Benjamin Grimm

Here's how the Mets signing of Wagner is being covered in Philadelphia. From the Philadelphia Inquirer: ]Wagner: Phils not committed fully to winning By Jim Salisbury Inquirer Staff Writer NEW YORK - On his first day as New York Mets closer, Billy Wagner came out throwing heat at his old team. He trashed the Phillies' commitment to winning, wondered about their plan for this season, and said he'd likely still be with the club if it had been willing to give him a three-year, $24 million contract in July. Instead, he officially became a Met yesterday, signing a four-year, $43 million contract that, according to agent Bean Stringfellow, easily topped the Phillies' best offer. "The Mets are trying to win a World Series," Wagner said at Shea Stadium. "I felt like this was the right place to be." And about the team 100 miles down the road? "There's a difference between winning and being competitive," Wagner said. "In the end, I thought [the Phillies] were more interested in being competitive than winning. "My goal is to get to the Hall of Fame and win a World Series. There's no doubt [Mets] ownership has resources and a competitive edge. They'll do whatever it takes to win. That's a huge plus." Wagner, 34, leaned heavily toward the Mets after receiving a three-year, $30.25 million offer during a red-carpet visit to New York last week. He became convinced that the Mets were his team when they guaranteed a fourth year, added an option for a fifth, and gave him a full no-trade clause Monday morning. "We heard the Phillies had scheduled a conference call with Billy for [Monday] afternoon and that ownership was ready to review its offer," said Jeff Wilpon, the Mets' chief operating officer. "That's when we added a fourth year." Wagner was so impressed with the Mets' offer that he had Stringfellow cancel the conference call with the Phillies, who, sources say, were ready to raise their offer and add a fourth-year option. "I knew they wouldn't match all the Mets had done," Wagner said of his decision not to speak one last time with the Phillies. "They were still worried about age and all that stuff organizations worry about." According to Stringfellow, the Phillies' best offer was three years and $25.5 million. Stringfellow said the value of the contract could have risen to just over $30 million with incentives based on games finished. Wagner was not surprised that the Phillies weren't more aggressive. "Not considering I gave them three for 24 [three years and $24 million] at the trade deadline and they laughed at me," he said. Phillies assistant general manager Ruben Amaro took umbrage with that comment. "That's untrue," he said by telephone from Philadelphia. "No one laughed. The reason we were taken aback was that his original asking price was two years and $16 million. When we offered that, the asking price changed to three years at $24 million." The Phillies were unwilling to offer three years in July because Wagner turned 34 that month and the team had concerns about the long-term health of his left shoulder. Wagner had spent time on the disabled list with a strained shoulder in 2004. Like his predecessor, Ed Wade, new general manager Pat Gillick made keeping Wagner a top priority. Gillick improved the Phillies' offer to three years and was willing to add a fourth-year option, but it wasn't enough. "If Pat had gotten there earlier, I think he could have gotten something done," Wagner said. "He didn't have much time." Gillick and Wagner had one face-to-face meeting and the pitcher, at the time, said he was impressed with the new GM's plan. Yesterday, Wagner made an about-face. "For me, the question I had all along was I wanted to know their plan for getting relief and starting pitching and they really didn't have answers because Pat just got there," Wagner said. "While the Phillies were getting rid of one guy, the Mets were buying up talent, and that's hard to overlook." The "talent" Wagner referred to is slugger Carlos Delgado, whom the Mets picked up the same day the Phillies traded Jim Thome to the White Sox last week. Wagner has 284 career saves, 59 of which came with the Phillies in the last two years. His legacy in Philadelphia may end up being the left-field wall at Citizens Bank Park. He frequently complained about it being too close. This week, construction crews will begin moving the wall back. Wagner, at times, also complained about how close fans were allowed to get to the bullpens in Philadelphia, and how they would deride relievers during the game. As a Met, he will play three series a year in Philadelphia. "I'm sure I'll be treated the same way everyone else is," Wagner said. "I'll be heckled. The fans there are passionate. They're going to think I ran to the money - which I guess they would have passed up - but I get heckled in every park. It's part of the game."

I think too much is made of this church and state thing, and I'm as unreligious as they come. I say "God bless you" when someone sneezes, although it doesn't mean anything to me. Even though I don't believe in Yahweh, I accept the God in "God bless you" and "God Bless America" and "God willing" etc. as an allegorical God. It doesn't offend me at all. When the September 11 attacks occurred, it was "God Bless America" that everyone wanted to hear and sing. Even though it's not official, for all practical purposes, it is our National Anthem.

sharpie wrote: Better yet, dispense with God Bless America entirely. Dreary song. Really? I like it much better than The Star Spangled Banner.

Good point. I wouldn't like being forced to do that at my workplace either. However, Delgado's job and workplace has a whole public relations aspect that mine doesn't have. If I don't recite the Pledge before I sit down at my desk, the media won't be all over the story. But the Mets shouldn't be fearing the media. They should let Carlos do his thing. And they probably should reserve the patriotic 7th-inning stretch displays for July 4 and Memorial Day.

Edgy DC wrote: Ron Hodges was in on this!? Huh? What? Really? Explain!

I voted "Eh." I think the Mets should let him do (or not do) whatever he wants, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them "Unamerican."

They're behaving like the Yankees, yes. And hopefully it will lead to the same kind of success. I'd take six pennants in ten years, even without the four World's Championships. (I'd want at least one or two, though.) But that doesn't make them the Yankees. As long as they don't start calling Shea a cathedral, and start talking about the magical properties of the uniform, and all that nonsense, they won't be the Yankees. It's not just the big-spending that makes the Yankees hateful. There's so much more, and I can't imagine the Mets taking on that personality, or "aura."

Marathon is correct. The true Unamerican thing for the Mets to do would be to tell Delgado that he can't voice his opinions when he's out of uniform.

Another bonus is that by getting Delgado and Wagner, the Mets weaken two divison rivals. (Is Rafael Furcal next?) I guess the late offer from Boston didn't do much to turn Wagner's head.

I guess that means that Omar and Bernazard didn't speak Spanish to Wagner when they went to visit him in Virginia. Probably a wise decision. This is a busy November for the Mets.

Well, since just about every Met is being listed in this thread, I didn't want old Dwight to be left out. I think this thread has gotten way off course. It isn't "Mets that I've liked a lot or a little" it's "Most beloved Met of all time." I take that to mean "Who does the assembled ranks of Mets fandom love more than anybody else?" There really shouldn't be more than a half dozen names in the conversation.

Dwight Bernard.

Betzaida. That's a name I've never heard before. If they call her "Betz" it rhymes with Mets. (Might be useful if we ever do a wives song parody contest.)

Rico? Really?

I guess it wasn't "street Spanish."

1. Mookie 2. Tug 3. A virtual tie among about fifty other guys.

Oh, I know they're all strangers. It's just that I'd rather win with guys who've been around for a while, or who will be around for a while. But as I said above (I think) I'd rather win with the strangers than lose with the familiar faces.

I can think of two movies that I've seen in the last few years where the audience was predominently silver-haired: Grizzly Man and Far From Heaven. Far From Heaven was kind of a chick flick for old ladies. My best guess about Grizzly Man is that it was playing in a class restored theater.

I'm seeing a pattern here in Edgy's picks. They were all Capricorns, I think.

ScarletKnight41 wrote: Tug McGraw, who was the only person in history truly beloved in both New York and Philadelphia. Tug was the second name I thought of. He's less "pure" than Mookie though, because so many think of him as a Phillie. As for the New York/Philadelphia thing, the only other name I can think of is Lenny Dykstra. (And maybe Julius Erving?)

As soon as I saw the title of this thread, one and only one name popped into my head: Mookie Wilson.

I forgot about Trachsel. Trachsel feels like a Met by now too.

At what point do the Mets stop looking like Mets and start looking like the American League All-Star team? Winning a World Series with Manny, Beltran, Delgado, Pedro, and Molina, plus NLers like Glavine and Benson and Floyd, wouldn't mean as much as it did in 1969 or 1986, when so many of the players were either home-grown or long-timers. I guess Glavine and Floyd have been around for a while now, but the only players on the team who really seem like Mets are Reyes and Wright, as well as Heilman and Seo. I do like seeing them get great players, and I'd much rather see them win than lose, but I wonder if we're going to far, if we're getting to a point where we're rooting for a bunch of strangers.

Do we even know that the tapes weren't just reused and taped over?

It's been more than a dozen years since I've done any fantasy baseballing, and I was a little tempted to jump in, but realistically, I'd probably be one of those who lose interest by Mother's Day, so I'll pass.