batmagadanleadoff

Alex Cora wouldn't have dropped any of those muffed balls.

Thurman Munson?

Maybe all that happened is that Beltran hit two HR's: two HR's that (by the way) wouldn't have cleared the outfield wall at Citi Field.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ankeil flashed the thumbs-up as the stretcher went off the field, reminding me of a time when Lee Mazzilli did the same thing once. I remember thinking that Maz was somewhat embarrassed to be put on a stretcher and the injury couldn't have been that bad since he looked like he wanted to get up off it and walk to the dugout. What I don't recall was when this happened and how he got injured. I imagine a collison with another player. Anyone? In 1979, Mazzilli was taken off the field in a stretcher after colliding with Dan Norman in Los Angeles, while chasing Davey Lopes' fly ball. Maz was out cold for a few minutes; Lopes was able to round the bases and score on an inside the park HR. This game was played shortly after the 1979 All Star Game.

metirish wrote: Oliie "demoted" to the bullpen. ...as the guy who comes in when the Mets are down by six runs, I hope.

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":c8zr2aoi] FOX SPORTS, Ken Rosenthal, 5/1: Minaya ... adds that two new Mets, outfielder Gary Sheffield and infielder Alex Cora, provide more of an edge.... He also believes that Sheffield and Cora, two veterans who have played for World Series champions, can make the Mets more stout. "When you add guys like Sheffield, guys like Cora, they give you something different," Minaya says. "We needed that. I think it will pay off in the end."[/quote:c8zr2aoi] I'll pass on Sheffield for now. But Alex Cora sucks. And it's sad that a team can't dip into its own farm system to pluck that Cora like talent from a young twentysomething who presumably, would also come with some upside, at least enough to perhaps one day develop into someone as expendable as Luis Lopez. Fman99 May 04 2009 01:11 PM I miss Phil Hartman. metsguyinmichigan May 04 2009 01:40 PM Remember at all times that sports writers are pack animals. They travel together, think alike, and in a market like New York they do not want to get beat on something or perceived as getting beat on something. They write to impress each other. That is why you see virtually the same column written over as the story of the week. Last week it was "Mets didn't include enough history" template, and this week it's the "Mets lack heart/edge" template. bmfc1 May 04 2009 01:42 PM "Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge I'm trying not to lose my head, ah huh-huh-huh It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder How I keep from going under It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder How I keep from going under" Nymr83 May 04 2009 01:45 PM ]That is why you see virtually the same column written over as the story of the week. Last week it was "Mets didn't include enough history" template, and this week it's the "Mets lack heart/edge" template. When can we have the "Omar is a genius and the Mets are the best team ever" template back? metsguyinmichigan May 04 2009 02:05 PM ="Nymr83"]]That is why you see virtually the same column written over as the story of the week. Last week it was "Mets didn't include enough history" template, and this week it's the "Mets lack heart/edge" template. When can we have the "Omar is a genius and the Mets are the best team ever" template back? Convince one of them to write that, and the rest will follow. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 04 2009 02:16 PM What'll be news is when Omar does an interview without saying something dumb or embarrassing. G-Fafif May 04 2009 02:57 PM I encounter Omar's quotes and I can hear Don Rickles responding. "Omar, just smile and help K-Rod hold up the uniform shirt for the cameras. They don't pay you to talk, dummy." soupcan May 04 2009 03:03 PM ="Fman99":945ailio]I miss Phil Hartman.[/quote:945ailio] Word. metirish May 04 2009 03:06 PM ="soupcan":3k2i4g3f]="Fman99":3k2i4g3f]I miss Phil Hartman.[/quote:3k2i4g3f] Word.[/quote:3k2i4g3f] Me too G-Fafif May 04 2009 03:17 PM Took me a while...heart...Hartman. The only baseball connection I could make was his recurring reporting on Weekend Update that unfortunately George Steinbrenner was still alive. Heart...Hartman -- now I get it. And yes, word. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 04 2009 03:48 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 05 2009 12:52 PM ="G-Fafif":22bu8wau]Took me a while...heart...Hartman. The only baseball connection I could make was his recurring reporting on Weekend Update that unfortunately George Steinbrenner was still alive. Heart...Hartman -- now I get it. And yes, word.[/quote:22bu8wau] That, and the SNL skit involving PH in which he plays the Managing Editor of "Sassy." Various hot male actors of the time-- Jason Priestley, Christian Slater, etc.-- are brought up, and his reaction is always some variation on calling them "sassy." What is "sassy"? The SNL players never explain. Really, it's the same with edge/heart/mojo/swagger, as regards American team sports. It's been said (and I'm paraphrasing, obviously) that G-d is what humans call the unknowable. In a kinda-sorta related way-- if an infinitely-hackier milieu-- it seems to be the name that sportswriters give to those vagaries of chance which, say, deliver St. Louis a World Series championship over more talented Mets and Tigers squads. Why did the Cards win? They hung tough, they hit when it counted... they had pluck, edge, love for the game. It's like luck, but with more of a narrative forced on it. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 05 2009 12:39 PM So... Beltran. Two homers. In key spots, both. This count as edge? soupcan May 05 2009 12:47 PM I don't know. I guess so. This kind of crap always bothers me though - did Beltran just gut it out and focus more and just decide 'damn it, I'm taking control of this game!' or did Vasquez just run out of gas and start to make bad pitches? The Braves took an early lead and then stopped hitting (sound familiar?). So did the Mets overcome or did the Braves choke? batmagadanleadoff May 05 2009 12:50 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 05 2009 12:52 PM Maybe all that happened is that Beltran hit two HR's: two HR's that (by the way) wouldn't have cleared the outfield wall at Citi Field. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 05 2009 12:52 PM It's obvious Beltran is hot and he got some pitches and didn;t miss 'em. What was a tiny bit more encouraging was seeing Wright hammer one and even Reyes get a solid hit and a few swipes. Anyone remember Reyes? holychicken May 05 2009 01:41 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1musvx31]Anyone remember Reyes?[/quote:1musvx31] Sorry, too busy hating on Wright to think about hating on Reyes right now. However, I reserve the right to remember and hate Reyes once Wright gets and stays out of his funk. Ashie62 May 05 2009 02:23 PM Can we sign Frankens' Stuart Smalley" as morale officer

From Jerry Grote's Facebook page: Jerry Grote wroteon February 20, 2009 at 9:47pm Gary Balbaugh (San Antonio, TX) wrote at 9:53pm Did you play with Wilbur Huckle? He ran for president. He is my wife's cousin. Played with and against Wilbur in high school in San Antonio. He went to Harlandale and I was at MacArthur. We played on one all-star team together but can't remember which one or which year. Jerry

Ouch!

="SteveJRogers":2iazl18l] Not really, in late 2006 the Mets were starting to show signs that they really were a "paper champion" and a team that couldn't take a punch. It would be proven in the NLCS that year. This year's round of "Mets have no heart" is a culmination of the Mets not getting the job done in the aforementioned NLCS, the worst choke job in the history of professional sports, and another choke job last year.[/quote:2iazl18l] But do you believe all that? And does it mean that a team that doesn't get to the WS has no heart, even when their season ends in the 7th game of the LCS? TheOldMole May 03 2009 11:43 AM The worst choke job in the history of professional sports? What about Sonny Liston in Lewiston, Maine? SteveJRogers May 03 2009 12:28 PM FINE, in team season sports Kong76 May 03 2009 12:45 PM SJJ: The Mets haven't showed any kind of killer instinct since, but rather have been acting like the playoffs are entitled to them <<< Steve, you're just as bad as the guys who get paid by the papers here. How do you measure acting entitled? You (not you, I mean everyone) can get away with lack of killer instinct (although I'm not sure how that's measured either) because they totally blew it late the last two seasons. But acting en- titled? How do you act entitled on a baseball diamond, in interviews, etc. to the point that one can say, "that team looks like it thinks it's entitled?" Phooey, it's just another annoying buzz phrase when you break it down. SteveJRogers May 03 2009 01:19 PM Delgado's "sometimes we get bored" comment in 2007 is a prime example. There are times where it does seem in interviews, and reactions on the field that this team thinks it is the best team out there, but their play doesn't mesaure up to that. Or they act like the bully in the playground, where you just show that you are capable of fighting back, and they back off. Kong76 May 03 2009 01:43 PM I don't remember the bored quote, but I certainly believe you. I still think that when you get into "seems" and reading of "reactions" and derive entitlement it becomes a little bit of a stretch but at least you have a quote to leap from and that's more of an explanation I could get from a source like Wallyworld, et al. Edgy DC May 03 2009 02:32 PM ="SteveJRogers":1flq6nbx]="Ceetar":1flq6nbx]="Edgy DC":1flq6nbx]I'm still waiting for the article that says, "You know, it's a good thing this team is winning, because apart from that, they have no heart."[/quote:1flq6nbx] Never going to happen. When the Mets start winning, people will be falling over themselves to declare what it was that gave the Mets heart.[/quote:1flq6nbx] Not really, in late 2006 the Mets were starting to show signs that they really were a "paper champion" and a team that couldn't take a punch. It would be proven in the NLCS that year. This year's round of "Mets have no heart" is a culmination of the Mets not getting the job done in the aforementioned NLCS, the worst choke job in the history of professional sports, and another choke job last year. Despite the use of small sample size stats, this is really the same tune that has been said about the franchise since 2007. You can actually pinpoint where it all fell apart to the sweep at Atlanta just before the trade deadline in 2006. Pretty much the last "important" games the Mets dominated and showed that they could be "championship material." The Mets haven't showed any kind of killer instinct since, but rather have been acting like the playoffs are entitled to them, that they can just throw out their equipment on the field and beat anyone.[/quote:1flq6nbx] This is about 93% wrong. And "heart" /= "killer instinct"

Benjamin Grimm wrote: No matter what, I say Santana should pitch tomorrow, on his normal rest. Let Maine and Hernandez wait. I agree. That's how the Mets used Seaver, even when Koosman, Gentry and Matlack were the next scheduled pitchers.

="Frayed Knot":2fu07wvp]That the backup middle infielder has the lowest (or among the lowest) RC/27, ... or OPS, or VORP, or M-O-U-S-E as compared to the regulars shouldn't exactly surprise anyone. My point in starting the thread was that there seems to be far too much hand-wringing over the fact that he's even playing (because of short-term injury) or that he's batting 2nd. Look at it this way: he's not sucking NOW, and as long as he continues not to suck I see it as a case of the backup getting rewarded for doing exactly what one would hope he'd do when he was pressed into service: getting on base and playing decent D. No one (as far as I know) is trying to make the case for starting him on a regular basis. Indeed if he winds up playing full time it means that something else has gone wrong that'll make the exact lineup order seem trivial. In the meantime, a few games here and there keeps him fresh so that Jerry won't have reservations about sitting Reyes for a day if/when he shows the need.[/quote:2fu07wvp] Nice post. I agree. But what did you mean here: ="Frayed Knot":2fu07wvp]No, not Phil Rizzutto's wife - but that guy who seemingly caused so much teeth-grinding in the IGT.[/quote:2fu07wvp] And who is "that guy"? If it's me, I'd like to know what I did that half the thread didn't do before me? And if it's some other guy, I'd also like to know so I can heap my own brand of Cora-related abuse. But seriously, if there was a problem with my Cora joke, someone should explain instead of labeling the post as senseless without ever explaining just what it was that made it senseless, and then throwing in some junk about being circle jerked. Edgy DC May 02 2009 12:53 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":3dkpmnh7]But when I piled on with an off the cuff joke, I was seemingly required to prove my post with the same rigidness and exactitude that one would demand from a physicist substantiating a scientific theory.[/quote:3dkpmnh7] Do you really want to continue to complain about me picking on you? Kong76 May 02 2009 12:57 PM Jeter does seem to have a shit-eating grin for just about every occasion, doesn't he. Frayed Knot May 02 2009 03:41 PM ]And who is "that guy"? Cora Mendoza Line May 02 2009 05:01 PM ]That the backup middle infielder has the lowest (or among the lowest) RC/27, ... or OPS, or VORP, or M-O-U-S-E as compared to the regulars shouldn't exactly surprise anyone. I like to think (maybe I'm wrong) that even the "Cora sucks" crowd recognizes that Cora is not measurably worse than most utility infielders, and that as long as That Guy Who Used to Suck but Suddenly Stopped Sucking is hurt, Cora's the only choice. The original teeth-gnashing was about Manuel going by the book and batting Cora - the classic "productive out" guy - in the #2 spot instead of sticking him in the #8 hole and saving all the early spots in the order for players who get "productive base hits." Rockin' Doc May 02 2009 06:11 PM Personally, I think the play of Alex Cora is far down on the list of problems with the Mets team. G-Fafif May 02 2009 07:49 PM Cora > Cairo MFS62 May 03 2009 04:58 PM Well, according to Manuel, Cora and Sheffield have an "edge".* Later *= from yesterday's early edition Daily News Story. Don't know if the link is still around. Benjamin Grimm May 03 2009 05:08 PM Does that mean they drive a Ford? Centerfield May 04 2009 06:48 AM In case there's any confusion about my point, let me clarify: 1. Alex Cora sucks (career OPS of .662). 2. Guys who suck should hit lower in the batting order, not second. 3. If Manuel batted him second because he knew it was a short-term lineup change, and because he had a hunch about him, so be it. If Manuel batted him second because he's a "guy who knows how to handle the bat making him ideal for the #2 hole", then that's dumb. 4. We've had an idiot manager who subscribed to the latter theory so I'd like not to deal with that again. (BTW, Miguel Cairo's career OPS is .670) Vic Sage May 04 2009 08:41 AM Centerfield (like famed forumite "13" before him) is, as almost always, correct. wow. tortured syntax. i think i sprained something. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 04 2009 09:37 AM ="Frayed Knot":3drom80m]That the backup middle infielder has the lowest (or among the lowest) RC/27, ... or OPS, or VORP, or M-O-U-S-E as compared to the regulars shouldn't exactly surprise anyone.[/quote:3drom80m] Fair point. Although the fact that he brings less speed to the table than, say, Brian Schneider IS a bit of a surprise. (Is it possible that some of the forum complaints might be colored a little by post hoc off-season whinging... namely, about the fact that there were other, seemingly better options for this role on the market? I know my feelings have a little of this to 'em.) Nymr83 May 04 2009 11:09 AM ]He's a great pro.......seriously I don't know why he upsets people(nymr) so much. it upsets me to see him bat 2nd, i dont think i ever said he shouldnt be a backup MI. edit, so i checked to make sure i wasnt remembering wrong and i wasn't. in the 5/1 IGT i said: ]Cora shouldnt be batting 2nd, drop him down between tatis and santos and move everyone else up a spot. a day or two earlier Manuel decided to bunt (what else is new) and i said i didn't like it but that if you're going to do it i guess Cora is the one to do it with (citing his statistics). god knows how you're calling me out here.

Alex Cora sucks. You could look it up. He sucks so bad that his crappy 2009 line of .240/.355/.320 (and did you catch Cora's SLG. % at 30 pct. pts < his OBA?) is better than his historical norm. Only one other Met in yesterday's lineup (Reyes) has a 2009 RC27 that's lower than Cora's and anyone that doubts that Reyes will pass Cora in that department by season's end can make a bet with me. There didn't seem to be a problem when the first four posters recognized Cora's suckiness. But when I piled on with an off the cuff joke, I was seemingly required to prove my post with the same rigidness and exactitude that one would demand from a physicist substantiating a scientific theory. Alex Cora sucks and I don't see the big deal in recognizing it. This is a Mets forum and that's what we seem to do. And having said that, I hope Cora plays over his head for the rest of the season because a team needs for some of its lesser and fringe players to have career years if its going to win 95 or 100 games. The Wrights and Santanas, on their own, won't get you 95 wins even if they play like MVP's.

So what are the odds Cora gets on base in his next at-bat, being that he walked his first time up? He's due for some out-making.

="metsguyinmichigan":1n9i4k0g]="batmagadanleadoff":1n9i4k0g]Well, I'll root for Cora wherever he bats so long as he's wearing the Mets colors, but ideally, Cora would be batting for any of the other 29 MLB teams, preferably the Phillies.[/quote:1n9i4k0g] People who don't wear Mets colors should be sho --- oh wait. Never mind.[/quote:1n9i4k0g] You shouldn't be batting second either.

Well, I'll root for Cora wherever he bats so long as he's wearing the Mets colors, but ideally, Cora would be batting for any of the other 29 MLB teams, preferably the Phillies.

Would it ease your pain if instead, I wrote that Cora shouldn't be batting second because Cora sucks? Or maybe I'm the dull guy and I need to preface all my joke posts with "This is a joke!" (Merged from Mayday2, 5/1/2009)

="Edgy DC":3bjn7hh5]="batmagadanleadoff":3bjn7hh5]Me? Why would I be wounded?[/quote:3bjn7hh5] I don't feel like getting circle-jerked today.[/quote:3bjn7hh5] Circle jerked? Wounded? Coming from the guy who was also "insulted" and "offended" because I'm not entirely thrilled with the JR Routnda? I think I've posted enough here to demonstrate that I understand that the odds of getting a heads on a balanced coin flip is still 50% even if the last 20 flips also came up heads. ="Edgy DC":3bjn7hh5]="batmagadanleadoff":3bjn7hh5]But can't I poke some fun at Cora?[/quote:3bjn7hh5] I didn't tell you what you can and can't do.[/quote:3bjn7hh5] So then what was your problem with my Cora joke? Edgy DC May 01 2009 03:32 PM I don't know what in particular you're quoting from me. I don't see a joke in "... which makes it likelier than usual that Cora will suck today." I see an assertion that doesn't make any sense. If that simply means I'm dull, I'm sorry. batmagadanleadoff May 01 2009 03:34 PM Would it ease your pain if instead, I wrote that Cora shouldn't be batting second because Cora sucks? Or maybe I'm the dull guy and I need to preface all my joke posts with "This is a joke!" (Merged from Mayday2, 5/1/2009) Edgy DC May 01 2009 03:37 PM Ease my pain? I think I need to bail right now. Edgy DC May 01 2009 03:40 PM Seriously, nothing and nobody is making sense to me today. I think I need a liedown. batmagadanleadoff May 01 2009 03:43 PM Well, I'll root for Cora wherever he bats so long as he's wearing the Mets colors, but ideally, Cora would be batting for any of the other 29 MLB teams, preferably the Phillies. metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 03:49 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":3vrzbud6]Well, I'll root for Cora wherever he bats so long as he's wearing the Mets colors, but ideally, Cora would be batting for any of the other 29 MLB teams, preferably the Phillies.[/quote:3vrzbud6] People who don't wear Mets colors should be sho --- oh wait. Never mind. batmagadanleadoff May 01 2009 03:55 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1n9i4k0g]="batmagadanleadoff":1n9i4k0g]Well, I'll root for Cora wherever he bats so long as he's wearing the Mets colors, but ideally, Cora would be batting for any of the other 29 MLB teams, preferably the Phillies.[/quote:1n9i4k0g] People who don't wear Mets colors should be sho --- oh wait. Never mind.[/quote:1n9i4k0g] You shouldn't be batting second either.

Me? Why would I be wounded? But can't I poke some fun at Cora?

="Edgy DC":2fpvuz9g]That doesn't make any sense.[/quote:2fpvuz9g] Especially when you go out of your way to nitpick at my posts. Edgy DC May 01 2009 03:15 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 03:18 PM Give me a break. You're wounded? Nitpicking itsn't responding to the entirety of your post. batmagadanleadoff May 01 2009 03:16 PM Me? Why would I be wounded? But can't I poke some fun at Cora? Edgy DC May 01 2009 03:18 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":dvo43tz6]Me? Why would I be wounded?[/quote:dvo43tz6] I don't feel like getting circle-jerked today. ="batmagadanleadoff":dvo43tz6]But can't I poke some fun at Cora?[/quote:dvo43tz6] I didn't tell you what you can and can't do. batmagadanleadoff May 01 2009 03:25 PM ="Edgy DC":3bjn7hh5]="batmagadanleadoff":3bjn7hh5]Me? Why would I be wounded?[/quote:3bjn7hh5] I don't feel like getting circle-jerked today.[/quote:3bjn7hh5] Circle jerked? Wounded? Coming from the guy who was also "insulted" and "offended" because I'm not entirely thrilled with the JR Routnda? I think I've posted enough here to demonstrate that I understand that the odds of getting a heads on a balanced coin flip is still 50% even if the last 20 flips also came up heads. ="Edgy DC":3bjn7hh5]="batmagadanleadoff":3bjn7hh5]But can't I poke some fun at Cora?[/quote:3bjn7hh5] I didn't tell you what you can and can't do.[/quote:3bjn7hh5] So then what was your problem with my Cora joke? Edgy DC May 01 2009 03:32 PM I don't know what in particular you're quoting from me. I don't see a joke in "... which makes it likelier than usual that Cora will suck today." I see an assertion that doesn't make any sense. If that simply means I'm dull, I'm sorry. batmagadanleadoff May 01 2009 03:34 PM Would it ease your pain if instead, I wrote that Cora shouldn't be batting second because Cora sucks? Or maybe I'm the dull guy and I need to preface all my joke posts with "This is a joke!" (Merged from Mayday2, 5/1/2009) Edgy DC May 01 2009 03:37 PM Ease my pain? I think I need to bail right now. Edgy DC May 01 2009 03:40 PM Seriously, nothing and nobody is making sense to me today. I think I need a liedown. batmagadanleadoff May 01 2009 03:43 PM Well, I'll root for Cora wherever he bats so long as he's wearing the Mets colors, but ideally, Cora would be batting for any of the other 29 MLB teams, preferably the Phillies. metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 03:49 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":3vrzbud6]Well, I'll root for Cora wherever he bats so long as he's wearing the Mets colors, but ideally, Cora would be batting for any of the other 29 MLB teams, preferably the Phillies.[/quote:3vrzbud6] People who don't wear Mets colors should be sho --- oh wait. Never mind. batmagadanleadoff May 01 2009 03:55 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1n9i4k0g]="batmagadanleadoff":1n9i4k0g]Well, I'll root for Cora wherever he bats so long as he's wearing the Mets colors, but ideally, Cora would be batting for any of the other 29 MLB teams, preferably the Phillies.[/quote:1n9i4k0g] People who don't wear Mets colors should be sho --- oh wait. Never mind.[/quote:1n9i4k0g] You shouldn't be batting second either.

Regression to the mean.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: ="Nymr83"]]Reyes, ss Cora, 2b Murphy, lf Beltran, cf Wright, 3b Church, rf Tatis, 1b Santos, c Pelfrey, rhp Cora shouldnt be batting 2nd, drop him down between tatis and santos and move everyone else up a spot. I don't disagree strongly, but you said the same thing the other day yet Cora went out and had a very good day at the plate. ... which makes it likelier than usual that Cora will suck today. Not a good thing because Cora usually sucks, anyway.

="batmagadanleadoff":2xe7aylf]="metsguyinmichigan":2xe7aylf]"Citi Field - the not-so-impressive new park ...[/quote:2xe7aylf] I think that, regrettably, there is some truth there. Citi Field is very impressive when compared to a nearly 50 year old Shea Stadium, but not very impressive when compared to the other new baseball stadiums.[/quote:2xe7aylf] ="Benjamin Grimm":2xe7aylf]I skip over his column every day in the print edition of the Inquirer. That paper uses a lot of column inches to mock the Mets and their fans. I've learned to not even skim it. Philadelphia is a very low-class sports town. I should move.[/quote:2xe7aylf] I should've added that I also agree that the article, as a whole, is an embarassing piece of junk. That is, if Philly fans have enough sense and selfe-awareness to be embarrased. metirish May 01 2009 10:28 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 10:34 AM ="soupcan":rv8zmkjz]I think its a craptastic column as well, but what did he write that's not true?[/quote:rv8zmkjz] I think the way that it was written is what's shitty about it , the mocking tone to it and so on... LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 10:31 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 10:36 AM ="metirish":ionzsggb]For those that have been to both CF and CBP which would you say is more impressive?[/quote:ionzsggb] Push. Same HOK/Populous design (wide concourses, retro-y touches). Aramark-run concessions with a soupcon of genuine local fare (i.e., their ice cream is Turkey Hill, their cheesesteaks are from two actual well-known local purveyors of same, Rick's Steaks/Tony Luke's). Their park isn't exactly set flush into a city block either-- it's in a Meadowlands-y complex at the south end of Broad St (right by the Eagles/Sixers/Flyers stuff). The club did seem to put a lot of attention into acknowledging its history (the restaurant is "Harry the K's," pictures abound, caps from EVERY era of Phillies-dom available at their New Era shop), so that might give the Bad Guys the slight overall edge. (Oh, and on a tangential, Paul Lukasesque note-- those cream-colored red-and-blue trimmed alternate home unis they brought out last year? Bee-YOO-tiful.) Edgy DC May 01 2009 10:33 AM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 11:16 AM ="soupcan"]I think its a craptastic column as well, but what did he write that's not true? I'll bite. ]We love to hate each other, sure Speak for yourself, hatemonger. ]You probably saw most of it on TV since you didn't have much else to do after September. New Yorkers have plenty to do after September. A lot of them live in and around New York, you see. ]You remember all the pageantry that goes along with being a world champion, right? No? Well, maybe you have some faded pictures of 1986 in a shoebox somewhere. Yeah, or a Giants Super Bowl. ]This might be overstepping our relationship, but can we tell you something? You guys seem awfully haggard. It looks like you haven't slept much lately. Guess choking away two straight division titles will keep you up at night. Well, one, fans didn't choke away anything. Two, it's impossible to not sleep since last September. And that isn't "lately." ]It has to be brutal to be a Mets fan. The Fightin's got off to a typically slow start and still managed to finish the first month of the season with an 11-9 record. That's where they were at this point last year - two games over .500 - and we all know how 2008 worked out for the Phils. The contextualizing and rationalizing about the Phils doesn't support the thesis sentence. ]Meanwhile, the Mets enter the series having lost seven of their last 10. They're three games under .500 and looking sloppier every day. Oh, here's where he supports it. I guess he needs those paragraph breaks to keep the inches flowing. Um, life is not losing seven of ten all year every year for Met fans. ]Their season certainly hasn't gone over well with the New York media. Stories about the Mets are frequently peppered with words such as "pressure" and "anxiety" and "failure." And the headlines are even more vicious: True enough. People don't write shit in Phillie papers I guess. ]Things have gotten so ugly that David Wright has been openly booed at Citi Field. (A little advice: that kind of behavior is so unbecoming. You should try to be more like us - cool and calm and supportive.) Here he even knows he's full of shit. ]On top of all that, you're forced to pay outrageous prices to watch bad baseball at Citi Field Not forced to do anything. ]- the not-so-impressive new park that the team plunked down next to a shanty town of shabby auto body shops. It's not like that site was scouted. It's 35 feet from where Shea was. Really, is the Iron Triangle an issue to New York Met fans at all? At least bring up the planes from LaGuardia or something. ]Even visitors from Detroit would find that area crummy. Yeah, because a lot of tourists stroll around there, to the express embarassment of Met fans, who lay awake wishing they had a city free of blight like Philadelphia. It's all kinda sorta true is no excuse for douchecraft. soupcan May 01 2009 11:10 AM 'Douchecraft' - I like it. Nymr83 May 01 2009 11:33 AM ]On top of all that, you're forced to pay outrageous prices to watch bad baseball at Citi Field - the not-so-impressive new park that the team plunked down next to a shanty town of shabby auto body shops. Even visitors from Detroit would find that area crummy I got in Monday for $11, I sat in seats better than the entire upper deck at Shea, I was mostly impressed by the ballpark, and I'd rather have a shanty town than have the government using its eminent domain power to tear down businesses. And there are no "visitors from Detroit" to find the area crummy because the people who leave Detroit don't go back, making them "migrants from Detroit who chose the big apple over your crappy city" LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 11:46 AM ="soupcan"]'Douchecraft' - I like it. That baiting crap in ink With that peculiar stink Your payslip should be pink It's... douchecraft... metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 11:51 AM I won't get to Citi until the first week in August, but I did get to a game at Cit Bank Park a couple years ago. We went to PNC in the same weekend, and I thought it was far better. We had a double header, so there was plenty of time to walk around and check it out. On the plus side, the giant bonging Liberty Bell is a nice touch. I found several statues, though the Robin Roberts one is a little strange. Greg Luzinski has a BBQ stand and was there to sign autographs and pose for photos. I found some neat mosaics of players and some other nice touches. On the negative side, there's no focal point to the thing when you drive up -- no "front door," if you will. It looked like a jumble of bricks and black steel piled in the middle of a parking lot. It's an ugly "building." Say what you want about Citi, but it's beautiful and orderly from the outside, with the brick arches. It looks like what it's supposed look like. soupcan May 01 2009 12:08 PM Dude...? Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 12:15 PM Time for pitchforks and torches. G-Fafif May 01 2009 12:17 PM Do sportswriters down there get fired for displaying too much professinalism? Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 12:21 PM Seems that way. I think they're instructed to pander to the fans' baser instincts. They have to sell papers, you know. metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 12:45 PM ="soupcan"] Dude...? I know. Bastard Luzinski called on his minions to refuse to sell me a pulled pork sandwich or sign an autograph or pose with the photo until they slammed on my head what in hindsight appears to be a Phillies cap. I wasn't gonna do it, but the pulled pork smelled really good. Plus, I was undercover. Shhh. HahnSolo May 01 2009 12:46 PM ="G-Fafif":28rkd6zs]Do sportswriters down there get fired for displaying too much professinalism?[/quote:28rkd6zs] It is the city that made Stephen A. Smith "famous". And MGIM, wtf? Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 12:49 PM You sold your soul for pulled pork??? seawolf17 May 01 2009 12:56 PM Wait, WHAT? I'll get the roasting spit ready. You posted the picture yourself... the least you could have done was photoshopped that out. Bad mgim. Better or worse that Steve professing his love for the Yankees? I say worse. This is an actual rival. soupcan May 01 2009 12:58 PM WORSE! String him up! metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 01:00 PM It was really, really good pulled pork. That, and I have a lot of caps. I usually wear the home team, if I have it, unless they're playing the Mets. The exception is the Yankees. So, um, what do you guys think about Jerry's decision to pinch-hit for Castro this week? I'm a little concerned about Wright's strikeouts. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 02:53 PM ="metsguyinmichigan"]It was really, really good pulled pork. That, and I have a lot of caps. I usually wear the home team, if I have it, unless they're playing the Mets. The exception is the Yankees. So, um, what do you guys think about Jerry's decision to pinch-hit for Castro this week? I'm a little concerned about Wright's strikeouts. "Usually wear... the..." WhatwhatWHAT? So you're not a traitor... you're a mercenary? (And a cheap one at that!) [Plus, MGIM, the pulled pork isn't soul-selling-great. Now, the Tony Luke's roast pork Italian (roast pork, sharp provolone, and sauteed broccoli rabe)... maybe.] Swan Swan H May 01 2009 02:55 PM I saw Tony Luke on a Food Network show. Phillies Lovin' Douchebag, with the emphasis on the 'bag. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 03:13 PM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 03:17 PM ="Swan Swan H"]I saw Tony Luke on a Food Network show. Phillies Lovin' Douchebag, with the emphasis on the 'bag. Saw the same show... and have been to the mothership (went to school in Philly)... and hells yes, he is-- the entire place is plastered with starf*cking photos and the like, and both he and the rest of the management (mostly extended family) carry themselves with a pronounced "F*ck you-- buy something" charm. (The guy who owns Geno's-- of "English-only" fame-- is cut from the same cloth.) That said, the sandwiches are delectable. And there's a place around here on 9th near the Port Authority-- Shorty's, I think it's called-- that used to be a Tony Luke's demi-franchise, but had to change the name due to ownership issues; the sandwiches, though, are straight out of the TL playbook. (Also, good beer selection.) http://www.tonylukes.com/menu.htm The Schmitter-- also worth a stab (and, shortly thereafter, stabbing pains up and down your left arm). themetfairy May 01 2009 03:15 PM That thing probably has more calories than I eat in an entire day.... seawolf17 May 01 2009 06:56 PM Focus, people! Focus! His hat! Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 07:00 PM Like I said, pitchforks and torches. And pulled pork. He may be a Mets guy in Michigan, but when he's in Pennsylvania he's apparently a Phillies guy. metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 07:03 PM No wait, that Schmitter looks pretty good. Do they sell those in the stadium? We went to Pats, the epicenter for all things cheesesteak, earlier in the day. Anybody ever go to Pat's? Oh, wait a second. Did you think that was me in the hat? No, no, I'm the guy in the sun glasses going hatless. There was a time when I kinda looked a little like Luzinski. People would pass me in the concourse saying, "Hey! Bull!" and "Bull, why are you wearing a Mets jacket, Mets socks and Mets crocks?" soupcan May 01 2009 08:37 PM LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 08:55 PM Yes, they do serve the Schmitter there. Also, we win. WOOT! Back to serious business... what shall be MGIM's penalty? There's got to be some sort of penance thing here, no? (And hat off to Soup. Nicely turned.) metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 08:59 PM ="soupcan"] Bad ass! Edgy DC May 01 2009 09:37 PM I think I just realized that the Capital City Goofball is somehow descended from both Mr. Met and the Phanatic. Edgy DC May 01 2009 09:42 PM And by the by, I guess we're supposed to be all "in your face, phuckin' phils and phils phans!" and spoilin some shit, but the real enemum --- to Mets fans and Phils phans --- is this Gonzalez guy, whose allegiance to the Phils and contempt for the Mets is all bullshit, but he's collecting a check for stocking the flame. Number 6 May 01 2009 11:44 PM I honestly never knew that Phillies fans cared so much about the Mets, but they've certainly come out of the woodwork since the Series. I've never really given much of a damn about the Phillies, and their victory has only increased the damn-giving quotient slightly. Maybe I care a tiny bit now, but they'll suck again before long, and go back to being just another team. Personally, I'd rather this "rivalry" be defined by schmucks like this guy howling into a wind tunnel on one side, followed by disinterest at the other end, so I'll keep any further thoughts to myself. Benjamin Grimm May 02 2009 03:47 AM Yes, it's been a one-sided rivalry for a long time. I was surprised, when I moved to the Philly suburbs back in 1988, to find so much hatred for the Mets. Philadelphia also has a one-sided rivalry with the Eagles/Cowboys. And in both cases, they have no idea. People here are surprisingly provincial. metsguyinmichigan May 02 2009 07:57 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 02 2009 08:59 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]Yes, they do serve the Schmitter there. Also, we win. WOOT! Back to serious business... what shall be MGIM's penalty? There's got to be some sort of penance thing here, no? (And hat off to Soup. Nicely turned.) I throw myself on the mercy of the Pool. When I was young and foolish, I was young and foolish. As a penance, I pledge to wear my Mets cap -- blue version -- to any and all sporting events and other functions that are appropriate. Plus, when we arrive at Citi Field in August, I'll bring the sidewalk chalk for Edgy's scheme. And I pledge not to be wooed into misbehavior by pulled pork sandwiches. Again. Benjamin Grimm May 02 2009 08:14 AM That's what we want to see. Remorse. Rotblatt May 02 2009 08:51 AM I have to say, their ballpark is really pleasant and very similar in layout to CitiField. The edge definitely goes to CF for me, though, partially because, as traitorinmichagan says, our facade and rotunda are just gorgeous. I was actually in Philly for the last game of the Series (campaigning for Obama), and got placed with two Phillies fans. They gave me a good-natured hard time, but were also gracious hosts, and invited me out to watch the game with them. Pretty crazy night, but fun (and yes, I rooted for the Phillies over the Rays--gotta root for the NL--but I wore my Cyclones hat). I did find myself thinking that the Mets team should have been there incognito, because I suspect watching a rival team's entire city turn out to celebrate victory would give them a little extra motivation. I know it made me pretty eager for a WS pennant . . . Ashie62 May 03 2009 08:20 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":sddeci55]Yes, it's been a one-sided rivalry for a long time. I was surprised, when I moved to the Philly suburbs back in 1988, to find so much hatred for the Mets. Philadelphia also has a one-sided rivalry with the Eagles/Cowboys. And in both cases, they have no idea. People here are surprisingly provincial.[/quote:sddeci55] Mets fans aren't..what about the MFY's Fman99 May 03 2009 08:40 AM I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were. SteveJRogers May 03 2009 08:44 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Yes, it's been a one-sided rivalry for a long time. I was surprised, when I moved to the Philly suburbs back in 1988, to find so much hatred for the Mets. Philadelphia also has a one-sided rivalry with the Eagles/Cowboys. And in both cases, they have no idea. People here are surprisingly provincial. I'm pretty sure the Dallas side got reved up during the halcyon days of the 1990s, probably still to this day. Dating back to Buddy Ryan supposedly putting bounties on several players, including Troy Aikman, all the way through Michael Irvin's career coming to an end on the Vet turf, and Philly fans cheering the injury. Benjamin Grimm May 03 2009 09:17 AM I've been to the Dallas area several times, and it appears that their rival there is the Redskins. I see all kinds of anti-Dallas Cowboys bumper stickers and stuff in the Philly area, but nothing at all about the Eagles in Texas. Benjamin Grimm May 03 2009 09:19 AM ="Fman99":e7xldmhk]I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were.[/quote:e7xldmhk] I was at a Mets-Phillies game in 2007 too. I'm not going to go back. It was such an ugly atmosphere I don't want to go there with my kids. (Carlos Gomez, I remember, injured himself and the fans were whooping and hollering with joy.) MFS62 May 03 2009 10:20 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3mzmcfb5]I've been to the Dallas area several times, and it appears that their rival there is the Redskins. I see all kinds of anti-Dallas Cowboys bumper stickers and stuff in the Philly area, but nothing at all about the Eagles in Texas.[/quote:3mzmcfb5] Agree. I was on a business trip to Dallas a number of years back with an associate who was an avid Redskins fan. We went to a bar to watch a Redskins/ Cowboys Monday night game. The 'Skins were beating up on the 'Pokes that night, real bad - IIRC around 40-something to nil. As the game progressed, he was cheering louder and louder, the patrons were getting madder and madder and I was moving farther and farther away from him. I think the fact that he was a 6'3" 240 lb ex-Notre Dame football player was what may have saved his reckless hide. BTW - it appears that you only need two things to open a bar in Dallas - a liquor license and a full sized poster of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. Back to the main point, the Eagles were never mentioned other than on game day during my many trips to Dallas. We now return you to the Philly talk. Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 03 2009 01:24 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":rc5gkky6]="Fman99":rc5gkky6]I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were.[/quote:rc5gkky6] I was at a Mets-Phillies game in 2007 too. I'm not going to go back. It was such an ugly atmosphere I don't want to go there with my kids. (Carlos Gomez, I remember, injured himself and the fans were whooping and hollering with joy.)[/quote:rc5gkky6] There's a difference between actual Phils fans-- a loyal, pretty well-informed group-- and college kids/dropouts who need somewhere to drink between Flyer season and Eagle season (steadily increasing in number since 2004 or so, roughly coincident with the rise of Utley and Hamels and Howard). I went to yesterday's game via public transport sporting the usual complement of regalia (away Santana jersey, trad blue-and-orange hat), and ended up having a nice little chat with two Phils-cap-wearing strangers comparing the relative bench strengths of the '69 Mets and the '08 Phils. Thanks to a train delay, I got inside the game in the bottom of the first. I asked a group of twentysomethings in red if they knew how the Phils' runs scored, and got called a "New Jork (think bad imitation of a Hispanic accent) queer" by a leering dude in a "World Phucking Champions" tee for my trouble. There are some in every fanbase... the ugly ones are just as bad when they're wearing blue and orange camo. Fman99 May 03 2009 02:22 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":25pp1ahd]="Benjamin Grimm":25pp1ahd]="Fman99":25pp1ahd]I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were.[/quote:25pp1ahd] I was at a Mets-Phillies game in 2007 too. I'm not going to go back. It was such an ugly atmosphere I don't want to go there with my kids. (Carlos Gomez, I remember, injured himself and the fans were whooping and hollering with joy.)[/quote:25pp1ahd] There's a difference between actual Phils fans-- a loyal, pretty well-informed group-- and college kids/dropouts who need somewhere to drink between Flyer season and Eagle season (steadily increasing in number since 2004 or so, roughly coincident with the rise of Utley and Hamels and Howard). I went to yesterday's game via public transport sporting the usual complement of regalia (away Santana jersey, trad blue-and-orange hat), and ended up having a nice little chat with two Phils-cap-wearing strangers comparing the relative bench strengths of the '69 Mets and the '08 Phils. Thanks to a train delay, I got inside the game in the bottom of the first. I asked a group of twentysomethings in red if they knew how the Phils' runs scored, and got called a "New Jork (think bad imitation of a Hispanic accent) queer" by a leering dude in a "World Phucking Champions" tee for my trouble. There are some in every fanbase... the ugly ones are just as bad when they're wearing blue and orange camo.[/quote:25pp1ahd] I will admit, there were more thugs in Met gear that day in '07 than I've ever been around in any other Mets game. In addition to the brutes in red. People are animals. metsguyinmichigan May 03 2009 03:18 PM ="Fman99":1ib6d02i]People are animals.[/quote:1ib6d02i] But, if you pretend to be one of them by wearing the home cap when they're playing the Diamondbacks, they let you pose with their heroes and buy pulled pork. Or so I've heard. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 03 2009 04:08 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":ers845mm]="Fman99":ers845mm]People are animals.[/quote:ers845mm] But, if you pretend to be one of them by wearing the home cap when they're playing the Diamondbacks, they let you pose with their heroes and buy pulled pork. Or so I've heard. [/quote:ers845mm] I actually sought out Luzinski twice-- once pre-game, once in-game-- to see if he'd take a picture with a guy in a Johan jersey. Swing-and-miss both times. Perhaps he had a derby party at the Murray house to attend. metsguyinmichigan May 03 2009 05:45 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]="metsguyinmichigan"]="Fman99"]People are animals. But, if you pretend to be one of them by wearing the home cap when they're playing the Diamondbacks, they let you pose with their heroes and buy pulled pork. Or so I've heard. I actually sought out Luzinski twice-- once pre-game, once in-game-- to see if he'd take a picture with a guy in a Johan jersey. Swing-and-miss both times. Perhaps he had a derby party at the Murray house to attend. Totally. And here's proof: I tried taking a photo of the race off the telvision, and I'm like, "Bull! Down in front!" And the thing is, he wasn't even a good houseguest. I'm like, "Greg, not for nothing, but I took a lot of heat from by friends this week for hanging with you. And all you bring to the party is a bag of chips that you got at the gas station on the way here? Not cool, Bull. We were hoping for some pulled pork." And he was like, "Whatever. Where are the julips?" And he made fun of my daughter's hat. My wife said I can't invite him next year. Frayed Knot May 03 2009 06:06 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":19k9poyd]="Benjamin Grimm":19k9poyd]="Fman99":19k9poyd]I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were.[/quote:19k9poyd] I was at a Mets-Phillies game in 2007 too. I'm not going to go back. It was such an ugly atmosphere I don't want to go there with my kids. (Carlos Gomez, I remember, injured himself and the fans were whooping and hollering with joy.)[/quote:19k9poyd] There's a difference between actual Phils fans-- a loyal, pretty well-informed group-- and college kids/dropouts who need somewhere to drink between Flyer season and Eagle season (steadily increasing in number since 2004 or so, roughly coincident with the rise of Utley and Hamels and Howard). I went to yesterday's game via public transport sporting the usual complement of regalia (away Santana jersey, trad blue-and-orange hat), and ended up having a nice little chat with two Phils-cap-wearing strangers comparing the relative bench strengths of the '69 Mets and the '08 Phils. Thanks to a train delay, I got inside the game in the bottom of the first. I asked a group of twentysomethings in red if they knew how the Phils' runs scored, and got called a "New Jork (think bad imitation of a Hispanic accent) queer" by a leering dude in a "World Phucking Champions" tee for my trouble. There are some in every fanbase... the ugly ones are just as bad when they're wearing blue and orange camo.[/quote:19k9poyd] I think the sports media in Philly tends to drive a lot of that kind of stuff. Even the worst of WFAN sounds like 'Masterpiece Theatre' compared to most of WIP. Encouraging callers whose sole point is to say 'Cowboys Suck' seems to be considered standard programming on some shows. I've always thought of Philly as more a football & hockey town as compared to baseball & hoops so maybe the macho attitude of those two sports help give the city its rep. The anti-Met thing I think it more just an extension of an overall anti-NYC bias that exists in a lot of places - just even moreso when your city is only 100 miles down the road. Perhaps the attitudes in Philly - like Boston in many ways - were formed way back by people who never got over NYC supplanting their towns as the dominant city on the eastern seaboard all those years ago. Kong76 May 03 2009 06:09 PM This was really funny ... seawolf17 May 03 2009 06:10 PM I've always loved Greg Luzinski -- my coach in baseball camp one year called me "Bull" because my power, speed, and remarkable ability to strike out reminded him of Luzinski.

="metsguyinmichigan":cjnjj8nb]"Citi Field - the not-so-impressive new park ...[/quote:cjnjj8nb] I think that, regrettably, there is some truth there. Citi Field is very impressive when compared to a nearly 50 year old Shea Stadium, but not very impressive when compared to the other new baseball stadiums. Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 10:16 AM I skip over his column every day in the print edition of the Inquirer. That paper uses a lot of column inches to mock the Mets and their fans. I've learned to not even skim it. Philadelphia is a very low-class sports town. I should move. metirish May 01 2009 10:16 AM For those that have been to both CF and CBP which would you say is more impressive? Edgy DC May 01 2009 10:18 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 10:20 AM It doesn't matter. Writing to talk shit and find new ways to make people feel like shit hardly deserrves analysis. He's basically trying to provoke fistfights. soupcan May 01 2009 10:19 AM I think its a craptastic column as well, but what did he write that's not true? batmagadanleadoff May 01 2009 10:22 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":2xe7aylf]="metsguyinmichigan":2xe7aylf]"Citi Field - the not-so-impressive new park ...[/quote:2xe7aylf] I think that, regrettably, there is some truth there. Citi Field is very impressive when compared to a nearly 50 year old Shea Stadium, but not very impressive when compared to the other new baseball stadiums.[/quote:2xe7aylf] ="Benjamin Grimm":2xe7aylf]I skip over his column every day in the print edition of the Inquirer. That paper uses a lot of column inches to mock the Mets and their fans. I've learned to not even skim it. Philadelphia is a very low-class sports town. I should move.[/quote:2xe7aylf] I should've added that I also agree that the article, as a whole, is an embarassing piece of junk. That is, if Philly fans have enough sense and selfe-awareness to be embarrased. metirish May 01 2009 10:28 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 10:34 AM ="soupcan":rv8zmkjz]I think its a craptastic column as well, but what did he write that's not true?[/quote:rv8zmkjz] I think the way that it was written is what's shitty about it , the mocking tone to it and so on... LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 10:31 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 10:36 AM ="metirish":ionzsggb]For those that have been to both CF and CBP which would you say is more impressive?[/quote:ionzsggb] Push. Same HOK/Populous design (wide concourses, retro-y touches). Aramark-run concessions with a soupcon of genuine local fare (i.e., their ice cream is Turkey Hill, their cheesesteaks are from two actual well-known local purveyors of same, Rick's Steaks/Tony Luke's). Their park isn't exactly set flush into a city block either-- it's in a Meadowlands-y complex at the south end of Broad St (right by the Eagles/Sixers/Flyers stuff). The club did seem to put a lot of attention into acknowledging its history (the restaurant is "Harry the K's," pictures abound, caps from EVERY era of Phillies-dom available at their New Era shop), so that might give the Bad Guys the slight overall edge. (Oh, and on a tangential, Paul Lukasesque note-- those cream-colored red-and-blue trimmed alternate home unis they brought out last year? Bee-YOO-tiful.) Edgy DC May 01 2009 10:33 AM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 11:16 AM ="soupcan"]I think its a craptastic column as well, but what did he write that's not true? I'll bite. ]We love to hate each other, sure Speak for yourself, hatemonger. ]You probably saw most of it on TV since you didn't have much else to do after September. New Yorkers have plenty to do after September. A lot of them live in and around New York, you see. ]You remember all the pageantry that goes along with being a world champion, right? No? Well, maybe you have some faded pictures of 1986 in a shoebox somewhere. Yeah, or a Giants Super Bowl. ]This might be overstepping our relationship, but can we tell you something? You guys seem awfully haggard. It looks like you haven't slept much lately. Guess choking away two straight division titles will keep you up at night. Well, one, fans didn't choke away anything. Two, it's impossible to not sleep since last September. And that isn't "lately." ]It has to be brutal to be a Mets fan. The Fightin's got off to a typically slow start and still managed to finish the first month of the season with an 11-9 record. That's where they were at this point last year - two games over .500 - and we all know how 2008 worked out for the Phils. The contextualizing and rationalizing about the Phils doesn't support the thesis sentence. ]Meanwhile, the Mets enter the series having lost seven of their last 10. They're three games under .500 and looking sloppier every day. Oh, here's where he supports it. I guess he needs those paragraph breaks to keep the inches flowing. Um, life is not losing seven of ten all year every year for Met fans. ]Their season certainly hasn't gone over well with the New York media. Stories about the Mets are frequently peppered with words such as "pressure" and "anxiety" and "failure." And the headlines are even more vicious: True enough. People don't write shit in Phillie papers I guess. ]Things have gotten so ugly that David Wright has been openly booed at Citi Field. (A little advice: that kind of behavior is so unbecoming. You should try to be more like us - cool and calm and supportive.) Here he even knows he's full of shit. ]On top of all that, you're forced to pay outrageous prices to watch bad baseball at Citi Field Not forced to do anything. ]- the not-so-impressive new park that the team plunked down next to a shanty town of shabby auto body shops. It's not like that site was scouted. It's 35 feet from where Shea was. Really, is the Iron Triangle an issue to New York Met fans at all? At least bring up the planes from LaGuardia or something. ]Even visitors from Detroit would find that area crummy. Yeah, because a lot of tourists stroll around there, to the express embarassment of Met fans, who lay awake wishing they had a city free of blight like Philadelphia. It's all kinda sorta true is no excuse for douchecraft. soupcan May 01 2009 11:10 AM 'Douchecraft' - I like it. Nymr83 May 01 2009 11:33 AM ]On top of all that, you're forced to pay outrageous prices to watch bad baseball at Citi Field - the not-so-impressive new park that the team plunked down next to a shanty town of shabby auto body shops. Even visitors from Detroit would find that area crummy I got in Monday for $11, I sat in seats better than the entire upper deck at Shea, I was mostly impressed by the ballpark, and I'd rather have a shanty town than have the government using its eminent domain power to tear down businesses. And there are no "visitors from Detroit" to find the area crummy because the people who leave Detroit don't go back, making them "migrants from Detroit who chose the big apple over your crappy city" LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 11:46 AM ="soupcan"]'Douchecraft' - I like it. That baiting crap in ink With that peculiar stink Your payslip should be pink It's... douchecraft... metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 11:51 AM I won't get to Citi until the first week in August, but I did get to a game at Cit Bank Park a couple years ago. We went to PNC in the same weekend, and I thought it was far better. We had a double header, so there was plenty of time to walk around and check it out. On the plus side, the giant bonging Liberty Bell is a nice touch. I found several statues, though the Robin Roberts one is a little strange. Greg Luzinski has a BBQ stand and was there to sign autographs and pose for photos. I found some neat mosaics of players and some other nice touches. On the negative side, there's no focal point to the thing when you drive up -- no "front door," if you will. It looked like a jumble of bricks and black steel piled in the middle of a parking lot. It's an ugly "building." Say what you want about Citi, but it's beautiful and orderly from the outside, with the brick arches. It looks like what it's supposed look like. soupcan May 01 2009 12:08 PM Dude...? Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 12:15 PM Time for pitchforks and torches. G-Fafif May 01 2009 12:17 PM Do sportswriters down there get fired for displaying too much professinalism? Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 12:21 PM Seems that way. I think they're instructed to pander to the fans' baser instincts. They have to sell papers, you know. metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 12:45 PM ="soupcan"] Dude...? I know. Bastard Luzinski called on his minions to refuse to sell me a pulled pork sandwich or sign an autograph or pose with the photo until they slammed on my head what in hindsight appears to be a Phillies cap. I wasn't gonna do it, but the pulled pork smelled really good. Plus, I was undercover. Shhh. HahnSolo May 01 2009 12:46 PM ="G-Fafif":28rkd6zs]Do sportswriters down there get fired for displaying too much professinalism?[/quote:28rkd6zs] It is the city that made Stephen A. Smith "famous". And MGIM, wtf? Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 12:49 PM You sold your soul for pulled pork??? seawolf17 May 01 2009 12:56 PM Wait, WHAT? I'll get the roasting spit ready. You posted the picture yourself... the least you could have done was photoshopped that out. Bad mgim. Better or worse that Steve professing his love for the Yankees? I say worse. This is an actual rival. soupcan May 01 2009 12:58 PM WORSE! String him up! metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 01:00 PM It was really, really good pulled pork. That, and I have a lot of caps. I usually wear the home team, if I have it, unless they're playing the Mets. The exception is the Yankees. So, um, what do you guys think about Jerry's decision to pinch-hit for Castro this week? I'm a little concerned about Wright's strikeouts. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 02:53 PM ="metsguyinmichigan"]It was really, really good pulled pork. That, and I have a lot of caps. I usually wear the home team, if I have it, unless they're playing the Mets. The exception is the Yankees. So, um, what do you guys think about Jerry's decision to pinch-hit for Castro this week? I'm a little concerned about Wright's strikeouts. "Usually wear... the..." WhatwhatWHAT? So you're not a traitor... you're a mercenary? (And a cheap one at that!) [Plus, MGIM, the pulled pork isn't soul-selling-great. Now, the Tony Luke's roast pork Italian (roast pork, sharp provolone, and sauteed broccoli rabe)... maybe.] Swan Swan H May 01 2009 02:55 PM I saw Tony Luke on a Food Network show. Phillies Lovin' Douchebag, with the emphasis on the 'bag. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 03:13 PM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on May 01 2009 03:17 PM ="Swan Swan H"]I saw Tony Luke on a Food Network show. Phillies Lovin' Douchebag, with the emphasis on the 'bag. Saw the same show... and have been to the mothership (went to school in Philly)... and hells yes, he is-- the entire place is plastered with starf*cking photos and the like, and both he and the rest of the management (mostly extended family) carry themselves with a pronounced "F*ck you-- buy something" charm. (The guy who owns Geno's-- of "English-only" fame-- is cut from the same cloth.) That said, the sandwiches are delectable. And there's a place around here on 9th near the Port Authority-- Shorty's, I think it's called-- that used to be a Tony Luke's demi-franchise, but had to change the name due to ownership issues; the sandwiches, though, are straight out of the TL playbook. (Also, good beer selection.) http://www.tonylukes.com/menu.htm The Schmitter-- also worth a stab (and, shortly thereafter, stabbing pains up and down your left arm). themetfairy May 01 2009 03:15 PM That thing probably has more calories than I eat in an entire day.... seawolf17 May 01 2009 06:56 PM Focus, people! Focus! His hat! Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 07:00 PM Like I said, pitchforks and torches. And pulled pork. He may be a Mets guy in Michigan, but when he's in Pennsylvania he's apparently a Phillies guy. metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 07:03 PM No wait, that Schmitter looks pretty good. Do they sell those in the stadium? We went to Pats, the epicenter for all things cheesesteak, earlier in the day. Anybody ever go to Pat's? Oh, wait a second. Did you think that was me in the hat? No, no, I'm the guy in the sun glasses going hatless. There was a time when I kinda looked a little like Luzinski. People would pass me in the concourse saying, "Hey! Bull!" and "Bull, why are you wearing a Mets jacket, Mets socks and Mets crocks?" soupcan May 01 2009 08:37 PM LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2009 08:55 PM Yes, they do serve the Schmitter there. Also, we win. WOOT! Back to serious business... what shall be MGIM's penalty? There's got to be some sort of penance thing here, no? (And hat off to Soup. Nicely turned.) metsguyinmichigan May 01 2009 08:59 PM ="soupcan"] Bad ass! Edgy DC May 01 2009 09:37 PM I think I just realized that the Capital City Goofball is somehow descended from both Mr. Met and the Phanatic. Edgy DC May 01 2009 09:42 PM And by the by, I guess we're supposed to be all "in your face, phuckin' phils and phils phans!" and spoilin some shit, but the real enemum --- to Mets fans and Phils phans --- is this Gonzalez guy, whose allegiance to the Phils and contempt for the Mets is all bullshit, but he's collecting a check for stocking the flame. Number 6 May 01 2009 11:44 PM I honestly never knew that Phillies fans cared so much about the Mets, but they've certainly come out of the woodwork since the Series. I've never really given much of a damn about the Phillies, and their victory has only increased the damn-giving quotient slightly. Maybe I care a tiny bit now, but they'll suck again before long, and go back to being just another team. Personally, I'd rather this "rivalry" be defined by schmucks like this guy howling into a wind tunnel on one side, followed by disinterest at the other end, so I'll keep any further thoughts to myself. Benjamin Grimm May 02 2009 03:47 AM Yes, it's been a one-sided rivalry for a long time. I was surprised, when I moved to the Philly suburbs back in 1988, to find so much hatred for the Mets. Philadelphia also has a one-sided rivalry with the Eagles/Cowboys. And in both cases, they have no idea. People here are surprisingly provincial. metsguyinmichigan May 02 2009 07:57 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 02 2009 08:59 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]Yes, they do serve the Schmitter there. Also, we win. WOOT! Back to serious business... what shall be MGIM's penalty? There's got to be some sort of penance thing here, no? (And hat off to Soup. Nicely turned.) I throw myself on the mercy of the Pool. When I was young and foolish, I was young and foolish. As a penance, I pledge to wear my Mets cap -- blue version -- to any and all sporting events and other functions that are appropriate. Plus, when we arrive at Citi Field in August, I'll bring the sidewalk chalk for Edgy's scheme. And I pledge not to be wooed into misbehavior by pulled pork sandwiches. Again. Benjamin Grimm May 02 2009 08:14 AM That's what we want to see. Remorse. Rotblatt May 02 2009 08:51 AM I have to say, their ballpark is really pleasant and very similar in layout to CitiField. The edge definitely goes to CF for me, though, partially because, as traitorinmichagan says, our facade and rotunda are just gorgeous. I was actually in Philly for the last game of the Series (campaigning for Obama), and got placed with two Phillies fans. They gave me a good-natured hard time, but were also gracious hosts, and invited me out to watch the game with them. Pretty crazy night, but fun (and yes, I rooted for the Phillies over the Rays--gotta root for the NL--but I wore my Cyclones hat). I did find myself thinking that the Mets team should have been there incognito, because I suspect watching a rival team's entire city turn out to celebrate victory would give them a little extra motivation. I know it made me pretty eager for a WS pennant . . . Ashie62 May 03 2009 08:20 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":sddeci55]Yes, it's been a one-sided rivalry for a long time. I was surprised, when I moved to the Philly suburbs back in 1988, to find so much hatred for the Mets. Philadelphia also has a one-sided rivalry with the Eagles/Cowboys. And in both cases, they have no idea. People here are surprisingly provincial.[/quote:sddeci55] Mets fans aren't..what about the MFY's Fman99 May 03 2009 08:40 AM I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were. SteveJRogers May 03 2009 08:44 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Yes, it's been a one-sided rivalry for a long time. I was surprised, when I moved to the Philly suburbs back in 1988, to find so much hatred for the Mets. Philadelphia also has a one-sided rivalry with the Eagles/Cowboys. And in both cases, they have no idea. People here are surprisingly provincial. I'm pretty sure the Dallas side got reved up during the halcyon days of the 1990s, probably still to this day. Dating back to Buddy Ryan supposedly putting bounties on several players, including Troy Aikman, all the way through Michael Irvin's career coming to an end on the Vet turf, and Philly fans cheering the injury. Benjamin Grimm May 03 2009 09:17 AM I've been to the Dallas area several times, and it appears that their rival there is the Redskins. I see all kinds of anti-Dallas Cowboys bumper stickers and stuff in the Philly area, but nothing at all about the Eagles in Texas. Benjamin Grimm May 03 2009 09:19 AM ="Fman99":e7xldmhk]I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were.[/quote:e7xldmhk] I was at a Mets-Phillies game in 2007 too. I'm not going to go back. It was such an ugly atmosphere I don't want to go there with my kids. (Carlos Gomez, I remember, injured himself and the fans were whooping and hollering with joy.) MFS62 May 03 2009 10:20 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3mzmcfb5]I've been to the Dallas area several times, and it appears that their rival there is the Redskins. I see all kinds of anti-Dallas Cowboys bumper stickers and stuff in the Philly area, but nothing at all about the Eagles in Texas.[/quote:3mzmcfb5] Agree. I was on a business trip to Dallas a number of years back with an associate who was an avid Redskins fan. We went to a bar to watch a Redskins/ Cowboys Monday night game. The 'Skins were beating up on the 'Pokes that night, real bad - IIRC around 40-something to nil. As the game progressed, he was cheering louder and louder, the patrons were getting madder and madder and I was moving farther and farther away from him. I think the fact that he was a 6'3" 240 lb ex-Notre Dame football player was what may have saved his reckless hide. BTW - it appears that you only need two things to open a bar in Dallas - a liquor license and a full sized poster of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. Back to the main point, the Eagles were never mentioned other than on game day during my many trips to Dallas. We now return you to the Philly talk. Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 03 2009 01:24 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":rc5gkky6]="Fman99":rc5gkky6]I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were.[/quote:rc5gkky6] I was at a Mets-Phillies game in 2007 too. I'm not going to go back. It was such an ugly atmosphere I don't want to go there with my kids. (Carlos Gomez, I remember, injured himself and the fans were whooping and hollering with joy.)[/quote:rc5gkky6] There's a difference between actual Phils fans-- a loyal, pretty well-informed group-- and college kids/dropouts who need somewhere to drink between Flyer season and Eagle season (steadily increasing in number since 2004 or so, roughly coincident with the rise of Utley and Hamels and Howard). I went to yesterday's game via public transport sporting the usual complement of regalia (away Santana jersey, trad blue-and-orange hat), and ended up having a nice little chat with two Phils-cap-wearing strangers comparing the relative bench strengths of the '69 Mets and the '08 Phils. Thanks to a train delay, I got inside the game in the bottom of the first. I asked a group of twentysomethings in red if they knew how the Phils' runs scored, and got called a "New Jork (think bad imitation of a Hispanic accent) queer" by a leering dude in a "World Phucking Champions" tee for my trouble. There are some in every fanbase... the ugly ones are just as bad when they're wearing blue and orange camo. Fman99 May 03 2009 02:22 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":25pp1ahd]="Benjamin Grimm":25pp1ahd]="Fman99":25pp1ahd]I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were.[/quote:25pp1ahd] I was at a Mets-Phillies game in 2007 too. I'm not going to go back. It was such an ugly atmosphere I don't want to go there with my kids. (Carlos Gomez, I remember, injured himself and the fans were whooping and hollering with joy.)[/quote:25pp1ahd] There's a difference between actual Phils fans-- a loyal, pretty well-informed group-- and college kids/dropouts who need somewhere to drink between Flyer season and Eagle season (steadily increasing in number since 2004 or so, roughly coincident with the rise of Utley and Hamels and Howard). I went to yesterday's game via public transport sporting the usual complement of regalia (away Santana jersey, trad blue-and-orange hat), and ended up having a nice little chat with two Phils-cap-wearing strangers comparing the relative bench strengths of the '69 Mets and the '08 Phils. Thanks to a train delay, I got inside the game in the bottom of the first. I asked a group of twentysomethings in red if they knew how the Phils' runs scored, and got called a "New Jork (think bad imitation of a Hispanic accent) queer" by a leering dude in a "World Phucking Champions" tee for my trouble. There are some in every fanbase... the ugly ones are just as bad when they're wearing blue and orange camo.[/quote:25pp1ahd] I will admit, there were more thugs in Met gear that day in '07 than I've ever been around in any other Mets game. In addition to the brutes in red. People are animals. metsguyinmichigan May 03 2009 03:18 PM ="Fman99":1ib6d02i]People are animals.[/quote:1ib6d02i] But, if you pretend to be one of them by wearing the home cap when they're playing the Diamondbacks, they let you pose with their heroes and buy pulled pork. Or so I've heard. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 03 2009 04:08 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":ers845mm]="Fman99":ers845mm]People are animals.[/quote:ers845mm] But, if you pretend to be one of them by wearing the home cap when they're playing the Diamondbacks, they let you pose with their heroes and buy pulled pork. Or so I've heard. [/quote:ers845mm] I actually sought out Luzinski twice-- once pre-game, once in-game-- to see if he'd take a picture with a guy in a Johan jersey. Swing-and-miss both times. Perhaps he had a derby party at the Murray house to attend. metsguyinmichigan May 03 2009 05:45 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]="metsguyinmichigan"]="Fman99"]People are animals. But, if you pretend to be one of them by wearing the home cap when they're playing the Diamondbacks, they let you pose with their heroes and buy pulled pork. Or so I've heard. I actually sought out Luzinski twice-- once pre-game, once in-game-- to see if he'd take a picture with a guy in a Johan jersey. Swing-and-miss both times. Perhaps he had a derby party at the Murray house to attend. Totally. And here's proof: I tried taking a photo of the race off the telvision, and I'm like, "Bull! Down in front!" And the thing is, he wasn't even a good houseguest. I'm like, "Greg, not for nothing, but I took a lot of heat from by friends this week for hanging with you. And all you bring to the party is a bag of chips that you got at the gas station on the way here? Not cool, Bull. We were hoping for some pulled pork." And he was like, "Whatever. Where are the julips?" And he made fun of my daughter's hat. My wife said I can't invite him next year. Frayed Knot May 03 2009 06:06 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":19k9poyd]="Benjamin Grimm":19k9poyd]="Fman99":19k9poyd]I detest the Phillies and their fans. It took going to a Mets-Phils tilt at Shea in '07 just to see how obnoxious they were.[/quote:19k9poyd] I was at a Mets-Phillies game in 2007 too. I'm not going to go back. It was such an ugly atmosphere I don't want to go there with my kids. (Carlos Gomez, I remember, injured himself and the fans were whooping and hollering with joy.)[/quote:19k9poyd] There's a difference between actual Phils fans-- a loyal, pretty well-informed group-- and college kids/dropouts who need somewhere to drink between Flyer season and Eagle season (steadily increasing in number since 2004 or so, roughly coincident with the rise of Utley and Hamels and Howard). I went to yesterday's game via public transport sporting the usual complement of regalia (away Santana jersey, trad blue-and-orange hat), and ended up having a nice little chat with two Phils-cap-wearing strangers comparing the relative bench strengths of the '69 Mets and the '08 Phils. Thanks to a train delay, I got inside the game in the bottom of the first. I asked a group of twentysomethings in red if they knew how the Phils' runs scored, and got called a "New Jork (think bad imitation of a Hispanic accent) queer" by a leering dude in a "World Phucking Champions" tee for my trouble. There are some in every fanbase... the ugly ones are just as bad when they're wearing blue and orange camo.[/quote:19k9poyd] I think the sports media in Philly tends to drive a lot of that kind of stuff. Even the worst of WFAN sounds like 'Masterpiece Theatre' compared to most of WIP. Encouraging callers whose sole point is to say 'Cowboys Suck' seems to be considered standard programming on some shows. I've always thought of Philly as more a football & hockey town as compared to baseball & hoops so maybe the macho attitude of those two sports help give the city its rep. The anti-Met thing I think it more just an extension of an overall anti-NYC bias that exists in a lot of places - just even moreso when your city is only 100 miles down the road. Perhaps the attitudes in Philly - like Boston in many ways - were formed way back by people who never got over NYC supplanting their towns as the dominant city on the eastern seaboard all those years ago. Kong76 May 03 2009 06:09 PM This was really funny ... seawolf17 May 03 2009 06:10 PM I've always loved Greg Luzinski -- my coach in baseball camp one year called me "Bull" because my power, speed, and remarkable ability to strike out reminded him of Luzinski.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3sq2fm4u]Wham.[/quote:3sq2fm4u] Yeah, but what was Huckle's number? John Cougar Lunchbucket May 01 2009 07:48 AM I'll have to hear from Keith's buddy before I can say for sure. He doesn;t appear on a roster I have from September of 1963. The 1964 spring training roster lists him as 35, which would have been available in 63 too. Interestingly the Mets then issued several organization invites numbers in the 30s: 32 Lloyd Flodin 34 Cleon Jones 35 Wilbur Huckle Those guys in the Samuels Era get issued numbers in the 60s. batmagadanleadoff May 04 2009 08:14 AM From Jerry Grote's Facebook page: Jerry Grote wroteon February 20, 2009 at 9:47pm Gary Balbaugh (San Antonio, TX) wrote at 9:53pm Did you play with Wilbur Huckle? He ran for president. He is my wife's cousin. Played with and against Wilbur in high school in San Antonio. He went to Harlandale and I was at MacArthur. We played on one all-star team together but can't remember which one or which year. Jerry John Cougar Lunchbucket May 04 2009 08:21 AM I guess Huckle is Gary Balbaugh's wife's cousin, not Grote's. It would be more fun the other way around. Edgy DC May 12 2009 08:21 AM Have you heard back from Keith on your counterpoint? John Cougar Lunchbucket May 12 2009 08:24 AM Nope. Edgy DC May 20 2009 02:52 PM Edgy DC May 20 2009 02:54 PM The Make-Your-Own-Indy-Album generator picked up the Wilbur wikipedia entry. http://worldsareforming.blogs.com/worldsareforming/2008/01/wilbur-huckle-h.html John Cougar Lunchbucket May 21 2009 06:59 PM [url:10z752kb]http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/05/meet_wilbur_huckle_again.html[/url:10z752kb] I tellya, I get no respect at all. Edgy DC May 21 2009 10:22 PM More like that he feels no need to give any.