't spell his name on the fly) and the booth is going on and on about why he didn't plow into Pudge which I agree with. Stupid and typical all around and it happens night after night after day. metirish Jul 24 2009 08:28 PM Understatment of the week at least from Keith, " Berroa doesn't move well to his right, does he" no he does not Kong76 Jul 24 2009 08:28 PM mi: Holy crap that Aflac cry made me jump a bit <<< Yeah, what the hell was that ... outta a back speaker and loud. Fman99 Jul 24 2009 08:29 PM ="Frayed Knot":mfuvnkt5]Hey I got a good idea; let's boot another ball so as to set the stage for another couple of runs after 2-out and none-on.[/quote:mfuvnkt5] Dude, they'll hear you! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 08:33 PM ="Fman99":1ib7otll]="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1ib7otll]Razor Shines, ladies and gents![/quote:1ib7otll] Normally, two outs, you send the runner basically every time. But Omir coming off the dinger, and the pitcher clearly not throwing well, I would've like to see what happened. Meanwhile, the Yanks won and Berroa boots a ball. And so it goes...[/quote:1ib7otll] Fair enough, but Pence has a good arm... and since he was playing in, he played the ball 30 FEET FROM THE INFIELD. Fman99 Jul 24 2009 08:34 PM Stokes get the out. On to the 8th... I have to believe that whatever schlub the 'Stros are sending out there to set up is someone that we can knock around. Santos, Berroa, PH due up..... John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2009 08:35 PM Francoeur is a big jock and a former football hero. He should have flattened Pudge. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 08:36 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 24 2009 08:38 PM ="Kong76"]I don't get why he went home (I can't spell his name on the fly) and the booth is going on and on about why he didn't plow into Pudge which I agree with. He was an all-state safety in high school, too-- all he did was hit. You'd think it would come naturally. Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 08:37 PM Hawkins was always good at sucking as a Yanqui at least. Kong76 Jul 24 2009 08:38 PM Santos = speed demon Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 08:40 PM Sac bunts, at this point, are merely GiDP avoidance maneuvers. Fman99 Jul 24 2009 08:40 PM Wasted out. Fucking bunting. Kong76 Jul 24 2009 08:41 PM Pudge tells me to sod off. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 08:43 PM You know, I don't think I'd get nearly as apoplectic about all the bunting if anyone on the team could actually bunt. Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 08:44 PM This season is just a fucking nightmare. The one time we actually do score a couple runs for Santana is one of the few he gives up a bunch. Meanwhile we've got, what now, like 13 hits plus 4 or 5 walks and an HBP and 4 runs to show for ti? Kong76 Jul 24 2009 08:47 PM LWFS: apoplectic <<< I'm gonna have to go look that up ... be right back. Fman99 Jul 24 2009 08:48 PM It's up to Luis, two outs, first and third. Castillo is locked in tonight. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2009 08:49 PM We need Castillo's 4th hit. Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 08:51 PM Mutha-Fucka!!!!! John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2009 08:52 PM This fucking team. The Astros rally for everything they've got with 2 out, no on (Santana is on my shit list by the way for these kinds of failures too often). The Mets in the meantime get 65 guys on base an inning and can't score shit. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 08:54 PM Kong76 Jul 24 2009 08:57 PM Won't be long before the 'was signing Santana worth it?' drums start beating. -------------- Apoplectic ... my new favorite word. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 08:58 PM ="Kong76":3frlbvva]Won't be long before the 'was signing Santana worth it?' drums start beating. -------------- Apoplectic ... my new favorite word.[/quote:3frlbvva] Ha. At least you got something out of tonight. Fman99 Jul 24 2009 09:00 PM Parnell hitting triple digits on the radar. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2009 09:02 PM OK, Get Up. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 09:02 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 24 2009 09:04 PM Hey-- it's all good. Heart of the order's coming up. Yeah, I couldn't keep a straight face, either. LETS PiggiesTomatoes Jul 24 2009 09:02 PM My shirt is off and I'm calling out all 25 of these mother fuckers, right now! Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 09:07 PM Didn't even make it interesting. PiggiesTomatoes Jul 24 2009 09:07 PM ="PiggiesTomatoes":3mr31mcg]My shirt is off and I'm calling out all 25 of these mother fuckers, right now![/quote:3mr31mcg] Same effect Tony B. had in Bingoland. Hope I don't lose my job. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 09:08 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 24 2009 09:10 PM GET LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 09:09 PM A NEW HOBBY! Kong76 Jul 24 2009 09:13 PM Good REM video anyway ... dreams, they complicate my life. Frayed Knot Jul 25 2009 11:24 AM Adam Rubin: Jeff Francoeur said he felt like a �pansy� not bowling over Pudge Rodriguez on an aggressive (ill-advised?) send by third base coach Razor Shines in the seventh with the Mets trailing by a run. Francoeur, a former Clemson football recruit, said Rodriguez veered on him and he missed lining him up. At least he had the intention of bowling over Rodriguez. �I started going to the outside and he went back on the inside for the tag,� Francoeur said. Rockin' Doc Jul 25 2009 01:34 PM Francoeur must have been a hell of a hitter in his football days. "I meant to tackle him coach, but he moved on me." MFS62 Jul 25 2009 01:52 PM Losing hurts. Losing to Hampton hurt even more. Later metirish Jul 25 2009 02:12 PM ="MFS62":3vh9vwdm]Losing hurts. Losing to Hampton hurt even more. Later[/quote:3vh9vwdm] Really? , it such old hat that

="Edgy DC":iepfhz1q]He absolutely danced around even the existence of steroids in The New Bill James Historical Abstract, using all sorts of other explanations to explain the offensive outburst of the nineties. At one point, I think, explaining some player, he threw up his hands, more willing to delare the matter inexplicable than to introduce the possilbitiy of PEDs. Now he appears to be of a mind with Canseco.[/quote:iepfhz1q] It also reminds me of an explanation Spock would give on the issue to a bulked up Kirk John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2009 11:49 AM Well, I'd hope against pills allowing everyone to live to age 300. I do think he's right that the epidemic will have to be viewed as inseparable from the game itself, and not cheating so much as playing the game the way it was played at the time. I also liked Will Clark. Valadius Jul 24 2009 01:10 PM I most agree with the second argument. The first argument is batshit crazy. Edgy DC Jul 24 2009 01:35 PM Putting aside the brave new world aspects of the argument, the first two argumetns resemble each other. They're about normalization. When drug enhanced lives become more common in our culture it'll become less of an impulse to define drug-enchanged baseball players as deviants. Simlarly when some drug enhanced players enter the Hall of Fame, it'll become less of an impulse to define drug-enchanged baseball players as deviants. He deals in what he expects will happen and explicitly sidesteps what ought to happen. But he gets that in by implication. Seemingly he suggests that surrendering to history is inevitable, therefore as ethical a choice as can be made. I guess we should surrender forthwith, but I don't wanna. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 01:37 PM His first argument kinda-sorta holds, but only if you strike "steroids" and substitute "HGH;" even then, it's a little problematic. As it stands... well... "full of shit" comes more readily to mind than "batshit." It's like he's tossing it out there as a warmup, as he realizes it's the most out-there. The second-through-fourth arguments are fairly convincing. The fifth is damning, and would be a lot more effective... if the voting body weren't, you know, guys who-- as a majority-- professionally take the morality of the game (including its "unwritten rules") a bit too seriously, and have no problem sitting in judgement of MLB as well as its players. I thought Will Clark was alright until I heard some of the locker-room stories-- he wasn't exactlya writer's favorite, apparently). Edgy DC Jul 24 2009 01:53 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":v1qs82h7]I thought Will Clark was alright until I heard some of the locker-room stories-- he wasn't exactlya writer's favorite,[/url:v1qs82h7] apparently[/url:v1qs82h7]).[/quote:v1qs82h7] How fitting that, at the end of that second link comes 13-year-old news that a Met has been injured. Farmer Ted Jul 24 2009 02:50 PM Does anyone recall the controversy several years ago when the Orioles played Cuba in an exhibition game? It was a State Department nightmare and had Little Havana going crazy. Will Clark was interviewed before the game and asked about playing Fidel's finest and the implications of giving credence to Castro and his human rights atrocities. Clark's response, "Hey, I'm just a ball player." Advantage Pearlman. MFS62 Jul 24 2009 02:57 PM It doesn't seem the same when Bill James speaks without numbers. Later Valadius Jul 24 2009 02:59 PM I remember that. I was only a kid then, and it didn't seem like such a big deal to me at the time. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 03:13 PM ="Farmer Ted":3fd2b9ch]Does anyone recall the controversy several years ago when the Orioles played Cuba in an exhibition game? It was a State Department nightmare and had Little Havana going crazy. Will Clark was interviewed before the game and asked about playing Fidel's finest and the implications of giving credence to Castro and his human rights atrocities. Clark's response, "Hey, I'm just a ball player." Advantage Pearlman.[/quote:3fd2b9ch] Hey, to be fair, Castro didn't hang Rocker out to dry or nothing. Edgy DC Jul 24 2009 05:02 PM ="MFS62":3bivg232]It doesn't seem the same when Bill James speaks without numbers. Later[/quote:3bivg232] I think his prose is historically more illuminating than his statistical work. Fman99 Jul 24 2009 08:08 PM

Again..Rotoworld from CBS that Reyes wants to return as soon as possible and realizes he may not be 100% this but will play at 80% Fine by me, management? maybe..he can re-recover in October

Well, thats an interesting take..very heady.

The official Mets fedora would be that of ex-signman Karl Ehrhardt?

Pagan?

="Frayed Knot":p8keo0dg]="metirish":p8keo0dg]Chris Duncan is a meat head , or is that his brother?[/quote:p8keo0dg][/quote:p8keo0dg] All Duncans are meat-heads. Including Sandy I'm told. Would that be MFY AAA meathead Shelly Duncan or the pixie actress of stage and screen possibly? Nymr83 Jul 24 2009 10:54 AM ]The Athletics and Cardinals have completed a trade that sends outfielder Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen, sources confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney. Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 11:05 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 24 2009 11:10 AM ="Nymr83"]The Athletics and Cardinals have completed a trade that sends outfielder Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen, sources confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney. Wallace is the interesting name here. Considered to be among the best college bats to come along in many years, he was passed over by a number of teams (StL got him with the #13 pick) out of concern for where he'd play. In short, he's HUGE!, and huge as in wide not as in tall (BB-Ref lists him at 6' 1" - 245). In 'Moneyball' terms (since he's headed to Oakland) "he wears a big pair of underwear". The thought is that he'll be a DH sooner rather than later which isn't a great thing to be saying about a guy not yet 23 y/o. For now, they say his hands are at least decent and he's not as immobile as he looks. But, above all, he can rake. Already at AAA barely a year after signing, he blew through three different levels in between and will probably be in Oakland before the year is out. But, man, Oakland sounds like they're putting together slow-pitch softball teams again. Between Giambi, Jack Cust, Daric Barton (also snagged in a trade w/StL - for Mulder) and now Wallace they've got at least 4 'stocky' (I'm being nice here) 1B/DH types not seen since the days when the brothers Giambi were teamed with Matt Stairs & John Jaha. Edgy DC Jul 24 2009 11:09 AM I saw some on him. I liked his waddle. Like a lefthanded Bob Horner. Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 01:28 PM Or maybe the lefty who ate Bob Horner. A quick peak at a Cardinal board showed an overall (though not universal) negative reaction - more based on thinking they gave up too much for a 2-month rental whose XBHs have trended from 84, 92, 65, 60 (proj) over the last 4 years than it was in thinking that either of the top 2 prospects were sure-fire studs. This Shane Peterson who went in the deal was their 2nd round pick from '08, the one right after they selected Wallace. There's also a story (Heyman) that LaRussa pushed for this in part because he didn't like and wasn't consulted on the Chris Duncan/Julio Lugo swap (and I don't guess his pitching coach was too high on it either). And, of course, the deal is made just in time so the Yanx don't have to see Holliday as Oakland is in NYC starting tonight. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 01:48 PM ="Frayed Knot"]Or maybe the lefty who ate Bob Horner. A quick peak at a Cardinal board showed an overall (though not universal) negative reaction - more based on thinking they gave up too much for a 2-month rental whose XBHs have trended from 84, 92, 65, 60 (proj) over the last 4 years than it was in thinking that either of the top 2 prospects were sure-fire studs. This Shane Peterson who went in the deal was their 2nd round pick from '08, the one right after they selected Wallace. There's also a story (Heyman) that LaRussa pushed for this in part because he didn't like and wasn't consulted on the Chris Duncan/Julio Lugo swap (and I don't guess his pitching coach was too high on it either). And, of course, the deal is made just in time so the Yanx don't have to see Holliday as Oakland is in NYC starting tonight. Just goes to show you how much of a buyer's market this is; the sheer number of potential in-it-to-win-it teams the last two years has resuscitated the good-old-fashioned deadline deal, however briefly, even in the face of cost constraints and the rising value of FA-compensatory draft picks. (Although it kinda seemed from Day One that Beane had an eye toward Holliday's departure-- like they acquired him almost exclusively like a short-sell, either for the draft picks or the trade value-- didn't it?) LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 27 2009 01:24 AM Consider the source, but still-- Re-heeeeeally? ]The Rangers remain in the market for a bat, with the Indians' Ryan Garko and Mets' Gary Sheffield among their targets, even though Sheffield currently is on the disabled list. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9854856/BoSox-involved-in-Halladay-talks-and-more- seawolf17 Jul 27 2009 08:07 AM I wish he hadn't gotten hurt, because I think Sheffield -- and possibly Livan -- are the Mets two best trading chips right now. I read somewhere recently that Sheffield would revolt if he got dealt, though, so as always with him, it'd be buyer beware. Frayed Knot Jul 27 2009 08:42 AM Sheffield always threatens to revolt - but the thing is, this time he could easily make it stick. He was all but ready to retire anyway after being released by Detroit; he had $14mil coming to him and nothing monetarily to gain from playing unless he's really lying and is secretly dying to play next year too only for a fraction of this year's salary. But the Mets (he claims) were a good fit for him and so he took the gig when offered. But now if dealt somewhere he doesn't like (I don't think he has any No-Trade protection) he can simply walk-away rather than pull up stakes and move across the country for 9 weeks and not lost a thing except a possible shot at another ring.

The only time I have taken my shirt off at work, dress shirt or otherwise would be while taking a 10 minute crap on a warm day in a poorly ventilated office bathroom

="Edgy DC":3o35ba15]EdgyProspectus is projecting that the 1,000th Met will be Wesley Wrenn, currently a righthander for the Brooklyn Cyclones, out of the Citadel, which now allows yucky girls.[/quote:3o35ba15] AshieProspectus is predicting Shannon Faulkner will be the 1001st

I hate that show. I felt the need to share. Thank you

="Edgy DC"]I have to say that I'm not sure what people are looking for from Omar Minaya. People seem want action --- and maybe more immediate relief and not over-prizing prospects. But by remaining deliberate in the face of the current crisis, he's working against the interests of his own job security and in favor of the longer-term interests of the club. Which doesn't make me a big fan of the guy. But anybody who doesn't like a GM should probably want him to be conservative. I respect your opinion but being conservative now borders on being ineffectual. The horse is out of the barn for this year. I would be sorely dissapointed to see the current GM and Manager back in 2008 Is Omar working in the interests of the long term at the expense of himself..Could be.. time will tell...Personally, I believe he is inept, ya know what I mean?

="Edgy DC":di0p49it]Sullivan's a big league vet, so he's doing better than that. He signed a $600,000 contract --- more than Pagan.[/quote:di0p49it] A Pagan should earn less Nymr83 Jul 23 2009 05:19 AM What do you have against Pagan? I think he's done a credible job as a backup outfielder when available. Edgy DC Jul 23 2009 05:50 AM I htink he's just playing off the name. Vic Sage Jul 23 2009 09:55 AM i represent the Pagan Anti-Defamation League (the PADL), and we demand a retraction of that bigoted statement. In America, a pagan is entitled to earn as much as any religious ballplayer. TheOldMole Jul 23 2009 10:01 AM I like the mask. Edgy DC Jul 23 2009 10:33 AM And for $85 it would have been yours.