Frayed Knot

Jeremy Reed hops aboardick the train with a signed deal.

"Provisional" rosters for the WBC were submitted yesterday. Mets include: Beltran, Carlos - PR Bowman, Shawn - CAN Cuan, Angel - PAN (19 y/o LHP who was with the Mets' VZL team in 2008) Delgado, Carlos - PR Feliciano, Jesus - PR (29 y/o OF who spent each of the last 2 seasons with New Orleans) Feliciano, Pedro - PR Putz, J.J. - USA Reyes, Jose - DOM Rodriguez, Francisco - VEN Santana, Johan - VEN Schneider, Brian - USA Tejada, Ruben - PAN (18 y/o SS with Pt St Lucie in 2008) Welch, Stefan - AUS (19 y/o 1B/3B with Kingsport in 2008) Wright, David - USA Putting a player on the provisional roster doesn't mean they're committed to play (Santana may yet be pulled depending on the condition of his knee) although no players can be added to the final roster who are NOT on the preliminary list.

... no longer has Duaner Sanchez aboardick -- as he and the Mets agreed to a one-year contract worth $1,687,500, a big raise from the $950,000 he made last year. [Newsday] The deal will likely be formally announced on Tuesday. Meanwhile, five other Mets remain eligible for arbitration and are set to exchange proposed figures with the team on Tuesday: John Maine Ryan Church Pedro Feliciano and outfielders Jeremy Reed and Angel Pagan.

Fossum was the subject of many 'Don't Trade Him' cries from Boston fans back in his prospect days. He eventually went to Arizona in the Schilling deal. Now already 30 y/o with a not very impressive trailing him, he's nothing more than LH filler at best.

="metsguyinmichigan":va8fttx0]Is this Sheet AND Ollie or Sheets OR Ollie?[/quote:va8fttx0] I suspect one or the other but not both. Rockin' Doc Jan 19 2009 06:43 AM From what I have read in most reports, Perez is the Mets first choice now that Lowe is in Atlanta. Sheets, Wolf, Garland, etc. are potential back up plans should Perez (and Boras) play hard to get. Personally, I think I would prefer to have Sheets. Perez has a tremendous arm and great stuff, but he often leaves me wondering where his head is at. Benjamin Grimm Jan 19 2009 06:51 AM I too would prefer Sheets. Even if he misses time with an injury, we'll probably get as many good starts from Sheets as from Perez, and fewer bad starts. Vince Coleman Firecracker Jan 19 2009 10:06 AM I would rather 150 innings of Sheets and 50 of Niese than 200 of Perez, and 100/100 of those two might still be more useful than a full season of Ollie. Centerfield Jan 20 2009 08:18 AM Lots more sources picking up on the Mets interest in Sheets. Tom Verducci was talking about it on the MLB Network, there's a piece in the Daily News this morning. The more I think about it, they really have to pull the trigger on Sheets. It is the only way they can significantly improve the rotation from last year. And they need to improve the pitching if they're not going to do anything about the lineup. TransMonk Jan 20 2009 09:18 AM I'm not a big fan of Sheets...his upsides and downsides are terribly drastic. That being said, he probably has the best potential upside available for next season. His eldest son is named after Tom Seaver. That's gotta be worth something I guess. DocTee Jan 24 2009 09:57 AM According to Buster Olney, Texas mulling a two-year, $16M offer to Ben. http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/story/1162289.html That's a steal, considering: "Over the last five seasons, the 30-year-old Sheets has an ERA of 3.24; his ERA has never been higher than 3.82 in any season, and was as low as 2.70 in 2004. His strikeout-to-walk ratio has never been worse than 2.87 to 1. Hitters have never had an OPS against him, in any season, higher than .705. In 2008, Sheets made 31 starts, threw 198 1/3 innings, posted an ERA of 3.09 while pitching in Milwaukee's bandbox, held opposing hitters to a .390 slugging percentage, started for the National League in the All-Star Game, struck out 158 while walking just 47..." metsmarathon Jan 24 2009 10:32 AM grr... Frayed Knot Jan 24 2009 11:14 AM Sheets lives in Texas which may give them the inside track there. Be nice if Omar were to match that offer and convince Big Ben that staying in the NL and staying out of that hitters' haven with the daily 90+ degree heat will be better for him in the long run. Then tell Boras that he can review that offer plus this newest one we supposedly made to Ollie and tell him first one to say yes gets the job. Nymr83 Jan 24 2009 12:16 PM ]According to Buster Olney, Texas mulling a two-year, $16M offer to Ben sounds cheap, offer him a 3rd year at the same price Omar! metsmarathon Jan 24 2009 12:57 PM uh, i'd go 2x9 before i went 3x8. but i'd be happy to include a vesting option for the third. Rockin' Doc Jan 24 2009 01:33 PM I like marathon's plan. Sheets has tremendous talent, but given his injury history I don't want to see the Mets guarantee more than two years to him. Centerfield Jan 24 2009 08:25 PM Come on Omar. At least make a fucking offer. Fman99 Jan 24 2009 08:39 PM ="Centerfield":3glgv0y9]Come on Omar. At least make a fucking offer.[/quote:3glgv0y9] Do something. Jeez, pitchers and catchers report in what, 3 weeks? metirish Jan 24 2009 08:44 PM Watch the MFY's come in a sign him. Frayed Knot Jan 25 2009 06:34 PM Just a few warning signs via the Ft Worth Star-Telegram: Lingering concerns over the status of Ben Sheets� right elbow could ultimately prevent the Texas Rangers from signing the free-agent All-Star pitcher to an incentive-laden contract. The Rangers have examined Sheets� medical reports, but sources said the club wants the most recent information on his torn flexor tendon. It�s an injury the Rangers know too well. Jason Jennings lasted only six starts last season before suffering a second torn flexor tendon in nine months. In both instances � August 2007 and May 2008 � Jennings had surgery. Sheets� tear did not require surgery, and he has resumed his normal preseason throwing program. He threw twice last week at Rangers Ballpark in Arlington. However, the Highland Park resident has not undergone a physical and would have to pass one performed by Rangers doctors before a deal could be completed. The likelihood that an agreement will be reached by Monday, if at all this week, is waning. Centerfield Jan 26 2009 10:16 AM Is a torn flexor tendon what knocked out Wagner? The article doesn't make it clear whether the Rangers are concerned because he had a torn flexor tendon, or whether they feel he still has a torn flexor tendon. Edgy DC Jan 26 2009 10:26 AM I'm a fan of Ben Sheets and want the Mets in the mix, but I think the fans are being too hard here on poor ol' Omar. 1) Yeah, Sheets numbers from last year make him look pretty healthy, but that's because his injury took place at the end of the season, after he logged those numbers, but it shut him down for the playoffs. And the nature of an injury at the end of your season and your contract means that nobody knows the extent of the damage or what they're getting until you take the mound somewhere and log some time. 2) Isn't Omar getting somewhat hammered for the lost gamble he took on Moises Alou? If you pressure your GM to roll the dice, be a little more forgiving when he craps out once in a while. A Texas Ranger blogger takes a close look at this injury history here: http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/01/the-ben-sheets-medical-file.html Maybe Sheets and Nolan can talk blister cures. batmagadanleadoff Jan 26 2009 10:53 AM ="Centerfield":11j9ihkf]Is a torn flexor tendon what knocked out Wagner? The article doesn't make it clear whether the Rangers are concerned because he had a torn flexor tendon, or whether they feel he still has a torn flexor tendon.[/quote:11j9ihkf] Flexor Shmexor. I'm worried that Johan Santana might've sustained some permanent and irreversible diminishment of his abilities as a result of the surgery to repair his torn left meniscus. I realize that his injury is considered minor but still, it's Johan's rear pitching leg. On the other hand, no one else seems to be making a big deal about the surgery. And Santana did pitch his best game of last season while injured. So maybe there's not much to this. Frayed Knot Jan 26 2009 10:58 AM ="Centerfield":11erg5gp]Is a torn flexor tendon what knocked out Wagner? The article doesn't make it clear whether the Rangers are concerned because he had a torn flexor tendon, or whether they feel he still has a torn flexor tendon.[/quote:11erg5gp] Wagner's was a ligament tear. That's what TJ surgery is needed to fix. Sheets' flexor tendon tear did not have surgery - probably meaning it isn't thought to be severe enough and he can still pitch with it while it heals or remains strong enough on its own. Maybe it can but that's a risk whoever signs him is going to need to consider. Edgy DC Jan 26 2009 11:17 AM He may want to pull an Astacio and do some showcase pitching in the Caribbean. smg58 Feb 05 2009 11:56 AM [url:2ctckaya]http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090205&content_id=3801488&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp[/url:2ctckaya] The poor guy just can't buy a break. Nymr83 Feb 05 2009 12:47 PM sounds like a good time to sign him for cheap and hope he can help out in the second half or even for 2010 seawolf17 Feb 05 2009 01:36 PM ="Nymr83":3bzpskk2]sounds like a good time to sign him for cheap and hope he can help out in the second half or even for 2010[/quote:3bzpskk2] Bingo! Two-year, backloaded deal. Didn't the Yankees do that with Jon Lieber? Frayed Knot Feb 05 2009 02:38 PM Re: Leiber; yes, but I think it was post-surgery and not pre. Plus you don't want to do this at a time when it'll cost you a draft pick. So maybe after the cut-n-slice sounds like it worked and after the draft is done in June and you're off the hook for compensation it may be time to look into a rehab signing. Nymr83 Feb 05 2009 02:40 PM its strange that Sheets, if he knew he might need surgery, didn't accept arbitration from the Brewers. attgig Feb 05 2009 03:03 PM perhaps he had differing opinion vs the rangers doctors. him/his doctors didn't think he needed surgery, but the rangers docs did. and once ONE team's docs blackball you, it's gonna be impossible to get anything from any other team. Ashie62 Feb 05 2009 03:50 PM Sheets out 4-6 months for partially torn flexor tendon That answers that DocTee Feb 05 2009 04:20 PM Tough break. You know who I'd like to see the Mets take a flyer on: Mark Mulder. Centerfield Feb 06 2009 08:00 AM ="Ashie62":k5uv0414]Sheets out 4-6 months for partially torn flexor tendon That answers that[/quote:k5uv0414] That makes no sense. If that was the prognosis, why not have the surgery back in October? John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 06 2009 08:28 AM ="Centerfield":125azak8]="Ashie62":125azak8]Sheets out 4-6 months for partially torn flexor tendon That answers that[/quote:125azak8] That makes no sense. If that was the prognosis, why not have the surgery back in October?[/quote:125azak8] Apparently the injury was revealed as part of a physical examination the Rangers required as a condition of a 2-year contract offer, now revoked. There is a question as to whether the Brewers will pay the doctor bills, paper sez. Nymr83 Feb 06 2009 08:38 AM thats going to be a question for the collective bargaining agreement, his last contract, and/or worker's comp laws. this is probably a good opportunity for the brewers to sign him for 2 years backloaded for cheap, maybe with a semi-expensive option for 2011 that kicks in with 200 innings in 2010. they'll probably be paying for his rehab anyway so they might as well be able to direct it and benefit from it

Even if the glow of the corona ... oops, I mean inauguration has worn off by that point I don't think honoring him in a county that probably voted for him at an 80/20 clip is taking that big a risk.

Of course that doesn't mean the talks are picking up, only that news outlets are citing each other as sources. Meanwhile, Pedro seems to be talking to Pittsburgh.

Fast Eddie = Felson Crazy Eddie = Antar

]I prefer Lowe..he has been an innings eater with a low comp..Last 2 years with 147 K's each and 47 & 55 BB'ish. That ain't bad. Nice to see a pitcher that consistently throws strikes. If it's strike throwing you want Sheets is among the best bets around: a 380/95 (K/BB) ratio over the last 3 seasons. As far as a contract, it seems to me that certain players should look around at the current economic situation and think that a short-term deal might be in their interest too. Especially reasonably young guys (31 next July) like Sheets coming off injuries. Take a 2-yr deal (or maybe even one) to prove you're healthy and have the chance to go back on the market when conditions (at least theoretically) are more player friendly. At this point I'm not sure holding out for a 3rd or 4th year is really in his interest.

Leaving aside for a moment that I can't even imagine a set of circumstances that it would take to drive the Mets out of NYC -- I'd still follow baseball but probably not the Mets. Most likely there'd be a replacement team and I'd pick up on them. If not I guess I'd be a man without a team for a while, following baseball but without the nightly obligation to see a game. The one option that hasn't been discussed here is that you could pick up stakes and move to whatever city the Mets moved to and continue to follow them there. OK that's pretty stupid, but it is an option.

I hear 'Steady Eddie' and I still think Giacomin

="Nymr83":1dh7rkd1]The city should tell the Yankees (and the Mets if they are asking too) to go fuck themselves on any "additional funding" they are asking for. what exactly are the teams going to do if the city says no? abandon their billion dollar investments and play elsewhere? unlikely.[/quote:1dh7rkd1] That was part of the politician's argument during that radio slap-fight I heard the other day on Francesa's show. He argued that now that the Yanx (and presumably the Mets) signed long-term (30 yrs?) non-relocation agreements in exchange for the bond loans, it's no longer in the city's interest to pony up extra cash simply because they ask for it - and that even if one is inclined to believe that partial public financing is a good idea in the first place it doesn't make providing more simply so these buildings can have marble staircases leading to their 5-Star restaurants a good one too. IOW, even if we're not going to end this practice, can we at least cap it fer crissakes?!?!

="Benjamin Grimm":2v9kwf3v]Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year?[/quote:2v9kwf3v] I guess not enough of a chance in their minds to make carrying him all year worth it. They restructured his deal last week with a release in mind so I assume they're going to do similar thing to what we did with Bonilla (only on a much bigger scale): pay out the remainder over a long period to avoid getting hit with it all at once. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:34 AM The Philadelphia Inquirer is reporting today that the Phillies are aggressively trying to sign Moises Alou. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:36 AM Would Alou be a starter there or would he be in a limited role , who's in the outfield there along with Ibanez?...Dobbs?....Victorino? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:37 AM Watch him hit .500 and stay healthy all year. Bastard. Frayed Knot Jan 23 2009 08:44 AM He wouldn't start there - but he'd be a potentially good RH bat off the bench for a predominately lefty hitting squad. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:51 AM The three options (Perez, Wolf, and Sheets) may be soon reduced to two: ="MLB.com":2t16pb69]The deep freeze that's been the Major League free-agent market this winter has shown indications a thaw is coming -- at least for starting pitchers. On the heels of the Mets reaching an apparent agreement on a Minor League deal with right-hander Freddy Garcia, it looks like the Dodgers have taken the inside track in the competition for lefty starter Randy Wolf's services. According to sources for FoxSports.com, Wolf could most likely be signed to a one or two-year deal. Wolf previously pitched for Los Angeles in 2007 and was 12-12 with a 4.30 ERA in a combined 33 starts last season for the Padres and Astros. FoxSports.com said Wolf would get less than the three-year, $28 million offer the pitcher turned down from Houston earlier this winter. [/quote:2t16pb69] metsguyinmichigan Jan 23 2009 08:57 AM Supposedly, Sheets is meeting with the Rangers. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Wolf turned down an offer for that much? , and I was thinking he could be had for a song on a one year deal. sharpie Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Fine. I actually saw Wolf pitch twice last year, at the only game I attended at MFY Stadium and at the game I attended at Petco. Both time he got shellacked. smg58 Jan 23 2009 09:34 AM There are a number of available starters who can give you at least a league average ERA, several of whom have the upside to do significantly better. Randy Wolf is not one of them. I see no point in pursuing a demonstrably inferior pitcher just because he's a lefty. Edgy DC Jan 23 2009 09:59 AM I don't think anybody but Wally Matthews is arguing that his leftiness is important, and Wally is only throwing that pitch to drum up "Mets Gotta Steal Pettitte" angles. Who do you have your eye on? metirish Jan 23 2009 08:11 PM Just turned over to MLB Network after watching "What Not To Wear" and heard Tom Verducci say that Perez is moving closer to signing with the Mets. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:59 PM Here's the source: Jon "Boras Boy" Heyman ]Mets extend offer to Perez, their top target The Mets have placed an offer on the table for free-agent lefthander Oliver Perez, SI.com has learned, and are hopeful to have an answer in coming days regarding their prime pitching target. The Mets are believed to have improved their original thought, which was for about $30 million over three years. But it isn't certain what their latest offer is. Perez remains the Mets' top choice for the final spot in their rotation, though the team has remained in contact with three other free-agent pitchers -- Randy Wolf, Jon Garland and Ben Sheets. They know they'd have competition for Wolf (Dodgers), Garland (Diamondbacks) and Sheets (Rangers, possibly Yankees) but aren't sure what other teams are competing for Perez. The Mets had been hopeful to land free agent Derek Lowe earlier but were surprised when the rival Braves outbid them by $24 million, landing Lowe with a $60-million, four-year contract. Perez, 27, is eight years younger than Lowe, though not quite as consistent. Mets GM Omar Minaya would love to import Perez, so the Mets are not likely to take one of the other pitchers unless he feels his chances for Perez are gone. Nymr83 Jan 24 2009 12:14 PM I hope "the mystery team" comes and raises perez's price too high so we can sign Sheets. Then Boras and Perez can admit there was no mystery team and we get both at a reduced rate! MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM If money is the issue, I'd like to see the Mets sign Sheets and with any Ollie Perez money left over, go out and sign Odalis Perez. His ERA was only .10 worse than Ollie's last year, is still only 32 years old, and probably be signed for far less money than any of the other names that have been in the press lately. Later MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM Oops. Dupe Sorry Later seawolf17 Jan 30 2009 01:00 PM Varitek back to Boston for one year, $5 million. Frayed Knot Jan 30 2009 02:36 PM Varitek's (read: Boras's) threat to sit out the season and/or retire didn't get the Sox to budge I see. Tek is one of several who turned down arbitration offers this winter only to wind up not only with a much smaller deal than arb would have snagged him but didn't get the multi-year deal either. Now it's hope you play well and the economy improves when you can do the same dance next year. Ashie62 Feb 02 2009 03:56 PM Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise? Fman99 Feb 02 2009 07:27 PM ="Ashie62":2t5ssjz6]Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise?[/quote:2t5ssjz6] .220 metirish Feb 02 2009 07:43 PM Is that his weight or his average? , sucks either way though. metirish Feb 04 2009 11:35 AM ]Left-hander Chase Wright was traded by the New York Yankees to the Milwaukee Brewers on Wednesday for outfielder-catcher Eric Fryer. metirish Feb 07 2009 02:23 PM Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's. Rockin' Doc Feb 07 2009 05:10 PM metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones. MFS62 Feb 08 2009 07:35 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2e2xwbch]metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones.[/quote:2e2xwbch] B'sides, they couldn't have the signing photo op soon anyhow. They'd first have to send out Cecil Fielder's uni to have the seams let out to fit Jones. Later Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 08:45 PM Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do. Fman99 Feb 09 2009 06:44 AM ="Frayed Knot":1zv55w66]Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do.[/quote:1zv55w66] Yeah, poor guy. My heart breaks for him. /sarcasm Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 07:07 AM It's not like he doesn't get to keep the 15 miills. Vic Sage Feb 09 2009 09:08 AM yeah, i mean basically he just got a raise! Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:26 AM Sure, it just shows a helluva difference between what someone thought he was worth last year vs what they think he's worth barely a year later. How the mighty (and fat) have fallen.

Dodgers reportedly to release Andruw before today is out

And if you start in September and only count until pitchers & catchers report, or until the WBC well then, hell, it's practically Spring now. Who cares if it's 10 degrees out - get that mitt oiled up.

Francesa had both Levine and some city pol (forget his name) on his show the other day (separately but consecutively) for a real name-calling food-fight. Was semi-entertaining and, although I'd be lying if I said I understood all the issues here, neither came across real well. Highlights: Levine: - The Yanx are paying for everything and only borrowing money via the same process most large building projects use - team will assume all maintenance costs (in lieu of rent) so the city actually saves money compared to previous arrangements (although I seem to remember the Yanx skipping out on previous rent payments citing high maintenance costs) City Pol: - While the teams are paying the bonds back they're doing so under the 'PILOT' (Payment In Lieu Of Taxes) program. Ergo since they aren't paying taxes on a very valuable piece of real estate and money making building the city taxpayers are, in effect, the ones paying back the bond investors. - and then, even if one thinks that arrangement is legit use of the bonds, why continue it with these new money requests which are being used not for the building itself but for the luxury add-ons such as the restaurants and the marble finishes etc.

Good time for an article - cuz I think today is the halfway mark of the abyss. WS ended on Oct 28, so that means we've made it through: - the final 3 days of October - 30 days hath November - 31 more in December - and 14 more in January 3 + 30 + 31 + 15 = 79 and we still have: - 16 more in Jan - 28 in Feb - 31 in March - and the first 4 days of April until Opening Day (always capitalize that phrase children) 16 + 28 + 31 + 4 = 79

Yup. Had previously been with the D-Rays and loved Zambrano from back then.

Thanks. I knew I had found it before but couldn't when I tried to the other day, something that was magnified by the fact that I was thinking the whole Theo quitting soap opera was at the end of 2004, not 2005.

="Ashie62":2o5zqj4i]So lets so..the best we can do is Alex Cora & Tim Redding.[/quote:2o5zqj4i] Well, I think Rodriguez and Putz are a bit better than Cora & Redding. Also, from what I understand, the off-season still has some time to go. duan Jan 15 2009 04:11 AM the key with the mets to be sure that we get more value out of the non-core players. Last year the mets didn't have a nearly Major League Average innings sponge for the 5th starter slot. Redding should give them that, but if something better comes along the 2-3 million spent on Redding will be used as longman/spot starter. Last season we had 4 people the we'd pulled in on minor league deals start 13 games, showing the problems we had finding satisfactory depth in the rotation. This year if we sign one of Perez/Wolf/Sheets we now have Redding & Niese to be the 5th slot and provide some injury cover. If Niese takes some lumps that's ok cause it can contribute to development a la Pelfrey. The money is fine as is the one year part of the equation. duan Jan 15 2009 04:15 AM sorry also I should reference that Cora fulfils the same function. We spent way too much time with Argenis Reyes being our good fielding reserve. Cora's your man that allows you to PH for Castillo with someone else when you need a sac-fly in the 8th inning. I'm not saying we'd be thrilled if Reyes' hammy pops and Cora's the replacement but having one defensive middle IF is ok because it allows you to fill the other bench slots with guys who's got different skill sets allow platoon matchups. duan Jan 15 2009 06:33 AM does anyone think That Moises might be up for coming back in a kick ass pinch hitting odd start, DH in interleague play role. he'd be totaly savage. Edgy DC Jan 15 2009 07:11 AM ="Ashie62":ojzs9ftv]So lets so..the best we can do is Alex Cora & Tim Redding. Fine additions to Citi/Morgan Stanley/Smith Barney/Madoff/Taxpayer Field I'm beginning to think Wilpon lost it all in real estate CDO's[/quote:ojzs9ftv] That's twice now you elected to overlook Francisco Rodriguez and J.J. Putz, cleon/grote whatever. Benjamin Grimm Jan 22 2009 03:48 PM Cora's signing is now official. attgig Jan 22 2009 04:17 PM sad when i'm looking for mets news, this and freddie deciding between the mets and yanks are the biggest things out there... MFS62 Jan 22 2009 04:34 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":1dsbg77z]Cora's signing is now official.[/quote:1dsbg77z] Be still my heart. Later

Willets Point wrote: Theo's family history led to this classic post by Frayed Knot. This link no longer works -- does that mean that thread no longer exists or is it just hiding some place under a different address? I wanted to see if I could find the that original post but it's either gone or stupid me can't find it.

="Rockin' Doc":1brfj8rx]I agree that the patch is pretty ugly and a far better design could and should be designed, but I agree with DocTee's sentiment that it's not that big a deal in the overall scheme of things. I'm far more concerned wirth the quality of the collective players that will be wearing the uniform than I am the logo on the sleeve.[/quote:1brfj8rx] It's not just that the design is ugly (or plain, or unimaginative, or whatever adjective you want to throw in there) it's that the design is ugly because it's essentially advertising and they're not wearing it to celebrate the opening of the stadium as much as they're wearing it because they struck a deal with the (broke) company that's paid for the naming rights for the damn thing. soupcan Jan 15 2009 08:30 AM The 'controversy' hits the mainstream media... ] January 15, 2009 Mets� Latest Off-Season Problem? A Dull Patch By TYLER KEPNER The Mets unveiled their primary logo on Nov. 16, 1961, and it has gone virtually unchanged. With the team�s name scripted across a city skyline and above a bridge on an orange-laced baseball, the trademark is timeless. The Mets� most recent design has not been as warmly embraced. The uniform patch that commemorates the opening of Citi Field has caused a stir on the Internet, with ESPN.com calling it �the worst sleeve patch in M.L.B. history.� Dave Howard, the Mets� executive vice president for business operations, said the Mets signed off on the design presented to them by Citigroup, which is paying the team $400 million over the next 20 years for naming rights to the stadium. �Everyone has their own point of view,� Howard said. �Taste is very subjective, and we understand that and appreciate the passion of Mets fans.� The sleeve patch is a variation of the official Citi Field logo introduced last year, with the words Inaugural Season in white letters on a blue square. Below is an orange square that says 2009, also in white. In recent seasons, the Astros, the Phillies, the Cardinals and the Nationals have all used distinctive ballpark elements in their commemorative patches; the Astros showed their roof in silhouette, the Cardinals their arched entryway. The Yankees� 2009 patch prominently features the rooftop facade of the new Yankee Stadium. The Mets� patch seems to take minimalism to the extreme. Baseball forbids teams putting corporate names on uniforms, but Citigroup wanted the patch to evoke the company�s general branding. The Mets did not object. Citigroup itself is in financial distress and is planning to dismantle part of its corporate empire. But the patch remains the patch, for better or worse. �It is compatible and consistent with Citigroup�s overall branding and graphic design elements,� Howard said. �That�s the connection. The Citi logo is a fairly simple logo. It�s �citi� in lowercase, with a red arc. So they have more of a minimalist style to their brand and their logo. Obviously, as our partner for Citi Field, we�re going to give substantial deference to their design and graphic treatment.� The official Citi Field logo has been widely panned as drab and too evocative of the Domino�s Pizza logo. But fans will have to get used to it, because it will be affixed to the side of every other seating row at the ballpark and used extensively in marketing and promotions, assuming the Citi name survives. Howard said the Mets were flattered that Citigroup designed a logo that incorporated the team�s blue and orange colors. That is not always the case; the logo for Petco Park in San Diego has the corporate name in red, even though the Padres do not wear that color. Then again, that logo also includes a Padres insignia and two palm trees, while the Citi Field trademark looks painfully plain. The Mets do have an alternate inaugural season logo that features the windows of the distinctive rotunda at Citi Field. But Howard said that logo would be available only on merchandise sold at the ballpark. He added that the team would not change the sleeve patch, which will be used for all home games. The Yankees� 2009 uniform patch, left, depicts the facade of the team�s new stadium. The Mets� uni- form patch for the season displays ... words. metirish Jan 15 2009 08:36 AM It actually looks somewhat better in cloth form. Farmer Ted Jan 15 2009 08:47 AM Fire Dave Howard NOW!! Edgy DC Jan 15 2009 08:52 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 15 2009 09:03 AM What's amazing is that they got the Mets to admit two basic truths that --- though as big and glaring as Dave Kingman's feet --- I fully expected them to talk around: ]Dave Howard, the Mets� executive vice president for business operations, said the Mets signed off on the design presented to them by Citigroup, which is paying the team $400 million over the next 20 years for naming rights to the stadium. ]The Mets� patch seems to take minimalism to the extreme. Baseball forbids teams putting corporate names on uniforms, but Citigroup wanted the patch to evoke the company�s general branding. Where Howard is lost is this: ]�Everyone has their own point of view,� Howard said. �Taste is very subjective, and we understand that and appreciate the passion of Mets fans.� No, actually, this time, everyone seems to have the same point of view. The funny thing is that Wilpon put his heart into evoking the aesthetic he wanted, but took the queen's shilling and is now letting her wreck his whole palace. OE: Maybe MLB will step in and end this nonsense. metirish Jan 15 2009 08:57 AM I hadn't thought about it like that , very lame from the Mets. Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2009 08:59 AM ]"we understand that and appreciate the passion of Mets fans.� Or, it's good that everyone hates this patch! It shows that they care! Centerfield Jan 15 2009 09:27 AM That MFY Patch is really nice. Dear Dave Howard: My ass is still available if you want to do some last minute revisions. Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2009 09:31 AM I hope, for their sakes, that they're not printing up too many t-shirts and mugs with that logo on it. It's the New Coke of baseball logos. metsmarathon Jan 15 2009 09:32 AM y'know, they could've at least had the lettering be in lowercase. that way, not only would it be more in line with the citi logo, but it would also appeal to my narrow sensibilities. Fman99 Jan 15 2009 09:42 AM ] Dave Howard, the Mets� executive vice president for business operations, said the Mets signed off on the design presented to them by Citigroup, which is paying the team $400 million over the next 20 years for naming rights to the stadium. �Everyone has their own point of view,� Howard said. �Taste is very subjective, and we understand that and appreciate the passion of Mets fans.� What an ass. They can't even admit that it's a shitty patch. This is like standing pat with a half a lineup full of duds and washed up vets. Oh wait. G-Fafif Jan 15 2009 10:14 AM ]Obviously, as our partner for Citi Field, we�re going to give substantial deference to their design and graphic treatment. Good god, do they ever fucking learn? You tell The Paper Of Record that you're deferring to a discredited corporate fat cat on an issue of what goes on your very own uniforms? Jesus fucking crackers, I swear with this organization. Oh, and this: ]Howard said the Mets were flattered that Citigroup designed a logo that incorporated the team�s blue and orange colors. Gee, that was mighty blue and orange of them! WHY SHOULDN'T THEY? There'd be no Citi FUCKING Field without a team to play in it. Good god, Mets. Pull up your pants and stand up straight for once. Edgy DC Jan 15 2009 10:25 AM See, maybe my standards have fallen, but I'm just happy he didn't say, "I am standing, and those, um, aren't my pants." attgig Jan 15 2009 11:42 AM lol that dugout chat was hilarious. Zvon Jan 15 2009 09:55 PM Stephen Colbert took a shot at the patch tonight on his show. I'll link the segment when/if its on the shows site. Should be up sometime tomorrow. http://www.colbertnation.com/home Gwreck Jan 16 2009 12:07 AM ="metirish":2301kyuo]It actually looks somewhat better in cloth form.[/quote:2301kyuo] It's more the angle -- it's not at that ridiculous angle in that picture. themetfairy Jan 16 2009 06:31 AM ="Zvon":1sa3qaqn]Stephen Colbert took a shot at the patch tonight on his show. [/quote:1sa3qaqn] .cc_box a:hover .cc_home{background:url('http://www.comedycentral.com/comedycentral/video/assets/syndicated-logo-over.png') !important;}.cc_links a{color:#b9b9b9;text-decoration:none;}.cc_show a{color:#707070;text-decoration:none;}.cc_title a{color:#868686;text-decoration:none;}.cc_links a:hover{color:#67bee2;text-decoration:underline;}The Colbert ReportMon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30cTip/Wag - Monkey on the LamColbert at Christmas Colbert Christmas DVDGreen Screen Bill O'Reilly Interview Zvon Jan 16 2009 09:33 PM Thanks for posting that TMF. I really got a kick out of that bit. themetfairy Jan 17 2009 05:22 AM You're very welcome Zvon Farmer Ted Jan 27 2009 05:10 PM Still stuck with this horseshit logo. Embarrassed that the Mets haven't taken another look at this hunk of junk. metsguyinmichigan Jan 27 2009 09:02 PM Not gonna happen. They're already selling patches and jerseys. themetfairy Jan 27 2009 09:05 PM But is anyone buying it? DocTee Jan 27 2009 09:16 PM As Paul Lukas explains today, the Mets might be off the sartorial hook thanks to Texas awful new batting helmet: [url:3aj1ya7j]http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/090126&sportCat=mlb[/url:3aj1ya7j] Edgy DC Jan 28 2009 06:55 AM That's only 15% worse than the Mets two-toner. metsmarathon Jan 28 2009 08:09 AM well, the voting right now has the 1999 future uni's leading the way at 41.3%, with citifield patch holding onto second with 13% of the vote. the devil rays' inaugural duds are currently tied with the rangers' ugly hats for third, at 12.7%. the ugliness of the devil rays' uniforms is the only one of the four that the mets did not directly have a hand in. yay mets.

]Rather than taking away voters' rights, I'd like to expand who gets to vote. They recently did expand things a little. Several of the BP writers now have votes in an attempt to start admitting some "non-traditional" writers. Personally, I prefer public humiliation of bad voters over kicking them out.

="Benjamin Grimm":2icmpe3y]He is. What kind of players are the Padres looking for in return? I don't remember who was involved in the failed deal with the Braves and the Cubs, other than DeRosa.[/quote:2icmpe3y] The Braves deal fell apart when Atlanta wouldn't include their top pitching prospect (one being described as one of the best in the minors at this point). So it would stand to reason that snagging Peavy would mean [u:2icmpe3y]several[/u:2icmpe3y] of the Met top prospects - and even that may not be enough seeing as how most of those are kinda far from being major league ready. Then there's also the no-trade provision that the Alabama-born Jake P-V has threatened to wield against a trade sending him anywhere near the north east. Centerfield Jan 14 2009 09:06 AM I'm guessing PV means Jonathan Niese, Daniel Murphy and Fartinez. Edgy DC Jan 14 2009 09:13 AM The Braves were very close with Yunel Escobar and Gorkys Hernandez and either Jo-Jo Reyes or Charlie Morton. The deal fell apart over, dependeing on your report, the Padres wanting Jeff Locke, or the Braves refusing to give Peavy a no-trade. Anybody want to put together an equivelant Met package, feel free. I'm guessing the Mets would be more willing to cave on the no-trade clause. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 14 2009 09:17 AM I don't want no Peavy, so no deal will come from me. Frayed Knot Jan 20 2009 11:51 AM So if Ollie signs elsewhere what kind of pick do we get? Well, it depends on who signs him. * If one of the following teams sign him it'll be a 1st rounder, somewhere between #17 and #33 Dodgers - certainly a prime candidate Marlins - doubt it Cardinals - decent chance unless LaRussa/Duncan think he's unworkable Blue Jays - they're pretty strong on pitching Astros - always tough to read whether they're in a signing or saving mood Twins - probably not White Sox - certainly possible Brewers - they have both several pitching holes to fill and extra picks (via CC & Sheets) to cushion the blow Red Sox - normally yes, but I think they're pretty much set on the mound right now Rays - highly doubtful Cubs - maybe, although already re-inked Dempster * Could be 1st, could be 2nd: Phillies - if Ollie ranks ahead of Raul Ibanez on the Elias formula than we'd snag the Phils' first pick instead of the Mariners. Other way around if not. Angels - same deal as above only with Ollie compared to Brian Fuentes * Any other team signing him would mean being awarded a supplemental pick plus that team's 2nd rounder smg58 Jan 20 2009 12:17 PM ="Frayed Knot":upi1nci7]* Any other team signing him would mean being awarded a supplemental pick plus that team's 2nd rounder[/quote:upi1nci7] Why? Centerfield Jan 20 2009 12:17 PM First 15 picks are protected. smg58 Jan 20 2009 01:21 PM You learn something every day. That's still likely to be two better picks than the one they'd lose if they sign Sheets instead. Frayed Knot Jan 21 2009 07:00 AM ="Centerfield":1qchhe2v]First 15 picks are protected.[/quote:1qchhe2v] Plus there's the Yanqui pick which has already been given away (they've ceded their first 3 actually) just like the Philly & Angel picks have. Only difference there is that I'm sure Ollie doesn't rank ahead of Teixeira & Sabathia. There are also, in addition to Sheets & Perez, 5 other Type-A FAs still on the market who could eat up 1st round picks if/when signed: Juan Cruz, Orlando Hudson, Jason Varitek, Orlando Cabrera, Manny Ramirez

Castillo (assuming he's healthy) hits better. What Cora gives us is that he can play SS if necessary - but if you're going to get a Castillo complement it would be better to get one who's not merely Castillo-lite.