Frayed Knot

="metsguyinmichigan":3hfg8k2g]Smart move for Alex would be to come out and say, "Yeah, I tried it back in 2003, back when a lot of guys were trying it. But that was six years ago. I'm still playing at high level, which shows that I didn't need them...." Or something along those lines.[/quote:3hfg8k2g] That would be the smart move for just about anyone who used before MLB & the union got its collective act together. Doing the whole denial thing (Palmiero), the 'I don't walk to talk about it' thing (McGwire), the non-denial denial thing (Giambi), and the 'I don't understand the question thing (Sosa) makes it so much worse than it would be otherwise. A-Rod first move here (No comment - talk to the union?!?) seems to be some combination of all of the above. Edgy DC Feb 08 2009 02:33 PM ="Frayed Knot":31umhbnc]Doing the whole denial thing (Palmiero), the 'I don't walk to talk about it' thing (McGwire), the non-denial denial thing (Giambi), and the 'I don't understand the question thing (Sosa) makes it so much worse than it would be otherwise.[/quote:31umhbnc] But Clemens played it well. Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 08:43 PM Hey, who doesn't like the 'blame your wife' strategy? One interesting aspect of all this A-Rod story coming to light on a Saturday afternoon is that I was able to quickly flick on MLBN just to see what they were doing at that point. Turns out they had interrupted regular programming to have a panel discussion of the topic. Now granted the scheduled program was nothing more than a replay of some decade-old game, but two things did occur to me: 1) at least MLBN didn't take a 'see-no-evil' approach and confirm fears about the station being a house organ by avoiding anything controversial. 2) I've seen maybe 5 minutes total of the NFL Network so I could be way off here -- but I highly doubt they've ever mentioned the word 'steroids' on that channel much less held a critical discussion of them Edgy DC Feb 08 2009 09:03 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 09 2009 05:40 AM How about Bobby Estalella being a star witness in a steroid trial. Shocking. Stunning. Heartbreaking. Nymr83 Feb 08 2009 10:33 PM ]I've seen maybe 5 minutes total of the NFL Network so I could be way off here -- but I highly doubt they've ever mentioned the word 'steroids' on that channel much less held a critical discussion of them The NFL doesn't only censor it's own network, it censors others. ESPN's fictional drama about football players "Playmakers" was allegedly cancelled because the NFL threatened them. metirish Feb 09 2009 06:30 AM Bill Madden in the Snooze today says the MFY's need to 'Cut him loose - no matter the cost" , they would be "applauded for it"....hey it's only $270 million.... John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 06:48 AM Way more hysterical than the "COWARDS IN THE NIGHT" series, and that's saying something. All this based on anonymous sources revealing what was supposed to be anonymous results. The one good article in the Snooze on the subject examines who it could have been. Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 07:21 AM ="metirish":1cn88ews]Bill Madden in the Snooze today says the MFY's need to 'Cut him loose - no matter the cost" , they would be "applauded for it"....hey it's only $270 million....[/quote:1cn88ews] That's so absurdly over the top that it's barely worth discussing. Benjamin Grimm Feb 09 2009 07:26 AM Yeah, I can't imagine the Yankees eating $270 million over nine years. Sheesh! Madden also said that none of the other 29 teams would pick Rodriguez up for the major-league minimum. Yeah, right. metirish Feb 09 2009 07:28 AM Madden seems to take personnel offense that Rodriguez would tarnish the great yankee name. Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 07:28 AM ="Nymr83":2xenghij]The NFL doesn't only censor it's own network, it censors others. ESPN's fictional drama about football players "Playmakers" was allegedly cancelled because the NFL threatened them.[/quote:2xenghij] They just didn't want the public to think that the NFL has any drug-taking, gun-carrying, groupie-groping, wife-swapping miscreants in its midst. I mean, nobody would ever watch the sport if info like that were to get out. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 07:33 AM ="metirish":1bbhz6qs]Madden seems to take personnel offense that Rodriguez would tarnish the great yankee name.[/quote:1bbhz6qs] I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed. metirish Feb 09 2009 07:38 AM It's been a bad few weeks for the Yankee Brand . metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 07:44 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3buhpzhc]Yeah, I can't imagine the Yankees eating $270 million over nine years. Sheesh! Madden also said that none of the other 29 teams would pick Rodriguez up for the major-league minimum. Yeah, right.[/quote:3buhpzhc] Hell, EVERY other team would pick him up. Any why cut Arod when they didn't cut Giambi or Pettitte? Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 07:46 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]="metirish"]Madden seems to take personnel offense that Rodriguez would tarnish the great yankee name. I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed. Sure, except that the success of the 'brand' depends on large part on them continuing to win and it's amazing how many MFY fans or apologists have convinced themselves that they'd win more if only they could replace this horrible Rodriguez guy with someone really good like the reincarnation of Scott Brosius or something. metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 07:57 AM Can you imagine how different that column would be had it been Jeter who was caught? "Jeter test proves 'roids should be legalized, Cap'n put personal health at risk to help Bombers and fans." MFS62 Feb 09 2009 08:12 AM A few minutes ago, Craig Carten on WFAN said that "30% of the year 2000 Champion Yankees were taking steroids". He didn't say where he got that number. Have any of you see that written somewhere? Even if close to true, I wonder if Madden would ask the members of that team to give back their rings? Of course not! Later metirish Feb 09 2009 08:16 AM Looking at the roster it would not surprise me, not that it means a whole lot now anyway. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2000.shtml John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 08:22 AM The following guys have been implicated from 2K MFY postseason roster: Clemens Pettitte Knoblauch Justice Canseco Hill Neagle Stanton That's 8/25 -- 32% edit -- I should add this is a silly exercise, the number I am certain would similar for all teams of the era -- whether or not the guys got caught, this is how the game was played at this time. It also doesn't show these dickheads were roided up at the time they played, or even that what they took helped in any appreciable way. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 08:28 AM I should also add the interesting part of it is to see the MFYs with so many users illustrates that steroid taking was in part good for their careers, since they got the big $$ there (Clemens, Brown, Arod, Giambi, etc etc) Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 08:29 AM btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:1zonj7fk]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:1zonj7fk] Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 08:36 AM Well, these guys are those that appeared in that series. The ones on record as having a PED indiscretion hanging over them (not all of them of them with the same degree of credibility) we can bold. Clay Bellinger Scott Brosius Jose Canseco Roger Clemens David Cone Orlando Hernandez Glenallen Hill Derek Jeter David Justice Chuck Knoblauch Tino Martinez Denny Neagle Jeff Nelson Paul O'Neill Andy Pettitte Luis Polonia Jorge Posada Mariano Rivera Luis Sojo Mike Stanton Jose Vizcaino Bernie Williams That's 8/22 or 36.4%. If I had to guess, I'd suspect that the number was higher (and not much better perhaps for the Mets of that era). That seems not only closer to the high water mark, but also closer to the era in which Senator Mitchell's witnesses were most qualified to speak to. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 08:41 AM Funny that O'Neill's name isn't bolded. Looking back on all those destroyed water coolers and flung bats, I think "'roid rage". Later Benjamin Grimm Feb 09 2009 08:49 AM Or maybe he was just a jerk. SteveJRogers Feb 09 2009 09:19 AM ="Frayed Knot":2q83r4pt]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:2q83r4pt]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:2q83r4pt][/quote:2q83r4pt] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud. metirish Feb 09 2009 09:21 AM How are you holding up Steve? Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 09:27 AM That this is to sell a smelly book is just rotten. It seems to me the union spokespersons should have spent the last two days burning up the airwaves with invective over this. metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 09:31 AM ="SteveJRogers":1qvyocmb]="Frayed Knot":1qvyocmb]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:1qvyocmb]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:1qvyocmb][/quote:1qvyocmb] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:1qvyocmb] Steve, if this was a fraud, I think ARod's response would have been stronger than "Talk to the union." Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:31 AM ="SteveJRogers":3m388vh4]="Frayed Knot":3m388vh4]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:3m388vh4]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:3m388vh4][/quote:3m388vh4] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:3m388vh4] Depends on what she wrote about that case and when. Also, there's a big difference between being an opinion-writing, deadline-oriented newspaper columnist (which she was at the time of the Duke case) and a book-writing journalist chronicling someone's life story (or part of it) as she is on the ARod trail. The standards and practices are very different between the two job descriptions. SteveJRogers Feb 09 2009 09:43 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":1yl23d5c]="SteveJRogers":1yl23d5c]="Frayed Knot":1yl23d5c]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:1yl23d5c]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:1yl23d5c][/quote:1yl23d5c] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:1yl23d5c] Steve, if this was a fraud, I think ARod's response would have been stronger than "Talk to the union."[/quote:1yl23d5c] I didn't say this was a fraud, I'm giving the whole story on the story breaker. Rockin' Doc Feb 09 2009 11:06 AM It's seems apparent to me that the Yankees organiztion should be contracted and banished from MLB for the good of the game. Beside, they employed a bunch of 'roid users. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 12:08 PM (Channeling The Scooter) Holy cow! This is the most shocking revellation so far. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/02/09/2009-02-09_yankees_captain_derek_jeter_says_arod_de.html El Capitan comes out with something that can be taken as a support of A-Rod? And I thought he was the guy who might have ratted him out. Will wonders never cease? Later metirish Feb 09 2009 12:13 PM I'm certain one of our members commented along these lines when this came out. From Ian O'Connor's article today. ] The first sign of serious trouble came last February, when Rodriguez volunteered he�d been drug-tested nine or ten times during his monster 2007 season. Players are supposed to be tested twice during a season, three times if selected for one of 600 additional random tests. A-Rod�s odds of being tested as much as he claimed were a gazillion to one, unless, of course, he�d turned up positive for amphetamines and earned an extra half-dozen mandatory trips to the urinal. O'Connor lays this mess on Hank. Hank MFS62 Feb 09 2009 12:19 PM There was a list in today's early edition of the Daily News that named some players who have been associated with taking drugs and steroids in various investigations. I couldn't find the link just now - it may have been replaced by the news that A-Rod may address the press later today. Anyhow, one of the names on the list was Rico Brogna. Had anyone seen his name mentioned about drugs before? Later Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 12:31 PM ARod is in the process of fessing up to Gammons (and ESPN is going to milk this access for all it's worth): - now admits he roided from 2001 to 2003 but not since metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 12:32 PM AP sez ARod confessing to using PEDs between 2001 and 2003. Probably a good move to get it out there. Even better if he says "Derek gave them to me!" metsmarathon Feb 09 2009 12:38 PM wow! good for him! that, btw, is exactly what i would've thought he should say. own up to using for more than you were caught for, and it makes the confession more believable. should be an interesting story to read more on later when i actually have time. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 01:07 PM The Andy Pettitte defense. I didn;t. Oh, you got me? OK I did metirish Feb 09 2009 01:08 PM Alex didn't know what he was taking either...of course you didn't..... metirish Feb 09 2009 02:27 PM I've been thinking about this and I don't dislike Rodriguez anymore after this debacle , I have never cared for him but this doesn't make me care even less for him. I have been following baseball since the mid nineties so in reality looking back I have been a fan in the steroid era. Centerfield Feb 09 2009 03:52 PM ="Frayed Knot":1w77txb8]="metirish":1w77txb8]Bill Madden in the Snooze today says the MFY's need to 'Cut him loose - no matter the cost" , they would be "applauded for it"....hey it's only $270 million....[/quote:1w77txb8] That's so absurdly over the top that it's barely worth discussing.[/quote:1w77txb8] It's like Klapisch and Madden are trying to have a dumb-off. Someone might want to point out to Madden that the "Yankee Brand" not only doesn't cut steroid users, they re-sign them (Pettite). MFS62 Feb 09 2009 04:02 PM Or forgive them (Giambi) Later bmfc1 Feb 09 2009 04:18 PM Real classy Alex: he accuses Selena Roberts of breaking into his house, scaring his kids, and only doing this because she has a book deal. bmfc1 Feb 09 2009 04:21 PM Alex: "God is doing this for a reason." Yeah, to expose you as a fraud, you self-righteous jackass. Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 05:13 PM ="bmfc1":2fg4x9go]Real classy Alex: he accuses Selena Roberts of breaking into his house, scaring his kids, and only doing this because she has a book deal.[/quote:2fg4x9go] That was the most interesting thing I took out of his chat w/Gammons (didn't hear/see all of it). And that's not going to gain him any brownie points with the scribes. Not a whole lot gets the collective media more in line as when one of their own is attacked for his/her motives. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 05:21 PM Motives? If this (the break in) is true, what about methods? Later MFS62 Feb 09 2009 06:35 PM Did he or didn't he is just copious quantities of ca ca. This is the real issue: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne...o&type=lgns Whoever leaked the list could look at doing some real hard time. Later Rockin' Doc Feb 09 2009 07:45 PM Lunchbucket - "I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed." They could just have Rivera invite A-Rod to a pool party. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 07:48 PM That's cold. Funny. But cold. Literally LOL! Later metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 08:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2q348b13]Lunchbucket - "I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed." They could just have Rivera invite A-Rod to a pool party.[/quote:2q348b13] Badass bullet of cool! metirish Feb 10 2009 06:35 AM I watched the interview last night , thought Gammons was disgraceful , not surprised by that though. Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 07:00 AM ="MFS62":2tuoh1qv]Motives? If this (the break in) is true, what about methods?[/quote:2tuoh1qv] I'm operating under the assumption that the stories* of Roberts breaking into his house and "stalking" him are, at best, over-the-top exaggerations and that what Alex considers to be criminal harassment will be seen by other reporters as 'doing her job'. So, yeah, I expect the media as a whole to close ranks around her rather than him. * Apparently there was "an incident" with reporter Roberts and a guard at the gate outside of Rodriguez's community. Not sure if that's what he's blown up into 'trying to break in' or if he's talking about something else. Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 10 2009 07:52 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]The Andy Pettitte defense. I didn;t. Oh, you got me? OK I did Actually, the Pettitte defense is more like: I didn't. Oh, you got me? Well, I only did it that time. Ok, I did it a little more than you caught me for, but never again or before. This defense allows you to seem like you're telling the truth, since you admit to just a smidge more than you got busted for, while at the same time limiting damage to your reputation, since there was only a small time span (always significantly in the past) in which you were cheating. This defense works well because people want to give these athletes the benefit of the doubt. I assume that these tests only snag the very tips of the icebergs in terms of how many are cheating and how often they are. I think A-Rod, Pettitte and countless others (including many Mets I loved and still love following) have used PEDs since high school and continue to cheat to the present day. Edgy DC Feb 10 2009 08:00 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker":3cjpun8v]This defense works well because people want to give these athletes the benefit of the doubt.[/quote:3cjpun8v] Unless, of course the athlete is A-Rod. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 10 2009 08:19 AM Not to stoke this more but Jeter fed his fanclub in the 4th estate an interesting line yesterday. Filip Bondy who may as well titled his piece in the snooze today GOD I LOVE THE TASTE OF DEREK'S BALLSACK practically apologizes for even asking whether Jeter did it and finds the answer: "Why would my name be on that list?" as an acceptable response. Note how Jeets dares his cheering section to accuse him of something, so he can act wronged from the start. metirish Feb 10 2009 09:12 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Filip Bondy who may as well titled his piece in the snooze today GOD I LOVE THE TASTE OF DEREK'S BALLSACK practically apologizes for even asking whether Jeter did it and finds the answer: "Why would my name be on that list?" as an acceptable response. . Bondy definitely finds that answer acceptable... ] That was the answer we wanted to hear. Jeter is the guy who stays out of trouble, doesn't go trawling for it. He remains single, so his romantic dalliances amuse instead of disgust us. He keeps quiet about the contract that expires in 2010, about his place in the lineup, about the pitchers and teammates and coaches who have failed him in recent seasons what would these guys do if their beloved Jeter was dirty...Snooze has 15 pages on Rodriguez. metsguyinmichigan Feb 10 2009 09:43 AM Jeter's proof is in his middling stats. If he put those numbers up in Kansas City, he'd be just another decent player. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 10 2009 09:47 AM No no no no no no. My point is if he played in this era he's a suspect whose denial is as sincere as anyone else's. Everyone is a suspect, and the papers still don't get it. And players from Termel Sledge to Manny Aybar should have proven by now that numbers have little to do with it. metirish Feb 10 2009 09:56 AM Yeah numbers mean nothing really , as we know a lot of players took them to help recover from injury or just to recover from games, unlike Rodriguez who was just young and stoopid. metsguyinmichigan Feb 10 2009 09:57 AM Letterman on ARod Top Ten Messages Left on Alex Rodriguez's Answering Machine 10 "Hey, it's Mark McGwire, want to get together this weekend and not talk about the past?" 9 "Joe Torre here, thanks for helping book sales." 8 "Could you find a steroid that keeps you from choking in the playoffs?" 7 "Are you worried this will taint all the championships you didn't win?" 6 "Hi, it's Bernie Madoff. Nice try, but I'm still the most hated man in NYC." 5 "Michael Phelps here, got any snacks?" 4 "Hi, this is Sammy Sosa, just pretend you don't speak English." 3 "Michael Phelps again, did I call you or did you call me?" 2 "Hi this is Rod Blagojevich, I'll say you're innocent if you say I am." and the Number One Message Left on Alex Rodriguez's Answering Machine: 1 "It's Madonna. You got a phone number for Jeter?" soupcan Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM Fucking funny! metirish Feb 10 2009 11:43 AM Hilarious from Letterman.... Representative Elijah Cummings apparently wants to bring Rodriguez before Congress. ] "I think we're going to have to see what Rodriguez will tell us," Cummings said in a phone interview. "He is in a confessing mode, so maybe he needs to put his apology into some meaningful action by cooperating with the committee so we can see if there are things we need to reopen to make sure baseball is doing all that it can to rid itself of this kind of practice." Edgy DC Feb 10 2009 11:47 AM Me as A-Rod: "I'll testify under oath if everybody else does. Don't have time for that? OK, then just Derek." metirish Feb 10 2009 11:48 AM Let's just play ball. MFS62 Feb 10 2009 11:51 AM Under HIPAA regulations (in force since 1996) divulging the results of a medical test without the express consent of the patient is a violation of Federal Law. The penalties are here: http://aspe.hhs.gov/admnsimp/pl104191.htm#1176 From information published about the A-Rod case, the tests were conducted by a licensed medical testing organization. To me, that makes them covered by that law. Those 2003 tests were conducted under the terms of anonymity. In that case, I can't believe any of the players testd signed a release/ waiver of those terms. Therefore, IMO anyone divulging those results has committed a crime and should be punished. Can any Medical folks here confirm my opinion? Later metirish Feb 10 2009 12:04 PM Our David has spoken ] Mets' David Wright praises A-Rod for coming clean BY DAVID LENNON | david.lennon@newsday.com 1:57 PM EST, February 10, 2009 David Wright praised Alex Rodriguez for coming clean on his PED use during Monday's interview with ESPN, but also took a hard-line against cheaters. "I hope that anybody who cheats get caught," Wright said. "Maybe its me being na�ve, but I think baseball is clean. You would have to be either very desperate or flat-out stupid to try and beat the system now." That said, Wright still believes that A-Rod is "a tremendous player" and laughed when someone asked about comparing himself to the Yankees' third baseman in the wake of these revelations. "He's better than me," a smiling Wright said Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 12:18 PM ]Under HIPAA regulations (in force since 1996) divulging the results of a medical test without the express consent of the patient is a violation of Federal Law. Fine. Now all you have to do is convince the government that they need to prosecute themselves over the fact that they're the ones who first confiscated, then leaked, the records. metirish Feb 10 2009 01:15 PM Congress thankfully win not haul Rodriguez in for a grilling. ] The statement from Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-NY) today reads: "The news that another one of baseball's premier players -- in addition to another 103 unnamed players -- used performance enhancing drugs is disturbing and sends yet another horrible message to our young people. "With unemployment in this country approaching double digits and our constituents' very livelihoods being threatened by the nation's economic woes, I intend to focus on passing President Obama's Economic Recovery legislation to get Americans back to work to fix our sinking economy. The American people need leaders who will focus on stemming job losses and getting credit to flow in the marketplace before hearing from yet another person who cheated both himself and the game of baseball. The Committee began this investigation in the face of a weak and ineffective drug testing policy that compromised the integrity of Major League Baseball. Now that baseball is implementing one of the most comprehensive drug testing policies in major league sports, I look forward to monitoring how well the policy is working to ensure the credibility of our national pastime. themetfairy Feb 10 2009 01:36 PM ="metirish"]Our David has spoken ] Mets' David Wright praises A-Rod for coming clean Wright said. "Maybe its me being na�ve, but I think baseball is clean. You would have to be either very desperate or flat-out stupid to try and beat the system now." Someone give that boy a hug. Or a puppy dog. themetfairy Feb 10 2009 01:42 PM Caple Blames Madonna For A-Rod's Steroid Use[/url:1axxb394]. G-Fafif Feb 10 2009 04:44 PM Just you wait -- some version of this[/url:1e05cmtc] will be written by at least one of the columnists cited. metirish Feb 10 2009 04:53 PM OMG , brilliant.... Edgy DC Feb 12 2009 08:13 AM Zev goes the whole nine yards, and the only moral failure he indicts the Rod for is giving up the juice and therefore ripping the Yankees off. Opinion A-Rod, get back on the 'roids You've got nothing to apologize about; drugs have been part of professional baseball for a long time. By Zev Chafets February 12, 2009 If it is true that Alex Rodriguez stopped using steroids in 2003, before he came to New York, the Yankees have been swindled. A-Rod hasn't been trying his hardest to win and help his team. In A-Rod's defense, it could be argued that there is no empirical proof that taking anabolic steroids improves baseball performance. But baseball players think they do. A-Rod himself admits he took steroids to make himself one of the greatest players of all time. Even if steroids are potentially dangerous (and despite suspicions, there is no proof that they cause permanent harm when properly administered to adult males), what of it? For many people, danger is the price of doing business. Construction workers, firefighters, cops and combat soldiers all take their lives in their hands to earn a living. According to Sports Illustrated, 104 major leaguers tested positive for steroids in 2003. That's about 10% of the players in the majors. Back in 2003, A-Rod didn't necessarily know who the other 103 users were. But he did know that they were out there someplace. They might have been pitchers he was facing, or fielders who caught up with his batted balls. He probably guessed that some of the juicers were the great hitters he was competing against for primacy and the money that goes with it. Can anybody blame A-Rod for leveling the playing field? What was he supposed to say: My rivals may be chemically enhancing their performances, but that's just a disadvantage I must live with? Baseball players have been doing drugs since Hall of Fame pitcher Pud Galvin shot up with monkey testosterone in 1889. And it's not just steroids, Since the '60s, major leaguers also have used amphetamines and downers. Players take them for professional purposes, not for fun. As every Little Leaguer has been taught, you sacrifice what you must for the good of the team. You play hurt if necessary, and you take your advantages where you find them. Gaylord Perry threw spitballs, more or less publicly, for 20 years, and he got into Cooperstown. As a player, John McGraw tripped so many base runners that baseball was forced to introduce an infield umpire -- and McGraw is in the Hall of Fame too. Even Babe Ruth was caught corking his bat. These and a hundred other incidents of sign stealing, bat tippling, ball scuffing and bat doctoring are staples of baseball lore, lovingly recounted by after-dinner speakers and broadcasters across American generations. Cheating is as much a part of Major League Baseball as alcoholism, ethnic bench jockeying and the ground-rule double. Besides, let's be honest. Americans love chemicals that provide an edge. Students use them to cram for finals. Pilots and surgeons take Provigil to keep sharp. Trial lawyers and Broadway actors pop beta blockers to ward off stage fright. Bob Dole pitched Viagra on television. I've even heard rumors about sportswriters who smoothed out their workdays with Prozac. Science marches on, no matter how much we long for the pristine days before medication. Ballplayers will always look for an edge, and chemists will always come up with one, and a way to evade testing too. "Everybody does it" is not a moral defense, but honestly, is this really a moral issue? Baseball hasn't treated it that way. Forty years after Jim Bouton revealed the widespread use of "greenies," no players have been seriously punished for using chemicals. Even now, the only real threat is getting banned from the Hall of Fame, and we'll see how long that lasts in the age of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens and A-Rod. The baseball establishment still hasn't made a real effort to stop players from using steroids, because it is believed that steroids enhance performance and help win games -- and that is what professional baseball is all about. Except, it turns out, to A-Rod. For the last four seasons, he has let his teammates and his fans down by doing less than his best. Unless, of course, he is lying about having quit in 2003, and he's been enhancing right along. Say that it's so, A-Rod. Say that it's so. Zev Chafets' book on the Baseball Hall of Fame, "Cooperstown Confidential," will be published in May. Rockin' Doc Feb 12 2009 11:09 AM My dear Mr. Chafets, You sir, are an idiot. Sincerely, --Rockin' Doc metirish Feb 12 2009 11:36 AM ] As a player, John McGraw tripped so many base runners that baseball was forced to introduce an infield umpire -- and McGraw is in the Hall of Fame too. For fucks sake man get a grip . Ashie62 Feb 12 2009 05:04 PM ="metirish":1ih6vdd4]Let's just play ball.[/quote:1ih6vdd4] Yup...This whole steroid drama is wearing thin..Since no Ballplayers are beyond question as to taking performance enhancers why don't we do this to wrap up the issue for good. 1. On opening day for all teams at their own parks have every player in uniform do 200 Military squats as punishment and penance. Fans can use the time to boo or heckle to vent, or step out to get some delicious Wise snacks. 2. Have Selig sac up and designate 1996-2003 the "live ball era" or whatever you would like to call it. 3. Current Drug Testing Policies are in place to move forward. Lastly, I'm not going to hammer Arod or any other abuser as I won't should any of our boys get outed...I can't imagine David Wright ever being involved in this mess but as I said..no one is beyond question. Now play ball!!! soupcan Feb 13 2009 11:21 AM If anyone's interested - Pete Rose is going to be on WFAN with Francesa in a couple of minutes. I'm sure he'll be talking about Alex. seawolf17 Feb 17 2009 12:05 PM This press conference is insipid. PatchyFogg Feb 17 2009 12:09 PM ="soupcan":ko45fwv9]If anyone's interested - Pete Rose is going to be on WFAN with Francesa in a couple of minutes. I'm sure he'll be talking about Alex.[/quote:ko45fwv9] And, we're having Kirk Radomski live at 9:15PM tonight on LI's 90.3FM in case anyone is in the listening area. I'll put it up at http://hosted.filefront.com/patchyfogg after the show. In the meantime (at the same website), you can check out the 2 commercial-free hour Mets Preview that we did with Adam Rubin right before he left for Port St. Lucie. Nymr83 Feb 17 2009 12:12 PM ="seawolf17":3rs9xhqj]This press conference is insipid.[/quote:3rs9xhqj] What more did you want him to say? I relize the media needs to keep beating it to death because they have columns to fill, but I've heard all I need to hear already. metirish Feb 17 2009 12:52 PM It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 17 2009 12:57 PM John Harper in the meantime is suckered into taking Texiera's word he's never used, why he's "cleaner than Derek Jeter if that's even possible" (yes, he actually wrote that today). themetfairy Feb 17 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":2kjyziqi]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:2kjyziqi] How does he feel about World Peace? holychicken Feb 17 2009 03:03 PM ="Ashie62":2gt1v9x0]2. Have Selig sac up and designate 1996-2003 the "live ball era" or whatever you would like to call it.[/quote:2gt1v9x0] The "small balls era" makes more sense. metirish Feb 17 2009 08:14 PM Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone"..... Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:20 PM Is that something he wrote or said? metirish Feb 17 2009 08:29 PM I was watching the news and he said it, not the exact quote from me but close . MFS62 Feb 17 2009 09:17 PM ="themetfairy":67aky83c]="metirish":67aky83c]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:67aky83c] How does he feel about World Peace?[/quote:67aky83c] It doesn't matter. He's not competing for Miss America. Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:57 PM ="metirish":cg5944xb]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:cg5944xb] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask? Nymr83 Feb 18 2009 02:26 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":2ac33j35]="metirish":2ac33j35]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:2ac33j35] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask?[/quote:2ac33j35] Sorry Johnny, whatever he took was probably illegal in the U.S. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:59 AM I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates. metirish Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM More from Johnny....to the print media he had this to say..... ] "It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone"It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone "We can go out there and support him," Damon added, "because we know we can't go out there and win a World Series without him." Rodriguez's amatuer hour defense defies logic , I didn't expect anything else from him but it couldn't have been more staged if he were on Broadway. Frayed Knot Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM ="Edgy DC":1kos7lsf]I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates.[/quote:1kos7lsf] That would explain all the death and destruction in the world. Re: Damon -- His name came up in a round-table type sports discussion I was listening to and the panel was deftly using euphemisms like "an uncomplicated man" when describing him in order to keep from flat-out saying that he's basically box-of-rocks stupid. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 07:19 AM Yes, Johnny, murder, manslaughter --- these things are worse than cheating at baseball. Thank you for your incisive analysis. For a counterpoint, here's Ambiorix Burgos.

The fun part here (as Joel Sherman points out)[/url:3hflo8sz] is that the Yanx "re-hired" Rodriguez (ie, agreed to his asking price) at least partly because he has a great shot at breaking the all-time HR record, wresting it away from that dirty Barry Bonds and returning it 'to its rightful place' as part of Yanqui lore. And all televised by 'YES'! Oops.

="metsmarathon":1gbuq659]can the players sue mlb for the 'anonymous' testing not being so anonymous?[/quote:1gbuq659] Problem with that is it's not clear that MLB is the one releasing the results. The feds got their hands on this stuff as part of their BALCO investigation and leaks seem to be stemming from that. And now it looks like it won't even help the gov't much seeing as how the judge in the Bonds case said the other day that she won't allow them to use the positive tests for Bonds as evidence. Kong76 Feb 07 2009 11:21 AM Wonderfully delicious development. metirish Feb 07 2009 11:24 AM A-Fraud metsguyinmichigan Feb 07 2009 12:22 PM Who were the other 103 players? You know that whole list is gonna come out in time. metsmarathon Feb 07 2009 12:30 PM ="Frayed Knot":8jz37fol]="metsmarathon":8jz37fol]can the players sue mlb for the 'anonymous' testing not being so anonymous?[/quote:8jz37fol] Problem with that is it's not clear that MLB is the one releasing the results. The feds got their hands on this stuff as part of their BALCO investigation and leaks seem to be stemming from that. And now it looks like it won't even help the gov't much seeing as how the judge in the Bonds case said the other day that she won't allow them to use the positive tests for Bonds as evidence.[/quote:8jz37fol] well, there's no reason the names should've ever been attached to the test samples, and/or there's no reason the list of positively tested players should ever have been made. if i was a steroid using player in 2003, i would expect there to be no connection between my identity and my sample, and no possible way for it ever to be linkable back to me. ... that said, i'm glad they fucked it up, and i hope all the names come out. and if i'm alex rodriguez, i'm hoping against hope that the very next names out is derek jeter. metirish Feb 07 2009 05:40 PM My wife tells me that the word in Puerto Rico is that Beltran is on that list. Kong76 Feb 07 2009 06:17 PM Wouldn't be all that hard to believe. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 07 2009 07:01 PM ="Frayed Knot":hxamjlpd] I've long operated under the theory that a significant number of players were taking during the early-'90s thru early 2000s decade and have no interest in trying to retroactively condemn those caught while holding up those not caught as clean and pure. It happened, neither MLB nor labor acted quickly enough, and it's going to be a cloud over that era and those who played in it forever. Now move on.[/quote:hxamjlpd] Yup yup and yup. Willets Point Feb 07 2009 07:07 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2s4h4r7r]="Frayed Knot":2s4h4r7r] I've long operated under the theory that a significant number of players were taking during the early-'90s thru early 2000s decade and have no interest in trying to retroactively condemn those caught while holding up those not caught as clean and pure. It happened, neither MLB nor labor acted quickly enough, and it's going to be a cloud over that era and those who played in it forever. Now move on.[/quote:2s4h4r7r] Yup yup and yup.[/quote:2s4h4r7r] And yup. Get the players who are using them now. And stop the rest before they even begin. Edgy DC Feb 07 2009 08:49 PM Well, the exceptions are Bonds and Clemens, and others who were too brash or stupid to take the fifth when they should have, and instead lied under oath, making a literal federal case of things.. metsguyinmichigan Feb 07 2009 09:00 PM Bonds, Sosa, McGwire all ballooned up. But ARod stayed pretty lean, and he has continued to mash. Have his stats changed all that much? Gwreck Feb 07 2009 09:21 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":3cw4zcdu]Bonds, Sosa, McGwire all ballooned up. But ARod stayed pretty lean, and he has continued to mash. Have his stats changed all that much?[/quote:3cw4zcdu] Not really. His peak power was when he was in Texas, hitting 156 homers over a three-year period, but he did hit 54 in 2007 with the MFYs. Willets Point Feb 07 2009 10:14 PM At least he wasn't photographed smoking a bong. Met Hunter Feb 07 2009 11:35 PM ="metirish":1cp4q12p]A-Fraud[/quote:1cp4q12p] A-hole Nymr83 Feb 08 2009 01:53 AM ="Willets Point":bu8eegj7]At least he wasn't photographed smoking a bong.[/quote:bu8eegj7] Grant Roberts!! Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 05:29 AM The fun part here (as Joel Sherman points out)[/url:3hflo8sz] is that the Yanx "re-hired" Rodriguez (ie, agreed to his asking price) at least partly because he has a great shot at breaking the all-time HR record, wresting it away from that dirty Barry Bonds and returning it 'to its rightful place' as part of Yanqui lore. And all televised by 'YES'! Oops. MFS62 Feb 08 2009 07:40 AM Primobolan I'm not sure about. But the article says Testosterone can be taken legally with a prescription. I mean, if he knew he was going to be schtupping Madonna in a few years, he had legit reason to be loading up on that stuff. Later metsguyinmichigan Feb 08 2009 07:40 AM Smart move for Alex would be to come out and say, "Yeah, I tried it back in 2003, back when a lot of guys were trying it. But that was six years ago. I'm still playing at high level, which shows that I didn't need them...." Or something along those lines. G-Fafif Feb 08 2009 08:00 AM ="metsguyinmichigan"]Smart move for Alex would be to come out and say... "I'm still playing at a high level..." So he smoked dope, too? What a bad influence on all children all MFYs are! metsmarathon Feb 08 2009 09:03 AM watch him come out with an explanation like ' i only took steroids so that i would test positive, and force the testing program we have now.' Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 09:54 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":3hfg8k2g]Smart move for Alex would be to come out and say, "Yeah, I tried it back in 2003, back when a lot of guys were trying it. But that was six years ago. I'm still playing at high level, which shows that I didn't need them...." Or something along those lines.[/quote:3hfg8k2g] That would be the smart move for just about anyone who used before MLB & the union got its collective act together. Doing the whole denial thing (Palmiero), the 'I don't walk to talk about it' thing (McGwire), the non-denial denial thing (Giambi), and the 'I don't understand the question thing (Sosa) makes it so much worse than it would be otherwise. A-Rod first move here (No comment - talk to the union?!?) seems to be some combination of all of the above. Edgy DC Feb 08 2009 02:33 PM ="Frayed Knot":31umhbnc]Doing the whole denial thing (Palmiero), the 'I don't walk to talk about it' thing (McGwire), the non-denial denial thing (Giambi), and the 'I don't understand the question thing (Sosa) makes it so much worse than it would be otherwise.[/quote:31umhbnc] But Clemens played it well. Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 08:43 PM Hey, who doesn't like the 'blame your wife' strategy? One interesting aspect of all this A-Rod story coming to light on a Saturday afternoon is that I was able to quickly flick on MLBN just to see what they were doing at that point. Turns out they had interrupted regular programming to have a panel discussion of the topic. Now granted the scheduled program was nothing more than a replay of some decade-old game, but two things did occur to me: 1) at least MLBN didn't take a 'see-no-evil' approach and confirm fears about the station being a house organ by avoiding anything controversial. 2) I've seen maybe 5 minutes total of the NFL Network so I could be way off here -- but I highly doubt they've ever mentioned the word 'steroids' on that channel much less held a critical discussion of them Edgy DC Feb 08 2009 09:03 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 09 2009 05:40 AM How about Bobby Estalella being a star witness in a steroid trial. Shocking. Stunning. Heartbreaking. Nymr83 Feb 08 2009 10:33 PM ]I've seen maybe 5 minutes total of the NFL Network so I could be way off here -- but I highly doubt they've ever mentioned the word 'steroids' on that channel much less held a critical discussion of them The NFL doesn't only censor it's own network, it censors others. ESPN's fictional drama about football players "Playmakers" was allegedly cancelled because the NFL threatened them. metirish Feb 09 2009 06:30 AM Bill Madden in the Snooze today says the MFY's need to 'Cut him loose - no matter the cost" , they would be "applauded for it"....hey it's only $270 million.... John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 06:48 AM Way more hysterical than the "COWARDS IN THE NIGHT" series, and that's saying something. All this based on anonymous sources revealing what was supposed to be anonymous results. The one good article in the Snooze on the subject examines who it could have been. Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 07:21 AM ="metirish":1cn88ews]Bill Madden in the Snooze today says the MFY's need to 'Cut him loose - no matter the cost" , they would be "applauded for it"....hey it's only $270 million....[/quote:1cn88ews] That's so absurdly over the top that it's barely worth discussing. Benjamin Grimm Feb 09 2009 07:26 AM Yeah, I can't imagine the Yankees eating $270 million over nine years. Sheesh! Madden also said that none of the other 29 teams would pick Rodriguez up for the major-league minimum. Yeah, right. metirish Feb 09 2009 07:28 AM Madden seems to take personnel offense that Rodriguez would tarnish the great yankee name. Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 07:28 AM ="Nymr83":2xenghij]The NFL doesn't only censor it's own network, it censors others. ESPN's fictional drama about football players "Playmakers" was allegedly cancelled because the NFL threatened them.[/quote:2xenghij] They just didn't want the public to think that the NFL has any drug-taking, gun-carrying, groupie-groping, wife-swapping miscreants in its midst. I mean, nobody would ever watch the sport if info like that were to get out. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 07:33 AM ="metirish":1bbhz6qs]Madden seems to take personnel offense that Rodriguez would tarnish the great yankee name.[/quote:1bbhz6qs] I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed. metirish Feb 09 2009 07:38 AM It's been a bad few weeks for the Yankee Brand . metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 07:44 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3buhpzhc]Yeah, I can't imagine the Yankees eating $270 million over nine years. Sheesh! Madden also said that none of the other 29 teams would pick Rodriguez up for the major-league minimum. Yeah, right.[/quote:3buhpzhc] Hell, EVERY other team would pick him up. Any why cut Arod when they didn't cut Giambi or Pettitte? Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 07:46 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]="metirish"]Madden seems to take personnel offense that Rodriguez would tarnish the great yankee name. I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed. Sure, except that the success of the 'brand' depends on large part on them continuing to win and it's amazing how many MFY fans or apologists have convinced themselves that they'd win more if only they could replace this horrible Rodriguez guy with someone really good like the reincarnation of Scott Brosius or something. metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 07:57 AM Can you imagine how different that column would be had it been Jeter who was caught? "Jeter test proves 'roids should be legalized, Cap'n put personal health at risk to help Bombers and fans." MFS62 Feb 09 2009 08:12 AM A few minutes ago, Craig Carten on WFAN said that "30% of the year 2000 Champion Yankees were taking steroids". He didn't say where he got that number. Have any of you see that written somewhere? Even if close to true, I wonder if Madden would ask the members of that team to give back their rings? Of course not! Later metirish Feb 09 2009 08:16 AM Looking at the roster it would not surprise me, not that it means a whole lot now anyway. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2000.shtml John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 08:22 AM The following guys have been implicated from 2K MFY postseason roster: Clemens Pettitte Knoblauch Justice Canseco Hill Neagle Stanton That's 8/25 -- 32% edit -- I should add this is a silly exercise, the number I am certain would similar for all teams of the era -- whether or not the guys got caught, this is how the game was played at this time. It also doesn't show these dickheads were roided up at the time they played, or even that what they took helped in any appreciable way. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 08:28 AM I should also add the interesting part of it is to see the MFYs with so many users illustrates that steroid taking was in part good for their careers, since they got the big $$ there (Clemens, Brown, Arod, Giambi, etc etc) Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 08:29 AM btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:1zonj7fk]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:1zonj7fk] Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 08:36 AM Well, these guys are those that appeared in that series. The ones on record as having a PED indiscretion hanging over them (not all of them of them with the same degree of credibility) we can bold. Clay Bellinger Scott Brosius Jose Canseco Roger Clemens David Cone Orlando Hernandez Glenallen Hill Derek Jeter David Justice Chuck Knoblauch Tino Martinez Denny Neagle Jeff Nelson Paul O'Neill Andy Pettitte Luis Polonia Jorge Posada Mariano Rivera Luis Sojo Mike Stanton Jose Vizcaino Bernie Williams That's 8/22 or 36.4%. If I had to guess, I'd suspect that the number was higher (and not much better perhaps for the Mets of that era). That seems not only closer to the high water mark, but also closer to the era in which Senator Mitchell's witnesses were most qualified to speak to. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 08:41 AM Funny that O'Neill's name isn't bolded. Looking back on all those destroyed water coolers and flung bats, I think "'roid rage". Later Benjamin Grimm Feb 09 2009 08:49 AM Or maybe he was just a jerk. SteveJRogers Feb 09 2009 09:19 AM ="Frayed Knot":2q83r4pt]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:2q83r4pt]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:2q83r4pt][/quote:2q83r4pt] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud. metirish Feb 09 2009 09:21 AM How are you holding up Steve? Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 09:27 AM That this is to sell a smelly book is just rotten. It seems to me the union spokespersons should have spent the last two days burning up the airwaves with invective over this. metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 09:31 AM ="SteveJRogers":1qvyocmb]="Frayed Knot":1qvyocmb]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:1qvyocmb]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:1qvyocmb][/quote:1qvyocmb] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:1qvyocmb] Steve, if this was a fraud, I think ARod's response would have been stronger than "Talk to the union." Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:31 AM ="SteveJRogers":3m388vh4]="Frayed Knot":3m388vh4]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:3m388vh4]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:3m388vh4][/quote:3m388vh4] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:3m388vh4] Depends on what she wrote about that case and when. Also, there's a big difference between being an opinion-writing, deadline-oriented newspaper columnist (which she was at the time of the Duke case) and a book-writing journalist chronicling someone's life story (or part of it) as she is on the ARod trail. The standards and practices are very different between the two job descriptions. SteveJRogers Feb 09 2009 09:43 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":1yl23d5c]="SteveJRogers":1yl23d5c]="Frayed Knot":1yl23d5c]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:1yl23d5c]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:1yl23d5c][/quote:1yl23d5c] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:1yl23d5c] Steve, if this was a fraud, I think ARod's response would have been stronger than "Talk to the union."[/quote:1yl23d5c] I didn't say this was a fraud, I'm giving the whole story on the story breaker. Rockin' Doc Feb 09 2009 11:06 AM It's seems apparent to me that the Yankees organiztion should be contracted and banished from MLB for the good of the game. Beside, they employed a bunch of 'roid users. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 12:08 PM (Channeling The Scooter) Holy cow! This is the most shocking revellation so far. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/02/09/2009-02-09_yankees_captain_derek_jeter_says_arod_de.html El Capitan comes out with something that can be taken as a support of A-Rod? And I thought he was the guy who might have ratted him out. Will wonders never cease? Later metirish Feb 09 2009 12:13 PM I'm certain one of our members commented along these lines when this came out. From Ian O'Connor's article today. ] The first sign of serious trouble came last February, when Rodriguez volunteered he�d been drug-tested nine or ten times during his monster 2007 season. Players are supposed to be tested twice during a season, three times if selected for one of 600 additional random tests. A-Rod�s odds of being tested as much as he claimed were a gazillion to one, unless, of course, he�d turned up positive for amphetamines and earned an extra half-dozen mandatory trips to the urinal. O'Connor lays this mess on Hank. Hank MFS62 Feb 09 2009 12:19 PM There was a list in today's early edition of the Daily News that named some players who have been associated with taking drugs and steroids in various investigations. I couldn't find the link just now - it may have been replaced by the news that A-Rod may address the press later today. Anyhow, one of the names on the list was Rico Brogna. Had anyone seen his name mentioned about drugs before? Later Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 12:31 PM ARod is in the process of fessing up to Gammons (and ESPN is going to milk this access for all it's worth): - now admits he roided from 2001 to 2003 but not since metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 12:32 PM AP sez ARod confessing to using PEDs between 2001 and 2003. Probably a good move to get it out there. Even better if he says "Derek gave them to me!" metsmarathon Feb 09 2009 12:38 PM wow! good for him! that, btw, is exactly what i would've thought he should say. own up to using for more than you were caught for, and it makes the confession more believable. should be an interesting story to read more on later when i actually have time. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 01:07 PM The Andy Pettitte defense. I didn;t. Oh, you got me? OK I did metirish Feb 09 2009 01:08 PM Alex didn't know what he was taking either...of course you didn't..... metirish Feb 09 2009 02:27 PM I've been thinking about this and I don't dislike Rodriguez anymore after this debacle , I have never cared for him but this doesn't make me care even less for him. I have been following baseball since the mid nineties so in reality looking back I have been a fan in the steroid era. Centerfield Feb 09 2009 03:52 PM ="Frayed Knot":1w77txb8]="metirish":1w77txb8]Bill Madden in the Snooze today says the MFY's need to 'Cut him loose - no matter the cost" , they would be "applauded for it"....hey it's only $270 million....[/quote:1w77txb8] That's so absurdly over the top that it's barely worth discussing.[/quote:1w77txb8] It's like Klapisch and Madden are trying to have a dumb-off. Someone might want to point out to Madden that the "Yankee Brand" not only doesn't cut steroid users, they re-sign them (Pettite). MFS62 Feb 09 2009 04:02 PM Or forgive them (Giambi) Later bmfc1 Feb 09 2009 04:18 PM Real classy Alex: he accuses Selena Roberts of breaking into his house, scaring his kids, and only doing this because she has a book deal. bmfc1 Feb 09 2009 04:21 PM Alex: "God is doing this for a reason." Yeah, to expose you as a fraud, you self-righteous jackass. Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 05:13 PM ="bmfc1":2fg4x9go]Real classy Alex: he accuses Selena Roberts of breaking into his house, scaring his kids, and only doing this because she has a book deal.[/quote:2fg4x9go] That was the most interesting thing I took out of his chat w/Gammons (didn't hear/see all of it). And that's not going to gain him any brownie points with the scribes. Not a whole lot gets the collective media more in line as when one of their own is attacked for his/her motives. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 05:21 PM Motives? If this (the break in) is true, what about methods? Later MFS62 Feb 09 2009 06:35 PM Did he or didn't he is just copious quantities of ca ca. This is the real issue: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne...o&type=lgns Whoever leaked the list could look at doing some real hard time. Later Rockin' Doc Feb 09 2009 07:45 PM Lunchbucket - "I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed." They could just have Rivera invite A-Rod to a pool party. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 07:48 PM That's cold. Funny. But cold. Literally LOL! Later metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 08:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2q348b13]Lunchbucket - "I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed." They could just have Rivera invite A-Rod to a pool party.[/quote:2q348b13] Badass bullet of cool! metirish Feb 10 2009 06:35 AM I watched the interview last night , thought Gammons was disgraceful , not surprised by that though. Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 07:00 AM ="MFS62":2tuoh1qv]Motives? If this (the break in) is true, what about methods?[/quote:2tuoh1qv] I'm operating under the assumption that the stories* of Roberts breaking into his house and "stalking" him are, at best, over-the-top exaggerations and that what Alex considers to be criminal harassment will be seen by other reporters as 'doing her job'. So, yeah, I expect the media as a whole to close ranks around her rather than him. * Apparently there was "an incident" with reporter Roberts and a guard at the gate outside of Rodriguez's community. Not sure if that's what he's blown up into 'trying to break in' or if he's talking about something else. Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 10 2009 07:52 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]The Andy Pettitte defense. I didn;t. Oh, you got me? OK I did Actually, the Pettitte defense is more like: I didn't. Oh, you got me? Well, I only did it that time. Ok, I did it a little more than you caught me for, but never again or before. This defense allows you to seem like you're telling the truth, since you admit to just a smidge more than you got busted for, while at the same time limiting damage to your reputation, since there was only a small time span (always significantly in the past) in which you were cheating. This defense works well because people want to give these athletes the benefit of the doubt. I assume that these tests only snag the very tips of the icebergs in terms of how many are cheating and how often they are. I think A-Rod, Pettitte and countless others (including many Mets I loved and still love following) have used PEDs since high school and continue to cheat to the present day. Edgy DC Feb 10 2009 08:00 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker":3cjpun8v]This defense works well because people want to give these athletes the benefit of the doubt.[/quote:3cjpun8v] Unless, of course the athlete is A-Rod. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 10 2009 08:19 AM Not to stoke this more but Jeter fed his fanclub in the 4th estate an interesting line yesterday. Filip Bondy who may as well titled his piece in the snooze today GOD I LOVE THE TASTE OF DEREK'S BALLSACK practically apologizes for even asking whether Jeter did it and finds the answer: "Why would my name be on that list?" as an acceptable response. Note how Jeets dares his cheering section to accuse him of something, so he can act wronged from the start. metirish Feb 10 2009 09:12 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Filip Bondy who may as well titled his piece in the snooze today GOD I LOVE THE TASTE OF DEREK'S BALLSACK practically apologizes for even asking whether Jeter did it and finds the answer: "Why would my name be on that list?" as an acceptable response. . Bondy definitely finds that answer acceptable... ] That was the answer we wanted to hear. Jeter is the guy who stays out of trouble, doesn't go trawling for it. He remains single, so his romantic dalliances amuse instead of disgust us. He keeps quiet about the contract that expires in 2010, about his place in the lineup, about the pitchers and teammates and coaches who have failed him in recent seasons what would these guys do if their beloved Jeter was dirty...Snooze has 15 pages on Rodriguez. metsguyinmichigan Feb 10 2009 09:43 AM Jeter's proof is in his middling stats. If he put those numbers up in Kansas City, he'd be just another decent player. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 10 2009 09:47 AM No no no no no no. My point is if he played in this era he's a suspect whose denial is as sincere as anyone else's. Everyone is a suspect, and the papers still don't get it. And players from Termel Sledge to Manny Aybar should have proven by now that numbers have little to do with it. metirish Feb 10 2009 09:56 AM Yeah numbers mean nothing really , as we know a lot of players took them to help recover from injury or just to recover from games, unlike Rodriguez who was just young and stoopid. metsguyinmichigan Feb 10 2009 09:57 AM Letterman on ARod Top Ten Messages Left on Alex Rodriguez's Answering Machine 10 "Hey, it's Mark McGwire, want to get together this weekend and not talk about the past?" 9 "Joe Torre here, thanks for helping book sales." 8 "Could you find a steroid that keeps you from choking in the playoffs?" 7 "Are you worried this will taint all the championships you didn't win?" 6 "Hi, it's Bernie Madoff. Nice try, but I'm still the most hated man in NYC." 5 "Michael Phelps here, got any snacks?" 4 "Hi, this is Sammy Sosa, just pretend you don't speak English." 3 "Michael Phelps again, did I call you or did you call me?" 2 "Hi this is Rod Blagojevich, I'll say you're innocent if you say I am." and the Number One Message Left on Alex Rodriguez's Answering Machine: 1 "It's Madonna. You got a phone number for Jeter?" soupcan Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM Fucking funny! metirish Feb 10 2009 11:43 AM Hilarious from Letterman.... Representative Elijah Cummings apparently wants to bring Rodriguez before Congress. ] "I think we're going to have to see what Rodriguez will tell us," Cummings said in a phone interview. "He is in a confessing mode, so maybe he needs to put his apology into some meaningful action by cooperating with the committee so we can see if there are things we need to reopen to make sure baseball is doing all that it can to rid itself of this kind of practice." Edgy DC Feb 10 2009 11:47 AM Me as A-Rod: "I'll testify under oath if everybody else does. Don't have time for that? OK, then just Derek." metirish Feb 10 2009 11:48 AM Let's just play ball. MFS62 Feb 10 2009 11:51 AM Under HIPAA regulations (in force since 1996) divulging the results of a medical test without the express consent of the patient is a violation of Federal Law. The penalties are here: http://aspe.hhs.gov/admnsimp/pl104191.htm#1176 From information published about the A-Rod case, the tests were conducted by a licensed medical testing organization. To me, that makes them covered by that law. Those 2003 tests were conducted under the terms of anonymity. In that case, I can't believe any of the players testd signed a release/ waiver of those terms. Therefore, IMO anyone divulging those results has committed a crime and should be punished. Can any Medical folks here confirm my opinion? Later metirish Feb 10 2009 12:04 PM Our David has spoken ] Mets' David Wright praises A-Rod for coming clean BY DAVID LENNON | david.lennon@newsday.com 1:57 PM EST, February 10, 2009 David Wright praised Alex Rodriguez for coming clean on his PED use during Monday's interview with ESPN, but also took a hard-line against cheaters. "I hope that anybody who cheats get caught," Wright said. "Maybe its me being na�ve, but I think baseball is clean. You would have to be either very desperate or flat-out stupid to try and beat the system now." That said, Wright still believes that A-Rod is "a tremendous player" and laughed when someone asked about comparing himself to the Yankees' third baseman in the wake of these revelations. "He's better than me," a smiling Wright said Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 12:18 PM ]Under HIPAA regulations (in force since 1996) divulging the results of a medical test without the express consent of the patient is a violation of Federal Law. Fine. Now all you have to do is convince the government that they need to prosecute themselves over the fact that they're the ones who first confiscated, then leaked, the records. metirish Feb 10 2009 01:15 PM Congress thankfully win not haul Rodriguez in for a grilling. ] The statement from Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-NY) today reads: "The news that another one of baseball's premier players -- in addition to another 103 unnamed players -- used performance enhancing drugs is disturbing and sends yet another horrible message to our young people. "With unemployment in this country approaching double digits and our constituents' very livelihoods being threatened by the nation's economic woes, I intend to focus on passing President Obama's Economic Recovery legislation to get Americans back to work to fix our sinking economy. The American people need leaders who will focus on stemming job losses and getting credit to flow in the marketplace before hearing from yet another person who cheated both himself and the game of baseball. The Committee began this investigation in the face of a weak and ineffective drug testing policy that compromised the integrity of Major League Baseball. Now that baseball is implementing one of the most comprehensive drug testing policies in major league sports, I look forward to monitoring how well the policy is working to ensure the credibility of our national pastime. themetfairy Feb 10 2009 01:36 PM ="metirish"]Our David has spoken ] Mets' David Wright praises A-Rod for coming clean Wright said. "Maybe its me being na�ve, but I think baseball is clean. You would have to be either very desperate or flat-out stupid to try and beat the system now." Someone give that boy a hug. Or a puppy dog. themetfairy Feb 10 2009 01:42 PM Caple Blames Madonna For A-Rod's Steroid Use[/url:1axxb394]. G-Fafif Feb 10 2009 04:44 PM Just you wait -- some version of this[/url:1e05cmtc] will be written by at least one of the columnists cited. metirish Feb 10 2009 04:53 PM OMG , brilliant.... Edgy DC Feb 12 2009 08:13 AM Zev goes the whole nine yards, and the only moral failure he indicts the Rod for is giving up the juice and therefore ripping the Yankees off. Opinion A-Rod, get back on the 'roids You've got nothing to apologize about; drugs have been part of professional baseball for a long time. By Zev Chafets February 12, 2009 If it is true that Alex Rodriguez stopped using steroids in 2003, before he came to New York, the Yankees have been swindled. A-Rod hasn't been trying his hardest to win and help his team. In A-Rod's defense, it could be argued that there is no empirical proof that taking anabolic steroids improves baseball performance. But baseball players think they do. A-Rod himself admits he took steroids to make himself one of the greatest players of all time. Even if steroids are potentially dangerous (and despite suspicions, there is no proof that they cause permanent harm when properly administered to adult males), what of it? For many people, danger is the price of doing business. Construction workers, firefighters, cops and combat soldiers all take their lives in their hands to earn a living. According to Sports Illustrated, 104 major leaguers tested positive for steroids in 2003. That's about 10% of the players in the majors. Back in 2003, A-Rod didn't necessarily know who the other 103 users were. But he did know that they were out there someplace. They might have been pitchers he was facing, or fielders who caught up with his batted balls. He probably guessed that some of the juicers were the great hitters he was competing against for primacy and the money that goes with it. Can anybody blame A-Rod for leveling the playing field? What was he supposed to say: My rivals may be chemically enhancing their performances, but that's just a disadvantage I must live with? Baseball players have been doing drugs since Hall of Fame pitcher Pud Galvin shot up with monkey testosterone in 1889. And it's not just steroids, Since the '60s, major leaguers also have used amphetamines and downers. Players take them for professional purposes, not for fun. As every Little Leaguer has been taught, you sacrifice what you must for the good of the team. You play hurt if necessary, and you take your advantages where you find them. Gaylord Perry threw spitballs, more or less publicly, for 20 years, and he got into Cooperstown. As a player, John McGraw tripped so many base runners that baseball was forced to introduce an infield umpire -- and McGraw is in the Hall of Fame too. Even Babe Ruth was caught corking his bat. These and a hundred other incidents of sign stealing, bat tippling, ball scuffing and bat doctoring are staples of baseball lore, lovingly recounted by after-dinner speakers and broadcasters across American generations. Cheating is as much a part of Major League Baseball as alcoholism, ethnic bench jockeying and the ground-rule double. Besides, let's be honest. Americans love chemicals that provide an edge. Students use them to cram for finals. Pilots and surgeons take Provigil to keep sharp. Trial lawyers and Broadway actors pop beta blockers to ward off stage fright. Bob Dole pitched Viagra on television. I've even heard rumors about sportswriters who smoothed out their workdays with Prozac. Science marches on, no matter how much we long for the pristine days before medication. Ballplayers will always look for an edge, and chemists will always come up with one, and a way to evade testing too. "Everybody does it" is not a moral defense, but honestly, is this really a moral issue? Baseball hasn't treated it that way. Forty years after Jim Bouton revealed the widespread use of "greenies," no players have been seriously punished for using chemicals. Even now, the only real threat is getting banned from the Hall of Fame, and we'll see how long that lasts in the age of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens and A-Rod. The baseball establishment still hasn't made a real effort to stop players from using steroids, because it is believed that steroids enhance performance and help win games -- and that is what professional baseball is all about. Except, it turns out, to A-Rod. For the last four seasons, he has let his teammates and his fans down by doing less than his best. Unless, of course, he is lying about having quit in 2003, and he's been enhancing right along. Say that it's so, A-Rod. Say that it's so. Zev Chafets' book on the Baseball Hall of Fame, "Cooperstown Confidential," will be published in May. Rockin' Doc Feb 12 2009 11:09 AM My dear Mr. Chafets, You sir, are an idiot. Sincerely, --Rockin' Doc metirish Feb 12 2009 11:36 AM ] As a player, John McGraw tripped so many base runners that baseball was forced to introduce an infield umpire -- and McGraw is in the Hall of Fame too. For fucks sake man get a grip . Ashie62 Feb 12 2009 05:04 PM ="metirish":1ih6vdd4]Let's just play ball.[/quote:1ih6vdd4] Yup...This whole steroid drama is wearing thin..Since no Ballplayers are beyond question as to taking performance enhancers why don't we do this to wrap up the issue for good. 1. On opening day for all teams at their own parks have every player in uniform do 200 Military squats as punishment and penance. Fans can use the time to boo or heckle to vent, or step out to get some delicious Wise snacks. 2. Have Selig sac up and designate 1996-2003 the "live ball era" or whatever you would like to call it. 3. Current Drug Testing Policies are in place to move forward. Lastly, I'm not going to hammer Arod or any other abuser as I won't should any of our boys get outed...I can't imagine David Wright ever being involved in this mess but as I said..no one is beyond question. Now play ball!!! soupcan Feb 13 2009 11:21 AM If anyone's interested - Pete Rose is going to be on WFAN with Francesa in a couple of minutes. I'm sure he'll be talking about Alex. seawolf17 Feb 17 2009 12:05 PM This press conference is insipid. PatchyFogg Feb 17 2009 12:09 PM ="soupcan":ko45fwv9]If anyone's interested - Pete Rose is going to be on WFAN with Francesa in a couple of minutes. I'm sure he'll be talking about Alex.[/quote:ko45fwv9] And, we're having Kirk Radomski live at 9:15PM tonight on LI's 90.3FM in case anyone is in the listening area. I'll put it up at http://hosted.filefront.com/patchyfogg after the show. In the meantime (at the same website), you can check out the 2 commercial-free hour Mets Preview that we did with Adam Rubin right before he left for Port St. Lucie. Nymr83 Feb 17 2009 12:12 PM ="seawolf17":3rs9xhqj]This press conference is insipid.[/quote:3rs9xhqj] What more did you want him to say? I relize the media needs to keep beating it to death because they have columns to fill, but I've heard all I need to hear already. metirish Feb 17 2009 12:52 PM It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 17 2009 12:57 PM John Harper in the meantime is suckered into taking Texiera's word he's never used, why he's "cleaner than Derek Jeter if that's even possible" (yes, he actually wrote that today). themetfairy Feb 17 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":2kjyziqi]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:2kjyziqi] How does he feel about World Peace? holychicken Feb 17 2009 03:03 PM ="Ashie62":2gt1v9x0]2. Have Selig sac up and designate 1996-2003 the "live ball era" or whatever you would like to call it.[/quote:2gt1v9x0] The "small balls era" makes more sense. metirish Feb 17 2009 08:14 PM Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone"..... Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:20 PM Is that something he wrote or said? metirish Feb 17 2009 08:29 PM I was watching the news and he said it, not the exact quote from me but close . MFS62 Feb 17 2009 09:17 PM ="themetfairy":67aky83c]="metirish":67aky83c]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:67aky83c] How does he feel about World Peace?[/quote:67aky83c] It doesn't matter. He's not competing for Miss America. Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:57 PM ="metirish":cg5944xb]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:cg5944xb] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask? Nymr83 Feb 18 2009 02:26 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":2ac33j35]="metirish":2ac33j35]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:2ac33j35] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask?[/quote:2ac33j35] Sorry Johnny, whatever he took was probably illegal in the U.S. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:59 AM I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates. metirish Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM More from Johnny....to the print media he had this to say..... ] "It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone"It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone "We can go out there and support him," Damon added, "because we know we can't go out there and win a World Series without him." Rodriguez's amatuer hour defense defies logic , I didn't expect anything else from him but it couldn't have been more staged if he were on Broadway. Frayed Knot Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM ="Edgy DC":1kos7lsf]I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates.[/quote:1kos7lsf] That would explain all the death and destruction in the world. Re: Damon -- His name came up in a round-table type sports discussion I was listening to and the panel was deftly using euphemisms like "an uncomplicated man" when describing him in order to keep from flat-out saying that he's basically box-of-rocks stupid. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 07:19 AM Yes, Johnny, murder, manslaughter --- these things are worse than cheating at baseball. Thank you for your incisive analysis. For a counterpoint, here's Ambiorix Burgos.

This is the most interesting part to me: "Three major league players who spoke to SI said that Rodriguez was also tipped by Orza in early September 2004 that he would be tested later that month. Rodriguez declined to respond on Thursday when asked about the warning Orza provided him. When Orza was asked on Friday in the union's New York City office about the tipping allegations, he told a reporter, "I'm not interested in discussing this information with you." I have no idea what the fine print said on the original agreement but I bet that the head of one side tipping off players in advance so as to skew the results and/or protect certain stars wasn't listed as kosher. As far as A-Rod himself, obviously this is going to be a big deal simply because it's ARod helped along by his previous (60 Minutes among others) 'Why I never!' denials. But other than that ... Yawn. I've long operated under the theory that a significant number of players were taking during the early-'90s thru early 2000s decade and have no interest in trying to retroactively condemn those caught while holding up those not caught as clean and pure. It happened, neither MLB nor labor acted quickly enough, and it's going to be a cloud over that era and those who played in it forever. Now move on.

Considering that his best OBA in the minors was .374 (350 ABs in AA in '08) and his career for the minors was .352, those .370+ projections are probably a bit generous for what will be essentially his rookie year - even based on the near .400 level during his brief ML audition.

Newsday: The Mets announced Friday that Fernando Martinez, their highly regarded young outfielder, has a strained right elbow and will rest for three weeks before resuming a throwing program. So this at least prevents him from hitting the ground running when ST starts. On the other hand it's not like he'll be out of shape after playing much of the winter and, assuming this isn't a long-term problem, it might almost be a good thing seeing as it'll take the idea of starting the season with him in Queens from creeping into anyone's mind.

10) I honestly believe that installing a standard where future managers will be barred in perpetuity from speaking derisively of the club or any of its employees is totally consistent with an organization run by my father for 35 years.

]Feliciano, 32, has become one of the Mets' more reliable relievers. While he put up a 4.05 ERA in 2008, he limited lefty batters to a .280 on-base percentage and .295 slugging percentage. And as long as you don't mention the walks and what he did to 1st batters faced last season those BA/SLG numbers look OK.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1v6ar1zc]Katie Strang, bringin it strong.[/quote:1v6ar1zc] Considering that the only other time I've seen her name in Newsday sports is when she's covering human cockfighti ... I mean the "Mixed Martial Arts" scene, I suppose that talking to idiot Met fans in sub-freezing weather isn't so bad. Or maybe she's an MMA groupie and enjoys that stuff, who knows.

Also reportedly looking at Will Ohman as a 2nd lefty out of the pen. Bet the headline writers are already teeing some up for his breakdowns: Oh Man!!

Re: Leiber; yes, but I think it was post-surgery and not pre. Plus you don't want to do this at a time when it'll cost you a draft pick. So maybe after the cut-n-slice sounds like it worked and after the draft is done in June and you're off the hook for compensation it may be time to look into a rehab signing.

An entry from BA's 'Late Picks to Emerging Prospects' file: John Raynor, OF, Marlins: Raynor signed in 2006 after his senior season as a ninth-round pick from UNC Wilmington. Though he was already 23, the Marlins started Raynor in low Class A, where he batted .333/.429/.519 for hitter-friendly Greensboro. Raynor skipped over high Class A and continued his success last year for Double-A Carolina, hitting .312/.402/.489 in 126 games. Raynor�s best tool is his speed�he�s an 80 runner on the 20-80 scouting scale who stole 48 bases in 59 attempts (81 percent) last year. Despite his speed and his production, many scouts are still skeptical. Though he�s an 80 runner, Raynor is better suited for left field because his outfield instincts aren�t good and his arm strength is below-average. He has some holes in his swing and in his strike zone�low and away and then against elevated or inside fastballs�that led to 122 strikeouts in 534 plate appearances, but those strikeouts don�t come with the acceptable tradeoff of plus power.

Maybe Kim Shamsky saw your wife with Art and figured ... oh never mind.

Never can say goodbye No no no no, I Never can say goodbye Even though the pain and heartache Seems to follow me wherever I go Though I try and try to hide my feelings They always seem to show Then you try to say you're leaving me And I always have to say no... Tell me why Is it so That I ... Never can say goodbye No no no no, I Never can say goodbye Evertime I think I had enough I start heading for the door There's a very strange vibration That pierces me right to the core It says turn around you fool You know you love her more and more Tell me why Is it so Don't wanna let yo go I never can say goodbye

Kucinich was doing the same thing with the land valuation question of the area around YSIII -- basically acting as a self-appointed over-seer for what is essentially a local issue far from his particular locality.

George Vecsey's column in Tuesday's NYTimes: On July 4, the 70th anniversary of Lou Gehrig�s immortal �luckiest man on the face of the earth� speech, Major League Baseball will help fight the disease that bears the name of its doomed hero. In 15 home ballparks that day, baseball will seek to raise money and awareness of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or A.L.S., known as Lou Gehrig�s disease, which currently has no cure. Major League Baseball will announce the details of this program Tuesday. The event is the brainchild of Michael Goldsmith, 57, a law professor in Utah, who was given what he calls a �death sentence� in September 2006, the ominous signs of A.L.S. Goldsmith�s first impulse was to turn to the sport of his childhood, that nearly perfect world where players hit and run, pitch and catch. After a joyous week at a fantasy camp of the Baltimore Orioles, his favorite team as a boy in New York, Goldsmith began to identify with Gehrig, the great Yankee slugger who retired July 4, 1939, and died June 2, 1941. In an article in Newsweek in November, Goldsmith challenged baseball to publicly take on the killer disease on the Gehrig anniversary, on the basis that baseball had gotten great mileage from the legend of Gehrig. Goldsmith�s proposal was later amplified in The New York Times. Then an amazing thing happened. Bud Selig, the commissioner of baseball, read Goldsmith�s suggestion. And Selig called a meeting. �Baseball is a social institution,� Selig said the other day, referring to baseball�s deep and daily roots. Although baseball can be criticized for many things, the business often recognizes its civic role, taking up causes like remembering Jackie Robinson and other heroes, and fighting cancer and other diseases. Selig, 74, who is a legitimate baseball buff, has watched the 1942 Gehrig movie, �The Pride of the Yankees,� at least 50 times. �What I�ve always heard is that Gehrig was exactly as he was portrayed,� Selig said. �There�s no question Babe Ruth was a great player, but people tell me, �Commissioner, you don�t know how great Gehrig was.� � Selig was referring to Gehrig�s 2,130-game streak from 1925 to 1939, a record until 1995; his career batting average of .340; and his 493 home runs. With legs like stone pillars, Gehrig also stole home 15 times. The only thing that slowed him was A.L.S., �a progressive neurodegenerative disease that affects nerve cells in the brain and the spinal cord,� according to the A.L.S. Association. Goldsmith, who has a slower version of A.L.S., continues to teach at Brigham Young University and lobby against the disease. He has gained allies. Selig turned over the project to Jacqueline Parkes, the chief marketing officer for M.L.B., who, by total coincidence, had a personal connection. Her father, Dr. James C. Parkes II, an orthopedic surgeon, was the Mets� team physician from 1974 to 1991. In 1995 he was told he had a neurological ailment that his daughter described as somewhere between A.L.S. and Parkinson�s Disease. He died in 1999, at age 64. Parkes said she was deeply pleased when Selig told her what they would be doing for the 70th anniversary. �Typically, we don�t do anniversaries except for 50 or 75, but there is nothing typical about A.L.S.,� she said. With Parkes at the point, baseball has forged a working partnership with four organizations: Project A.L.S.; A.L.S. Therapy Development Institute; the A.L.S. Association; and M.D.A.�s Augie�s Quest, led by Augie Nieto, a co-founder of the company that created the Lifecycle exercise machine, who is battling his own case of A.L.S. To Goldsmith�s delight, he was included in every teleconference as Parkes organized the events for July 4, when 30 clubs will auction off items worn by players that day. In this current recession, there is concern about how much money can be raised for research, but clubs and players will be encouraged to contribute. Selig indicated that M.L.B. would make a contribution. On the anniversary, Gehrig�s speech will be read during the seventh-inning stretch � the real one, written by Gehrig, a Columbia University man, and not the somewhat-altered version that was delivered by Gary Cooper in the movie. Goldsmith said his own relationship with Gehrig had deepened over the months, �helping me face my fears, face my demons.� He added, �I don�t know if Gehrig was religious, but I do know how physically brave he was.� Goldsmith has also explored his spiritual side, �what the Buddhists call learning to swim well through the ocean of suffering,� he said. Lately, he has been reading Viktor E. Frankl�s book, �Man�s Search for Meaning,� the spiritual journey of a Holocaust survivor. Goldsmith says he derives great solace from baseball. �Their response has been in keeping with the �Field of Dreams� image,� he said, referring to the movie in which faith in baseball links the generations. �They have been honest, straightforward, about everything,� he said of the M.L.B. officials. �They have exposed me to the sunny side of baseball, not just the financial side. They have a heart.� Goldsmith hopes to travel to a major league stadium on July 4 and read part of Gehrig�s speech, at an event he envisioned and that baseball will make happen.

Might be an interesting guy to keep tabs on this year. Low power, yet excellent plate discipline/OBA skills, it sounds like his career could hinge on his ability to adapt defensively as a relative late-comer to catching. BA lists him in an article about low-round draft picks making good: Josh Thole, C, Mets: A 13th-round pick in 2005 out of Mater Dei High in Breese, Ill. Thole was a light-hitting first baseman in low Class A in 2007, when he batted .267/.311/.372 in 117 games for Savannah. Last year, Thole had a mini-breakout as he hit .300/.382/.427 in 111 games for high Class A St. Lucie in the FSL. Thole has always controlled the strike zone (he has 133 walks and 131 strikeouts in his minor league career). He has excellent bat-to-ball skills, as the 21-year-old lefthanded hitter struck out last year only 38 times (nine percent of his 402 plate appearances). Thole also became a full-time catcher, the position he played in high school and dabbled in sparingly in his previous three pro seasons. Scouts have concerns about Thole�s defense and his below-average power. Thole hit only hit five home runs in 2008, but that�s an improvement from the goose egg he posted in that category in �07. He�ll likely start this season in Double-A and play all year at age 22 as a relatively under-the-radar prospect.

The Yanx would trade him (either him or Swisher). The question then becomes what you're willing to give up. They gave up several promising (although hardly guaranteed) prospects to snag him last summer.

Appier was the perfect example of reacting to losing the big guy (Hampton in this case) by deciding you HAVE TO HAVE the next best thing. It's a condition that leads to over-paying and it helps prove the adage about it being easier to recover from the guy you don't sign then it is to recover from the one you sign at the wrong price. The Vince Coleman/Strawberry example works here too. In this case both Hampton & Appier were signed at the wrong price and, by the time each contract was done, numerous teams (Mets, Angels, Rockies, Marlins, Braves) got burned along the way.

="metirish":10z02g9u]I have no memory of Costas doing p-b-p , has he been out of the picture that long , was he any good?[/quote:10z02g9u] Back when NBC had the national package he was their main guy for years. As with most guys he's going to have his fans as well as his detractors (see FMan). But at least with Costas he's one of the few national sports voices who doesn't either look down at baseball with barely disguised contempt or ignore it until there's a negative story (steroids, contract disputes) to stomp on with both feet. IOW, rather than being a network grunt only doing baseball because some media giant is paying him big bucks and therefore feels obligated to give him something do during the summer, he actually likes and knows the game. Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 07:47 AM The guy has opinions, but he supports his positions with rational arguments, unlike "I'm Brockton T. Fuckin' Broadcaster, with thirty years in this business and a golden throat/All Star career background, so I know whereof I speak." Frayed Knot Feb 14 2009 06:18 AM An hour-long 1969 WS highlights show on today at 9:30 AM and again at 6:00 PM bmfc1 Feb 14 2009 08:42 AM Mr. Administrator, Can we please change the name of this thread to simply "MLB Network" as it is long since passed the preview stage? I appreciate this thread as my online TV Guide still doesn't include the program names for the channel. Thank you. Kong76 Feb 21 2009 12:12 PM Seaver's 300th win going to ninth inning NOW!!! at Yankee Stadium. Lindsey Freakin' Nelson in the booth! Frayed Knot Feb 24 2009 08:47 AM The name of the nightly show on MLBN has morphed from 'Hot Stove' to 'MLB Tonight' - something that sounds like thier way of acknowledging that games (even meaningless ones) are starting on a daily basis. And their nightly preview feature '30 Teams/30 Days' visits Port St. Lucie for their Mets run-down tonight (and likely repeated 7 or 8 times over the next few days). bmfc1 Feb 24 2009 09:34 AM It looks like the MLB Network will have 2 or 3 ST games each day, using a local feed. Friday's game will be on live, w/the SNY crew. metirish Mar 03 2009 01:15 PM I caught Sever on the other night , he was interviewed in Studio 42. At times it was painful to watch as the host tried to engage Seaver in some banter and getting curt responses in return. An ex pitcher whose name escapes me was also there and asked the usual questions about pitch counts that gets Seaver going , at times like that Seaver can be engaging . I was surprised that they got him out to Jersey for an interview. Frayed Knot Mar 03 2009 01:39 PM ]An ex pitcher whose name escapes me Joe McGrane - came up with the Cards in the late '80s/early '90s and I guy I thought was going to be real good, sort of a bigger, better Al Leiter-type. But his career never really panned out so he quickly turned his quotable personality and good looks into a broadcasting jobs almost immediately after he quit playing. apmorris Mar 03 2009 01:57 PM ="metirish":1gdycu5c]I caught Sever on the other night , he was interviewed in Studio 42. At times it was painful to watch as the host tried to engage Seaver in some banter and getting curt responses in return. An ex pitcher whose name escapes me was also there and asked the usual questions about pitch counts that gets Seaver going , at times like that Seaver can be engaging . I was surprised that they got him out to Jersey for an interview.[/quote:1gdycu5c] I thought he was pretty frank - especially concerning pitchers today and the overuse of set-up and closers. He did look a little uncomfortable. metirish Mar 03 2009 02:28 PM Uncomfortable yet confident enough to sport dark blue denim jeans with brown cowboy boots and a sleeveless zip up jacket thing.( wears similar sleeveless jackets a lot) metirish Mar 03 2009 04:33 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 03 2009 06:20 PM video Seaver[/url:2rm6m0xe] themetfairy Mar 03 2009 05:55 PM Irish - that's an adorable picture, but it's not video. Nor is it Seaver. metirish Mar 03 2009 06:21 PM Thanks metfairy.... themetfairy Mar 03 2009 06:26 PM Ah - much better. Thanks Irish apmorris Mar 03 2009 07:18 PM I haven't seen Al Leiter, who's always good, on MLBN yet but I have seen most of the rest of the crew. Let me break it down for you. MLBN, The Best Damn On-Air Personalities Period! Matt Vasgersian Theater Major (like most ESPN Anchoroons), has all the smarminess of Costas and is easily a half inch taller. Harold Reynolds is feeling it. Free from all ass-grabbing accusations, cutting lose and taking over every panel they put him on. He's so comfortable up there. maybe he can start working getting off whatever meds he's taking. Hazel Mae has a great name if you're the Weather chick on WSTRPPR in Cincinnati. Too much lip gloss to be taken seriously, seriously. BTW, some of my best friends are Polynesian. Mitch Williams has a bad attitude, which is always a plus. Barry Larkin is a mannequin or Yul Brynner in Westworld resurrected. Jon Heyman Great to see Heyman has no real solid leads or news or opinions on TV also. Trenni Kusnierek Hope home girl is using sun block 180. Joe Magrane can trigger epilepsy episodes with his misplaced pregnant pauses. Sounds like a fully recovered stutterer. Has a great head of hair, which may or may not be his own. Dan Plesac Hey, remember Dan from the Brewers in the 90s? ... me either. The 80s?. Seems like a nice guy. Scored high on the Wonderlic. more later .... http://mlbnetwork.mlb.com/network/personalities/ John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 03 2009 08:24 PM Vasgerian sounds like a treatment for that not-so-fresh feeling. Hazel Mae has nice pineapples. Gwreck Mar 03 2009 08:31 PM MLB Network is producing their own documentaries/features as well now: apparently there's one on the Young family (Dmitri and Delmon) and one on Josh Hamilton. Watched the Hamilton one (was ok, nothing special) except for the moment early on in the show when they're talking about Hamilton's various baseball skills and they mention his arm, and cut to a shot of him throwing out a runner at third. I mention I think we were there for the game...go quickly check the scorecard I kept, and yep, it was Hamilton throwing out Marco Scutaro, 9 to 5, top of the 6th inning on August 2nd of last year. All of this is mostly just a long way of saying that this channel is great and is my default "flip to" channel when whatever I'm watching goes to commercial, or is boring, or I can't find anything else to watch. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 03 2009 08:36 PM Yes, I'm liking it too. I'm gonna forget what channel espn was any day now. Fman99 Mar 04 2009 08:02 PM Just noticed that my cable provider has added the HD feed of MLB Network. Very happy about that. apmorris Mar 04 2009 08:07 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2yiupyby]Yes, I'm liking it too. I'm gonna forget what channel espn was any day now.[/quote:2yiupyby] Yes. I even went so far as to block ESPN. Don't need the hype machine no more. soupcan Mar 04 2009 08:17 PM Lost in the this thread is ap's excellent comedic analysis of the MLB Network on-air staff. You made me laugh anyway. Kong76 Mar 08 2009 11:08 AM Maybe it's a comment on my lack of a life, but that sound bite they play over and over and over and over for the 30 Clubs in 30 Days song is going to put me over the edge. Excellent show, they don't think the Mets will suck much either! Kong76 Mar 08 2009 12:09 PM F99: Just noticed that my cable provider has added the HD feed of MLB Network <<< Thanks for mentioning that, Cablevision snuck it onto channel 790 while I wasn't paying attention. Kong76 Mar 08 2009 01:10 PM Never mind HD, South Africa wouldn't look good in 3D Sensory Smellavision. themetfairy Mar 13 2009 06:02 PM Right now they're showing the MFY/BoSox game. Boston is up 7-1, and it's the NESN feed so we get to hear Jerry Remy's Bahston accent. Next to a Mets game, this is as good as it gets metirish Apr 07 2009 07:47 PM I hate the day after Opening Day but at least we have MLB Network. I've been watching their MLB Tonight 1st to 3rd show , love it. They pop back and forth between games , they just had a Milton Bradley AB against Wandy Rodriguez in a big spot in that game , two men on base. They showed the whole AB that ended with Matsui turning a sweet DP. themetfairy Apr 07 2009 07:54 PM Plus this is the free preview week for MLB Extra Innings, for out of market games. metirish Apr 08 2009 09:52 AM ="themetfairy":14hamc5h]Plus this is the free preview week for MLB Extra Innings, for out of market games.[/quote:14hamc5h] I was going through those too, Rob Dibble doing color for the Nats , he's as useless as tits on a bull. Watched some of the games featuring the Blue Jays at home and the Twins at home , I absolutely hate watching games on FieldTurf. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 08 2009 09:29 PM Vin Scully calling the Dodgers-Pods game, Padres wearing their fatigues. DocTee Apr 08 2009 09:31 PM ]Rob Dibble doing color for the Nats , he's as useless as tits on a bull. Quote of the year candidate right here. MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:26 AM About how many games into the season do you think it will take for mlb network to realize that Bonds is no longer playing for SF, and therefore nobody cares about watching their games? Later Fman99 Apr 09 2009 06:28 AM ="MFS62":3q171fhs]About how many games into the season do you think it will take for mlb network to realize that Bonds is no longer playing for SF, and therefore nobody cares about watching their games? Later[/quote:3q171fhs] They actually have quite a few young talented hitters (Ishikawa, Sandoval, Lewis) a pretty solid rotation and a few live arms in their pen. They're missing a big bat though. themetfairy Apr 09 2009 06:39 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2znwpofn]Vin Scully calling the Dodgers-Pods game, Padres wearing their fatigues.[/quote:2znwpofn] I love listening to Scully call games. Centerfield Apr 09 2009 12:17 PM ="themetfairy":1dpmlfux]="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1dpmlfux]Vin Scully calling the Dodgers-Pods game, Padres wearing their fatigues.[/quote:1dpmlfux] I love listening to Scully call games.[/quote:1dpmlfux] Yup. ON EDIT: He's one of the handful of people who when I hear their voice makes me feel like a kid. Brent Musberger and Casey Kasem are some others. metirish Apr 24 2009 02:25 PM Nearly a month into the season and MLB Network is my default station. I love all the live look-ins to games , as soon as SNY goes to break I flip over to MLB. I don't watch Baseball Tonight anymore , no point really. HahnSolo Apr 24 2009 02:48 PM I agree, although none of the hosts/analysts have really grown on me. Larkin is about as bland as they come, and he seems to always be on. Harold Reynolds is OK. Frayed Knot Apr 24 2009 02:56 PM Neil Best in today's Newsday[/url:2aq3rzp9] on MLBN's nightly show. He does this every once in a while: goes the entire day (or a good portion of it) watching one sports-TV related thing just to see how sane he comes out on the other side. I know he's done the NFL draft (I'd shoot myself by hour 2) and once did MSG on a summer day not long after they lost the Mets and had nothing but the winter sports teams remaining. Lotsa informercials and cheesy in-house stuff IIRC. apmorris Apr 24 2009 09:21 PM I've had it on in the background since the season started. I agree about Larkin. The hosts for the most part are OK, this guy though has an acute case of Scott Van Peltism Edgy DC Apr 24 2009 09:45 PM Did you have to pick a wanking shot? G-Fafif May 06 2009 01:12 PM If you're outside the NYC area, you can watch Thursday night's game on MLBN, Bob Costas and Al Leiter at the mics. Blacked out here. Benjamin Grimm May 06 2009 01:17 PM I'm sure it will be blacked out in Philadelphia too. Since I don't have Comcast cable, I can't see most of the local Phillies broadcasts, except for the relatively few that are on the over-the-air channel. apmorris May 06 2009 01:31 PM MLBNetwork, The Best Damn On-Air Personalities Period! (part 3) Billy Ripken He got the job on his own merits, just like how he got his job with the Orioles. ps. Does MLBN know we have to look at him whens he talks? from G-Fafif May 06 2009 01:44 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2rks6vvy]I'm sure it will be blacked out in Philadelphia too.[/quote:2rks6vvy] I suppose. It was hard enough to acknowledge there was a world outside of New York to remember another city might be involved. bmfc1 May 06 2009 05:07 PM Billy Ripken does a good job on MLBN, just as he does on XM Baseball. He is also a great teacher of the game at the Ripken Baseball Camp. Swan Swan H Jun 27 2009 10:48 AM Game 5 of the 1968 NLCS on NOW! It's the bottom of the 1st, and it's scheduled to run until 4:30, if you want to check in for the big finish.

MLBN gets Bob Costas on board -- a logical choice that brings tiny Bob out of his baseball-less world (he'll still work for NBC) but still a good "get" for them. Will do p-b-p for some of their games as well as studio work - kicking off tomorrow with a one-hour Torre interview

You had me at 'Hola'

Wiggy would be a train-wreck as a full-time 2B

Dang! Problem is he wasn't going to be offered a starting job here or a starter's salary for a platoon situation. Nice that he found regular work although the O's probably locked themselves into a below-average 1st baseman offense for the next two years.

Citigroup Inc. is considering the possibility of backing out of its $400 million naming-rights deal for the New York Mets' new stadium, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal. The report cited "people familiar with the matter." Ahh yes, the always popular "people familiar" source. What it sounds like is that Citi is feeling outside pressure and is at least looking into what it might take to break thinking that maybe this would stem the tide of criticism. Never mind that they still sponsor a host of other sports stuff, this deal seems to be the center of the bullseye right now. The team has every intention of continuing with the deal (of course, because they'd never get another nearly as large) and I'm thinking they'd probably put up a legal fight to keep it. oe: cross-post