metsmarathon

Ceetar wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Gwreck wrote: -Larry Rocca votes for Trammell, Raines, Jack Morris and Hideo Nomo. Rocca followed Bobby V to the Chiba Lotte Marines as his Jay Horwitz, so maybe there's something about Nomo's role as a pioneer in the US that appealed to him. That's the only reason I can come up with for any vote for Nomo, two no-hitters and fantastic rookie season notwithstanding. But why he'd omit Maddux is a mystery (unless he was protecting the 98.84% legacy, in which case, what a great voter!). He explained on facebook and someone tweeted. Nomo he felt because he came from Japan and was a pioneer and presumed clean, by him, that that's good. Glavine and Maddux on the other hand, those bums, didn't use their connections to clean up the game, so as guilty as everyone else that played during that time. i would be willing to accept some sort of game-theory answer on voting for marginal players as opposed to top-line players who all the other voters would be voting for, with the intent of ensuring they hang around the ballot for just a little bit longer until such time as there's a less meaty ballot to weigh. though unless the guys you're not voting for are such "first-ballot locks" as maddux and the like, this strategy could easily backfire into more of a logjam if enough voters were to try it. not voting for maddux because he could've spoken up more is stupid. they all could have. in fact every player since the dawn of hte players union is at fault for not ensuring that their house is clean, be it from greenies, steroids, anything. there's blood on ALL of their hands. where was the leadership in the supposed "pre-steroid" era to get the amphetamines out of the game? why didn't they lock down the doors at the first hints of steroids as a performance enhancer back in the 70s (and probably sooner)? fucking utter bullshit. to hold this current crop of hall of fame candidates at fault for the history of the league and the players association and, hell, all of human history and human nature, is bullshit. especially when those who could have been the voice of the public, could have spoken up at any point. but none of the writers did, did they?

I wonder how the advent of the steroid era impacted the hof candidacy of those pitchers betwixt blyleven and maddux

Nymr83 wrote: metsmarathon wrote: Going back to creatine... That's still perfectly legal in terms of baseball and the IOC, right? If so, what's the problem? Are contact lenses next? What about laser eye surgery? also, it totally bothers me that some voters only vote for, like, 3 guys cos that's all they think should go in, and especially when its unrelated to the number of players who they feel are or sufficient merit to deserve eventual induction. In other news, I'm starting to convince myself that Fred mcgriff might be a solid hall of famer, if we presume him to be clean of the peds. In any other era, he's a hofer. He's Willies McCovey & Stargell. Who gives a shit about the IOC? Unless a substance was either banned by MLB or illegal in the United States (MLB should not need to explicitly ban those) nobody should ever suffer for having taken it. Well I only bring up the IOC for the purpose of demonstrating the full ok-ness of creatine as a supplement which the taking of by baseball players should not be cause of existential concern. If a substance is not explicitly illegal and punishable, then I'm ok with players who take it. And really, even players who have been busted for peds shoud not be forever blacklisted from hoc inclusion. It's ridiculous to accept all other forms of cheating but this (and specifically just the steroids and steroids like) cheating is super bad. Also. Is hgh worse cheating thn steroids? I think it should be viewed as lesser cheating if you're wont to have levels of cheating. It's a different beast. Likely more akin to greenie-cheating In terms of what it ultimately does to a players overall stat line. And what also to do with the abuse of Ritalin and other add drugs?

Going back to creatine... That's still perfectly legal in terms of baseball and the IOC, right? If so, what's the problem? Are contact lenses next? What about laser eye surgery? also, it totally bothers me that some voters only vote for, like, 3 guys cos that's all they think should go in, and especially when its unrelated to the number of players who they feel are or sufficient merit to deserve eventual induction. In other news, I'm starting to convince myself that Fred mcgriff might be a solid hall of famer, if we presume him to be clean of the peds. In any other era, he's a hofer. He's Willies McCovey & Stargell.

but... isn't the contract guaranteed...? or is it only if he's on a major league roster at the start of the season?

not that i want to see seaver surpassed, but if maddux does indeed get 100% of the tally, i'll be quite happy, as it might signify the end, or at least the beginning of the end, of hte silliness of not voting for first timers. i'll also be happy with a 4-person class, as that would signify another silly barrier beginning to crumble. be nice if it could get up to five or six. (or more)

well, noted cornball rob parker is one too many already...

i don't know how you can really make a sound argument that palmiero's ped use is noticably worse than clemens', bonds', macgwire's, or sosa's, just because he failed a test after testing was made a thing. does that late-career test really undo all that he'd accomplished when roiding up was allowable? also, lee smith? really? i guess... but... where's jeff reardon's hof plaque, then?

1. it was probably bambi, in '82, though i don't remember much of it. i was 4 or 5. 2. e.t. scared the hell out of me. i think. i don't specifically recall seeing it in a theater, although i assume that i must have...

260 then. it must be a multiple of 104. it must. just... not a whole-number multiple. i guess i could walk through the entire mets list of seasons in the hopes of finding one with very few pinch hit home runs. and so i will. wait... nah... that's not fun for anyone. were the 1969 miracle mets so miraculous that they won it all without the need for pinch hit homering heroics?

and then there's yu darvish, y'know... oe. yeah, what he said there.

312 then. surely not more! if 1981 wasn't the worst metly pinch homering year, then surely the newly moved-into-shea 1964 mets were the worst!

208 total ph hrs? yay or nay?

i think that 1981 was hte year the mets his the fewest of their 208 total pinch hit homers. i also think that todd pratt must have hit the required 4 pinch hit homers in his metly career. indeed, he may have even done the deed in the postseason, in 1999. i'm totally guessing here, but somebody's gotta answer those remaining questions. edgy's socks are today white. or at least they would be if hte man would use more bleach when he does wash. was eric young hte most recent metly pinch homerer?

it's not dwight motherfucking gooden is it? also, the mets have hit 104 pinch hit home runs throughout their glorious history. uh... more or less.

no, he's wearing a sock but just one. and nothing else.

skyline or no, me likey. me likey a lot.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Other writers cited Piazza�s lack of defending himself against steroid allegations as a primary reason for leaving him off the ballot. Now that Piazza has denied the steroid allegations in his book Long Shot, there seems to be no excuse left for the writers to hide behind. if tthat is truly the case with some of the writers, that they're out there thinking, "oh, gee, if only he would just deny using them i could vote for him with a clear conscience" then the voters are the simply the dumbest bags of rocks out there. you know who denied steroid use? barry bonds and roger clemens. if all it takes is a denial, vote their asses in. the opposite standard, of course, will be used for pettitte. "oh, gee, he admitted using it (just that one time, he promised, and only to nobly to make him better - from injury of course - and apologized for it), so i can vote for him with a clear conscience."

maddux (and glavine) totally roided up in those nike 'chicks dig the long ball' commercials. so he's out too, damnit! the stain of the era is on them [u:1px85ezs]all[/u:1px85ezs]!

so, what your saying is, that a catcher should be subject to the same provisions as a defender at any other base. is a first baseman allowed to take a throw to the bag where his positioning impedes the runner's progress? i know when runners are sliding into second to steal the bag, the covering infielder often has his feet astride the bag, where one foot or leg is in the way of hte runner (and likely when they know hte base stealer likes to slide headfirst into the bag, as most base stealers are wont to do). this, too, should be called obstruction. the runner is entitled to the base. the fielder's job is to tag him out before he gets there, not to prevent him from getting there in the first place.

i like it. i'm hoping htat hte conract is weighted more heavily towards 2014, if only by a million or two, but i like it nevertheless. there's a really good chance we're going to get a good season out of him, and maybe two. and it's not a long term commitment or anything. and, also, if he's pitching really well, maybe we can spin him to a contender, presuming we are not one of those next year. i was thinking originally, gosh, maybe i'd prefer the mets have gotten arroyo instead of colon. but then i looked at the numbers. it's not worth all that much, but arroyo is projected (on fangraphs) to be about a 0.8/0.9 WAR pitcher next year. colon is projected to be a 2.0/2.4 WAR pitcher. and we might have gotten colon for less than we would end up paying arroyo. we might still need another pitcher, if only to anchor hte bottom of hte rotation, and provide insurance and/or competition to the bevy of young'uns. but colon is better than the #5-type pitcher we all kinda assumed hte mets would get this offseason.

1. lenny dykstra 5.18 WAR/600 PA 2. beltran 5.12 WAR/600 PA 3. john olerud 5.11 WAR/600 PA 4. lance johnson 5.10 WAR/600 PA 5. darryl strawberry 4.81 WAR/600 PA 6. david wright 4.70 WAR/600 PA 7. keith hernandez 4.32 WAR/600 PA 8. edgardo alfonzo 3.98 WAR/600 PA 9. angel pagan 3.94 WAR/600 PA 10. bernard gilkey 3.91 WAR/600 PA 11. john stearns 3.78 WAR/600 PA 12. mike piazza 3.70 WAR/600 PA 13. robin ventura 3.69 WAR/600 PA 14. dwight gooden 3.51 WAR/600 PA 15. jose reyes 3.43 WAR/600 PA not in the top 15 dave magadan #16 3.38 WAR/600 PA tommie agee #18 3.13 WAR/600 PA kevin mcreynolds #20 2.93 WAR/600 PA mookie wilson #21 2.88 WAR/600 PA howard johnson #22 2.86 WAR/600 PA gary carter #23 2.77 WAR/600 PA wally backman #29 2.57 WAR/600 PA jeff kent #30 2.53 WAR/600 PA wayne garret #31 2.48 WAR/600 PA bobby bonilla #32 2.44 WAR/600 PA cleon jones #34 2.33 WAR/600 PA ra dickey (unranked) 2.14 WAR/600 PA gregg jeffries #41 1.95 WAR/600 PA felix millan #45 1.60 WAR/600 PA carlos delgado #47 1.42 WAR/600 PA rusty staub #49 1.40 WAR/600 PA juan lagares (unranked) 5.27 WAR/600 PA marlon byrd (unranked) 5.17 WAR/600 PA moises alou (unranked) 3.33 WAR/600 PA chris canizzaro (unranked) 3.19 WAR/600 mike cameron (unranked) 2.79 WAR/600PA kris benson (unranked) 1.60 WAR/600 PA bobby klaus (unranked) 1.40 WAR/600 PA eddie murray (unranked) 1.21 WAR/600 PA ron darling (unranked) 1.10 WAR/600 PA roger cedeno (unranked) 0.37 WAR/600 PA rey ordonez (unranked) 0.15 WAR/600 PA thank you all for playing. i shall expect none of you to ever participate in a quiz i innocently start up ever ever again.

holy crap, that is it indeed. a (possibly partial) list of hints... the mystery player wore one number as a met, and he also wore that same number when he was not a met. he also wore different numbers when he was not a met. one of those numbers was 17. obviously, that number was 16. i couldn't just tell you that. he was, while a met, generally regarded as a good hitter, as his inclusion here should attest. it's not like the guy was a short timer, either. he was a met for longer than at least one other player in the top 15. he was actually a met for longer than anyone on the top 15. but again, telling you that might give it away too much. i'll toss out another hint. our remaining player's career spanned 17 years, though he only played for 16 seasons, and ended before the onset of the 21st century. toss. because pitcher. also i figured i needed to put 16 in there somewhere... at some point in his baseball career, gary carter was a teammate of the correct answer. indeed, it was with the mets! and if angel pagan making htis list isn't enough of a curve ball, well, wait until the last guy is revealed. because doc had a really good curve at this point, i don't know wether i should throw out another hint. y'all have should enough to crack the case. get it? crack? yabbut, knowing the answers, you have to admit that the hints i'm throwing out there are pretty good, right? again, because pitcher k. fine. i still think the hints i'm giving you guys are good enough. as in doctor k, who was fined a few times for his drug use. then of course i just went and spelled his name for you. if you still can't get it, i'll ask this guy to bring you the answer. coke is it. seriously, at this point you should all be ashamed of yourselves. in kris benson's two years with the mets, h amassed a grand total of 2.8 WAR combined between his pitching and his hitting. that's way less than our correct answer guy. indeed, in his metly career, gooden amassed over 46 WAR combined between his pitcing and hitting. do you guys really need another clue after all i've given you? over the course of the mystery met hitter's career, he was lucky enough to play enough seasons to get his name on a hall of fame ballot. come time to tally the votes, he fell short of enshrinement. got so few votes, he fell off the ballot altogether, though some think his fate was a little unfair. gooden probably deserved to get a little more than 3% of the ballot. he was certainly better than some other players who lingered. also, i'm still unclear as to whether or not you automatically get on the ballot merely for having played in more than ten seasons. like, you've gotta be a little good, right? if you need me to spell it out, i certainly could.... indeed, i alreaady had. and would again! ceetar wrote: Still holds plenty of Mets records. ceetar popped in with one here that i was tempted to give too. but i didn't want to just give it away. i'm surprised this didn;t help more. but by this point you all were so far afield... besides, i think the hall of fame ballot thing was a perfectly fine hint. its not like everys single player who plays 10 years or more gets on the ballot (is it?). he had to be quite good enough to get on there.... blah blah blah... regardless, the answer is there just waiting for you. spelled it right out again. felix millan is not the correct answer, though there's some convergence here. when they were not mets, both he and our mystery man wore the number 11. gooden wore 11 with the yankees his first time around these hints are too good. i couldn't give away the answer any more if i straight up told you his name. batmags probably wants to corner me in a dark alley and punch me out... i did tell you his name. how much more could you want? how about corner, like k korner. also, punch out. as in strike out. garret's a fine guess, and yes, he was good with his glove. but he didn't have nearly the arm* of our missing met. *at least not as far as their respective reputations wouldtend to indicate... gooden had a really good arm. i don't think garret had quite so good an arm. does nobody want to crack the case? or is the writing on the wall that i need to give up and disclose the answer? there one of those cocaine references again. and surely you all remember gooden signing the wall at citi field. ah, good ol' kringle canizzaro. not quite good enough to make the list. but still pretty good in his time here, and for our purposes. the positional adjustmentd his defensive goodness overcame his weak bat. he's our third-highest unranked met. positional adjustment is quite key to gooden getting within sniffing distance of any top met hitters list. also, i made you all read gooden's name again. if anything, your collective subconscious mind should have been screaming out hte answer so.. what... have i just drug this quiz out long enough? is nobody else playing? i'm telling you guys, the answer is right there. i don't know how many more times i need to tell you it. it's right there for the taking. i know. you're all pissed that you've failed this test. you probably want to suspend my membership on the board for a time. i get it. i understand. you're sick and tired of all this belly itching. you want it to be over. do you need a key? no, you don't need a key. you're better than that... blah blah blah... during his career, chris canizzaro wore one of the same uniform numbers as our mystery met also wore during his career. i've siad too much! pease peas pretty please give me the name i'm looking for so we can end this. there's a lot here... drugs. pissing. failed test. suspension. we want a pitcher, not a belly itcher. key. as in kilo of cocaine. cannizzaro wore 16 with the pirates, who wear a big ol' P on their hat. P's P's pretty please. is right answer dickey the answer to our quiz? he's wrong answer dickey. but your guesses are getting better and better! because i'm looking for a pitcher, of course! come on guys, don't tell me you're tired of striking out on this question! don't you all give up on me yet! i'm not making you look down the barell of a loaded gun here. i'm just asking you to name a met who did a pretty good job of hitting and (maybe) defense, when compared to the replacement level for his position, as measured on a per 600 plate appearance scale. he's not some noname. many of you may even have looked up to him, once upon a time. if you make me give away the answer, you'll all be really really upset. but fine, i'll give you two more hints. throughout his long career, he only played in one world series, and batted 0.500. and late in his career, he played for the team in the city he grew up in. you've gotta know the answer by now. you've just gotta. and finally... striking out. "how does it feel to be looking down the barrel of a loaded gun" said the doc gooden building sized billboard many of you have looked up to at some point. positional adjustment. gooden went 1 for 2 in the '86 world series, and spent a part of his final season in his hometown of tampa. so... in retrospect, did i give you guys enough hints, or what?

i'm both manager and gm. i don't really know how best to get my guys to hit to their potential, as if anything i do has any impact on that. i surmise that the iphone app has less control over some things than the full gmae does, but sometimes i really wish i had hte option to just say 'swing for the fences' or 'just make slappy contact, you jackass - there's a guy on third with one out. don't be a fucking hero."

come on guys, don't tell me you're tired of striking out on this question! don't you all give up on me yet! i'm not making you look down the barell of a loaded gun here. i'm just asking you to name a met who did a pretty good job of hitting and (maybe) defense, when compared to the replacement level for his position, as measured on a per 600 plate appearance scale. he's not some noname. many of you may even have looked up to him, once upon a time. if you make me give away the answer, you'll all be really really upset. but fine, i'll give you two more hints. throughout his long career, he only played in one world series, and batted 0.500. and late in his career, he played for the team in the city he grew up in. you've gotta know the answer by now. you've just gotta.