stevejrogers

Not quite sure who "John" is. From Wiki: John Carmichael, a Chicago sports writer who was awarded the Spinx award that year.

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Yeah, I just saw that...maybe that was just an aged Ryan talking up a Met biased panel of hosts, because he did often speak of being unsure of wanting to stay in the big city and such. Hell, getting traded to California was the best thing that could have happened to his career, more ways than one. It does seem to be revisionist history on his part to suggest that he realizes the business aspect of the game some 30 years after the trade happened.

Recently I'm reading up on the Nolan Ryan/Jim Fregosi trade. At Wikipedia I read this: Contrary to popular belief, Ryan never wanted to be traded from the Mets and felt betrayed by the team that drafted him. In Matthew Silverman's very kool book New York Mets 50 Amazin' Seasons I read this: Ryan had asked for a trade, mostly because his wife Ruth was frightened by New York, and Ryan worried about her when he was on the road. Which is correct? Unless its sourced, never trust Wiki. Ryan's own autobiographies from the 1990s corroborate with Silverman's story.

I'm probably the only one wondering but, whatever happened to the Mets' HOF busts? The only ones I know about are the Seaver, Stengel and Hodges ones that are now in the lobby of their respective VIP entrances at Citi Field. Also kind of curious about the Cooperstown-esque plaque Murph got on the occasion of his Frick award that hung in the Diamond Club lobby. There was also one for Gary Carter that is now in the offices of his foundation.

Warren Sapp's braids did make it though...

Frayed Knot wrote: In a world where Oscar Gamble is in the HoF and Cooperstown displayed busts without hats, would his be carved with a giant afro? Man I hope so. There's got to be some NFL player with a serious '70s 'fro. Or maybe John Riggins with his mohawk. Sadly no to Riggins

For obvious reasons baseball is the only one of the big four Halls where this tends to be an issue Pro Football Hall of Fame Basketball Hall of Fame

Ashie62 wrote: BBR credits Yogi with all Met outcomes in 1972 fwiw TBF, I doubt they'd do that unless there was some sort of official interim, rather than a one day thing. Such as an illness or any other prolonged leave of absence.

RealityChuck wrote: You've got the wrong date: Berra was inducted on the 7th. *face palm* due to writing the wrong date despite linking to both the text of Berra's speech and the UMDB page for the game, both having the correct date on it! Talk about sloppy copy editing...ugh! According to the Times, he managed in St. Louis that night (and in Shea the day before). Sounds like he headed to Cooperstown as soon as the Sunday game was over, and flew to St. Louis right after the ceremony. Oddly enough though, in my quick Google search on the matter, a recent Berra bio that had selected pages scanned in Google books said that Berra was given leave by the Mets for the Monday game. Obviously, hence my original question, the book didn't say who would have managed in Berra's absence. Heh, so whomever wrote the book probably just assumed that would be the case, and didn't do what Chuck did and search the NYT archives!

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/40th-anniversary-13th-inning-inside-the-park-walk-off-home-run/ On to the bottom of the ninth. There�s only one thing worth noting in this frame. The Mets began the inning with relief pitcher Tug McGraw taking the place of Tom Seaver. This makes it that much odder that Mets manager Yogi Berra would let Seaver bat just a few minutes earlier. Well, McGraw shut down the Cardinals and extra innings beckoned. *snicker* Well, it would be odd considering he was in upstate New York that day, and probably wouldn't have shown up to St. Louis for that night's game!

Just thought there'd be a nice catch all for obscure questions and such. For instance, August 2nd, 1972, the Mets are losing an extra inning game in St. Louis the same day their skipper, oddly enough from St. Louis, Yogi Berra is being inducted into Cooperstown. So, who was the Met skipper that day? Bringing Pignatano in from the bullpen?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: When is the beginning of the steroid era? I'm inclined to put it somewhere around 1987, when there was talk of a "juiced ball" and Lenny Dykstra showed up for spring training all bulked up. How about with Brian Downing (suspected) and Tom House (admitted) in the 1970s?

Ceetar wrote: He explained on facebook and someone tweeted. Nomo he felt because he came from Japan and was a pioneer and presumed clean, by him, that that's good. Did he vote for Fernando Valenzuela? Granted El Torro was far from a trailblazer, but you could argue having a better start and bigger impact on transcending the popular culture zeitgeist than Nomo. FWIW, its possible he did, and/or many that felt the way I laid it out, as Valenzuela managed to last two years on the ballot! 2003 BBWAA ( 6.2%) 2004 BBWAA ( 3.8%)

G-Fafif wrote: So if the three Pete Rose guys hadn't had cause to be Pete Rose guys and the open-heart guy was in better shape, Seaver would've come in at 429/430, or 99.77% It'd be interesting to see who would have had a higher percentage if that cause hadn't been there.

I don't think any Rose ballots were thrown out. (Write-ins are legal, and if ballots were tossed, I imagine they wouldn't be counted.) They may have been blank submissions to protest Rose's exclusion, if that's what you mean. Seaver was named on 98.84% (on 425 of 430 ballots), higher than Nolan Ryan's 98.79% (491 of 497), and Ty Cobb's 98.23% (222 of 226). Three of the five ballots that had omitted Seaver were blank, cast by writers protesting the Hall's decision to make Pete Rose ineligible for consideration. One ballot was sent by a writer who was recovering from open-heart surgery and failed to notice Seaver's name. The fifth "no" vote was cast by a writer who said he never voted for any player in their first year of eligibility. (source: USA Today.) Yeah, that's what I meant. That was the first year Rose would have been included so I figured there'd been some sort of protest that first year. I'd love to know when, or if, that practice ever stopped.

Edgy MD wrote: In general, the lack of unanimity doesn't bother me. Broad electoral processes should be a mess, with results gathered from a broad range of opinions. The idea that viable candidates --- including and especially "pre-steroid era" rock stars like Alan Trammell and Tim Raines (both better than Morris) --- are utterly lost in the conversation while we rend our shirts over the roid issue year after year, that bothers me. As for "never" having a unanimous candidate, I think that's ridiculous. Jeter, for instance, has a damn good chance. It'll stink if he breaks Seaver's record and Maddux doesn't (although Maddux certainly still may, one vote being one vote), but c'est la vie. What was Seaver's? 5? Like 3 hardline "I don't vote for First Balloters...ever" asshats and a couple of Rose votes that were thrown out?

Ceetar wrote: Is there a blog or site out there that tracks first pitches? It'd be an interesting stat to throw out there "Mets are 4-2 when Michael Almonte throws out the first pitch" or something. Does seem like way too of an obscure thing to track. Even if you have access to Press Game Notes, I doubt they'd have all 81+ ceremonial pitch throwers or anthem performers for every single time (gotta give some room for cases of games called in progress and the person wasn't able to be brought back). Anthem maybe, but it seems more of a "you'd have to be there to know" sort of thing than something you'd see written down.

Ceetar wrote: SteveJRogers wrote: Edgy MD wrote: But the point remains, how can you be so sure your eye test is correct with Piazza and Bagwell, but not with Thomas? Or Maddux, or Glavine, or Schilling, or Jeter, or Mariano, or Mattingly, or Robbie Alomar or Ricky Henderson, or.. Or Reggie Jackson, or Brian Downing, or Pete Rose, or Nolan Ryan, or Cal Ripken, or George Brett...

Edgy MD wrote: Dan Shaugnessy just made me weep at my desk. I know "consider the source" but Wally Watthews always suspected Thomas with the "me thinks doth protest too much" line of thinking with how much The Big Hurt was anti-PEDs in public statements. Then again Matthews suspected Piazza, Bagwell, Kent, and just about everyone to the point where he and his radio partner, Tom Keegan, once did a "lets do a "Real MVP" award" for each season during the 1990s and somehow Craig Biggio became a multiple time MVP! But the point remains, how can you be so sure your eye test is correct with Piazza and Bagwell, but not with Thomas?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Tammy? Glavine.

Results are starting to trickle in over at Baseball Think Factory's Ballot Collecting Gizmo. http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/ Obviously way too small of a sample size at the moment, but interesting that Tammy is being linked with Maddux in terms of an attempt to topple Seaver. Interesting because Tammy was clearly the Koosman to Seaver's Maddux (and I've seen people make cases that Jerry was a better overall pitcher than Tammy).

David Wright's Agent?

metsguyinmichigan wrote: So if Pizza gets hit with accusations because he played in a certain era and is assumed to be guilty, why are Maddux, Glavine, Jeter and others presumed to be not guilty? It's not like Piazza had a sudden power surge or played at an insanely high level into his 40s. Seems like he was fairly consistent and started breaking down at an age when catchers typically break down. Considering the treatment Bagwell and Biggio have gotten as well, I think the writers have answered that, and are throwing a wide blanket over the era. It is possible that besides Glavine and Maddux, the writers could have justified their recent blanketing of the era by saying "no one was really "worthy" of being a First Ballot Hall of Famer until Maddux showed up." Of course I'll keep going back to the idea that makes their stance silly is that; A) how do they arbitrarily decide WHEN the era starts, WHEN did it end (and as we are still seeing, I really don't think it HAS ended) and C) how do they know for sure they haven't already inducted a PED user? And I'll go back to players who played in the mid-1970s for whispers and innuendo as opposed to contemporaries of Jose Canseco (though a big one I have in mind did play with Canseco).

Ceetar wrote: I don't remember who it was, but there was definitely a writer that said they were holding off on Piazza to see if he admitted to anything in the book. Would not be shocked if he listened too much to the Murray Chasses of the world. Chass pretty much declared that their MUST BE some sort of revelation in the book regarding Piazza being a PED user.