Frayed Knot

Well Alou's option is with the club so unless Omar & co. decide to cut him loose Moises doesn't have the option of going anywhere unless it's into retirement. So if he plays he'll play here and at an already agreed upon dollar figure.

]To have lumped him in with Rollins or Holliday or Fielder for 2007 as most valuable was laughable when it was going on and it is sad today I don't agree. I think he was, and still is, a legit choice, just one that's going to fall a bit short due to various factors; among them his team not winning (blah, blah), his lack of any one great stat, the tendancy of writers to rely on "signature moments" such as Rollins on Sunday for their votes, etc. But he had a better OBA than all and a better BA than all but Holliday, terrific 'across-the-board' stats, a great September (better than Rollins) even if his team didn't, all in a tougher hitters' park to contend with than the rest. Plus it's not like Holliday & Fielder are winning gold gloves at corner positions either.

Not without his say so I don't believe. His deal was essentially $10.5 for one year (7.5 now + 3 later) or $16.5 over two (plus various escalators based on IPs in '07) - his choice. The buyout simply exists to bring up the '07 salary if he goes and there's no 2nd year to spread it out over. His last two deals here (after the initial one) have had a kind of gentlemen's agreement feel to them, that if he and the Wilpons agree to still want each other then the numbers are already set. But if he's intent on coming back I don't know that they can legally stop him.

I predict: Rollins, Fielder, Holiday, Wright

Hitting the main players: C: Both Castro & LoDuca are FAs 1B: Delgado signed at major money for 2008 only, NO no-trade status 2B: Castillo, Valentin, Easley & Marlon are all FAs. Gotay is under team control OF: Alou = team option; Green = Team Option already declined Reyes, Wright & Beltran are, of course, signed long term. Beltran has no-trade Pitchers: - Glavine = Player option - Martinez & Wagner signed, both have no trades - Maine, Oliver, Pelfrey, Humber, Heilman, Smith, Sanchez, Feliciano all under team control. Heilman & Oliver arbitration eligible, probably Feliciano & Sanchez as well. - Mota & Schoeneweis signed

Nice comparision -- but the biggest "stat" on that whole line is the one marked 'AGE'. ARod had ~200 ABs in the majors before he turned 20 and nearly half of that sample by the time he was the same age as Wright at his call-up. And it's those early years - the same ones Wright was spending in A-ball - that are dragging down the overall averages.

Johnny Dickshot wrote: ... Winner gets an 8 oz can of Miller Lite from my fridge Does 2nd place get two? Reyes - Y Castillo - N Beltran - Y Wright - Y Alou - Y Delgado - Y Green - N LoDuca - N Milledge - Y Chavez - Y C. Gomez - N Easley - N Anderson - Y Gotay - Y Valentin - N A. Hernandez - N B. Johnson - Y Newhan - N Castro - Y Alomar Jr. - N DiFelice - N P. Martinez - Y Glavine - N O. Hernandez - Y Maine - Y O. Perez - Y Wagner - Y Feliciano - Y Heilman - N J. Smith - Y Mota - Y Sosa - Y Schoeneweis - Y Sele - N Pelfrey - Y Humber - N Collazo - N Muniz - Y Bostick - (who?) -Y Vargas - Y D. Sanchez - Y Randolph - Y Peterson - Y H. Johnson - Y Henderson - N (not as a full time coach) Manuel - N Alomar Sr. - Y Conti - Y Minaya - Y

Farmer Ted wrote: Which hurts more, this or Kenny Rogers walking in the winning run? This one and it's not even close. Mets fans obsess too much on the Rogers walk as if that game & series were somehow in hand until that point. Rogers not only isn't the biggest pitching culprit from that day he's not even in the top 3. The fact that it was a walk that allowed the run is what seems to rile most fans but once the bases were loaded - via a cheap 2B, SacB & 2 IWs - there was little chance of getting out of there alive and it still only keeps the game going if we do. Then, even if we pull that one out, we STILL would have had to win game 7 on the road. This division was in the hands of the supposedly most talented and (at that point) reasonably healthy team needing to play only mediocre ball for 2-1/2 weeks ... and they performed a total team collapse.

]you haven't been to other forums tonight evidentally And, increasingly, there are reasons for that.

Not to go defending Glavine who clearly wasn't sharp today (or last time) but if just one of those soft singles went AT some infielder instead of between them there could have been an easy GiDP and who knows what happens after that. Maybe he would have sucked in inning 2 instead ... or maybe he wouldn't have. And again not to equate the two, but Saturday after Maine puts on the second runner of the game he gets a Strike-out/throw-out. Suppose that had been a BB+SB instead and it's 1st & 2nd 1 out??? Aw fuck it, we could drive ourselves nuts with that kind of stuff.

="Kid Carsey"]Well, like I said, see ya'll after rehab. My cab is here. I was staying at the Westin I was playing to a draw When in walked Charlton Heston With the Tablets of the Law He said, 'It's still the Greatest Story' I said, 'Man, I'd like to stay But I'm bound for glory I'm on my way My ride's here -- W. Zevon/P. Muldoon

Beltran - 1.0 Castillo - 0.5 Mota - 1.0 Heilman - 0.5 OHernandez - 0.5 Sosa - 1.0

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I don't blame Willie either ... it's not about blame it's about going forward. If he's still in the dugout next spring the stink of this season will be all over him. The players need someone who'll bring a new attitude, who can prevent this thing from carrying over. I don't think Willie can do that. And that's why I want him to go. It's about 2008, not about 2007. My only problem with that line of reasoning IMO is that you're doing it to send a message to the players who under-achieved and/or had bad attitudes but the message it sends is that someone else will take the fall for them. And on a more general level, it creates an aura of a front office that (once again) doesn't know what it wants: Howe was their guy ... but was dumped less than half way through the 4-year deal. Then the big change was made by "Mr. Full Autonomy" to Willie, and after a year of solid progress, followed by one of almost total success, followed by one that was good most of the way through ... only to be blown up over a few weeks of failure and less than a year after an extension. Yeah, saving face is, by itself, a lousy reason for staying the course, but in their position I'd want something a little more concrete than just; 'we need a change so we're not reminded of the collapse'. Maybe there is something more behind the scenes (Tony Bernazard apparently thinks so) but otherwise it seems more like change for change sake. Not that I'm particularly attached to Willie, I just prefer not to make rash decisions on what seems like a short-term problem. Ah, maybe we just need to put a little more space behind this season.

I always follow post-season baseball even if I don't have any particular rooting interest (except anti-NYY). The absence of the blue and orange means it's no longer a 'must watch every pitch' deal, but I'll check in as often as practical. Mostly I just hope for good, exciting games and maybe develop a rooting interest in one team or another along the way. None spring to mind immediately aside from Cleveland - and as often as not I'll root for whoever is losing the series just so it'll get extended.

How did the 2007 Red Sox do? You're going through your usual tactic, SJR, of deciding on a conclusion first then cherry-picking only that evidence which supports the pre-determined answer and ignoring or discounting anything that doesn't. Again, if you want to discuss a topic you've got the entire board and 5 months to make your case. But at least be prepared to bring something to the table aside from some knee-jerk reaction with little forethought and questionable evidence.

So in other words, it matters ... except when it doesn't.

If you want to trade Reyes go start a trade Reyes thread, tell us what you'd do, and we can hash it over for the next 5 months.

Moyer gets pulled and Manual goes to Tom Gordon even though it's only the 6th trying to hold the line.

Now there's a slogan for you; 'Visit the Carne Pool Forum, it beats mowing the lawn'

The annoying thing about this game so far is that a small change in about 3 or 4 ABs and this score could just about be reversed. But, y'know ... it isn't.

"Wouldn't the loser of the hypothetical Mets-Phils playoff be the one that has to play San Diego and Colorado for the Wild Card spot?" Yeah, that's what I meant. I'll fix.

btw, in those final scenarios described above: 1) Mets Win, Phils Win, Padres Lose, Rockies Lose: If the Mets [u:08675a3d2a]lose[/u:08675a3d2a] the NL East showdown they would [u:08675a3d2a]Host[/u:08675a3d2a] the Padres for the WC play-in game on Tuesday as determined by a coin flip 2) Mets Win, Phils, Win, Padres Lose, Rockies Win: Mets would again host SD if not East champs - and then the winner of that would host the Rockies to determine the WC winner. The Rox get that one-game "bye" by virtue of having the best head-to-head record among the three but have to play that single game on the road.

Maine - 5.8 Castillo - 0.8 Milledge - 1.8 Castro - 0.4 Alou - 0.4 Delgado - 0.4 Wright - 0.4

So Saturday was the exact opposite of Friday as the three outcomes that went against us Friday went our way our way on Saturday with only the Rox/DBacks game being the exception both times. So after 161 games it comes down to this: * SD is assured of at least a play-in game on Monday and will clinch WC with a win on Sunday, or with Met AND Rockie losses * Mets win Sunday and they live at least another day regardless of what happens elsewhere * Mets win & Phils lose = NL East Champs * Mets can survive until a Monday play-in with a Sunday loss if Phils also lose. West games irrelevent in that case. * If Mets & Phils both win AND: - SD wins: We play for NL East Monday but CAN NOT be the WC - SD & Rox both lose: Play for NL East on Monday and the loser plays SD for the WC - SD loses but Rox win: Play for NL East Monday and the loser of that gets thrown into a WC round-robin with SD & Colorado where the Rox would wait to meet the Padres/Mets winner

Well, we're still Brews & Snakes & (especially) Nats fans for the rest of today and Sunday. The DBacks have clinched a post-season spot ... they're just not sure which one yet. * IF WE LOSE TOMMORROW* we can STILL play at least until Monday -- BUT ONLY IF: - Phils lose today & Sunday (Tie for NL East) AND/OR - SD loses today & Sunday while Colorado loses Either Sat or Sun (3-way tie for WC) or Both Sat & Sun (2-way tie for WC) * WITH A WIN ON SUNDAY* we will live to see Monday IF: - Phils lose EITHER Saturday or Sunday AND/OR - SD loses EITHER Saturday or Sunday - Rockies can get themselves into the mix with two wins but their results can not oust us in this scenario ** WE ARE FREE AND CLEAR WITH A WIN TOMORROW IF ** - Phils lose BOTH Saturday & Sunday {NL East Champs} AND/OR - SD loses BOTH Saturday & Sunday - AND - Rockies lose EITHER Saturday or Sunday {Wild Card all by our lonesome} I think that covers all the possibilities. Still pretty dicey but it looks a helluva lot better than it did this morning.