Frayed Knot

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: It's not the Hall of His Family's Feelings, it's the Hall of Fame. Also why citing Gil's aging widow is poor ammunition for induction.

All I'm putting on you specifically is the part about being more disappointed with the news about Gil than about Jose. On that topic I couldn't possibly disagree more. The parts about framing how the debate (or lack thereof) has taken place are more general in nature but, I believe, quite accurate. Every year this topic comes up and every year (as it did with Rizzuto) the part about whether or not he actually deserves induction are skipped entirely. The only difference with Gil is that, with each short vote, there aren't legions yelling about the result could only be explained by either anti-Yankee bias or anti-Italian bias.

BOOOOOOO! In its way, more disappointing to mye than Reyes. Maybe I'm crazy. Well if it's any help, I think you are. The problem with this whole Gil debate is that it has taken on the same tenor as the ones for 'the Scooter' years ago - and by that I mean that there's really no debate at all. Instead, folks just start with the premise that his qualifications are an already-settled matter and therefore he's being screwed out of what everyone knows is an obvious no-brainer. So then the next logical step involves how one gord about getting him in: who's in charge of campaigning?, is there anyway to stack the committee?, is this the year the dunderheads wake up?, without ever stopping to consider that maybe, just maybe mind you, he's not in for perfectly legitimate reasons. I realize this puts me out of step with just about every Dodger/Met fan born since about 1920 and with all the NYC-area "news" people who are supposed to report the news without their cheerleader costumes on, but I'm totally indifferent to whether or not Gil ever gets in and would prefer to fall on the side of 'NOT' rather than justify another borderline candidate simply because he's our borderline candidate.

Laynce (learn to spell will ya) Nix - 350 ABs w/the Nats last season - to the Phils for two years pending a physical and all that jazz.

So [u:1fkkhc7f]IF[/u:1fkkhc7f] Sandy had to go-ahead to offer Jose a matching or near-matching deal (and he almost certainly did not but let's play along for a moment) to the one he reportedly has w/Florida, should he or shouldn't he? Pick the choice below which best describes your feelings on the matter.

In June 1997, the Mets were playing the Pirates on Fox, having just recently proven themselves a capable ballclub (over .500, in the Wild Card hunt, days after Mlicki beat the MFYs) and McCarver, still part of the family, was telling Joe Buck that we may be looking at the best all-around third baseman in the National League right now. Coincidentally, that was the last time the Pirates were on FOX.

He had 2, maybe 3 "good" years out of 8 in NY. More like a complete reversal of that ratio. In eight seasons as a Met: - the first six of which he hit a combined .296/.370/.450. That's starting right out of the box (or out of AA if you prefer) as a 21 y/o. And maybe he wasn't 21 at the time although that's hardly been established. - eliminate those rookie & soph seasons and years 3 thru 6 jump to .305/.389/.477 - go to the peak two seasons (#s 5 & 6) and you get: .313/.404/.520 w/69 & 67 XBHs in those two campaigns while walks were exceeding Ks - only the final two were sub-par, falling a long way to .277/.358/.432 And he played GG-caliber defense at two different positions, neither one of which were the one he played for much of the minors. At worst I'd say 2 great, 4 good, 2 lousy - and even those lousy ones were only so in comparison to what he already established and were really more like average-ish. Put it this way, for a several years span in the late '90s when Jeter was at his peak and when his favorite "Bernie Baseball" was roaming CF in the Bronx, Francesa routinely called Fonzie the best player in NYC The only problem with him was how suddenly and dramatically it ended.

One more crack at Olberman (whom I happen to adore on absolutely no levels but that's besides the point here) " ... when Jay Payton walloped a massive three-run bomb off Mo and all of a sudden the Yankees� insurmountable 6-0 lead was now a 6-5 heart-stopper" Am I off here in remembering JayPay's HR as a typical YSII special, aka: one which snuck over the RF fence some 300-plus-very-few feet away making KO's above description simply another example of him playing fast and loose with the facts in this story?

OK, here's what's unclear to me: Rubin - A change for this offseason as part of the new basic agreement made Heath Bell as well as Michael Cuddyer, Kelly Johnson, Ryan Madson, Francisco Rodriguez and Josh Willingham a different kind of Type A free agent. * Different type? As in, what, a better kind of Type A (Type A+ ?), a worse kind (Type A- ?) * Will these shadings within shadings continue or is this just a one-year transition kind of category? back to Rubin - The teams that lose those players as free agents, assuming arbitration had been offered, will get basically the same type of compensation they would under the old system. But the pick will not come from the signing team. * So will picks come from the signing team for different kinds of FAs? * And, if so, what will distinguish those mentioned above from FAs who do require direct picks from the signing team?

So when Olberman says that Abbott "had never faced Rivera or even seen his cutter" it looks like he meant other than the double he smacked off him 24 hours earlier. And even that is above and beyond the idiotic notion that this non-PH move somehow qualifies as one of the worst decisions in history and therefore taints the career of Valentine for all time to come. Yeah, that's some mighty fine research and perspective there ace!

- So under the new system a team losing a FA will gain picks but the signing team doesn't lose any? I hadn't realized that. - Kind of strange then that they seem to be employing a sot of hybrid of the old and new compensation systems rather than just simply waiting for next year to completely change over to the new. Under the totally new system it's probable that Heath Bell wouldn't generate any compensation because the Pads were almost certain to not offer him enough in arbitration (top 125 contracts in the league) to be rewarded with picks. - That the old system favored relievers when determining ranks within FA types (often to a ridiculous degree) was one of the main reasons to change things up. Those rankings also cover a two-year period which favors Reyes less than just looking at 2011 would. - The way Rubin kept using the "out of thin air" phrase made it seem like he thinks there's some sort of magic trick going on here.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Dierkes does some calls and reporting, as well as some half-decent market/roster analysis. Let's put it this way: if ESPN's other-peoples'-shoulders-standing reporters count as reputable press, so does Dierkes; at least he credits the original source without fail. Well, as much as I'm willing to blast the four-letter network and their penchant for breaking news that wasn't remotely their doing, Kurkjian, Starks, Olney, etc., are full-time and real reporters so it's not quite the same thing. Nothing wrong with what MLB-Rumors (or similar sites) does, it's just that the question about whether or not they're reliable depends on whose actual reporting they're quoting.

Edgy DC wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: Also has chosen to wear #25 for his "friend and old roommate" Tony Conigliaro (sez the NYTimes) although it's not clear exactly where their careers crossed paths. Apparently during an abortive comeback with the '76 Pads. Probably a ST deal because Tony C isn't listed as playing in '76 In fact, he had almost no minor league time at all. Dude played one season at Class A as an 18 y/o (in Wellsville, NY?? in 1963) and was in Fenway the next year hitting .290 w/45 XBHs He continued sailing along (minus that whole missed season and a half thing) knocking 160 HRs by age 25 before his career ended abruptly in the middle of 1971 following an off-season trade to the Angels. He doesn't re-surface again until four years later back with the BoSox, splitting time between Boston & Pawtucket which represented his only other official minor league service. He was 30 at that point and he never played again. 15 years after that he was dead.

the location of it's much better supposedly. Also the roof and hence lack of rainouts. Not that I think south Florida is ever going to be the greatest of sports locations for any sport -- but there was one year a few seasons back where somewhere around 1/4 of Marlins' home games were either: rained-out, had the start rain-delayed, or had a game rain-interrupted while in progress. Games are long enough in this sport w/o having those things thrown at you and even the most die-hard fans had to find it tough to commit to heading for the stadium where there's a decent chance the game either won't happen or will still be happening as you approach midnight. So, yeah, the novelty of the stadium itself will wear off but I figure it's still going to be a positive for them in the long run.

I don't think the site is "disreputable" but - and correct me if I'm wrong here - they're also not a place that does any actual reporting on their own. To me they're just a clearinghouse of sorts which gathers info, speculative or otherwise, and repackages it as the rumors they are. IOW, as a source they're as reliable as the sources they're quoting.

Bobby gets a two-year deal with the Sawx plus club options for 2014 & 2015 (making the odds of a Joe Maddon hiring next season not as easy as some Hub fans would like to believe). Also has chosen to wear #25 for his "friend and old roommate" Tony Conigliaro (sez the NYTimes) although it's not clear exactly where their careers crossed paths. TEAM2011 MgrSTATUS2012 MgrRED SOXTerry Francona - since 2004Option not picked up=#FF0000]Bobby Valentine - Signed thru 2013 + club options for '14 & '15YANXJoe Girardi - since 2008Signed thru 2013Same ORIOLESBuck Showalter - since 2010Signed thru 2013SameRAYSJoe Maddon - Since 2006Signed thru 2012SameBLUE JAYSJohn Farrell - Hired Oct �10Signed thru 2013SameTIGERSJim Leyland - Since 2006Signed thru 2012SameWHITE SOXOzzie Guillen - since 2004Contract terminated via mutual consentRobin Ventura - "multi-year" contractTWINSRon Gardenhire - Since 2002Signed thru 2013SameROYALSNed Yost - Since May �10Signed thru 2012SameINDIANSManny Acta - Since 2010Signed thru 2012 + 2013 optionSameRANGERSRon Washington - Since 2007Signed thru 2012SameMARINERSEric Wedge - first seasonSigned thru 2013SameA�sBob Melvin - hired June �11Signed thru 2014SameANGELSMike Scioscia - since 2000Signed thru 2018SameMETSTerry Collins - first seasonOption picked up thru 2013SameBRAVESFredi Gonzalez - first seasonSigned thru 2013SameMARLINSJack McKeon - since 6/20/11Not re-hired for 2012Ozzie Guillen - signed thru 2015NATIONALSDavey Johnson - took over 6/26/11Signed w/org but not as managerOption picked up for 2012 PHILLIESCharlie Manual - since 2005Signed thru 2013SameCUBSMike Quadde - since 2010Signed thru 1012 - Fired=#FF0000]Dale Sveum - Signed thru 2014BREWERSRon Roenicke - first seasonSigned thru 2012 + �13 optionSamePIRATESClint Hurdle - first seasonSigned thru 2013SameCARDINALSTony LaRussa - since 1996Retired=#FF0000]Mike Matheny - 2 yrs + 2014 optionREDSDusty Baker - since 2008Signed thru 2012SameASTROSBrad Mills - since 2010Signed thru 2012 w/option for �13SameDODGERSDon Mattingly - first seasonSigned thru 2013SameDIAMONDBACKSKirk Gibson - hired Aug �10Signed thru 2012 + �13 optionNew deal thru '14 w/options for '15 & '16GIANTSBruce Bochy - since 2007Signed thru 2012Extended thru 2013PADRESBud Black - since 2007Signed thru 2013 + options for �14 & �15SameROCKIESJim Tracy - since May �09Signed thru 2013Same

I gave the first ten minutes a whirl. Now I'm not a reality show guy anyway so I wasn't likely to be impressed going in ... but this was unwatchably bad shit. The intro introduced all the girls building up to Anna's entrance who was, not surprisingly, the last one introduced and is clearly the producer's designated star/queen bitch. All the girls were on pins and needles waiting to meet this Anna monster they had heard about but didn't know first-hand. But Anna's aged a bit and has put on a few to boot. And the others either weren't that great looking to begin with, or they looked unhealthy (too thin), or they were all tatted-up, or they were simply skanky. I then quickly lost track of who everybody was; the conversations were so bleeped-out that I couldn't follow that either; and they were trying to set the stage for personality clashes and promises of future fur-flying but I bailed long before it ever got there (assuming it did).

TransMonk wrote: Varitek? .264 vs. lefties last year. I don't watch the junior circuit enough to know anything about his defense. Beyond awful. He's essentially D-O-N-E

Catcher Chris Iannetta from the Rox to the Angels in exchange for pitcher Tyler Chatwood Jerry DiPoto making his mark.

Vic Sage wrote: Morris borderline? Really? yeah, really. i think he pitched well for a long time, but was rarely great. His ERA for his era was absolutely nothing special. He walked alot of guys and didn't have a great K/BB ratio. He was an accumulator more than a dominator and yet didn't hit any of the key milestones. But he's been on the ballot for over a decade and his vote count has increased from the 20% range to the 50% range, which is another indicator that "borderline" is the exactly appropriate label for his candidacy. In fact, i'd say it's generous and optimistic but possible. Voters are still suckers for "big wins". You know that all his peripheral (ie. non-W/L) numbers would have been better except that he pitched to the score all the time, don't you?

Raines

Edgy DC wrote: Finn not a fan , geez http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_the_bases/2011/11/five_thoughts_on_bobby_valenti.html That's some awful work organized kind of awfully. The thing about that piece is that he's reluctant to come right out and say that this will turn out to be a bad choice probably because he, like the non-believer who still attends church regularly, wants to hedge his bets just in case he's wrong. Instead he seems like one of the many who claims to know what Bobby is like by selected anecdotes he has read about from afar so, absent any real evidence of his unfitness, he'll throw those out so as to stake his claim early on. Glass & mustache reference? - Check. Compare an off-field marijuana story with recent in-dugout beer problems? - Hey, it kinda fits so I'll run with it. Smartest guy in the room stories? - Always easy to use plus has the added bonus of not having to prove it.

Just awaiting the details & confirmation on the Bobby BoSox deal - and on the details of Ventura's contract. Just five new managers this off-season: two "retreads" (BV & Ozzie), two "newbies" Ventura & Matheny), plus Sveum who is really a newbie although had previously managed briefly as an interim. TEAM2011 MgrSTATUS2012 MgrRED SOXTerry Francona - since 2004Option not picked up=#FF0000]Bobby Valentine - Details TBAYANXJoe Girardi - since 2008Signed thru 2013Same ORIOLESBuck Showalter - since 2010Signed thru 2013SameRAYSJoe Maddon - Since 2006Signed thru 2012SameBLUE JAYSJohn Farrell - Hired Oct �10Signed thru 2013SameTIGERSJim Leyland - Since 2006Signed thru 2012SameWHITE SOXOzzie Guillen - since 2004Contract terminated via mutual consentRobin Ventura - "multi-year" contractTWINSRon Gardenhire - Since 2002Signed thru 2013SameROYALSNed Yost - Since May �10Signed thru 2012SameINDIANSManny Acta - Since 2010Signed thru 2012 + 2013 optionSameRANGERSRon Washington - Since 2007Signed thru 2012SameMARINERSEric Wedge - first seasonSigned thru 2013SameA�sBob Melvin - hired June �11Signed thru 2014SameANGELSMike Scioscia - since 2000Signed thru 2018SameMETSTerry Collins - first seasonOption picked up thru 2013SameBRAVESFredi Gonzalez - first seasonSigned thru 2013SameMARLINSJack McKeon - since 6/20/11Not re-hired for 2012Ozzie Guillen - signed thru 2015NATIONALSDavey Johnson - took over 6/26/11Signed w/org but not as managerOption picked up for 2012 PHILLIESCharlie Manual - since 2005Signed thru 2013SameCUBSMike Quadde - since 2010Signed thru 1012 - Fired=#FF0000]Dale Sveum - Signed thru 2014BREWERSRon Roenicke - first seasonSigned thru 2012 + �13 optionSamePIRATESClint Hurdle - first seasonSigned thru 2013SameCARDINALSTony LaRussa - since 1996Retired=#FF0000]Mike Matheny - 2 yrs + 2014 optionREDSDusty Baker - since 2008Signed thru 2012SameASTROSBrad Mills - since 2010Signed thru 2012 w/option for �13SameDODGERSDon Mattingly - first seasonSigned thru 2013SameDIAMONDBACKSKirk Gibson - hired Aug �10Signed thru 2012 + �13 optionNew deal thru '14 w/options for '15 & '16GIANTSBruce Bochy - since 2007Signed thru 2012Extended thru 2013PADRESBud Black - since 2007Signed thru 2013 + options for �14 & �15SameROCKIESJim Tracy - since May �09Signed thru 2013Same

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Up and down so often his No. 6 jersey was re-issued to three other players during his tenure (Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Ramon Martinez), quite an accomplishment. Why are you making up names of three people who were never on the Mets?

Fixed it for you -- Sources connected with the show tell TMZ ... some of the staffers were persuaded for publicity purposes to say that they are now threatening to quit, because they can't handle Anna's insane behavior [and that the] show execs want everyone to believe they are trying to contain Anna.