Gwreck

I'm sorry, David's "quiet" .340 is not something we can complain about. Is there anyone getting more hits in the league? Nope. He can't put the people on base ahead of him to drive in. As for the fundamentals? It's a HUGE problem, and I don't understand why Jerry isn't being called on the carpet more for this. He, Razor Shines and Sandy Alomar are doing a piss poor job of making sure the Mets play solid defensive baseball. It's just terrible.

Don't mind getting beat by Ryan Braun; he's a good hitter. Drives me crazy though that we are consistently unable to make proper relay throws. Good throw by Cora gets Hardy at the plate I think.

Blew off the game entirely to watch a DVD of Bruce Springsteen at Glastonbury. Much more entertaining.

Luis Castillo's OBP this year against RHP: .383. Argenis Reyes' [u:e60fc1fdd6]LIFETIME[/u:e60fc1fdd6] OBP: .252. Seriously, I wonder sometimes if Jerry remembers that the object of the game is to WIN.

="bmfc1":3hsdd5wp]"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.[/quote:3hsdd5wp] I know. You'd think the list still would've only had him on there once. Did somebody go through the list of players on each team, find who was plausible, and put this together? (And simply forget that Burnitz was already on there)? Or perhaps Jeromy tested positive twice, once with each team. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:54 AM ="Gwreck":3pm0hlqj]Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.[/quote:3pm0hlqj] Thanks... I figured that I would miss a few. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:18 PM It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball. Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 12:58 PM anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either. Edgy DC Jun 29 2009 01:12 PM Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know. smg58 Jun 29 2009 01:17 PM Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 01:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 01:44 PM After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form. metirish Jun 29 2009 01:39 PM Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte] SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 01:41 PM ="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM ="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1]="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

ESPN had a camera on a crane above the Shea batter's eye when they did it for Mets' games. The camera was too far away and the shot was terrible.

="bmfc1":355jydkl]Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?[/quote:355jydkl] The list appeared to be sorted by division and team, so you get Alomar, Cedeno, Burnitz and Floyd all listed together. Those are your '03 Mets. Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 11:45 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 11:48 AM ="bmfc1":n44vb3vz]"Not counting Freddy Garcia and Bret Boone who were spring training Mets." As was Valerio de los Santos. Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?[/quote:n44vb3vz] Hey, Art Howe ran a clean clubhouse!!! Meanwhile... 13.Jason Giambi 14.Alfonso Soriano 15.Raul Mondesi 16.Aaron Boone 17.Andy Pettitte 18.Jose Contreras 19.Roger Clemens These are the only Yankees? You-gotta-be-kiddin'-me! Farmer Ted Jun 29 2009 11:46 AM I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 11:48 AM "Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:50 AM ="Farmer Ted":3o2b1z4y]I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands.[/quote:3o2b1z4y] I wonder what Moistest Alou is doing these days. Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:52 AM ="bmfc1":3hsdd5wp]"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.[/quote:3hsdd5wp] I know. You'd think the list still would've only had him on there once. Did somebody go through the list of players on each team, find who was plausible, and put this together? (And simply forget that Burnitz was already on there)? Or perhaps Jeromy tested positive twice, once with each team. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:54 AM ="Gwreck":3pm0hlqj]Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.[/quote:3pm0hlqj] Thanks... I figured that I would miss a few. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:18 PM It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball. Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 12:58 PM anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either. Edgy DC Jun 29 2009 01:12 PM Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know. smg58 Jun 29 2009 01:17 PM Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 01:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 01:44 PM After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form. metirish Jun 29 2009 01:39 PM Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte] SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 01:41 PM ="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM ="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1]="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

I'd never heard that. Cool. I remember Minnesota infield Denny Hocking getting hurt after his hand got stepped on in an ALDS-winning celebration in 2002. Seems to me he missed the ALCS as a result.

Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.

="Benjamin Grimm":32eg1nc2]They might as well shut down the Hall of Fame for a decade or two.[/quote:32eg1nc2] I count 8 obvious HOF candidates plus two others: Pedro Martinez Roger Clemens Barry Bonds Sammy Sosa Rafael Palmeiro Manny Ramirez Alex Rodriguez Ivan Rodriguez Roberto Alomar (?) Gary Sheffield (?) bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 11:32 AM "Not counting Freddy Garcia and Bret Boone who were spring training Mets." As was Valerio de los Santos. Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03? Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:33 AM Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets. Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:44 AM ="bmfc1":355jydkl]Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?[/quote:355jydkl] The list appeared to be sorted by division and team, so you get Alomar, Cedeno, Burnitz and Floyd all listed together. Those are your '03 Mets. Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 11:45 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 11:48 AM ="bmfc1":n44vb3vz]"Not counting Freddy Garcia and Bret Boone who were spring training Mets." As was Valerio de los Santos. Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?[/quote:n44vb3vz] Hey, Art Howe ran a clean clubhouse!!! Meanwhile... 13.Jason Giambi 14.Alfonso Soriano 15.Raul Mondesi 16.Aaron Boone 17.Andy Pettitte 18.Jose Contreras 19.Roger Clemens These are the only Yankees? You-gotta-be-kiddin'-me! Farmer Ted Jun 29 2009 11:46 AM I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 11:48 AM "Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:50 AM ="Farmer Ted":3o2b1z4y]I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands.[/quote:3o2b1z4y] I wonder what Moistest Alou is doing these days. Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:52 AM ="bmfc1":3hsdd5wp]"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.[/quote:3hsdd5wp] I know. You'd think the list still would've only had him on there once. Did somebody go through the list of players on each team, find who was plausible, and put this together? (And simply forget that Burnitz was already on there)? Or perhaps Jeromy tested positive twice, once with each team. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:54 AM ="Gwreck":3pm0hlqj]Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.[/quote:3pm0hlqj] Thanks... I figured that I would miss a few. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:18 PM It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball. Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 12:58 PM anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either. Edgy DC Jun 29 2009 01:12 PM Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know. smg58 Jun 29 2009 01:17 PM Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 01:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 01:44 PM After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form. metirish Jun 29 2009 01:39 PM Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte] SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 01:41 PM ="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM ="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1]="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

Of course, Piazza was hurt for much of 2003...

The alleged 2003 Steroid List: http://rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 1.Nomar Garciaparra 2.Manny Ramirez 3.Johnny Damon 4.Trot Nixon 5.David Ortiz 6.Shea Hillenbrand 7.Derek Lowe 8.Pedro Martinez 9.Brian Roberts 10.Jay Gibbons 11.Melvin Mora 12.Jerry Hairston 13.Jason Giambi 14.Alfonso Soriano 15.Raul Mondesi 16. Aaron Boone 17.Andy Pettitte 18.Jose Contreras 19.Roger Clemens 20.Carlos Delgado 21.Vernon Wells 22.Frank Catalanotto 23.Kenny Rogers 24.Magglio Ordonez 25.Sandy Alomar 26.Bartolo Colon 27.Brent Abernathy 28.Jose Lima 29.Milton Bradley 30.Casey Blake 31.Danys Baez 32.Craig Monroe 33.Dmitri Young 34.Alex Sanchez 35.Eric Chavez 36.Miguel Tejada 37.Eric Byrnes 38.Jose Guillen 39.Keith Foulke 40.Ricardo Rincon 41.Bret Boone 42.Mike Cameron 43.Randy Winn 44.Ryan Franklin 45.Freddy Garcia 46.Rafael Soriano 47.Scott Spiezio 48.Troy Glaus 49.Francisco Rodriguez 50.Ben Weber 51.Alex Rodriguez 52.Juan Gonzalez 53.Rafael Palmeiro 54.Carl Everett 55.Javy Lopez 56.Gary Sheffield 57.Mike Hampton 58.Ivan Rodriguez 59.Derrek Lee 60.Bobby Abreu 61.Terry Adams 62.Fernando Tatis 63.Livan Hernandez 64.Hector Almonte 65.Tony Armas 66.Dan Smith 67.Roberto Alomar 68.Cliff Floyd 69.Roger Cedeno 70.Jeromy Burnitz 71.Moises Alou 72.Sammy Sosa 73.Corey Patterson 74.Carlos Zambrano 75.Mark Prior 76.Kerry Wood 77.Matt Clement 78.Antonio Alfonseca 79.Juan Cruz 80.Aramis Ramirez 81.Craig Wilson 82.Kris Benson 83.Richie Sexson 84.Geoff Jenkins 85.Valerio de los Santos 86.Benito Santiago 87.Rich Aurilia 88.Barry Bonds 89.Andres Galarraga 90.Jason Schmidt 91.Felix Rodriguez 92.Jason Christiansen 93.Matt Herges 94.Paul Lo Duca 95.Shawn Green 96.Jeromy Burnitz 97.Adrian Beltre 98.Eric Gagne 99.Guillermo Mota 100.Luis Gonzalez 101.Todd Helton 102.Ryan Klesko 103.Gary Matthews 104.Oliver Perep

themetfairy wrote: "A magnificent foul" by Nick Swisher. Morgan makes my ears bleed. In fairness that was Miller. (Also makes my ears bleed).

Edgy DC wrote: I'm in a tinkernig mood, so I'm going to suggest they respond to the Churchless Sunday by boppping Castillo up to leadoff, dropping Moiphy to third, and bumping Wright and Sheffield back. I assume that Reed comes in and bats eighth. I would've hit Reed leadoff. Murphy 5th. Martinez and Tatis on the pine.

Sheffield 1

Box Score[/url:2foy4q6y]

Santana 4 Evans 2 Feliciano 1 Rodriguez 1 Castillo .62 Wright .62 Tatis .61

Nieve 2.5 Wright 1.5 Church 1.5 Evans 1.5 Tatis 1.5 Schneider 1 Stokes .16 Misch .17 Parnell. 17

Hernandez 3.5 Dessens 2 Reed .5

Frayed Knot wrote: There was a "study" on some fantasy site that listed the HRs that weren't at Citi that would have been at Shea (a bunch including 6 for Wright). And there were two HRs that would NOT have been at Shea but were at CF - both by Chase Utley. Yeah, Gary talked about that. And I knew what he was referring to. It doesn't make the call any more acceptable.

On that home run, Gary Cohen just referred to the right field corner as "Utley's Corner." Seriously? WTF?

He's 6-7 and probably 330 lbs. How much do you think he'd have to weight to actually fill out that uniform?

I would've been fine with using Livan Hernandez there.

Pelfrey finally with a 1-2-3 inning. The Mets could really use some baserunners this time through the order, especially as they haven't had one yet.

Hamels ejected from that game for arguing balls and strikes.