10 Years Ago Today

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

http://web.archive.org/web/20051123042140/http://p079.ezboard.com/fthecranepoolforumfrm32.showMessageRange?topicID=50.topic&start=1&stop=20

Ten years later, it's clear to me that this whole signing was a sham. Duquette had no real authority then as we have since realized. The Wilpons had to have liked the potential of a player who could draw new revenues, as Hidecki Matsui had with the Yankees in 2003 (Japan companies buying billboards, international exposure etc etc). And the one guy in the organization who could have given them the best perspective had just been fired, replaced with a Wilpon hire whose tenure kicked off with the mistake of playing Matsui at SS at Reyes at 2B when it was clear even to the least knowledgeable fan it was a mistake.

The whole thing stunk, didn't it?

(moved from nbf forum)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Man it's just so fascinating.

Our other Free Agent option for second base at the time would have been our future/old friend, Luis Castillo.

Castillo, who was six weeks older than Matsui, the same week re-upped with the Marlins for 4 years/ 19.75 Million -- just about the same deal -- Then went and out-warred the living Chrsit out of him.

LC -- KM
3.9 -- 0.9
2.6 -- (-0.2)
2.3 -- (-0.3)
1.3 -- 0.5

Both guys would wind up getting traded for nothing in year 4.

[Edgy MD]

I think he could've been a better offensive player if he didn't make such dramatic adjustments, forcing himself to hit grounders and relying on his speed. That act might've played on artificial turf but it didn't work in the MLB of the aughts.

Defensively, it was really foolish of the team to set him up at short. Really foolish.

He really had a pretty good package of skills, but between coming to MLB relatively late, having a losing strategy to adapt, and being caught up in a political/marketing strategy disguised as a baseball move, he was undone.

Trading him for Eli Marrero was pretty funny. Marrero joins Kelly Shoppach as veteran Mets catchers acquired late toward the end of the season, when they apparently weren't really certain they even wanted to play anymore.

[seawolf17]

Oh, those Opening Day home runs.

[Frayed Knot]

I think they made the deal thinking they were getting a plus player on offense - and theirs was hardly the opinion that thought so. Sure it was probably more top-driven than we knew at the time with an eye towards marketing angles but they thought they were getting a ballplayer too and Bobby, if he were still there, gave every indication that he would have been on board for it as well. And while it's easy to say that setting him up at SS was a mistake, he wouldn't have come over otherwise.

So, yeah, bad result, and the powers at be were probably a bit too desperate to want it to work, but almost certainly somebody would have signed him based strictly on baseball potential and probably for similar money.

[seawolf17]

Frayed Knot wrote: So, yeah, bad result, and the powers at be were probably a bit too desperate to want it to work, but almost certainly somebody would have signed him based strictly on baseball potential and probably for similar money.

And, because Mets, then he would have won six consecutive MVPs and eight World Series rings for that team.

[Edgy MD]

Where's the thread with the pictures of Matsui tooling around the theater district?

[Vic Sage]

that Norrin Radd was sure wrong. Criswell my ass!

[Gwreck]

Edgy MD wrote: Trading him for Eli Marrero was pretty funny. Marrero joins Kelly Shoppach as veteran Mets catchers acquired late toward the end of the season, when they apparently weren't really certain they even wanted to play anymore.

Marrero is probably the most forgettable part of the magical 2006 season. He was acquired mid season (June) and was released in early August. An he wasn't even a catcher by the time he reached the Mets - he was playing the outfield, I recall. I think he might have hit a home run against the MFYs (off Randy Johnson). That might have been his final major league homer.

[smg58]

I don't know if I'd call it a sham, but the way it was handled was a mistake. A AAA player with Matsui's K/BB ratio in Japan would not have been considered an elite prospect the way Matsui was (and no, it wasn't just the Wilpons or the Mets in general). He had to become a more defensive swinger just to survive a couple of years in this league. I don't recall anybody (Met or otherwise) raising red flags about his throwing arm, either, even though it was obvious after about a month that it was not strong enough for a major league shortstop. If a minimal amount of homework was done on him by anybody, that person was not affiliated with the Mets, nor did I read about it on any of the baseball sites I look at. I felt bad for Kaz after a while, because I thought he was performing to realistic expectations. I'm glad he at least had a good playoff run with the Rockies to show for his time here (even if that grand slam he hit in Philly would have been a routine third out in most parks).

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The other Japan middle infielder we were said to be considering then was Tadihito Iguchi, who didn't wind up signing until the following winter. His Japan stats were better in some respects than Matsui's but he got little attention relative to Kaz, perhaps because his star wasn't as bright there (again here the Wilpons appeared to value getting a name as much as a performer). He wound up on the White Sox at half the price of Matsui and outperformed him by quite a bit too. Won 2 world series! (05 Chisox, 08 Phillies) Tragedy I tellsya.

[Frayed Knot]

I remember Bobby V specifically talking about Iguchi around the time of the first of his two good seasons with the ChiSox (after which his game fell off a cliff) that, back in Japan, there wasn't a question in anyone's mind that Matsui was the better player and that he had no explanation for why the seemingly lesser player had the better (albeit temporary) success over here.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

And THEN he goes to Colorado and Houston and puts up a .330 wOBA and 2-3 WAR a season.

At second base.

[Edgy MD]

Inspired the hateful-insane caucus of Mets fans to chant for Miguel Cairo.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I remember that. Still the most crazy/funny New York chant for a backup to start until this year's "We Want Chris" from Knicks fans at J. R. Smith.

[Edgy MD]

It was just suddenly obvious that Yankee fans were right: that a frighteningly meaningful amount of Met fans were really would-be Yankee fans who were just too cheap to pay the rents or something.

[Zvon]

The whole thing did stink and, like you say, EVERYONE knew unseating Reyes at short was stupid. Its on my top 10 stupid things the Mets have ever done.

[dinosaur jesus]

The thing that puzzled me was the revelation that he didn't have a major league shortstop's arm. I know the standards in Japan aren't quite the same, but it's still odd that he would have a good defensive rep there. And even if you never got to see him in person, you could, you know, just look at the tape.

[metirish]

Ten years, wow..

Saw a tweet that on this day thirteen years ago that Rodriguez signed that crazy contract... some symmetry I suppose.

[G-Fafif]

A couple of months into what was proving a disastrous Met tenure, I came across an ESPN the Magazine from when Kaz first hit the market and it glowed over how this guy was the shnizzle fo' shizzle or whatever young person's slang was in vogue then. Maybe that's where the Mets got the idea that Matsui was surefire.

I also recall Bruce Wilpon, the family member with "business interests in Japan" told Dad that ya gotta get this guy.

Met Clubhouse Store on 54th was lousy with MATSUI 25 merch until that location closed due to lack of interest.

[Edgy MD]

And Bruce Wilpon was totally the shnizzle. With the crazy wife yanking his rich boy chain. Hope those two kids are still together.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Did I ever tell you guys that I met Bruce Wilpon once, during the 2007-08 offseason?

No crazy wife in tow, nor any discussion of things Nipponese, though I did sigh about the Mets in his presence before being formally introduced. (I had been introduced with, "Oh, and here's our ECC Director, who's a BIG Mets fan, always checking in on them." by our MFY-loving department chief. I responded with something like, "Not the easiest part of my day these days." He let me ramble for a little before mentioning our guest's last name.)

[Edgy MD]

Sometime around 2006, this, I think.

http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/bryce_wilson_2006_03_09.jpg