The Jim Gosger Photo

[batmagadanleadoff]

What's the deal with this photograph?



It's of Jim Gosger. He's wearing #18. That means that the picture's from 1969. But here's the thing: The Mets didn't wear their skyline logo patch during the '69 regular season. At home, they wore the NL centennial patch on the left sleeve, and no patch on the right sleeve.

For the post-season, the Mets home unis had the skyline logo patch on the left, as shown in the photo, and the NL centennial patch on the right side. But Gosger wasn't on the post-season roster.

So what's the deal?

[batmagadanleadoff]

What's the deal with this photograph? It's of Jim Gosger. He's wearing #18. That means that the picture's from 1969. But here's the thing: The Mets didn't wear their skyline logo patch during the '69 regular season. At home, they wore the NL centennial patch on the left sleeve, and no patch on the right sleeve. For the post-season, the Mets home unis had the skyline logo patch on the left, as shown in the photo, and the NL centennial patch on the right side. But Gosger wasn't on the post-season roster. So what's the deal?

And that doesn't look like a post-season crowd anyways -- too many kids in too many choice seats.

Possibilities:

The Mets wore the skyline patch during the '69 regular season for some games. (Not likely, yet it's the most plausible explanation)
That's Dave Marshall instead of Jim Gosger. (less likely)

[Benjamin Grimm]

Is that Shea Stadium? Or could it be a spring training game?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Is that Shea Stadium? Or could it be a spring training game?

That's definitely Shea Stadium. Besides, the Mets didn't acquire Gosger until July of '69.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Could it be from 73? Who's the guy in the dugout?

[batmagadanleadoff]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Could it be from 73? Who's the guy in the dugout?

Can't be '73 because that's Agee in the dugout, even though he looks more like Ike Hampton.

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Could it be from 73? Who's the guy in the dugout? Can't be '73 because that's Agee in the dugout, even though he looks more like Ike Hampton.

Does Gosger's uniform look more like flannels or more like polyester double-knits? If it's double-knit, then that picture ain't from '69. That's a possibility. This would mean that you'd have to update the uniform history. Maybe that would explain why George Theodore switched from 18 to 9 mid-season '73. Maybe Gosger wanted his old 18 back. But then who's the guy in the dugout? If it's a '73 photo, the guy can't be Agee and Hampton didn't debut until '74. Hampton was a September call-up, and by then Benny Ayala had 18. So the pieces don't fit. Unless that guy in the dugout is somebody other than Agee or Hampton.

[Guest themetfairy]

Could he have participated in an Oldtimer's Day game?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Could Ike Hampton have been a phantom 1973 Met?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Could it be from 73? Who's the guy in the dugout? Can't be '73 because that's Agee in the dugout, even though he looks more like Ike Hampton. Does Gosger's uniform look more like flannels or more like polyester double-knits? If it's double-knit, then that picture ain't from '69. That's a possibility. This would mean that you'd have to update the uniform history. Maybe that would explain why George Theodore switched from 18 to 9 mid-season '73. Maybe Gosger wanted his old 18 back. But then who's the guy in the dugout? If it's a '73 photo, the guy can't be Agee and Hampton didn't debut until '74. Hampton was a September call-up, and by then Benny Ayala had 18. So the pieces don't fit. Unless that guy in the dugout is somebody other than Agee or Hampton.

I think you're onto something. I've been so bamboozled as to the date Theodore switched numbers I went and asked him personally although he didn;t know (he couldn't even remember when he switched, which would suggest the switch wasn't his decision).

The guy in the dugout looks dark skinned, but it could be Jerry May, who was on the roster and assigned #20 in June of 73. Gosger's sideburns also more 73 than 69 I would say.

This is 73 and Gosger was 18.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Does a wider crop tell you anything?:

[batmagadanleadoff]

That's really on the dark side for Jerry May. The guy looks like he's wearing glasses, just like Ike Hampton, who was also a #20.
I think that the Ike Hampton as a '73 phantom Met might be a possibility.

[batmagadanleadoff]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Does a wider crop tell you anything?:

[fimg=777]https://goldinauctions.com/ItemImages/000005/5537e1_lg.jpeg[/fimg]

That picture's sharper. I embiggened it to look for more clues.

[fimg=333]https://pccdn.perfectchannel.com/christies/live/images/item/VintageFilmPosters25099/5812424/original/CSK_10275_0069.jpg[/fimg]

[batmagadanleadoff]

Could that be Milner in #28? If so, that would eliminate '69.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Milner looked leaner and darker than that guy.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Jerry May wore his undershirt sleeves the same length as the Mystery Dugout Man. Same short torso too

[Centerfield]

The guy in the pinkish shirt in the second row is sportin' the burns too. Looks like .73.

[batmagadanleadoff]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Jerry May wore his undershirt sleeves the same length as the Mystery Dugout Man. Same short torso too

Yeah, but May didn't wear his skin like dugout guy did.



Hey --where'd you get that May picture? It's supposed to have a Topps Vault watermark!

[batmagadanleadoff]

Centerfield wrote: The guy in the pinkish shirt in the second row is sportin' the burns too. Looks like .73.

You think that sideburns weren't in in '69?

[fimg=533]http://cdn8.openculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/joe-cocker1.jpg[/fimg]

[batmagadanleadoff]

Here's a shot of Gosger. The custom card is '69 style but the photo, according to the Topps Vault, is from 1973. Take note of Gosger's sideburns action.

[fimg=444:p2v9gr8v]http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n63/simarc/1960s/1969Mets/Jim_Gosger-1969_zps9d321ff0.jpg[/fimg:p2v9gr8v]

[batmagadanleadoff]

On the other, hand, it looks like Gosger was sporting sideburns in 1970, as well.

[fimg=444:1mwa61m1]http://caimages.collectors.com/psacertimages/56005_943x1597.jpg[/fimg:1mwa61m1]

[batmagadanleadoff]

But not with the Pilots in '69.

[fimg=444:1opngytl]http://www.mainlineautographs.com/images/product_pics/1201199599357seagosg_20080421617.jpg[/fimg:1opngytl]

[fimg=644:1opngytl]http://jaynachman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Gosger-Baseball-Cards-Copy.jpg[/fimg:1opngytl]

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

It's 73 I'm certain. I just tried calling him up to confirm but phone number published online is disconnected.

Lives in Port Huron Mich.

I need to know this NOW!!!!

[batmagadanleadoff]

I think it's '73, too. The more I look at the photo, the more the uniform looks double knit polyester to me. Also, I think the uni would be baggier or looser fitting if it was a '69 uni. And '73 would explain the skyline logo patch, too.

We just gotta figure out who dugout guy is. You say May. I think it looks a lot like Ike. But that would mean he was a '73 phantom.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Did Gil Hodges have a rule against sideburns?

[batmagadanleadoff]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Milner looked leaner and darker than that guy.

Yeah, I agree. I just threw that out there for consideration.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I'm pretty sure that dugout guy's wearing glasses.

[fimg=555:10yoapq4]https://goldinauctions.com/ItemImages/000005/5537e1_lg.jpeg[/fimg:10yoapq4]

[fimg=555:10yoapq4]http://stvivona.webs.com/photos/-Mets/ike.jpg[/fimg:10yoapq4]

[Edgy MD]

I could convince myself that's George Theodore, if I squint hard enough, but I don't recall Theodore ever coming to the plate without his glasses, and photo evidence supports this.

Maybe Gosger got a temporary uni assignment for the Mayor's Trophy Game, which was at Shea that year. That's s t r e t c h, but maybe.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: I could convince myself that's George Theodore, if I squint hard enough, but I don't recall Theodore ever coming to the plate without his glasses, and photo evidence supports this. Maybe Gosger got a temporary uni assignment for the Mayor's Trophy Game, which was at Shea that year. That's s t r e t c h, but maybe.

It can't be Theodore. The batter's batting from the left side. Look at the batter's hands: the right hand is below the left hand. Besides, his body language says lefty. A righty would't be in that position coming out of the box.

It wouldn't make sense for Gosger to get a temporary uniform for the MT game. He'd been with the team since the beginning of the month, when rosters expanded. The MT game was played at the very end of the season, around 9/27/69.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I can't find any evidence that Ike Hampton was a '73 phantom Met. But dugout guy looks a lot more like Hampton than May, or anybody, really.
If it's Hampton, then the picture's from Sept. '74, without any proof to support the phantom theory. So then you gotta explain what Benny Ayala was wearing on the date of the Gosger photo.


The Jerry May theory is the cleanest way to date the picture to '73, but dugout guy looks nothing like May. And why would dugout guy's face and arms appear so dark? You can't blame that on the poor dugout lighting conditions because every other Caucasian in the dugout appears a lot lighter than dugout guy.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Guest