Met Financial Picture in Fifteen

[Edgy MD]

I've already spoken to that last point. Your amazing response was that you were being forbidden from being critical.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: I've already spoken to that last point. Your amazing response was that you were being forbidden from being critical.

I take it back. Apparently, I'm not forbidden. Discouraged, perhaps. I don't know. Please forgive me.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Below is Grantland's short Maddening Mets piece, apart of a collection on baseball's most intriguing story lines. I posted this piece here in the finance thread because unless you cover the Mets daily, or almost daily, it's irresponsible to write about the team without referencing their terrible financial situation -- which Grantland, to their credit, does. For comparison's sake, you might want to read the section on the Astros remarkable transformation, going from a historically bad team, to perhaps, the best team in baseball, all in two years. It's a stark contrast to the Mets, who are run by incompetents, and not just because they got Madoffed. This ownership hasn't had one original baseball thought ever, bumbling and meddling their way through a half assed rebuild. If they weren't so concerned about what the people who tune into Mike Francesca think, they might've let Alderson tear down the team in 2012, making the difficult decision to cut ties with their great star David Wright.

The Maddening Mets Michael Baumann: If it proves to be even remotely real, what the Mets have done with pitching prospects over the past few years has to stand out as one of the most impressive player development feats in recent memory. Jacob deGrom, Matt Harvey, Noah Syndergaard, and Steven Matz are all pre-arbitration starters whose stuff and performance merit the front-end starter mantle, though the latter two still have something to prove. Producing four young pitchers of this quality at the same time would be impressive enough if (1) any of them other than Syndergaard was supposed to be this good, and (2) the Mets didn�t have two other quality major league starters in the rotation. By season�s end we could look at this rotation as the best in baseball, and when a team has a front four that good, that young, and that outrageously underpaid, the hard part of constructing a contender is done. Or it would be if the Mets weren�t as bad at everything else as they are good at producing starting pitching. Their offense � and I can think of no more damning criticism in 2015 � is Phillies-like, both quantitatively and qualitatively. Ordinarily, a big-market team would be able to throw money at this problem by acquiring veteran hitters (and it wouldn�t take much of a hitter to upgrade what the Mets have) or by signing one or more of its young pitchers to a contract extension, thereby earning more time to fix the offense internally. But the Mets aren�t an ordinary big-market team, because their owners, the Wilpon family, were swindled into relative pauperism by Bernie Madoff, and have committed other sins that are worse morally but less impactful on the field. In order to attract top talent to New York � or anywhere, really � a team needs not only money but goodwill, or at least the impression that the franchise is run competently. (The Knicks striking out in free agency last week is proof of that.) The Mets, unfortunately, have neither of those things, and GM Sandy Alderson might have already made his fatal mistake by signing Michael Cuddyer instead of a quality veteran hitter last offseason. The Mets have done the hardest part of building a World Series contender. The juxtaposition of that and what�s left undone makes them fascinating.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-shootaround-10-most-intriguing-second-half-story-lines/

I started a new Finance thread because I couldn't find any of the other ones. The prickly search engine must be on summer vacation today, turning up barely half a dozen articles with the word "Megdal".

[Ceetar]

oh god that's bad.

come on, the Knicks and the Mets are apples and oranges for a variety of reasons.

and if you don't think Michael Cuddyer is synonymous with quality veteran hitter you clearly don't watch baseball.

[Edgy MD]

The search engine seemingly won't come up with a link that's less than a year old. It's been like that since the start of June, I think. Its productivity seems to correlate with the Mets.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: The search engine seemingly won't come up with a link that's less than a year old. It's been like that since the start of June, I think. Its productivity seems to correlate with the Mets.

Whew. Because I was beginning to wonder whether the words "Madoff" and "Megdal" were programmed into unsearchable terms.

[MFS62]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Whew. Because I was beginning to wonder whether the words "Madoff" and "Megdal" were programmed into unsearchable terms.

They will ever be united, like Jonestown and Kool-Aid.

Later

[Guest d'Kong76]

Seems they just keep writing the same thing over and over. I sup-
pose it's partially OK to keep updating and changing some words
and names around because no moves have been made to bolster
the offense yet. But jeez, it's the same tired drum. And there is
still plenty of time left until the trading deadline.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: If they weren't so concerned about what the people who tune into Mike Francesca think, they might've let Alderson tear down the team in 2012, making the difficult decision to cut ties with their great star David Wright.

Why Francessa's show; has it been documented that his show in
particular is monitored and the course of business is directly con-
ducted by what comes out of his fat face and his sheep? C'mon.
Were you clamoring for this in 2012? I don't really recall a cut-
ties-with-David-and-continue-the-rebuild-without-him campaign
by too many people. I could be wrong. I'd have to see it in black
and white to believe it.

To rehash, not signing him after losing Jose would have been the
final dagger in the heart of half of Mets Nation after all they'd been
through. The Wilponhateclub* gets it both ways though, don't they?
Don't sign him, cheap. Sign him, cheap (but un-original, bumbling,
meddling and half-assed).

* used solely for effect, no one here likes the Wilpons.

[Edgy MD]

That article is more flattering than it is indicting, at least over the first two paragraphs.

The thesis we come around to by the third paragraph, that the Mets are failing to sign free agents in a large part because of their image, is surreal. As if the Mets were hotly pursuing Scherzer, but he went in a different direction because of the classier organization that Washington offered.

[ashie62]

Its no too late to get a slugger.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Edgy MD wrote: That article is more flattering than it is indicting, at least over the first two paragraphs.

I don't find..

If it proves to be even remotely real

the Mets weren�t as bad at everything else

... remotely flattering.

It comes off as all-too-typical, hey this is the Mets we're talking
about, not the Yankees or NY Football Giants. Much like you will
hear on Mr. Francessa's show.

Mileage may vary. Do people get paid to write at ESPN's Grantland
Enterprises or is it some kind of other setup?

[Edgy MD]

Well, certainly they aren't remotely flattering, but those are the indicting bits.

(Merged with the parent thread.)

[Frayed Knot]

I think we've just found our new all-purpose acronym: QVH - a Quality Veteran Hitter
Definitions of such will be a little tough to pin down although after the fact vision of one will be 20/20 as always.

[ashie62]

Cuddyer is no longer a quality veteran hitter.

He is Jason Bay 2.0

Edited July 9, 2015 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

I may be wrong, but I think you are quoting my post, but seemingly speaking to a point contained elsewhere.

[ashie62]

Fixed, sorry Edgeward.

[batmagadanleadoff]

And now, a word from your old friend, HM ...

On a budget, the Mets go for broke
By Howard Megdal 8:33 p.m. | Jul. 31, 2015

There are reasons to be deeply concerned about the way the last week transpired for the New York Mets. But general manager Sandy Alderson, by completing his third and biggest trade Friday afternoon for outfielder Yoenis Cespedes, has relegated those concerns to 2016 and beyond. Mets ownership did not, in the end, provide a dollar of help beyond the money it had already budgeted, and is now recouping, from the injured David Wright and twice-suspended Jenrry Mejia. But the trade significantly improved the team anyway, and the Mets are in position to challenge the Nationals in the NL East. By dealing minor league pitchers Michael Fulmer and Luis Cessa on Friday afternoon, Alderson also served a public relations panacea to an outraged fan base after a deal for Carlos Gomez was scuttled at the last moment. Cespedes is a big bat and a big name, but without the salary obligation beyond 2015. For teams with real budgets, Gomez's 2016 salary was an asset, which is why he was quickly traded for a king's ransom on prospects after the Mets balked. Cespedes, however, is a free agent after the season. But that, of course, is a 2016 problem. For now, it's full speed ahead trying to secure a playoff berth, and Cespedes should help with that. On Gomez: the Mets asserted it was over concerns about his hip, while Milwaukee let it be known that the deal was cancelled over financial concerns from the Mets. Alderson forcefully denied this Friday afternoon, and the Mets have been uniform on this point on background as well. The subsequent actions certainly support the Brewers more than the Mets on this, however. The Mets, according to the Brewers, wanted some help with Gomez's $9 million salary in 2016. And once the deal fell apart, the Mets did not take on a penny in 2016 obligations this week. While failing to do so certainly doesn't prove the Brewers right, had the Mets subsequently added Jay Bruce and his $12 million 2016 salary, it would have dispelled at least the idea that they couldn't add that much salary. Moreover, the Brewers subsequently traded Gomez to the Astros, a notoriously finicky team about injury prevention, and it certainly stretches credibility to imagine the Astros okayed a damaged Gomez hip that the Mets, a team well known for, let's say, a more laissez faire approach to injuries found too problematic. So this is the opportunity cost, really, of not having the option to take on any contracts, or money generally. Gomez plays center field, while the Cespedes acquisition may push Curtis Granderson's far more limited defensive ability to center if Michael Cuddyer returns from a knee injury. But the Mets also could have added Cespedes and Gomez to an outfield in need of help in both center and a corner. There was always Jose Reyes to improve at shortstop, owed $22 million in 2016 and 2017. These were not, ultimately, things Sandy Alderson could do, and none of it would have pushed the team in the league's largest market, which owns its own TV network, into the top third of the league in payroll. All of which makes the upgrades Alderson did find even more remarkable. In Cespedes, the Mets added someone who instantly becomes their best hitter: a 125 OPS+ is just ahead of Lucas Duda's 121 and Curtis Granderson's 119. Juan Uribe and Kelly Johnson are league average hitters who can fill in credibly at positions of need like third base, second base and even first base and corner outfield in Johnson's case. And Tyler Clippard is not only a useful reliever, he specializes in getting lefties out, critical on a team lacking a true lefty specialist. That all of this came at the low, low cost of the money they'd recouped from David Wright's insured contract and the $2.39 million Mejia won't be paid in 2015 for missing all but 20 days of the season due to PED suspensions can even count as a victory itself, since ownership actually reinvested most of this already-budgeted money in the team. Presumably, the largely ironic shoutout Alderson gave to Fred Wilpon and his partners for this basic bit of treating the team like a baseball team and not merely a machine to help finance their parent company's debts drew laughter within a baseball ops department repeatedly asked to thread the thinnest of needles. Nevertheless, that's just what they've done. They won't recoup a pick when Cespedes leaves via free agency, of course, another reason teams prefer not to trade for players in their walk years. Teams around baseball, the Mets included, love Fulmer, who they had to give up to get Cespedes. And this Mets team will have to answer many of the same roster questions in 2016 without these rentals, while the way the Gomez deal fell apart leaves legitimate concern over just how much, if any resources, Mets ownership will give Alderson to address it all this winter, assuming additional players aren't surprisingly suspended or sufficiently injured to trigger additional insurance rebates. (Michael Cuddyer, here's looking at you.) But every one of these are 2016 and beyond problems. The 2015 Mets are three games out entering Friday's play, in striking distance of the division-leading Nationals, and as equipped for a pennant race as a team with these financial limitations could possibly be. For fans told since the day Bernie Madoff went bust to keep on waiting, that already qualifies as a cause for celebration.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/media/2015/07/8573189/budget-mets-go-broke#

[Ceetar]

The extra millions the Wilpons rake in from a playoff race/berth and the subsequent raise in revenue associated with ad prices and the like is pretty much going to clinch them never ever selling.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

At least he waited until the final graph to mention Madoff.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Adjusting for Megdalness, it's actually a pretty cogent set of points, with which I agree pretty much to the letter. Fulmer and Cessa is a pretty penny in 2015 prospect-yuan for a no-compensation-pick/no-hope-of-retention rental. Gomez would have solved a lineup problem AND relieved some pressure on Lagares (To rest? To heal, then move?) for next year, too, at below market rates, for the cost of a good-looking-but-not-fantastic-under-the-hood Wheeler and Flores, who-- heartstrings aside-- is pretty damn near move-him-to-anyone-who-still-believes-he's-a-long-term-starting-middle-infielder territory.

[Guest d'Kong76]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Adjusting for Megdalness, it's actually a pretty cogent set of points, with which I agree pretty much to the letter. Fulmer and Cessa is a pretty penny in 2015 prospect-yuan for a no-compensation-pick/no-hope-of-retention rental. Gomez would have solved a lineup problem AND relieved some pressure on Lagares (To rest? To heal, then move?) for next year, too, at below market rates, for the cost of a good-looking-but-not-fantastic-under-the-hood Wheeler and Flores, who-- heartstrings aside-- is pretty damn near move-him-to-anyone-who-still-believes-he's-a-long-term-starting-middle-infielder territory.

I think probably the best thing I've seen of his on the Mets.
Maybe The Bernster falling to the last sentence means he will
finally fall off his agenda-strewn coverage in the coming weeks.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I doubt that. The article is still soaked in speculation and relies almost entirely on interpretations of other people's reporting.

Really, was anyone here expecting a "sorry, guys, I was the wrong the whole time!" piece had they made a deal for Bruce instead?

[metsmarathon]

this year, gomez has the same OPS as daniel murphy, very nearly the same OBP and SLG. and while he's still a good defender, it seems he's dropped off of late.

the cost for him was a starting pitcher with promise who has performed at the major league level and with upside remaining, and a starting, albeit struggling, shortstop.

instead, we traded away two pieces unlikely to make an impact in our future club, for the player with the 13th highest fWAR in baseball (19th in bWAR), and who just so happens to have been as big a fish as any traded this year*.

given the choice ... i'd rather, so much rather, have cespedis this year, and still have flores and wheeler for the future, rather than have what's left of carlos gomez next year, but with neither flores nor wheeler, at the cost of two minor leaguers who are unlikely to make a meaningful major league contribution.

and it has nothing to do wit the finances, either. hell, i wouldn't be surprised if the reason gomez' hips scared us off is because of the possibility of snagging cespedis at a far better price.

[batmagadanleadoff]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Really, was anyone here expecting a "sorry, guys, I was the wrong the whole time!" piece had they made a deal for Bruce instead?

Oh you're killing me. What's the abbreviation for rolling on the floor laughing my ass off? I'm so bad at all that internet fancy lingo and stuff.


As if the Mets could afford Jay Bruce.


Howie nailed it. And then Leiter nailed it for recognizing that Howie nailed it in the first place.

Here's some Megdal sass that really hit home with me:

Presumably, the largely ironic shoutout Alderson gave to Fred Wilpon and his partners for this basic bit of treating the team like a baseball team and not merely a machine to help finance their parent company's debts drew laughter within a baseball ops department repeatedly asked to thread the thinnest of needles.

Because I can't tell you how fucking annoying it was to have to read all week long how segments of the mainstream press gave the Wilpons the thumbs up treatment for "allowing" Alderson to acquire Cespedes. Because, really, what the fuck did the Wilpons do? They didn't add any salary. In fact, by presumably pocketing the money from Wright's insurance policy, the Mets actually lowered the Spring Training payroll -- which is what I thought they'd do all along -- probably by trading Gee for prospects in a salary dump -- but Wheeler's injury foreclosed that option. So in the end, they didn't open up the wallet to get Cespedes. They didn't trade their top-tier prospects, either. (I'm not necessarily complaining here, just noting). What they did do is "allow" Alderson to deal prospects that weren't at the top of the deck. What other options were there? Did anyone expect Alderson to acquire a big bat by packaging Mayberry, Campbell and Alex Torres? So the Wilpons are now getting credit even though they once again, handcuffed their GM.

And then Megdal just shredded the idea that it was the Brewers that nixed the Gomez deal. Not that we know for sure what really happened, but from what we do know, and given how this franchise has been run for many years now, it's hard to believe that the Brewers puled out. Occam's Razor.

That article wouldn't have been any worse even if Madoff was mentioned in the first sentence. The imprint of the Mets dire financial situation is all over that transaction and in fact, every single thing that the FO does.

[Guest d'Kong76]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Oh you're killing me. What's the abbreviation for rolling on the floor laughing my ass off? I'm so bad at all that internet fancy lingo and stuff.

Generally it rofl or lmao... not a combo of the two! lol

[Ceetar]

nobody thinks the Brewers pulled out. One Milwaukee beat writer took a shot at the Mets an blamed finances, multiple other sources cite the hip. Statistics support the hip being an issue. Actual Gomez quotes support the hip being an issue. That's too risky for Wheeler. It's a negotiation. You could probably quibble about who said 'forget it' last, whether it was the Mets after seeing the medicals, or the Brewers after the Mets said 'not Wheeler', but it was pretty clearly about the hip and not finances, previous red flags or assumptions about the Mets finances aren't really necessary.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: it was pretty clearly about the hip and not finances, previous red flags or assumptions about the Mets finances aren't really necessary.

And you know this to be true because ........?

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: it was pretty clearly about the hip and not finances, previous red flags or assumptions about the Mets finances aren't really necessary. And you know this to be true because ........?

because of all the evidence and quotes? we'll never know the specifics, but it's a huge stretch to blame it on finances based on any of the information we have. It's pretty hard to spin 'degenerative hip issue'. Maybe he's flat out lying. The best lies are based in fact after all, and well, Gomez has a hip issue.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Ceetar wrote: Actual Gomez quotes support the hip being an issue.

This I didn't know. Kinda hard not to side with the horse's mouth on this one.

[Edgy MD]

Of course they could have afforded Bruce if he was their guy. He's scarcely more expensive than Cespedes prorated for two months.