IGT 4/21/14 - St. Louis Cardinals vs. Military Mets

[Benjamin Grimm]

John Harper made that same argument in the Daily News this morning.

[Vic Sage]

well it's true anyway.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Vic Sage wrote: yes, by all means, lets cycle through retreads while we're up to our armpits in talented minor league arms. After all, its not as if using young starters out of the pen ever works, either in bolstering the pen or in developing the arms as eventual major league pitchers. Surely no lesson can be drawn in this regard from our current opponents in St.L, who've seemed to have done this expertly.

This was standard operating procedure for any Earl Weaver team. His rookie pitchers generally worked their way into the starting rotation through the bullpen. If it was good enough for Earl ....

[Edgy MD]

Who is being advocated for here? deGrom? Montero? Syndergaard?

[Ceetar]

The Cardinals brought up Michael Wacha last year, he made a few starts, they transitioned him to the bullpen a little, and then they put him back in the rotation. Haven't we been down on that in-out type stuff?

Wainwright's really the guy everyone's talking about. He was a September call-up in 2005 and made the team as a reliever in 2006.

They then jumped his innings 127 and he started in 2007 and was pretty good, but not great. His ERA dropped a half point from 07-08, though his FIP only slightly, and it wasn't until 2009 that he started garnering Cy Young awards. Who's to say the year in the bullpen didn't delay his development?

Lance Lynn did the reliever thing in 2011 and then in 2012 was a starter except for a month near the end of the season and then they stretched him back out near the end of the season to use him in the playoffs and he got bombed. I wonder if that end of season stretching out was bad for him?

Shelby Miller got a 2012 September call up as a reliever and started in 2013.

Joe Kelly has done half and half in 2012 and 2013. They stretched him out last June for the rotation.


It's certainly one way to do it, but It's probably not the best way. Nor the only way. And was at least partially born of necessity.


And isn't Mejia an example of it too, and one that is almost universally criticized? Aren't Germen and Familia both examples? They transitioned Germen to the bullpen last year. They also transitioned Familia to the bullpen last year as well, after he got a September callup in 2012 as a reliever. The Cardinals prospects worked out better in terms of ceiling, but the process looks very similar.


And there's been plenty of talk of guys like deGrom getting called up, and maybe even Montero, but for the sake of those guys development, they're starting where they can start, but that's a lot more valuable.

It's not like those guys are locks to be lock-down relievers at this point in their development either. Their growing pains could very well be worse than Kyle Farnsworth. I'm all for molding the development plan of our young arms to those players, not to the whims of the major league roster.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: And isn't Mejia an example of it too, and one that is almost universally criticized? Aren't Germen and Familia both examples? They transitioned Germen to the bullpen last year. They also transitioned Familia to the bullpen last year as well, after he got a September callup in 2012 as a reliever. The Cardinals prospects worked out better in terms of ceiling, but the process looks very similar.

The issue with Mejia-to-the-pen, IIRC, was that he was a superyoung, still-developing arm... and that he was being asked to pitch differently than he would as a starter. According to public statements, Jerry specifically asked him to deemphasize the secondary pitches which would make him a workable starting pitcher in order to help the Mets here-and-now. Mejia was being steered into the pen as an end, not as a let's-try-this-for-now-while-we-work-on-the-other-thing experiment.

Germen and Familia, in the Mets' mind (and the minds of most who watch 'em, honestly), have their futures out beyond the fence in right-center; I don't think anyone's got an issue with their usage.

[Edgy MD]

I never had the idea that it was an end.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Well, assuming you're right... asking him to "just throw the fastball" when he needs to develop the other pitches and pitch sequencing if he's to become anything other than a short reliever was/is about the most short-sighted way possible to employ the bullpen-as-on-the-job-learning-environment, isn't it?