Only the Wall Was White (Split from "Is Jerry Grote...")

[Zvon]

I'm confident that whatever they were doing to the fence there occurred during April of 1967 (painted over late April, early May) so I would go with the April game.



If that was the year they added the plexi-glass to the bullpen areas it very well may be they decided to repaint the entire wall and layed on a primer coat, possibly covering the wall numbers with tape. Then maybe they didn't return to finish it until the end of the month. That's the only thing I can think of that makes sense.

It would be pretty kool if we could find out for a fact what was going on with that wall.

[Benjamin Grimm]

dinosaur jesus wrote: If that's the Mets centerfielder in the first shot, and he's righthanded as he appears to be, that means it's Don Bosch in the April 23 game. Cleon played center in the July 2 game.

That's the visiting team centerfielder (chasing Swoboda's drive), and yes, he's right-handed.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ernie Banks at Shea during the Cubs April, '67 visit. Light walls in background.

[fimg=466:2xapluac]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LJvUULi51sI/TUg4tr6pYvI/AAAAAAAAXeU/vZYIT911XPg/s1600/Birthday%2BErnie.jpg[/fimg:2xapluac]

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ernie Banks at Shea during the Cubs April, '67 visit. Light walls in background. [fimg=466]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LJvUULi51sI/TUg4tr6pYvI/AAAAAAAAXeU/vZYIT911XPg/s1600/Birthday%2BErnie.jpg[/fimg]

wow. Good eye! This is what we should do in the off season. Investigative posterism.

[Benjamin Grimm]

My guess is that in the spring of 1967 somebody forgot to order paint for the fence, so the Mets had to instead apply a few coats of toothpaste to the surface.

I blame Jeff Wilpon!

[Edgy MD]

And we're all agreed. Something white happened, if indeed a minty white.

[Benjamin Grimm]

My guess is that it was intended to be permanent, but didn't look as good in reality as it may have looked in the imagination, and they fairly quickly reversed course. It may have been that they rethought the aesthetics, or else the problem was with the batters' ability to see the pitched ball with that light colored fence in the background.

[batmagadanleadoff]

From Opening Day, 1967 -- Cleon Jones chases a double off the bat of ex-Met Jesse Gonder.

4/11/67



Some of the letters (words, actually) in the Rheingold Ad appear to be raised.

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: From Opening Day, 1967 -- Cleon Jones chases a double off the bat of ex-Met Jesse Gonder. 4/11/67 Some of the letters (words, actually) in the Rheingold Ad appear to be raised.

oooh wow. That IS white. I really think it is. No washout to that film.

Maybe the raised bit are neon lights under there.

Wow, good find.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Neon

[Guest d'Kong76]

Oops, slow

[Zvon]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: My guess is that it was intended to be permanent, but didn't look as good in reality as it may have looked in the imagination, and they fairly quickly reversed course. It may have been that they rethought the aesthetics, or else the problem was with the batters' ability to see the pitched ball with that light colored fence in the background.

I don't believe that at any time in baseball history would anyone anywhere think that a white outfield wall was,..not even a good idea, it shouldn't even be an idea at all! The ball is white! There has to be a more interesting story here. Though if someone did approve this "idea", the persons level of stupidity would make it interesting. Who was this stupid?

I need to know.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Zvon wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: From Opening Day, 1967 -- Cleon Jones chases a double off the bat of ex-Met Jesse Gonder. 4/11/67 [fimg=633]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7315/11957544955_5544ae6a9a_b.jpg[/fimg] Some of the letters (words, actually) in the Rheingold Ad appear to be raised. oooh wow. That IS white. I really think it is. No washout to that film. Maybe the raised bit are neon lights under there. Wow, good find.

But how white? The wall wasn't whiter than the ball, or whiter than the Mets home unis.

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: From Opening Day, 1967 -- Cleon Jones chases a double off the bat of ex-Met Jesse Gonder. 4/11/67 [fimg=633]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7315/11957544955_5544ae6a9a_b.jpg[/fimg] Some of the letters (words, actually) in the Rheingold Ad appear to be raised. oooh wow. That IS white. I really think it is. No washout to that film. Maybe the raised bit are neon lights under there. Wow, good find. But how white? The wall wasn't whiter than the ball, or whiter than the Mets home unis.

I would say that's white enough to be called white. Dates match, black numbers too, so that's the real deal.

[Zvon]

oooh, but then again an off white (green,lilbit) would probably look white like that too on B&W film. Back to square one.


Maybe it's not the color of the wall we should investigate, but the color of the numbers. We know they are not white.

[Edgy MD]

Zvon wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: My guess is that it was intended to be permanent, but didn't look as good in reality as it may have looked in the imagination, and they fairly quickly reversed course. It may have been that they rethought the aesthetics, or else the problem was with the batters' ability to see the pitched ball with that light colored fence in the background. I don't believe that at any time in baseball history would anyone anywhere think that a white outfield wall was,..not even a good idea, it shouldn't even be an idea at all! The ball is white! There has to be a more interesting story here. Though if someone did approve this "idea", the persons level of stupidity would make it interesting. Who was this stupid? I need to know.

Standards were different, and bad ideas are allowed to float around all the time. There have been crippling chain link outfield fences and there have been murderous concrete outfield walls. Ask Bobby Valentine about the fence that turned him from a phenom to a journeyman.

The most beloved park in the National League has brick walls all around. Behind the plate and down the line too. Stupid, yeah but it looked so good, your retro parks have all imitated it.

[Zvon]

Edgy MD wrote: Zvon wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: My guess is that it was intended to be permanent, but didn't look as good in reality as it may have looked in the imagination, and they fairly quickly reversed course. It may have been that they rethought the aesthetics, or else the problem was with the batters' ability to see the pitched ball with that light colored fence in the background. I don't believe that at any time in baseball history would anyone anywhere think that a white outfield wall was,..not even a good idea, it shouldn't even be an idea at all! The ball is white! There has to be a more interesting story here. Though if someone did approve this "idea", the persons level of stupidity would make it interesting. Who was this stupid? I need to know. Standards were different, and bad ideas are allowed to float around all the time. There have been crippling chain link outfield fences and there have been murderous concrete outfield walls. Ask Bobby Valentine about the fence that turned him from a phenom to a journeyman. The most beloved park in the National League has brick walls all around. Behind the plate and down the line too. Stupid, yeah but it looked so good, your retro parks have all imitated it.

This is true and a good point but that's material. Color is another matter. How long has baseball had stadiums make sure the area behind the pitcher, the batters eye, is a dark color? Whenever they decreed this is when they realized that a light, especially a white, backdrop was an unacceptable thing. I thought it's been that way as long as I've followed the game tho I could be wrong.

If it was planned to be painted that color Id have to say it must have looked darker on the swatch sample they were lookin at, or something. If not it's crazy wacky stuff.

Details! I want details!

[batmagadanleadoff]

Did the Cleon picture disappear? I can't see it anymore.

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Did the Cleon picture disappear? I can't see it anymore.

Never mind. My browser crashed. After re-loading, I can see the Jones.

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Did the Cleon picture disappear? I can't see it anymore.

not to me. yet. Ive seen that happen here tho. Then they mysteriously return. Maybe we should investigate that.

[batmagadanleadoff]

From Paul Lukas's ESPN column:

Also in 1967: The wall got a new color scheme. Instead of Shea's familiar dark green with white distance numbers, it was very light green with black numbers (you can just make out the numbers in the background of this shot). But this proved so unpopular that the original colors were restored after only seven home games.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/080926

[Zvon]

From Paul Lukas's ESPN column: Also in 1967: The wall got a new color scheme. Instead of Shea's familiar dark green with white distance numbers, it was very light green with black numbers (you can just make out the numbers in the background of this shot). But this proved so unpopular that the original colors were restored after only seven home games. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/080926

A shame he didn't have the Cleon pic you posted last page:


So is that the final answer? I wanted this story to be more interesting than that. Stupid boring Mets.

Who's the guy behind the wall? Is that a spy type trenchcoat? Are those sunglasses from the future?

[Guest cooby]

Looking at these pictures is making me wistful for those days.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I always remembered the "white" wall appearing in the early '70's Mets intro to Met games. So I searched youtube, and found it. Look at the 18 second mark.


[youtube:33zuyfae]918K4Hp-xWo[/youtube:33zuyfae]

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

But, just old footage is all. On a related note, my brother and I would "do the 'dan-na-na'" whenever this part was on, sliding along the floor, making pretend diviing catches, delivering pitches, etc as this aired.

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I always remembered the "white" wall appearing in the early '70's Mets intro to Met games. So I searched youtube, and found it. Look at the 18 second mark. [youtube]918K4Hp-xWo[/youtube]

It's deja vu all over again! Didn't we touch on this vid already?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: But, just old footage is all. On a related note, my brother and I would "do the 'dan-na-na'" whenever this part was on, sliding along the floor, making pretend diviing catches, delivering pitches, etc as this aired.

HAha, ditto JCL. With 3 brothers.

[Edgy MD]

I'm not sure. I think I would play air banjo.

[Zvon]

Aside from the peek behind Ernie Banks that's ^ the best well lit, color photo I've seen of the fence being a lighter color, but so far can't confirm if this was from that period in '67. I don't think it was. I know it was also a light green color in '64, more like above. The '67 fence looks to be lighter on the Banks card & the B&W pics.

Nolan wearing #34- that's kool. May have to unwatermark that one.