Frayed Knot

Met fans are manic whether they're asking for clarification or not.

Carroll upddates -- after no doubt getting a boatload of mail from panicked Met fans: Let's clarify yesterday's report about Beltran. Over on Twitter, the manic Mets fans took exception to the suggestion that he was likely headed for microfracture surgery, and that it would signify what I called a "last hurrah." First, most cited a late-June visit to Dr. Richard Steadman�the inventor of the surgery and one of the top orthopedic surgeons in the world�where Steadman was quoted as saying that Beltran didn't need microfracture surgery. I say read it more closely: what Steadman said was that Beltran didn't need it now, and wouldn't as long as the bruising healed up well. It didn't, he'll play anyway, and that's what changed. Sure, a top doc said that, but as with virtually everything in the injury world, things change not just from month to month, but sometimes minute to minute. It seems many interpreted "last hurrah" as "end of career," where instead I meant it more in the sense of the Spencer Tracy classic in that things aren't what they used to be. Most also pointed to a successful microfracture surgery like the one performed on Brian Giles; he came back in about seven months, and played reasonably well with no real problems since. Giles did have something of a 2008 resurgence, especially in his fielding numbers (both Clay Davenport's and UZR), going from godawful to about average in right field, and rebounding at the plate. I'm not sure if that means it relieved his discomfort but just didn't last, or that age caught up to him. In fact, despite the similar procedure, I just don't see enough similarities between Giles and Beltran to feel comfortable saying they'll have similar recoveries. We'll see if he has it and we'll see how he does if he does, but first, we'll see if he can help the Mets. It's still scary, but he's still guessing.

="Edgy DC":yh9lywsb]They'll survive the season. It's a raw team but no rawer than what the Mets have sent out the last two months. PosGuyBAOBPSLGOPScRyan Doumit.255.324.398.7221bSteve Pearce.184.279.289.5682bDelwyn Young.316.381.427.8083bAndy LaRoche.256.330.372.702ssRonny Cedeno.167.213.290.503lfBrandon Moss.250.310.385.695cfAndrew McCutcheon.275.332.430.762rfGarret Jones.323.375.7291.104[/quote:yh9lywsb] Of course the best of those raw guys are McCutcheon and Jones who were coming anyway. My objection isn't that they're going about it the wrong way but that they seem intent on trading everyone whether they get a good return or not. A lot of Can-Miss guys in that haul. Farmer Ted Jul 31 2009 11:46 AM Minny lands Orlando Cabrera from the A's. I never understood the Orlando attraction. metirish Jul 31 2009 11:49 AM Claudio Vargas back to the Brewers from LA for a minor league catcher.....Vinny Rottino MFS62 Jul 31 2009 11:51 AM ="Farmer Ted":1md20mfn]Minny lands Orlando Cabrera from the A's. I never understood the Orlando attraction.[/quote:1md20mfn] What was confusing about EPCOT? The trade was for a kid shortstop named Ladendorf (sp?). No link yet. Later Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:25 PM Joe Beimel traded to Rockies. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:27 PM Victor Martinez to Boston, Adam LaRoche to the Braves in two seperate but related deals. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:28 PM Jerry Hairston jr. to the Evil Empire Fman99 Jul 31 2009 01:29 PM Aw we're just sitting on our dongs doing nothing! C'mon, Omar. When you're done offending white people get on the stick, get us another arm/bat. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 01:30 PM No news = good news. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:30 PM What did I miss? when was Omar "offending white people"? Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:30 PM Okay - Boston still has an overload of corner infielders. Now they have Youkilis, Mike Lowell, V-Mart, and Casey Kotchman. One of them can be had. Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:32 PM Heath Bell may be headed to the Dodgers. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 31 2009 01:34 PM Apparently a deal that would send Bell to the Marlins fell though. Another deal discussing Bell & Adrian Gonzo to the Dodgers for Loney + Fman99 Jul 31 2009 01:39 PM ="Nymr83":mq4iuo9l]What did I miss? when was Omar "offending white people"?[/quote:mq4iuo9l] Just Rubin. Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:39 PM Rolen to the Reds. metirish Jul 31 2009 01:40 PM SI_JonHeyman: rolen has been traded to the reds. he just has to waive his no trade clause. indy boy cant turn down cincy, can he? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 31 2009 01:40 PM Scott Rolen to the Reds. "Mets aren;t doing anything" Heyman adds bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 01:42 PM ="Edgy DC":f3ne8dnq]No news = good news.[/quote:f3ne8dnq] Why? Are the Mets are such a powerhouse that they can't be improved or a trade would be a mistake, a la Zambrano/Kazmir, given their place in the standings, or you don't trust Omar to make a deal that's good for the Mets. Omar should do something to show the team that management believes they can still make the playoffs. It maybe symbolic but it's a vote of confidence. metirish Jul 31 2009 01:45 PM ="bmfc1":12wu0gbu]="Edgy DC":12wu0gbu]No news = good news.[/quote:12wu0gbu] Why? Are the Mets are such a powerhouse that they can't be improved or a trade would be a mistake, a la Zambrano/Kazmir, given their place in the standings, or you don't trust Omar to make a deal that's good for the Mets. Omar should do something to show the team that management believes they can still make the playoffs. It maybe symbolic but it's a vote of confidence.[/quote:12wu0gbu] I'd like some action too but this team is more than one impact player away ,don't you think? Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:46 PM The Reds have reportedly traded for Scott Roleb, subject to Rolen's approval(NT Clause) Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:48 PM Sean Smith to the Jays. Fman99 Jul 31 2009 01:49 PM Nationals deal Joe Biemel to Colorado for two minor leaguers. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 01:49 PM ="bmfc1"]="Edgy DC"]No news = good news. Why? Are the Mets are such a powerhouse that they can't be improved or a trade would be a mistake, a la Zambrano/Kazmir, given their place in the standings, or you don't trust Omar to make a deal that's good for the Mets. Omar should do something to show the team that management believes they can still make the playoffs. It maybe symbolic but it's a vote of confidence. I think many trades can do more harm than good. I don't think that trading at the deadline shows belief that a team can make the playoffs. I think it shows belief that it can't without mystical craftiness. And mystical craftiness too often turns out to be hokum. Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:50 PM Hairston deal apparently sends the vaunted Austin Jackson to Cincy. bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 01:50 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2009 01:51 PM ="metirish":3c3fy6qu]I'd like some action too but this team is more than one impact player away ,don't you think?[/quote:3c3fy6qu] Unless the one player is Babe Ruth, yes I agree but I'd be happy with something minor, such as Aubrey Huff. The Mets were supposed to be after a lefty RP but Joe Beimel went to Colorado for 2 minor leaguers. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 01:50 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2009 01:51 PM I'm hoping that the Mets acquire Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado, John Maine, Jose Reyes and Billy Wagner and give up nothing. Not too many teams have a chance to do that. metirish Jul 31 2009 01:51 PM MFY's apparently sent Austin Jackson to Cincy in that deal , is he a highly touted prospect? bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 01:52 PM lenno212 No #Mets lineup yet. Hmm. Last time this happened, Church was sent to Atlanta. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:52 PM ="metirish":1kmxpyuu]MFY's apparently sent Austin Jackson to Cincy in that deal , is he a highly touted prospect?[/quote:1kmxpyuu] yes. kinda suprised hairston was worth that much. metirish Jul 31 2009 01:53 PM the buzz around Citi Field continues to suggest the Mets will not be making any major deals today� �in fact, as reporters file in to the ballpark, they�ll encounter team officials, media reps, etc., and if something was going down we�d probably have known about it by now� �in the end, i believe the Mets had options, but they chose to hang on to their top prospects, knowing a) players will be available on the waiver wire, and getting Jose Reyes, Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran and Billy Wagner is better than any one trade they could have possibly made� metsblog metirish Jul 31 2009 01:55 PM ="Nymr83":2llmme19]="metirish":2llmme19]MFY's apparently sent Austin Jackson to Cincy in that deal , is he a highly touted prospect?[/quote:2llmme19] yes. kinda suprised hairston was worth that much.[/quote:2llmme19] not true now apparently.......I was wary of this becasue this guy gets mentioned in every big deal that's talked about for them.....close to untouchable bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 02:03 PM Edgy's happy but I'm not. Omar confirms my opinion that he is an awful in-season GM. He can wine, dine, schmooze, and attract big name FAs but for the second year in a row, he failed to make a deadline deal to help the team. metirish Jul 31 2009 02:04 PM ck Johnson to the Marlins per fox sports Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:08 PM ="bmfc1"]Edgy's happy but I'm not. Omar confirms my opinion that he is an awful in-season GM. He can wine, dine, schmooze, and attract big name FAs but for the second year in a row, he failed to make a deadline deal to help the team. Awful GMs make deals that hurt teams. "You've gotta know when to hold." --- K. Rogers Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:09 PM Johnson to the Marlins for AA-lefty Aaron Thompson. never heard of him. bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 02:10 PM Does that mean that Omar is an awful GM? Good GMs get creative to help their teams. Omar certainly isn't a good GM. Is someone going to start an IGT with a clever name. The lineup is in. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:13 PM ="bmfc1"]Does that mean that Omar is an awful GM? Does what mean that? ]Good GMs get creative to help their teams. Trades aren't the only way to help a team. Often, perhaps half the time or more, not trading has helped a team more. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:13 PM ="Nymr83":28x0vm8e]Johnson to the Marlins for AA-lefty Aaron Thompson. never heard of him.[/quote:28x0vm8e] and the Nats are paying the salary. wow, are the marlins the cheapest franchise on earth or what? metirish Jul 31 2009 02:14 PM I'd rather do nothing than trade for a Huff or Scott Downs for the bullpen...... Valadius Jul 31 2009 02:14 PM I started the IGT already. bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 02:14 PM Do you think that Omar is incapable of making a good trade so any trade would be bad? Frayed Knot Jul 31 2009 02:15 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2009 02:18 PM ="Valadius":nlpyoup8]Hairston deal apparently sends the vaunted Austin Jackson to Cincy.[/quote:nlpyoup8] Wow! Not a sure-fire future star but is potentially one and he's a guy they spent a decent signing bonus on in order to wrest him away from a hoops scholarship (Arizona I think) --- sounds like a lot to spend for essentially a good utility man. Essentially this is the price paid for Brent Gardener breaking his hand (finger?) last week. Ceetar Jul 31 2009 02:16 PM metsblog mentioned it earlier, and I noticed it last night, but apparently the Yankees are having money concerns? Supposedly they balked at the idea of paying Bannister's 650k salary. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:16 PM ="bmfc1":1ihptp6l]Do you think that Omar is incapable of making a good trade so any trade would be bad?[/quote:1ihptp6l] No. I don't think he or anybody is incapable of making a good trade. I'm still trying to figure out the last question. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:17 PM Scott Rolen has reportedly waived his no trade clause and escaped hockey loving Canada to play baseball in Cincinatti. metirish Jul 31 2009 02:18 PM ="Frayed Knot":11hlah5p]="Valadius":11hlah5p]Hairston deal apparently sends the vaunted Austin Jackson to Cincy.[/quote:11hlah5p] Wow![/quote:11hlah5p] That was posted and then I posted it here but apparently it's not true. bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 02:19 PM And I'm trying to figure out why the GM of a team under .500 with hopes of making the playoffs couldn't make a trade. Edgy--I'm not going to continue this but congrats to you that nothing was done. If they make the playoffs, I'll eat crow and buy you a drink. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:24 PM ="bmfc1":pmjfgign]And I'm trying to figure out why the GM of a team under .500 with hopes of making the playoffs couldn't make a trade. Edgy--I'm not going to continue this but congrats to you that nothing was done. If they make the playoffs, I'll eat crow and buy you a drink.[/quote:pmjfgign] even if they don't make the playoffs they've done fine not making a trade unless they miss the playoffs by a number of games that the potentially traded-for player would have won them. trading for Nick Johnson and missing the playoffs by 2 games instead of missing it by 4 without him only hurts the team's farm system. I look at net games back and i don't see a team that should trade even a small part of the future for help in 2009. if the guy you were acquiring would still be under contract for 2010 thats another issue, but this shouldnt be treated as a 'win now' team Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:26 PM Heyman is reporting that Peavy has been dealt to the White Sox again, no word on if he has agreed to it this time. Frayed Knot Jul 31 2009 02:27 PM I propose we trade Sullivan and/or Reed, plus Berroa and Cancel for Reyes, Beltran & Delgado sometime in the next few weeks. That'll improve the team. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:28 PM ="bmfc1":488nciud]And I'm trying to figure out why the GM of a team under .500 with hopes of making the playoffs couldn't make a trade.[/quote:488nciud] Because, in theory, the only available trades may have hurt them in the long term more than helped them in the short term. Or hurt them flat out. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 31 2009 02:33 PM Jake PV to the White Sox: This time it's for real. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:33 PM Fo nucking way! metirish Jul 31 2009 02:34 PM Big guns that didn't go Halladay and Gonzalez duan Jul 31 2009 02:37 PM as everyone else has rightly pointed out, the pieces that this team needs are the ones that are on the DL, if heaven forbid, we're back IN a race over the next two weeks, there's plenty of time then to get an Aubrey Huff type power bat who'll float through waivers cause of salary. I don't see anyone out there who got traded that I think would have helped a healthy mets team bar Victor Martinez, Jake Peavy & Cliff Lee.I don't think we were really in the race to get them and they all have plenty of limitations. Frayed Knot Jul 31 2009 03:05 PM ="metirish"]="Frayed Knot"]="Valadius"]Hairston deal apparently sends the vaunted Austin Jackson to Cincy. Wow! That was posted and then I posted it here but apparently it's not true. Well then never mind my above rant. The truth apparently: The Reds received minor league catcher Chase Weems in the deal. The 20-year-old Weems was batting .260 with a homer and 14 RBIs in 55 games with Class-A Charleston this season. He was picked in the sixth round of the 2007 draft. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 31 2009 03:11 PM ="Edgy DC"]="bmfc1"]Edgy's happy but I'm not. Omar confirms my opinion that he is an awful in-season GM. He can wine, dine, schmooze, and attract big name FAs but for the second year in a row, he failed to make a deadline deal to help the team. Awful GMs make deals that hurt teams. "You've gotta know when to hold." --- K. Rogers Hear, hear. I'm in Edge's corner on this. They moved the Peavy? Those crazy bastards! (A LOT of good young arms on the Pods now.) Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 03:22 PM Peavy was a good young arm, and under contract a few more years, I don't know who they got yet but its hard to believe its worth it for a guy you're not about to lose. Farmer Ted Jul 31 2009 03:55 PM Which of the three...Washburn, Peavy, or Halladay...will be with the Mets next year? MFS62 Jul 31 2009 04:13 PM Omar's like the ugly girl - all alone by the telephone - waiting for a call inviting her to the dance. Later smg58 Jul 31 2009 05:01 PM Minaya could very easily have been told not to take on more payroll for this season, so I wouldn't point the finger too quickly. I actually think the fact that Halladay is still a Jay is a good thing -- assuming you can wait until the offseason to obtain him. Peavy is guaranteed $52M over the next 3 seasons and is now an established injury risk who'll fail to reach 175 IP for the second straight year. I'm perfectly OK with passing on him. I wouldn't have minded V-Mart, though. metirish Jul 31 2009 05:51 PM I just don't get the Minaya bashing today , if he had traded for Francouer today would the people who are unhappy be happy with that? I read in one of the rags the other day.....Madden I think it was proclaiming that Minaya NEEDED to get Halladay to change the subject around the team. Could you blame the guy if he did that , make a splash trade for the sake of it? , I'd love to have a Halladay or a Peavey but would have preferred V Martinez. At what cost though would they have come for? I'm not upset that we didn't get middle of the road players and never expected top tier players so i am not disappointed. MFS62 Jul 31 2009 06:14 PM Not bashing. Just saying. Add me to the group who didn't want to see a deal that drained the farm of key prospects. As Edgy said, no news = good news. Later seawolf17 Jul 31 2009 06:19 PM I actually would have liked to see them move some guys, like Livan or Schneider, even if just for middling prospects. But I'm okay with inaction too. Let's get healthy, fellas! Nymr83 Aug 01 2009 12:53 AM ESPN had the Pirates deals put together for convenience ]IN: RHP Nathan Adcock, RHP Tim Alderson, RHP Jose Ascanio, SS Ronny Cedeno, 1B Jeff Clement, SS Argenis Diaz, RHP Joel Hanrahan, RHP Kevin Hart, OF Gorkys Hernandez, RHP Jeff Locke, RHP Brett Lorin, OF Lastings Milledge, RHP Charlie Morton, RHP Aaron Pribanic, RHP Hunter Strickland OUT: RHP Sean Burnett, LHP Tom Gorzelanny, LHP John Grabow, OF Eric Hinske, 1B Adam LaRoche, OF Nate McLouth, OF Nyjer Morgan, INF Freddy Sanchez, RHP Ian Snell, SS Jack Wilson dgwphotography Aug 01 2009 05:17 AM Personally, I'm glad Omar didn't make any deals. This team is too many players away from contending right now, and I just didn't want him to do any more damage.... As FK said, trading Sullivan, Reed, plus Berroa and Cancel for Reyes, Beltran & Delgado sometime in the next few weeks would be the best trade possible... metirish Aug 01 2009 07:52 AM Minaya ] �As a general manager, I�ve been six games out before, and it�s kind of hard to go out and make a trade,� Minaya said. �And you guys know our situation. The situation is not one player. Our situation is a couple players.� In the clubhouse, no one seemed concerned that he might be traded � or, for that matter, that anyone else would be. Only a few players lounged on couches watching updates on the MLB Network, as many more bolted outside to fly a remote-controlled helicopter Wright ] �I don�t think the reason for our record being what it is is that we needed one more piece,� David Wright said. �It�s that we played poorly at times and we�re pretty banged up. We�re not one piece away that�s going to put us over the top at the trade deadline. It�s not like we�re not going to get more than that when we get these guys healthy.� Rockin' Doc Aug 01 2009 09:04 AM No one player was going to suddenly put this team over the top. Injuries have been the story of this season. All teams get hit with injuries and must work to overcome them, the Mets have unfortunately been with a rash of long term injuries to a multitiude of their key players. I'm more disappointed at the lost opportunity to see how good this team could have been this season had they not been decimated with injuries, than I am over the absence of any desperate trades in hopes of miraculously putting this team into contention. Vince Coleman Firecracker Aug 01 2009 10:41 AM I'm with Seawolf. Would have liked to see Omar sell off a few players. Valadius Aug 01 2009 11:25 AM I would have liked to see another lefty for the bullpen, at least. Edgy DC Aug 01 2009 11:51 AM We have Misch, and we're getting Wagner, and I'm uncertain anybody else will have made a difference worth giving somebody up for, except that maybe Manuel may trust an import more than he does Misch. Valadius Aug 01 2009 12:33 PM Honestly, I don't think Misch knows how to get Jerry to trust him enough to get him in a meaningful game. Edgy DC Aug 01 2009 01:44 PM And if our issue is that it takes a trade for Manuel to give somebody a chance who may or may not be better than a pitcher he's got rotting in the back of the bullpen, its' not a trade we should be clamoring for. metirish Aug 01 2009 04:33 PM ="Valadius":oqm0lk9w]Honestly, I don't think Misch knows how to get Jerry to trust him enough to get him in a meaningful game.[/quote:oqm0lk9w] What is this " Days of our Lives"? Frayed Knot Aug 01 2009 08:37 PM Back to the Pirates for a sec; 3 HRs for McCutcheon today (and power is supposed to be his weakest suit). Would have been nice to see him in an OF [u:3uw4r55j]WITH[/u:3uw4r55j] McLouth and a few of the others. btw, they brought up Milledge as one of the guys tying to fill all these newly created spots. Fman99 Aug 01 2009 09:15 PM ="Frayed Knot":qeskhzrl]Back to the Pirates for a sec; 3 HRs for McCutcheon today (and power is supposed to be his weakest suit). Would have been nice to see him in an OF [u:qeskhzrl]WITH[/u:qeskhzrl] McLouth and a few of the others. btw, they brought up Milledge as one of the guys tying to fill all these newly created spots.[/quote:qeskhzrl] Good, I am still rooting for LMillz and his gangsta ass. Valadius Aug 02 2009 07:55 AM My most lasting memory of Lastings: Nymr83 Aug 02 2009 08:07 AM ="Valadius":narzpqw5]My most lasting memory of Lastings[/quote:narzpqw5] first drink my ass. Valadius Aug 02 2009 08:23 AM ="Nymr83":1zjqc8zc]="Valadius":1zjqc8zc]My most lasting memory of Lastings[/quote:1zjqc8zc] first drink my ass.[/quote:1zjqc8zc] Exactly.

I was thinking that maybe they were going to replay the Hodges/Jones incident last night when they do that way-back machine thing during each game. But July 30 was also Casey's birthday so he took priority instead.

Niese - 2.5 Green - 0.3 Parnell - 0.3 Stokes - 0.1 Tatis - 1.5 Wright - 1.0 Pagan - 0.5 Francoeur - 0.5 Santos - 0.5

Thursday, July 31 - Shea Stadium: Astros 2 - Mets 0 -- Tom Griffin v Tom Seasver So the pitching gets straightened out and the bats go silent. It�s always something! Seaver holds the hot Astro bats to 6 hits over 7, but a 3 AB streak in the 6th of HR - 1B - 2B (Wynn - Menke - Blefary) does all the damage Houston�s Griffin walks 5 but otherwise scatters 4 hits and reliever Fred Gladding finishes the 9th w/3 consecutive ground-outs and the sweep is complete. Game Time = 2:24 55 - 44; 2nd place; 6.5 Games out of 1st , 2.5 games ahead of 3rd place StL (Cubs beat Giants 12-2)

Carroll's been known to throw up some wildly speculative stuff in the past without much backing and this sounds like more of the same. That doesn't mean this situation couldn't go south at some point, but between "near certainty" that he'll need micro-fracture surgery, and "unlikely he can play CF" I think he's doing a bit of reaching here.

Pirates lineup on June 11, 2008: Nate McLouth CF Freddy Sanchez 2B Jason Bay LF Ryan Doumit C Xavier Nady RF Adam LaRoche 1B Jose Bautista 3B Jack Wilson SS Ian Snell P That's about 400 days - or only 200 baseball days - ago and yet only Ryan Doumit remains ... and that might only be because it's not 4 o'clock yet. The other thing about this process is that, with the exception of Andy LaRoche and a few back-end pitchers, I don't think any of the guys they dealt [u:1idne2hb]for[/u:1idne2hb] are on the major league roster yet. This whole experiment is going to be a huge wait-and-see project.

Not to mention that it sounds like that "talk" essentially consists of one web site quoting another. IOW, the Fan-Boy Internet Press Scoop Association (FBIPSA) is in full trade-deadline mode.

Giving potential runs away in the 1st inning = not good Then in the 8th, Castillo, Wright & Francoeur all hit consecutive liners but we had only one single to show out of it. That and one bad inning from Neise.

Santana - 4.2 Pagan - 0.7 Cora - 1.0 Sullivan - 1.2 Berroa - 1.2 Wright - 1.0 Santos - 0.7

="Nymr83"]="Frayed Knot"]And I know this is a typo, but at the moment it's better than the Harry Chiti trade: According to BB-Ref -- July 29: Rockies trade Jason Hirsh to the Rockies for a player to be named. I do hope Hirsch turns out to be that player. he's actually been traded to the Yankees, and given his numbers in AAA this year i hope they plan on using him soon. His 2009 minor league ERA stands at 6.66 -- is there any other team he could be traded to with those stats?

I suspect what Omar meant was that an asst got wind of a name or two being available while chasing other info. IOW, they didn't necc go after Francoeur but were offered him in the course of persuing other business, not that they're looking for specifically for low-OBP hackers. Some of the best trades happen that way, such as the time Frank Cashen heard the words, "what about Hernandez?", come through his earpiece whilst chatting with the Cardinals about something completely different.

="Edgy DC":3063ov4l]Poor Andy LaRoche. He takes the field every day with an entirely new infield and outfield of borderline players and before he goes to bed looks himself in the mirror and wonders, "Am I not even good enough to trade? Not even to the Mets?"[/quote:3063ov4l] Except that Andy was one of the guys they traded FOR in the course of their sell-offs. He came from the Dodgers in the three-way Bay/Manny deal. Edgy DC Jul 30 2009 12:48 PM That's so last season. We're talking this year's trades. Catch up. LaRoche is a longtimer now. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 30 2009 01:08 PM ="bmfc1":1t3ovh1v]From Omar's (latest) presser today, as noted by [u:1t3ovh1v]The Daily News[/u:1t3ovh1v]: While Manuel said he does not anticipate any moves before tomorrow's trade deadline, Minaya said he's been talking to teams lately and "turned down a couple trades yesterday. Believe it or not, some pretty big names were presented." He also said he had one of his assistants calling another team today about an idea that came up "in the same way we got (Jeff) Francoeur."[/quote:1t3ovh1v] Oh, Christ, that's scary. Edgy DC Jul 30 2009 01:21 PM Francoeur has been a great addition any way you cut it. Let's try and enjoy it. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 30 2009 01:35 PM ="Edgy DC":37h06uur]Francoeur has been a great addition any way you cut it. Let's try and enjoy it.[/quote:37h06uur] Make no mistake-- I'm enjoying it and him-- between the pluck and the arm and the exuberant country music as his AB-theme, he's tough to root against. That said... Following the same player-eval process that got him here would, in all likelihood, be a grievous mistake. Edgy DC Jul 30 2009 01:38 PM GREVIOUS!! Frayed Knot Jul 30 2009 01:41 PM I suspect what Omar meant was that an asst got wind of a name or two being available while chasing other info. IOW, they didn't necc go after Francoeur but were offered him in the course of persuing other business, not that they're looking for specifically for low-OBP hackers. Some of the best trades happen that way, such as the time Frank Cashen heard the words, "what about Hernandez?", come through his earpiece whilst chatting with the Cardinals about something completely different. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 30 2009 01:44 PM ="Edgy DC"]GREVIOUS!! Yes, grievous. ="Frayed Knot"]... such as the time Frank Cashen heard the words, "what about Hernandez?", come through his earpiece whilst chatting with the Cardinals about something completely different. Is that how the Hernandez trade happened? I dinna know. metirish Jul 30 2009 01:49 PM From a link Edgy linked? earlier from June 13 2004 ] INSIDE PITCH Mets General Manager JIM DUQUETTE said the team was still trying to add players through trades. Duquette has spoken with Kansas City General Manager ALLARD BAIRD about CARLOS BELTRAN, the Royals' center fielder, who will be a free agent after the season. The Mets would like to trade for Beltran, but are not looking to deal the third-base prospect DAVID WRIGHT. If the Mets landed Beltran, they would probably use him in right field and keep MIKE CAMERON in center. Beltran said Friday that he would not sign a long-term contract with a team that would not let him play center field. Frayed Knot Jul 30 2009 01:51 PM ="Nymr83"]="Frayed Knot"]And I know this is a typo, but at the moment it's better than the Harry Chiti trade: According to BB-Ref -- July 29: Rockies trade Jason Hirsh to the Rockies for a player to be named. I do hope Hirsch turns out to be that player. he's actually been traded to the Yankees, and given his numbers in AAA this year i hope they plan on using him soon. His 2009 minor league ERA stands at 6.66 -- is there any other team he could be traded to with those stats? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 30 2009 01:56 PM ="Frayed Knot"]="Nymr83"]="Frayed Knot"]And I know this is a typo, but at the moment it's better than the Harry Chiti trade: According to BB-Ref -- July 29: Rockies trade Jason Hirsh to the Rockies for a player to be named. I do hope Hirsch turns out to be that player. he's actually been traded to the Yankees, and given his numbers in AAA this year i hope they plan on using him soon. His 2009 minor league ERA stands at 6.66 -- is there any other team he could be traded to with those stats? Fly ball pitcher in MFY Airport/National Bank! JACKPOT. Edgy DC Jul 30 2009 02:02 PM ="Frayed Knot":31ilqb25]I suspect what Omar meant was that an asst got wind of a name or two being available while chasing other info. IOW, they didn't necc go after Francoeur but were offered him in the course of persuing other business, not that they're looking for specifically for low-OBP hackers. Some of the best trades happen that way, such as the time Frank Cashen heard the words, "what about Hernandez?", come through his earpiece whilst chatting with the Cardinals about something completely different.[/quote:31ilqb25] That's my guess. Not very grevious. DocTee Jul 30 2009 05:16 PM Buccos continue bullimic purge, sending Grabow and Gorzelanny to Cubbies. Also, Dodgers land Orioles closer George Sherill to bolster bullpen. Nymr83 Jul 30 2009 06:11 PM ]Poor Andy LaRoche. He takes the field every day with an entirely new infield and outfield of borderline players and before he goes to bed looks himself in the mirror and wonders, "Am I not even good enough to trade? Not even to the Mets?" AND he gets to look over his shoulder every day as their top prospect is 3rd baseman Pedro Alvarez smg58 Jul 30 2009 07:53 PM ="DocTee":ijqu6ckw]Buccos continue bullimic purge, sending Grabow and Gorzelanny to Cubbies. Also, Dodgers land Orioles closer George Sherill to bolster bullpen.[/quote:ijqu6ckw] If the Cubs are stocking up on lefties, that might mean Sean Marshall is available. He'd be a good sleeper pickup assuming the Cubs aren't valuing him highly. Edgy DC Jul 30 2009 08:05 PM I count Capps, Doumit, Dukes, LaRouche, and Maholm still standing. One more day. Valadius Jul 30 2009 08:41 PM Rumor flying around: Mets talking trade with Cleveland and Tampa that might result in the prodigal son returning home. Yes, that's right - Scott Kazmir. [url:1g57httn]http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/7/30/970076/rumor-mets-talking-3-way-deal-with?ref=yahoo[/url:1g57httn] John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 30 2009 08:54 PM Do not want. Edgy DC Jul 30 2009 09:12 PM Not on a bus. Not with a guy named Gus. Valadius Jul 30 2009 09:21 PM I would much rather have Victor Martinez come our way in that deal instead of to Tampa. Frayed Knot Jul 30 2009 09:28 PM Not to mention that it sounds like that "talk" essentially consists of one web site quoting another. IOW, the Fan-Boy Internet Press Scoop Association (FBIPSA) is in full trade-deadline mode. seawolf17 Jul 31 2009 07:31 AM I'd take Kazmir back. Frayed Knot Jul 31 2009 07:51 AM Pirates lineup on June 11, 2008: Nate McLouth CF Freddy Sanchez 2B Jason Bay LF Ryan Doumit C Xavier Nady RF Adam LaRoche 1B Jose Bautista 3B Jack Wilson SS Ian Snell P That's about 400 days - or only 200 baseball days - ago and yet only Ryan Doumit remains ... and that might only be because it's not 4 o'clock yet. The other thing about this process is that, with the exception of Andy LaRoche and a few back-end pitchers, I don't think any of the guys they dealt [u:1idne2hb]for[/u:1idne2hb] are on the major league roster yet. This whole experiment is going to be a huge wait-and-see project. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 08:59 AM i like pittsburgh's approach though. the team just isnt very good as constituted and with the exception of Bay i don't consider any of those players to be of the irreplaceable variety. they took the necessary steps to rebuild, i hope ownership is patient enough with the manager and GM to see if it works rather than firing them in two years and letting the next guy reap the benefits of the trades. I think they did a very good job of selling high on a few of these guys, particularly McLouth and Sanchez. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 09:20 AM They'll survive the season. It's a raw team but no rawer than what the Mets have sent out the last two months. PosGuyBAOBPSLGOPScRyan Doumit.255.324.398.7221bSteve Pearce.184.279.289.5682bDelwyn Young.316.381.427.8083bAndy LaRoche.256.330.372.702ssRonny Cedeno.167.213.290.503lfBrandon Moss.250.310.385.695cfAndrew McCutcheon.275.332.430.762rfGarret Jones.323.375.7291.104 John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 31 2009 09:53 AM Tigers trade for Jerrod Washburn, rumored for some time to be bound for the MFYs. Lefty pitchers Luke French and Mauricio Robles going to Seattle. Frayed Knot Jul 31 2009 11:08 AM ="Edgy DC":yh9lywsb]They'll survive the season. It's a raw team but no rawer than what the Mets have sent out the last two months. PosGuyBAOBPSLGOPScRyan Doumit.255.324.398.7221bSteve Pearce.184.279.289.5682bDelwyn Young.316.381.427.8083bAndy LaRoche.256.330.372.702ssRonny Cedeno.167.213.290.503lfBrandon Moss.250.310.385.695cfAndrew McCutcheon.275.332.430.762rfGarret Jones.323.375.7291.104[/quote:yh9lywsb] Of course the best of those raw guys are McCutcheon and Jones who were coming anyway. My objection isn't that they're going about it the wrong way but that they seem intent on trading everyone whether they get a good return or not. A lot of Can-Miss guys in that haul. Farmer Ted Jul 31 2009 11:46 AM Minny lands Orlando Cabrera from the A's. I never understood the Orlando attraction. metirish Jul 31 2009 11:49 AM Claudio Vargas back to the Brewers from LA for a minor league catcher.....Vinny Rottino MFS62 Jul 31 2009 11:51 AM ="Farmer Ted":1md20mfn]Minny lands Orlando Cabrera from the A's. I never understood the Orlando attraction.[/quote:1md20mfn] What was confusing about EPCOT? The trade was for a kid shortstop named Ladendorf (sp?). No link yet. Later Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:25 PM Joe Beimel traded to Rockies. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:27 PM Victor Martinez to Boston, Adam LaRoche to the Braves in two seperate but related deals. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:28 PM Jerry Hairston jr. to the Evil Empire Fman99 Jul 31 2009 01:29 PM Aw we're just sitting on our dongs doing nothing! C'mon, Omar. When you're done offending white people get on the stick, get us another arm/bat. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 01:30 PM No news = good news. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:30 PM What did I miss? when was Omar "offending white people"? Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:30 PM Okay - Boston still has an overload of corner infielders. Now they have Youkilis, Mike Lowell, V-Mart, and Casey Kotchman. One of them can be had. Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:32 PM Heath Bell may be headed to the Dodgers. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 31 2009 01:34 PM Apparently a deal that would send Bell to the Marlins fell though. Another deal discussing Bell & Adrian Gonzo to the Dodgers for Loney + Fman99 Jul 31 2009 01:39 PM ="Nymr83":mq4iuo9l]What did I miss? when was Omar "offending white people"?[/quote:mq4iuo9l] Just Rubin. Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:39 PM Rolen to the Reds. metirish Jul 31 2009 01:40 PM SI_JonHeyman: rolen has been traded to the reds. he just has to waive his no trade clause. indy boy cant turn down cincy, can he? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 31 2009 01:40 PM Scott Rolen to the Reds. "Mets aren;t doing anything" Heyman adds bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 01:42 PM ="Edgy DC":f3ne8dnq]No news = good news.[/quote:f3ne8dnq] Why? Are the Mets are such a powerhouse that they can't be improved or a trade would be a mistake, a la Zambrano/Kazmir, given their place in the standings, or you don't trust Omar to make a deal that's good for the Mets. Omar should do something to show the team that management believes they can still make the playoffs. It maybe symbolic but it's a vote of confidence. metirish Jul 31 2009 01:45 PM ="bmfc1":12wu0gbu]="Edgy DC":12wu0gbu]No news = good news.[/quote:12wu0gbu] Why? Are the Mets are such a powerhouse that they can't be improved or a trade would be a mistake, a la Zambrano/Kazmir, given their place in the standings, or you don't trust Omar to make a deal that's good for the Mets. Omar should do something to show the team that management believes they can still make the playoffs. It maybe symbolic but it's a vote of confidence.[/quote:12wu0gbu] I'd like some action too but this team is more than one impact player away ,don't you think? Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:46 PM The Reds have reportedly traded for Scott Roleb, subject to Rolen's approval(NT Clause) Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:48 PM Sean Smith to the Jays. Fman99 Jul 31 2009 01:49 PM Nationals deal Joe Biemel to Colorado for two minor leaguers. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 01:49 PM ="bmfc1"]="Edgy DC"]No news = good news. Why? Are the Mets are such a powerhouse that they can't be improved or a trade would be a mistake, a la Zambrano/Kazmir, given their place in the standings, or you don't trust Omar to make a deal that's good for the Mets. Omar should do something to show the team that management believes they can still make the playoffs. It maybe symbolic but it's a vote of confidence. I think many trades can do more harm than good. I don't think that trading at the deadline shows belief that a team can make the playoffs. I think it shows belief that it can't without mystical craftiness. And mystical craftiness too often turns out to be hokum. Valadius Jul 31 2009 01:50 PM Hairston deal apparently sends the vaunted Austin Jackson to Cincy. bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 01:50 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2009 01:51 PM ="metirish":3c3fy6qu]I'd like some action too but this team is more than one impact player away ,don't you think?[/quote:3c3fy6qu] Unless the one player is Babe Ruth, yes I agree but I'd be happy with something minor, such as Aubrey Huff. The Mets were supposed to be after a lefty RP but Joe Beimel went to Colorado for 2 minor leaguers. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 01:50 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2009 01:51 PM I'm hoping that the Mets acquire Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado, John Maine, Jose Reyes and Billy Wagner and give up nothing. Not too many teams have a chance to do that. metirish Jul 31 2009 01:51 PM MFY's apparently sent Austin Jackson to Cincy in that deal , is he a highly touted prospect? bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 01:52 PM lenno212 No #Mets lineup yet. Hmm. Last time this happened, Church was sent to Atlanta. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 01:52 PM ="metirish":1kmxpyuu]MFY's apparently sent Austin Jackson to Cincy in that deal , is he a highly touted prospect?[/quote:1kmxpyuu] yes. kinda suprised hairston was worth that much. metirish Jul 31 2009 01:53 PM the buzz around Citi Field continues to suggest the Mets will not be making any major deals today� �in fact, as reporters file in to the ballpark, they�ll encounter team officials, media reps, etc., and if something was going down we�d probably have known about it by now� �in the end, i believe the Mets had options, but they chose to hang on to their top prospects, knowing a) players will be available on the waiver wire, and getting Jose Reyes, Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran and Billy Wagner is better than any one trade they could have possibly made� metsblog metirish Jul 31 2009 01:55 PM ="Nymr83":2llmme19]="metirish":2llmme19]MFY's apparently sent Austin Jackson to Cincy in that deal , is he a highly touted prospect?[/quote:2llmme19] yes. kinda suprised hairston was worth that much.[/quote:2llmme19] not true now apparently.......I was wary of this becasue this guy gets mentioned in every big deal that's talked about for them.....close to untouchable bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 02:03 PM Edgy's happy but I'm not. Omar confirms my opinion that he is an awful in-season GM. He can wine, dine, schmooze, and attract big name FAs but for the second year in a row, he failed to make a deadline deal to help the team. metirish Jul 31 2009 02:04 PM ck Johnson to the Marlins per fox sports Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:08 PM ="bmfc1"]Edgy's happy but I'm not. Omar confirms my opinion that he is an awful in-season GM. He can wine, dine, schmooze, and attract big name FAs but for the second year in a row, he failed to make a deadline deal to help the team. Awful GMs make deals that hurt teams. "You've gotta know when to hold." --- K. Rogers Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:09 PM Johnson to the Marlins for AA-lefty Aaron Thompson. never heard of him. bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 02:10 PM Does that mean that Omar is an awful GM? Good GMs get creative to help their teams. Omar certainly isn't a good GM. Is someone going to start an IGT with a clever name. The lineup is in. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:13 PM ="bmfc1"]Does that mean that Omar is an awful GM? Does what mean that? ]Good GMs get creative to help their teams. Trades aren't the only way to help a team. Often, perhaps half the time or more, not trading has helped a team more. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:13 PM ="Nymr83":28x0vm8e]Johnson to the Marlins for AA-lefty Aaron Thompson. never heard of him.[/quote:28x0vm8e] and the Nats are paying the salary. wow, are the marlins the cheapest franchise on earth or what? metirish Jul 31 2009 02:14 PM I'd rather do nothing than trade for a Huff or Scott Downs for the bullpen...... Valadius Jul 31 2009 02:14 PM I started the IGT already. bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 02:14 PM Do you think that Omar is incapable of making a good trade so any trade would be bad? Frayed Knot Jul 31 2009 02:15 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2009 02:18 PM ="Valadius":nlpyoup8]Hairston deal apparently sends the vaunted Austin Jackson to Cincy.[/quote:nlpyoup8] Wow! Not a sure-fire future star but is potentially one and he's a guy they spent a decent signing bonus on in order to wrest him away from a hoops scholarship (Arizona I think) --- sounds like a lot to spend for essentially a good utility man. Essentially this is the price paid for Brent Gardener breaking his hand (finger?) last week. Ceetar Jul 31 2009 02:16 PM metsblog mentioned it earlier, and I noticed it last night, but apparently the Yankees are having money concerns? Supposedly they balked at the idea of paying Bannister's 650k salary. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:16 PM ="bmfc1":1ihptp6l]Do you think that Omar is incapable of making a good trade so any trade would be bad?[/quote:1ihptp6l] No. I don't think he or anybody is incapable of making a good trade. I'm still trying to figure out the last question. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:17 PM Scott Rolen has reportedly waived his no trade clause and escaped hockey loving Canada to play baseball in Cincinatti. metirish Jul 31 2009 02:18 PM ="Frayed Knot":11hlah5p]="Valadius":11hlah5p]Hairston deal apparently sends the vaunted Austin Jackson to Cincy.[/quote:11hlah5p] Wow![/quote:11hlah5p] That was posted and then I posted it here but apparently it's not true. bmfc1 Jul 31 2009 02:19 PM And I'm trying to figure out why the GM of a team under .500 with hopes of making the playoffs couldn't make a trade. Edgy--I'm not going to continue this but congrats to you that nothing was done. If they make the playoffs, I'll eat crow and buy you a drink. Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:24 PM ="bmfc1":pmjfgign]And I'm trying to figure out why the GM of a team under .500 with hopes of making the playoffs couldn't make a trade. Edgy--I'm not going to continue this but congrats to you that nothing was done. If they make the playoffs, I'll eat crow and buy you a drink.[/quote:pmjfgign] even if they don't make the playoffs they've done fine not making a trade unless they miss the playoffs by a number of games that the potentially traded-for player would have won them. trading for Nick Johnson and missing the playoffs by 2 games instead of missing it by 4 without him only hurts the team's farm system. I look at net games back and i don't see a team that should trade even a small part of the future for help in 2009. if the guy you were acquiring would still be under contract for 2010 thats another issue, but this shouldnt be treated as a 'win now' team Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 02:26 PM Heyman is reporting that Peavy has been dealt to the White Sox again, no word on if he has agreed to it this time. Frayed Knot Jul 31 2009 02:27 PM I propose we trade Sullivan and/or Reed, plus Berroa and Cancel for Reyes, Beltran & Delgado sometime in the next few weeks. That'll improve the team. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:28 PM ="bmfc1":488nciud]And I'm trying to figure out why the GM of a team under .500 with hopes of making the playoffs couldn't make a trade.[/quote:488nciud] Because, in theory, the only available trades may have hurt them in the long term more than helped them in the short term. Or hurt them flat out. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 31 2009 02:33 PM Jake PV to the White Sox: This time it's for real. Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 02:33 PM Fo nucking way! metirish Jul 31 2009 02:34 PM Big guns that didn't go Halladay and Gonzalez duan Jul 31 2009 02:37 PM as everyone else has rightly pointed out, the pieces that this team needs are the ones that are on the DL, if heaven forbid, we're back IN a race over the next two weeks, there's plenty of time then to get an Aubrey Huff type power bat who'll float through waivers cause of salary. I don't see anyone out there who got traded that I think would have helped a healthy mets team bar Victor Martinez, Jake Peavy & Cliff Lee.I don't think we were really in the race to get them and they all have plenty of limitations. Frayed Knot Jul 31 2009 03:05 PM ="metirish"]="Frayed Knot"]="Valadius"]Hairston deal apparently sends the vaunted Austin Jackson to Cincy. Wow! That was posted and then I posted it here but apparently it's not true. Well then never mind my above rant. The truth apparently: The Reds received minor league catcher Chase Weems in the deal. The 20-year-old Weems was batting .260 with a homer and 14 RBIs in 55 games with Class-A Charleston this season. He was picked in the sixth round of the 2007 draft. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 31 2009 03:11 PM ="Edgy DC"]="bmfc1"]Edgy's happy but I'm not. Omar confirms my opinion that he is an awful in-season GM. He can wine, dine, schmooze, and attract big name FAs but for the second year in a row, he failed to make a deadline deal to help the team. Awful GMs make deals that hurt teams. "You've gotta know when to hold." --- K. Rogers Hear, hear. I'm in Edge's corner on this. They moved the Peavy? Those crazy bastards! (A LOT of good young arms on the Pods now.) Nymr83 Jul 31 2009 03:22 PM Peavy was a good young arm, and under contract a few more years, I don't know who they got yet but its hard to believe its worth it for a guy you're not about to lose. Farmer Ted Jul 31 2009 03:55 PM Which of the three...Washburn, Peavy, or Halladay...will be with the Mets next year? MFS62 Jul 31 2009 04:13 PM Omar's like the ugly girl - all alone by the telephone - waiting for a call inviting her to the dance. Later smg58 Jul 31 2009 05:01 PM Minaya could very easily have been told not to take on more payroll for this season, so I wouldn't point the finger too quickly. I actually think the fact that Halladay is still a Jay is a good thing -- assuming you can wait until the offseason to obtain him. Peavy is guaranteed $52M over the next 3 seasons and is now an established injury risk who'll fail to reach 175 IP for the second straight year. I'm perfectly OK with passing on him. I wouldn't have minded V-Mart, though. metirish Jul 31 2009 05:51 PM I just don't get the Minaya bashing today , if he had traded for Francouer today would the people who are unhappy be happy with that? I read in one of the rags the other day.....Madden I think it was proclaiming that Minaya NEEDED to get Halladay to change the subject around the team. Could you blame the guy if he did that , make a splash trade for the sake of it? , I'd love to have a Halladay or a Peavey but would have preferred V Martinez. At what cost though would they have come for? I'm not upset that we didn't get middle of the road players and never expected top tier players so i am not disappointed. MFS62 Jul 31 2009 06:14 PM Not bashing. Just saying. Add me to the group who didn't want to see a deal that drained the farm of key prospects. As Edgy said, no news = good news. Later seawolf17 Jul 31 2009 06:19 PM I actually would have liked to see them move some guys, like Livan or Schneider, even if just for middling prospects. But I'm okay with inaction too. Let's get healthy, fellas! Nymr83 Aug 01 2009 12:53 AM ESPN had the Pirates deals put together for convenience ]IN: RHP Nathan Adcock, RHP Tim Alderson, RHP Jose Ascanio, SS Ronny Cedeno, 1B Jeff Clement, SS Argenis Diaz, RHP Joel Hanrahan, RHP Kevin Hart, OF Gorkys Hernandez, RHP Jeff Locke, RHP Brett Lorin, OF Lastings Milledge, RHP Charlie Morton, RHP Aaron Pribanic, RHP Hunter Strickland OUT: RHP Sean Burnett, LHP Tom Gorzelanny, LHP John Grabow, OF Eric Hinske, 1B Adam LaRoche, OF Nate McLouth, OF Nyjer Morgan, INF Freddy Sanchez, RHP Ian Snell, SS Jack Wilson dgwphotography Aug 01 2009 05:17 AM Personally, I'm glad Omar didn't make any deals. This team is too many players away from contending right now, and I just didn't want him to do any more damage.... As FK said, trading Sullivan, Reed, plus Berroa and Cancel for Reyes, Beltran & Delgado sometime in the next few weeks would be the best trade possible... metirish Aug 01 2009 07:52 AM Minaya ] �As a general manager, I�ve been six games out before, and it�s kind of hard to go out and make a trade,� Minaya said. �And you guys know our situation. The situation is not one player. Our situation is a couple players.� In the clubhouse, no one seemed concerned that he might be traded � or, for that matter, that anyone else would be. Only a few players lounged on couches watching updates on the MLB Network, as many more bolted outside to fly a remote-controlled helicopter Wright ] �I don�t think the reason for our record being what it is is that we needed one more piece,� David Wright said. �It�s that we played poorly at times and we�re pretty banged up. We�re not one piece away that�s going to put us over the top at the trade deadline. It�s not like we�re not going to get more than that when we get these guys healthy.� Rockin' Doc Aug 01 2009 09:04 AM No one player was going to suddenly put this team over the top. Injuries have been the story of this season. All teams get hit with injuries and must work to overcome them, the Mets have unfortunately been with a rash of long term injuries to a multitiude of their key players. I'm more disappointed at the lost opportunity to see how good this team could have been this season had they not been decimated with injuries, than I am over the absence of any desperate trades in hopes of miraculously putting this team into contention. Vince Coleman Firecracker Aug 01 2009 10:41 AM I'm with Seawolf. Would have liked to see Omar sell off a few players. Valadius Aug 01 2009 11:25 AM I would have liked to see another lefty for the bullpen, at least. Edgy DC Aug 01 2009 11:51 AM We have Misch, and we're getting Wagner, and I'm uncertain anybody else will have made a difference worth giving somebody up for, except that maybe Manuel may trust an import more than he does Misch. Valadius Aug 01 2009 12:33 PM Honestly, I don't think Misch knows how to get Jerry to trust him enough to get him in a meaningful game. Edgy DC Aug 01 2009 01:44 PM And if our issue is that it takes a trade for Manuel to give somebody a chance who may or may not be better than a pitcher he's got rotting in the back of the bullpen, its' not a trade we should be clamoring for. metirish Aug 01 2009 04:33 PM ="Valadius":oqm0lk9w]Honestly, I don't think Misch knows how to get Jerry to trust him enough to get him in a meaningful game.[/quote:oqm0lk9w] What is this " Days of our Lives"? Frayed Knot Aug 01 2009 08:37 PM Back to the Pirates for a sec; 3 HRs for McCutcheon today (and power is supposed to be his weakest suit). Would have been nice to see him in an OF [u:3uw4r55j]WITH[/u:3uw4r55j] McLouth and a few of the others. btw, they brought up Milledge as one of the guys tying to fill all these newly created spots. Fman99 Aug 01 2009 09:15 PM ="Frayed Knot":qeskhzrl]Back to the Pirates for a sec; 3 HRs for McCutcheon today (and power is supposed to be his weakest suit). Would have been nice to see him in an OF [u:qeskhzrl]WITH[/u:qeskhzrl] McLouth and a few of the others. btw, they brought up Milledge as one of the guys tying to fill all these newly created spots.[/quote:qeskhzrl] Good, I am still rooting for LMillz and his gangsta ass. Valadius Aug 02 2009 07:55 AM My most lasting memory of Lastings: Nymr83 Aug 02 2009 08:07 AM ="Valadius":narzpqw5]My most lasting memory of Lastings[/quote:narzpqw5] first drink my ass. Valadius Aug 02 2009 08:23 AM ="Nymr83":1zjqc8zc]="Valadius":1zjqc8zc]My most lasting memory of Lastings[/quote:1zjqc8zc] first drink my ass.[/quote:1zjqc8zc] Exactly.

I remember Mike & Mad Dog getting the stats on this a couple years back (all DHs, not just Met) and being absolutely stunned (them, not me) that the results were almost exactly where you'd expect them to be for any two-game stint: - approx 25% sweeps one way, 25% sweeps the other, and splits at right around 50% They were under the impression that the stacking two games as a DH was going to make the splits pct far higher and had been treating that as a 'fact' for years.

And the words most met fans never thought they'd utter this season ... "Oh no we're without Luis Castillo"!!

And I know this is a typo, but at the moment it's better than the Harry Chiti trade: According to BB-Ref -- July 29: Rockies trade Jason Hirsh to the Rockies for a player to be named. I do hope Hirsch turns out to be that player.

So it turns out that the �69-ers spent July 29th getting rained out and July 30th playing a DH too! Wednesday, July 30 - Shea Stadium: Astros 16 - Mets 3 -- Don Wilson v Jerry Koosman Koosman gives up 4 runs early and another in the 6th Single Met runs in the 4th, 5th & 7th make it a relatively close 5-3 game until it�s blown open when the Astros score 11 in the 9th off first Koonce (5 runs - all earned) and then Taylor (2/3 IP - 6 ER, 4 H, 2 BB). TWO Grand-Slams in that frame: Dennis Menke (off Koonce) and later Jimmy Wynn off Taylor. Game Time 3:00 Wednesday, July 30 - Shea Stadium (2nd game): Astros 11 - Mets 5 -- Larry Dierker v Gary Gentry More big inning woes for the staff as Houston explodes for 10 runs in the 3rd. Gentry was perfect thru 2 and had 2 outs in the 3rd with a runner on 2nd when it all fell apart: IF 1B + Error, BB, 1B, SB, BB, BB, bases-loaded 3B, 1B That prompted a pitching change but Ryan relieving immediately gives up a run-scoring 2B. ** it�s at this point that Ron Swoboda suddenly replaces Cleon Jones in LF in what I believe was the famous loafing incident ** The change helps not as Ryan then serves up a 2R HR to opposing pitcher Dierker and the rout in on. Kranepool�s 3R HR in the 8th is merely window dressing. Game Time = 2:37 55 -43; 2nd place; 5.5 Games out of 1st (Cubs lose to Giants 6 - 3) Another side note to Game 2 Both Dierker and Gentry were in the midst of good seasons and both were several months away from turning 23 years old. Gentry was a rookie although Dierker had been up for years at this point, pitching his first ML game at age 17. Both had very promising early careers - Dierker especially. But Gentry had his last good season at age 24, his last full season at 25, and was out of the game by 28 Dierker wound up on starting on the down slope by age 25, had a couple decent seasons after that but threw his last pitch at age 30 I think about stuff like this occasionally whenever I hear complaints about how pitchers are being babied these days.

Wouldn't be ours either.

* Marlins beat Braves again * Phils get shut out by Arizona as Yusmeiro Petit (6 IP, 4 H - 1st win) out-pitched J. A. (still a Philly) Happ * Dodgers kept blowing saves and finally lost to StL in the 15th. LA had a 1-0 lead in the 9th but the Cards tied it. Then they scored again in the 11th but again the Cards evened it up. Finally Jeff Weaver almost escaped a leadoff triple in bottom 15, After and IF pop-up - then a FC/out at home, Albert knocked in the winner w/2 outs

="RealityChuck":3ljes3ms]But the anecdotes quoted did provide insight into the relationship and behavior: The Mantle one showed Robinson to be a fierce competitor, but also a decent guy. The Morgan one showed that the pitcher was not going to use the cheap way to get a no hitter.[/quote:3ljes3ms] I'm totally baffled by your stance here. The Mantle & Morgan "insights" don't show anything because the incidents either didn't happen or their recollection of them bring up enough doubt to make us wonder if anything remotely like them ever did. In the Mantle case, for instance, the payoff of the story is the Jackie tip of the cap and the look in his eye added to his competitiveness mixed with post-game humbleness. But we're supposed to buy that all those actually occurred even though we now know that the incident which caused them all is totally made up? I'm not. Edgy DC Jul 30 2009 07:08 AM I tried four different responses, but I was baffled also. Robinson is a very important historical figure, and it serves nobody to fabricate incidents that didn't happen. And it serves nobody but Mantle to lay out a false scenario where Robinson was acknowledged to be a fine sportsman, but Mantle's defense trumped Jackie's baserunning. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 30 2009 07:21 AM What Edge and FK said. I mean, the Morgan thing I just brought up as another example of the modern information store biting an old player squarely in the ass... it's a little less nettlesome, because it was-- presumably-- somewhat extemporaneous. Also, exaggeration is one thing; outright invention-- in printed work, no less-- is another. metirish Jul 30 2009 07:25 AM Same as above for me , nice stories or whatever you what to call them but when I find out they are not true it's a bleh , not at all surprised bu any of it though.

Overbay is merely OK and will turn 33 before next season starts. Plus is LH so a platoon w/Murphy doesn't really work. The thing about 1Bmen is that a decent one isn't really that hard to find -- so I'm not giving up much, if anything, to get one like Overbay.

="bmfc1":331y6747]Coleman isn't an investigative reporter. He didn't come up with that on his own.[/quote:331y6747] Eddie may not be a turn over every rock kind of reporter but he is in the locker room talking to people on a regular basis and at least implied (both in writing and in the radio chat I heard) that it was his speculation based on what some said that that was what set Omar off. Plus if mgmt is the one feeding him that angle I don't see how they think that makes them look any better. bmfc1 Jul 29 2009 05:48 PM Fair enough FK--you heard it, I didn't. I was just suggesting that it's possible that someone in the Mets front office was still trying to cover Omar's tracks. After the other day, anything is possible. Kong76 Jul 29 2009 06:21 PM This whole saga just needs to go away already. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 29 2009 07:17 PM ="G-Fafif":ti9im9j6][ Somehow I'm reminded of Oscar Madison hiring a jokewriter to come up with zingers to spring on Howard Cosell...and Felix tearing them up, rescuing them from the wastebasket and delivering them out of order. [/quote:ti9im9j6] Omar should have called Rubin an inane drone. Rockin' Doc Jul 29 2009 07:37 PM Omar should have called Rubin an assclown. Fman99 Jul 29 2009 07:48 PM Punch -> neck Kick -> **** metirish Jul 30 2009 12:14 PM referring to himself in the third person Minaya apologized today NY Mets general manager Omar Minaya apologizes for causing 'distraction' by criticizing reporter by Brian Costa/The Star-Ledger Thursday July 30, 2009, 11:26 AM ] NEW YORK -- Mets general manager Omar Minaya apologized again Thursday for his conduct during Monday's press conference to announce the firing of Tony Bernazard, during which he got into a heated exchange with a reporter. Minaya said he met with New York Daily News reporter Adam Rubin to apologize in person Wednesday. "You guys know me," Minaya said. "That's just not the way Omar Minaya is, that's not what I stand for, but the bottom line is I made a mistake. The bottom line is that you make a mistake, and I admit to making a mistake in bringing up the things that I did." Sitting in the Mets' dugout before Thursday's doubleheader against the Rockies at Citi Field, Minaya said the fallout from Monday has been a distraction as Friday's non-waiver trade deadline approaches. But he said it hasn't kept him from being active in trade talks. "I've been talking to teams, guys," Minaya said. "I turned down a couple of trades yesterday. I mean, I talked to some teams and believe it or not we had some pretty big names that were presented. That being said, if you talk to general managers around the league, I've been calling around. We have some ideas."

* 12-0 was your Wrigley final. Most of those runs off the hide of Mike Hampton * Matt Cain & Zack Duke hooked up for not only the shortest pitchers name contest but also a scoreless duel thru 9. Giants won in the 10th off Matt Capps while the GMs of the two teams were making trades. * Boston - who blew a 3-run lead in the 9th yesterday and eventually lost in the 11th - coughs up 5 to Oakland in the 1st inning tonight (Penny) * Halladay pitched (and lost) this afternoon in Seattle (where it's been nearly 100 degrees all week - WTF?) so that's 5 fewer days until he can help a contender

Pittsburgh continues to deal: Freddie Sanchez to the Giants for AA pitcher Tim Alderson - considered a pretty decent prospect IIRC.