Frayed Knot

The best player on the 1980 squad shouldn't receive the same "30" that the best player on the 1986 squad received. He might receive the same '30' but a very different score.

Ceetar wrote: So far Sandy's hired a Paul, and a John Paul. any managerial candidates named Paul? Or maybe Benedict?

Type 'A' and Type 'B' Free Agents [u:3u67hhhe]Type A[/u:3u67hhhe] Catchers: Victor Martinez (Bos), A.J. Pierzynski (CWS), Ramon Hernandez (Cin), Bengie Molina (Tex). First Basemen: Paul Konerko (CWS), Adam Dunn (Was), Derrek Lee (Atl) Second Basemen: None. Third Basemen: Adrian Beltre (Bos), Miguel Tejada (SD). Shortstops: Derek Jeter (NYY). Outfielders: Jayson Werth (Phi), Carl Crawford (TB), Magglio Ordonez (Det), Manny Ramirez (CWS). Designated Hitters: Vladimir Guerrero (Tex). Starting Pitchers: Cliff Lee (Tex), Andy Pettitte (NYY), Carl Pavano (Min), Jorge de la Rosa (Col). Relief Pitchers: Rafael Soriano (TB), Mariano Rivera (NYY), Matt Guerrier (Min), Scott Downs (Tor), Dan Wheeler (TB), Jason Frasor (Tor), Frank Francisco (Tex), Grant Balfour (TB), Arthur Rhodes (Cin). [u:3u67hhhe]Type B[/u:3u67hhhe] Catchers: John Buck (Tor), Miguel Olivo (Tor), Jason Varitek (Bos), Yorvit Torrealba (SD), Gerald Laird (Det), Rod Barajas (LAD). First Basemen: Lance Berkman (NYY), Carlos Pena (TB), Mike Lowell (Bos), Adam LaRoche (Ari), Aubrey Huff (SF). Second Basemen: Orlando Hudson (Min), David Eckstein (SD). Third Basemen: Felipe Lopez (Bos). Shortstops: Orlando Cabrera (Cin), Juan Uribe (SF). Outfielders: Brad Hawpe (TB), Scott Podsednik (LAD). Designated Hitters: Johnny Damon (Det), Hideki Matsui (LAA). Starting Pitchers: Jon Garland (SD), Javier Vazquez (NYY), Hiroki Kuroda (LAD), Kevin Millwood (Bal), Kevin Correia (SD). Relief Pitchers: Jon Rauch (Min), Koji Uehara (Bal), Brian Fuentes (Min), Kevin Gregg (Tor), Joaquin Benoit (TB), Pedro Feliciano (NYM), Octavio Dotel (Col), Trevor Hoffman (Mil), Kerry Wood (NYY), Randy Choate (TB), J.J. Putz (CWS), Jesse Crain (Min), Aaron Heilman (Ari), Chad Durbin (Phi), Chad Qualls (TB). Losing a Type A FA results in getting both a 1st (or 2nd) round draft pick from the signing team plus a supplemental round pick Losing a Type B FA results in getting an extra draft pick in the supplemental round Both types are subject to properly offering arbitration ... yyybbb Both of the above lists show the players in order of their rank within their position. That order can be used to determine which pick goes where if a team signs multiple FAs.

Pitching comparisons: Santana vs Dickey -- Very close seasons. One wasn’t there at the beginning, the other not there at the end. But in between had identical records (11-9) and both deserved better support. Similar ERAs (Dickey better by 0.14), and essentially identical WHiPs. Dickey actually walked fewer but didn’t K nearly as many. I’m putting Johan up top on the basis of 3 extra starts and 25 more IP. Pelfrey -- Led staff in wins, IPs, and starts. Was lights out for a while but also had more bad games than the above two which led to significantly higher ERA & WHiP numbers. Niese -- 2nd on the team in games started and might have been up there fighting it out with the leaders if not for his late season crash ‘n burn. Takahashi -- Allowed fewer baserunners/IP (WHiP) than anyone on the staff while flopping between starting (12 starts), long relief, medium relief & short relief, and finally was near flawless during a short stint of closing. Rodriguez -- 25 saves vs 5 blown with a 2.20 ERA and reasonably low WHiP would be considered a decent to good year for a closer if not for how it ended. Dessens -- Lower ERA than anyone on the team not nicknamed KRod while filling a variety of roles. Also walked very few (almost a freak show on this staff) which is how he was able to K just 16 batters in 47 innings and get away with it. Parnell -- You’d like to see young guys like this less confined to specific roles, but he did OK at times with the limitations Feliciano -- Too many walks (even if some were strategic) pushed his WHiP up high but maybe that’s part of the bargain when you appear in 9 games per week. Acosta -- Too many walks (lather, rinse, repeat) but over a K an inning while less than one hit per. Valdes -- Mejia -- Gee -- Acquitted himself well in a brief time Misch -- Decent stats but appeared in just 12 games Nieve -- Overuse caught up to him. Too many HRs Igarashi -- ERA over 7 Maine -- WHiP near 2.00 and 8 HRs in less than 40 IP Perez -- Like Maine but worse Stoner -- Green -- Now I have to figure out how to combine the two halves.

Specifically to the Dykstra/Bonilla thing; - Dykstra's problem was that in his five seasons with the Mets two of them were partials and in the others he platooned much of the time. So, while he may have been on some great teams, he never wound up as being one of the top guys in any one of them ended up ranking as the 19th, 10th, 6th, 5th, & 19th best Mets on those squads. - Bonilla on the other hand had much higher ranks - he was voted 3rd, 1st, 3rd & 4th place in 1992-95, and then 27th best for his 'contributions' for 1999 - even though they were all sub-80 win teams.

Yes, they are already baked in. The player's score he gets from finishing high or low on the ranks of his fellow Mets for a particular season is then multiplied by the number of team wins* that year. So a top of the list player in a 90 win season is rewarded 1.5x as well as his counterpart in a 60 win year. * Plus bonus points for any post-season advancement.

MFS62 wrote: Too late. Don is now a Jay. Which is the opposite of what would happen if Mr. Payton took a job with the University of San Francisco - because then you could say that Jay is now a Don.

Exactly. They're manipulating the process in order to reach the desired conclusion - even though the conclusions that process was producing were bad enough to make them alter the process.

metirish wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I'm sure more than a few scouted Matsui. It's more true to say that he helped woo Matsui. really? , my memory is that the Mets took him solely on the scouting of Bruce. No. Kaz was a major talent in the JPL still in his prime and the Mets were hardly sold on him simply via Tokyo Bruce's say so - even if anti-Wilponism and revisionist history are in favor of painting it the other way.

To be elected, a candidate must appear on at least 75 percent of the 16 ballots. Results will be announced Dec. 6 at the winter meetings in Lake Buena Vista, Fla. So years after abandoning the small vets committees that were subject to so much questioning on account of the possibility of being controlled by small cliques within and/or intentionally 'stacked' in favor of a candidate they've now gone back to the same idea?

1. Who will manage? -- Terry Collins 2. Who will be replaced on the coaching staff? -- Everybody 'cept Hale 3. Will the secondbaseman be an internal guy or will they look outside? -- Internal but not Castillo 4. Beltran in center or right on opening day? -- Center 5. Will Reyes be extended or traded or will they allow him to play out his walk year. -- No trade/extension by opening day. Maybe later on during the season tho prolly not 6. Will Oliver Perez be shed? -- Yes 7. Will this jet set scene continue, or will he be a regular in Flushing? -- He'll move to NYC full-time 8. Francisco Rodriguez? -- Will be the closer for the NY Mets at least at the start of 2011 9. Which of these semi-ripe guys gets a big opportunity out of camp: a) Lucas Duda? -- Yes Fernando Martinez? -- No c) Dillon Gee -- Yes d) Jenrry Mejia -- No e) Tejada? -- Yes 10. Who plays Santa? -- Jeff Wilpon ... and by that I mean Johan Santana

Looking at the position players first: Only four players played essentially a full season which, along with their level of play, puts them a clear jump ahead of the rest. Wright gets my top spot -- led team in PAs & ABs, 2Bs, XBHs & HRs (by a lot!), TBs, SFs, OBA, SLG, IsoP, Runs Created and RC/27 and those last two weren’t all that close either. OK, he also led in Ks & Errors ... Pagan - a season as good or better than most of us hoped as he proved himself to be a real, live starting outfielder this year. Still, he barely out-hit Wright in BA despite leading by wider margins all year; didn’t walk much, had wide RH/LH splits and doesn’t slug like the corner OFer he mostly is on this team (at least for now). Very nice season and completely turned around his bone-headed running/fielding gaffes from the previous year, just not the best on the team. Reyes - I’m giving him 3rd place amongst hitters over Davis on the basis of a similar number of XBHs (50 vs 53) and the position he plays and despite the lower OBP (33 pts) Davis - seemed lost in the middle there for a while after a strong start and before his good finish. Stabilized the position defensively and managed to maintain a decent OBP (.351) even as the BA sank. Lots of Ks and GiDPs Of the less-than full-timers: Bay - Really?!? The 5th best offensive player? Ummm, yeah. Look, as disappointing as he was considering the money and all, he managed 32 XBHs in 400-some PAs and a decent OBP (.351) while he was there even if the HRs were virtually non-existent. Beltran - Started to come on at the end but too little too late. Essentially had Bay’s stats only with half the ABs and not the edge defensively that he’d usually have. Thole - Little power to speak of but got on base and impressed behind the plate. Francoeur - 5th in ABs on the team. Ummm, played a good outfield and had a nack for the occassional big hit Barajas - Solid six weeks of power. Then nothing. Tejada & Castillo - Tejada made outs more often (.298 OBA) but also fielded better and at least managed to hit the occasional double so he wins this race. Castillo is next. Carter - Most all-around useful bench player Cora - Unfortunately, this is what backup middle infielders look like when pressed into full-time service. Blanco - Threw out runners and hit like ... well like a backup catcher Duda - Power and walks, even if not much else. Felicano - A pinch-hitter with lousy OBA and little power. Was useful defensively. Evans Outside looking in: Tatis, Hessman, Mathews, Arias, Jacobs, Catalanotto, Martinez, Nickeas, Turner

All right, it’s that time again. You’ve ranked the rookies, you’ve ranked the starters, (hell, we’ve even ranked Beatle babes) so now it’s time to rank the whole rank lot of them. As always (or for those who haven’t played before) we’re looking to rank the top 30 Mets as to their contributions to the 2010 season. A reminder, one which may be more applicable this year than in most, is that we’re attempting to measure [u:2lpevgdf]actual contribution[/u:2lpevgdf] to the club this past year and not just how players did compared to salary or prior expectations. IOW, feel free to put Dickey ahead of Santana but only if you think he really had a better season, not just was better only when ‘graded on a curve’ of lower expectations or better bang for the buck. Ditto with, say, Pagan & Wright, or with anyone else who played this past year. Use whatever method you want, just be prepared to back up your choices and logic. Results get compiled into our previous 49 years of ranks and are used to determine the best Mets of all time which show up on your posts under your name. We get to pick our 30 from the 47 players appeared in a NYM uni this year. 27 different position players listed by most to fewest PAs: Wright - Pagan - Reyes - Davis - Francoeur Bay - Castillo - Barajas - Tejada - Beltran Thole - Cora - Carter - Blanco - Feliciano Duda - Tatis - Hessman - Mathews - Hernandez Evans - Arias - Jacobs - Catalanotto - Martinez Nickeas - Turner and 20 Pitchers (seemed like more) sorted by Innings Pitched: Pelfrey - Santana - Dickey - Niese - Takahashi Feliciano - Valdes - Rodriguez - Dessens - Perez Nieve - Maine - Acosta - Mejia - Misch Parnell - Gee - Igarashi - Green - Stoner

About as good a one minute summation as one could ask for:

Hope his middle name isn't Thomas.

Yeah so am I, and I have only a slightly lower chance of getting one than Prince.

From Bill Madden's column today: So what happened with Bobby Valentine in Milwaukee? Turns out Bobby V never was the frontrunner to get the Brewers managing job ... and never got an offer. According to Brewer sources, Milwaukee owner Mark Attanasio, who had at first wanted an experienced "name" manager, was talked out of Valentine by people outside the organization - Peeps from other orgs? ... from MLB? ... from the Obama administration? It is uncertain anyway if Attanasio would have been willing to meet Valentine's salary demands, but in the meantime Roenicke apparently wowed the owner in his interview.

Casey Stengel managed Spahn's brief ML time with the Boston Braves prior to the war and at one point called him "gutless" or some similar term when a game he pitched wasn't going well. Stengel later told the joke on himself that if he was such a smart manager how come he referred to a future Bronze Star & Purple Heart winner as "gutless". Spahn of course famously got in a line of his own after finishing his career with Stengel's Mets and wondering why he only got to play for him both before and after he was a genius.

Collins is/was another get with a "fiery" rep. He got his first job in Houston, in part, as an antidote to the laid-back guy he replaced ... Art Howe! IIRC, some Houston fans told me the players - vets particularly - got sick of him over time and he was eventually replaced by the lower-key Larry Dierker. You get the opinion sometimes that the designated "leading" candidate is simply whichever guy the writers talked to or about most recently.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: According to the major leagues� Rule 8 (i) (2), any player who is released after midnight Aug. 31 and before the next opening day cannot sign a major league contract with the same team until May 15 the following year. He can sign a minor league contract, which Takahashi would probably not do, but cannot be called up to the majors until May 15.... The 8 (i) (2) rule, which has been in effect for many years, was designed to prevent teams from cutting players and then signing them back for less money. The full article Right. There also used to be a rule that prevented a club who lost a FA from re-signing that player until the following May but that one was done away with. Taka's situation is different in that his ML service time alone doesn't get him FA status so he had the wording put into his deal where he could not be offered arb and, in effect, had to be released unless they came to some sort of immediate new contract. That release is what gets him his FA status this year and therefore the rule against his old team kicks in. Normally first-year players don't have the pull to get that kind of language in their contracts but now several Japanese players have gone that route.

It starts with being unusual in that Taka was a rookie but at the same time had the power of a FA coming from Japan meaning he could have provisions put in his contract like the one where he couldn't be offered arbitration at the end of this season. The May 15th provision apparently deals not with a team being unable to re-sign their lost FA until that date but with a team being unable to sign a player that they had, in effect, released prior to the FA period - a rule which probably exists to lessen the temptation for a team to release an arb-eligible player or one with an option strictly for purposes of inking him to a lesser contract than he was otherwise headed for.

I assume there's no reason Mets cannot go after him again, if either party grows disenchanted witht he alternatives. Well, except for the rule that prevents the Mets - and only the Mets - from having to wait until after May 15th of next year to sign him again.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I still can't figure out why so may fans are going gaga over the possibility that Backman might be the Mets next manager. Because he's "fiery" and "gritty" - and everyone knows that having those traits are the two most important. Ollie wouldn't have refused his minor league assignment if Wally were managing; Beltran would have returned earlier from his injuries under a Wally regime; Wright's Ks will drop again because laid-back types like Art/Willie/Jerry kept forgetting to tell him to concentrate; all those Brooklyn players who played for him are now fundamentally sound and therefore will be ML stars within a few years; etc. Plus he learned from Davey so he "knows how to win". Those are all proven facts so there's no point in rebuttal here.

Edgar Renteria - option NOT picked up by Giants. I can't believe a team would cut loose its WS MVP. I mean what kind of .... oh, never mind.

Except that Oliver turned 40 last month and is a 60-70 IP/yr pitcher Takahashi is 4-1/2 years younger, nearly doubled D.O.'s IPs this season, plus has his Japanese track record to sell. The '10 & 8' guidelines I put up earlier are probably too high re-looking at them so maybe 8 & 6 are more like it. I'd be surprised if he accepts below 6-for-2 in lieu of testing the waters - although having him walk isn't the worst thing either.