Niese and Gee

[Edgy MD]

Having trouble getting around the thought, with every start by Niese and Gee, that they're pitching for their Mets lives right now. They started the season as the Mets two most reliable starters, but the last month or so, are looking like the two least.

A lot of jockeying and injuring will happen between now and next season, but with the pressure coming from below in Montero and Syndergaard and others and the pressure coming from without in Harvey and Hefner, there's going to be some thinning of the herd. If they don't deal off the big man, they are #s five and six in the Mets depth chart, while those below aren't expected to be kept at bay for long.

[*:1fobcr4j]Harvey[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]deGrom[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Wheeler[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Colon[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Niese[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Gee[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Hefner[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Montero[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Syndergaard[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Verrett[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Gorski[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Mazzoni[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Bowman[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Peavey[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Matz[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Pill[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Lara[/*:m:1fobcr4j]
[*:1fobcr4j]Ynoa[/*:m:1fobcr4j][/list:o:1fobcr4j]

That's probably not the way it is, but it's something like that, more or less.

Anyhow, go Niese!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Well, there's grumblings about both of them, health-wise.

I'd trade away Gee 1,000 times before I'd offer up Niese because I ultimately believe Niese has more ability and despite his woes has been much more durable. Gee is obviously an asset when he;'s going well but getting hurt for 6 weeks then coming back off the ASB and getting your ass munched in three straight starts has really been SHaMicidal.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I also would rather keep Niese than Gee. Of course, Niese might very well bring a better return, so there's that.

Also, from what I've been reading lately, I think Matz may be considerably higher than 15th on the depth chart.

[TransMonk]

It's a list like that that makes me salivate for the future of this team.

[Vic Sage]

Next year's rotation (By June 2015):
1- Harvey
2- deGrom
3- Wheeler
4- Niese
5- Syndergaard

Traded:
Colon and/or Gee

In the wings:
Hefner
Montero
Mazzoni
Fulmer
Matz
Ynoa

A few years away:
Mateo
Leathersich
Gorski
Molina
Meisner
Taylor
Flexen
Cessa
Whalen
Bowman
Bradford
Lara
Verrett
Tapia
Gsellman

[Frayed Knot]

Niese is also the only LHP among this team's top group, putting that in his favor over several other candidates when it comes to choosing who to send away.

Hefner, btw, is back to pitching in real, live games. Only two starts and a total of 7 innings so far with PSL (5 runs on 5 hits w/[u:iltnmqwl]7 BBs[/u:iltnmqwl]) ... but it's something.

[Edgy MD]

The problem with Niese over Gee is a tough track record with regards to healthy healthiness. Intercostal strains. Partially torn rotator cuffs. These things don't tend to work themselves out.

[Edgy MD]

Gee, Niese didn't have a whole lot tonight.

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: The problem with Niese over Gee is a tough track record with regards to healthy healthiness. Intercostal strains. Partially torn rotator cuffs. These things don't tend to work themselves out.

With Niese, I'm not sure his problem is injuries to his arm, something in his gut, or a lack of something lower than that. Unlike the title of another thread, I'm not sure his cup runneth over. But when I see his name listed as the day's starting pitcher, I have no confidence the Mets can, or will, win that day. As Jim Brosnan once wrote about another pitcher, "He is just good enough to lose with". I don't get that same feeling, I feel more confident, when I see some of the other names mentioned in this thread. If he were to pitch just a little better and regain some of his value, he'd be the one I'd try to deal.

Later

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

His trajectory is somewhat reminiscent of Maine when Maine was fighting nagging injury. I'd be willing to bet that is the case moreso than his alleged lack of balls.

[Edgy MD]

Agreed. When Niese was going well --- not so long ago --- there was no questioning his heart, guts, and gonads. He was lauded as a bulldog.

[RealityChuck]

You keep Niese simply because he's the only left handed starter on the roster.

[nymr83]

RealityChuck wrote: You keep Niese simply because he's the only left handed starter on the roster.

I don't think thats a wise strategy. So what if he's the only lefty starter? it might matter with hitters because you can platoon guys, alternate the order to protect against "specialists" who only pitcher well against lefties or righties etc. but it doesnt really matter for pitching UNLESS you were to take the extreme steps of frequently shuffling the rotation to move around Lefties and Righties to face opposing teams that are markedly better against lefties or righties. Since you're actually NOT going to do that and will just keep throwing everyone out there every fifth day, keeping a starter on the roster because of his handedness is meaningless.

[Edgy MD]

I certainly didn't mean to suggest this was to be an either/or discussion. Only to point out that they're both similarly vulnerable. They're both similarly under the gun to get thier acts together.

[RealityChuck]

Nymr83 wrote: RealityChuck wrote: You keep Niese simply because he's the only left handed starter on the roster. I don't think thats a wise strategy. So what if he's the only lefty starter? it might matter with hitters because you can platoon guys, alternate the order to protect against "specialists" who only pitcher well against lefties or righties etc. but it doesnt really matter for pitching UNLESS you were to take the extreme steps of frequently shuffling the rotation to move around Lefties and Righties to face opposing teams that are markedly better against lefties or righties. Since you're actually NOT going to do that and will just keep throwing everyone out there every fifth day, keeping a starter on the roster because of his handedness is meaningless.

With all other factors equal, you want to have a lefty starting somewhere. Platooning is still rare (rosters are short of position players and salaries are such that you can't afford to platoon some positions (and you certainly cannot platoon all positions).

It also keeps teams off balance to have a mix of styles among your starters. If a team has been facing two right handers in the first two games of a series, a left hander is going to require adjustments.

[ashie62]

Neither Gee or Niese show me much for 2015.