nymr83

Can't be me either, not enough cursing.

Pelfrey among them i think. and hey if you can get that deal for yourself good for you, i have no idea why that would make you a bad attitude guy.

being a DH should count against you- because you provided no defensive benefits and you received the benefit of being able to pile up numbers while not having the wear and tear of playing the field every day. DHs should NOT be excluded from the HOF but their offensive standard need to be higher than a 1B/LF type just as a 1B/LF type should be held to a higher offensive standard than a C/SS. edit-spelling. I'm Tom Glavine and i blew this post.

Miller doesn't belong in any HOF unless its the organized labor hall of fame. Kuhn doesnt belong anywhere near the place either. what makes Doug Harvey "the 2nd best umpire of all-time" Val?

metsmarathon wrote: does the situation improve if we look at OPS+? i mean, prolly not by much, but it could make for an ever so slightly rosier picture. yeah, we do play in the NL's 2nd or 3rd best pitchers park after all

SteveJRogers wrote: Mark Healy suggests that he could be Grote good! this is Healey's normal crap filled with his classified top-secret trustworthy inside sources. oh and what were you reading steve? i don't see a comparison to grote or really anything other than briefly calling him "gold glove caliber"

i'm not a big church fan but who else will it be, and why would omar trade milledge for him if not to start him? was this deal really just about brian schneider? with castro just resigned? estrada around? loduca available? torrealba rejected? thats sad.

i cant imagine church being part of a package, is there really another team out there that told omar "we don't want milledge, get church instead and then we'll talk"? i have to doubt that. and who is the starting rightfielder if not church? Green? Chavez? Fukudome?

DocTee wrote: Randy Wolf to Pods-- one year, $4 Million. wouldn't have minded him in Blue and Orange this summer sounds pretty cheap and only 1 year? if omar wasn't so busy trading 22 year old prospects for 31 year old slap hitting catchers he could have gotten in on this

i think we can call green/maclane a success because so far maclane has been bad even in the minors. its not like it looks like he's going to come around any time soon and pitch well in the majors. on the other hand, if we a hypothetical trade where we received a shawn green caliber player for a 21 year old pitcher who in 2007 made 25 starts in AA with a 3:1 SO:BB ratio we could say the trade was NOT a success so far even though the other guy had yet to appear in the majors.

="Fman99"]I find this deal odious. I find it odorous!

]Burger King Application Name: Minaya, Omar position you are seeking: General Manager Work Experience General Manager, Montreal Expos -traded Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore, and Cliff Lee for 17 starts by Bartolo Colon -traded Colon for el duque and 2 nobodies General Manager, New York Mets -managed large payroll -experience dealing with media -oversaw worst collapse in national league history in all seriousness though i'll judge him now for this BAD trade. if theres a bigger picture or something (say he turns church around for haren) i'll apologize then.

very fair point.

seawolf17 wrote: I loved that time when he ran down the right-field line, high-fiving the fans. Loved it. We'll miss you, Lastings. that was the memory i would have posted too. i feel like that enthusiasm went away FAST

from the other thred: ]MINAYA ON WFAN. (i'm paraphrasing here and there but not distorting the content) Mike: what is church's role? Minaya: everyday player. (cites counting stats) Mad dog: he only did that once Minaya:exciting to give him the chance Minaya:i think those numbers could improve, remember this was in a big ballpark in washington minaya: good numbers, (admits difference in age) but says church will produce better numbers with the opportunity to drive in runs Mike: why make mota deal if you're gonna do this? Minaya: fair to say it was a salary dump, gave us an option going forward Mike: why no loduca, any worries about torrealba lawsuit against you which was rumored? Minaya: no worries about that, we agreed with agent not to discuss the reason why it didnt work out. Dog: anything to do with the mitchell report? Minaya: no. Mike: loduca? Minaya: its about how we are building our team going forward...yadayada...about speed, defense, loduca did a good job, loduca better offensively than schnieder but schneider's defense is what we need. had nothing to do with loduca's off the field conduct. Minaya: we hadda change things up with how the season ended last year Minaya: the way the team is setup now i'm a big believer in being strong (defensively) up the middle Dog: get a big pitcher in trade? do you have enough prospects? Minaya: there are pitchers being shopped i cant named them, we're talking, clubs have interest in our players. pitchers like defense so they'll want to come here Mike: any problem with wagner's comments Minaya: talked to him, told him to watch what he says, says wagner was then pleased with omar's explanations Dog: do yank moves put pressure on you? Minaya: no. Minaya: we should have won more games last yeat, trade "changes things up some." "i like our team the way it is right now" only difference is we lost glavine and added pedro martinez (for a full year- haha) and church, we will hopefully work in the winter meetings, i do believe there'll be other pieces of this team. Mike: reyes untouchable? Minaya: reyes part of nucleus/core, one of best young players in game, not trading reyes. Dog: (question about milledge's stock) Minaya: hes been considered a big prospect, we have other big prospects, a couple of years ago if you told me we'd make this trade i'd be happy to get an outfielder who will produce and who we control for 4 years. "tough deal for me to make" "good baseball trade for both sides" -end interview-

i voted i hate it. mike and the dog are done talking to minaya, i posted most of the interview in my post above, any comments?

who voted that they like it?

MINAYA ON WFAN. (i'm paraphrasing here and there but not distorting the content) Mike: what is church's role? Minaya: everyday player. (cites counting stats) Mad dog: he only did that once Minaya:exciting to give him the chance Minaya:i think those numbers could improve, remember this was in a big ballpark in washington minaya: good numbers, (admits difference in age) but says church will produce better numbers with the opportunity to drive in runs Mike: why make mota deal if you're gonna do this? Minaya: fair to say it was a salary dump, gave us an option going forward Mike: why no loduca, any worries about torrealba lawsuit against you which was rumored? Minaya: no worries about that, we agreed with agent not to discuss the reason why it didnt work out. Dog: anything to do with the mitchell report? Minaya: no. Mike: loduca? Minaya: its about how we are building our team going forward...yadayada...about speed, defense, loduca did a good job, loduca better offensively than schnieder but schneider's defense is what we need. had nothing to do with loduca's off the field conduct. Minaya: we hadda change things up with how the season ended last year Minaya: the way the team is setup now i'm a big believer in being strong (defensively) up the middle Dog: get a big pitcher in trade? do you have enough prospects? Minaya: there are pitchers being shopped i cant named them, we're talking, clubs have interest in our players. pitchers like defense so they'll want to come here Mike: any problem with wagner's comments Minaya: talked to him, told him to watch what he says, says wagner was then pleased with omar's explanations Dog: do yank moves put pressure on you? Minaya: no. Minaya: we should have won more games last yeat, trade "changes things up some." "i like our team the way it is right now" only difference is we lost glavine and added pedro martinez (for a full year- haha) and church, we will hopefully work in the winter meetings, i do believe there'll be other pieces of this team. Mike: reyes untouchable? Minaya: reyes part of nucleus/core, one of best young players in game, not trading reyes. Dog: (question about milledge's stock) Minaya: hes been considered a big prospect, we have other big prospects, a couple of years ago if you told me we'd make this trade i'd be happy to get an outfielder who will produce and who we control for 4 years. "tough deal for me to make" "good baseball trade for both sides" -end interview-

i'm looking at this as Milledge and Estrada for Church and Schneider because with Castro's recent contract you have to assume Estrada is not going to be offered arb. now, this looks like a really dumb deal and i'm waiting to here omar's BS reasons for making it. I have to think the real reason is a dislike of milledge (his attitude, his work ethic, etc)

Another hall question- has Craig Biggio hurt his legacy by sticking around and sucking the last 2 years? or does getting to the arbitrary number of 3000 hits make up for the suckiness? This is why I think counting stats should never be a barometer for the HOF, Biggio has (i'd guess) upped his chances of induction by getting to 3,000 hits when in reality the last 2 years should have lowered his chances. Put another way, if you had 2 players (Biggio 1988-2005 and Biggio 1988-2007) which one would be more deserving of induction? you'd be nuts not to say the first one (although both shouldget in) but the people who actually have votes seem to give credit for sticking around to reach "milestones" instead of subtracting credit for bad years.

i'm all for unconventional pitcher usage, but i think a better (and not necessarily inconsistent, you can do both) idea would be to start using starters on their "throw" days in relief. So if Maine pitched Monday and won't pitch again until Saturday I'd put him in the game on Wednesday or Thursday instead of bringing in some middle reliever we don't really trust anyway. Over the course of the season this could lead to 50 extra innings by guys you like taken away from the worst pitchers on the team.

i don't think they'd even have to go that far, the "problem" with baseball reference is that we only see years in which a player did something. but i'm sure that for pension purposes and whatever else all you need to do is be on the roster not appear in a game. Our hypothetocal player X could easily spend a day in september on the expanded roster, broken leg and all.

if [ujols got hurt tommorow he's been that good that i'd want to see him in the hall. ichiro aint even close on his 7 years

skirted? where is Joss' tenth year?

you lost me at "excel"