Only the Wall Was White (Split from "Is Jerry Grote...")

[batmagadanleadoff]

Undated photo of Mets Grote & Berra, which had to have been taken during the early portion of the 1967 season -- check out the paint job on the outfield wall -- the numbers are dark and the wall is light.





Grote at Butterball Field

[Edgy MD]

The outfield wall was white for Seaver's debut. I think the white was gone by the next homestand. I think they're in the midst of painting it there. Notice the dark section in right field and the worker facing it.

[Zvon]

Kong76 wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Cool picture! Makes me want a yoohoo!

I've never seen the wall with dark numbers. Maybe they are spray painting the fence and have the numbers covered. I would think if the wall was that way for any extended time I would have seen it in a photo by now.
But you never know, ya know?
They switched from the wall bullpen to the plexi glass bullpen. I found an article about it but it is not dated.
What year did this change take place? My guess would be between the 67 and 68 season.

[Edgy MD]

Jump ahead to about 4:30 in this video and you can see the wall painted white. I imagine the league whisteled it. Probably was blinding to hitters when the sun hit it, and really dangerous if you were facing a guy who dropped down low.

[youtube:lh1grld6]3GB_kkbFVhk[/youtube:lh1grld6]

It almost seems to have a hint of baby blue on the film. Maybe that's the green bleeding through.

[Zvon]

The OF wall at Shea was never white. It was a pale flat very light green when it opened in '64 and stayed that way for sometime. But what you mentioned about being a distraction to the batter, I think the light green would have the same effect and its surprising they were allowed to have it that color for any period of time.


Now the wall numbers in the Seaver vid are the darker type and that's mid game so its not mid paint-job. Wonder how long the numbers stayed that way. I bet there's a story there.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Jump ahead to about 4:30 in this video and you can see the wall painted white. I imagine the league whisteled it. Probably was blinding to hitters when the sun hit it, and really dangerous if you were facing a guy who dropped down low. [youtube]3GB_kkbFVhk[/youtube] It almost seems to have a hint of baby blue on the film. Maybe that's the green bleeding through.

The temporary '67 wall paint job was never white --- more like a light aquamarine, if you wanna use crayola crayons as a point of reference. The youtube video is a, more or less, accurate showing of the outfield wall color.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Undated photo of Mets Grote & Berra, which had to have been taken during the early portion of the 1967 season -- check out the paint job on the outfield wall -- the numbers are dark and the wall is light. Grote at Butterball Field

Looks like the Butterball Field photo was also shot in '67; Grote's got the exact same glove and pair of spikes on in the Shea shot.

[Edgy MD]

They're not a darker type. They're black. And this is definitely a lighter base color. And I'm sticking to my contention that it's white paint with the only tone is coming from the green underneath bleeding through.

Something briefly different happened at the start of 1967.

[Edgy MD]

Shea in 1969:

[Edgy MD]

But here it is 1966 behind the stage some band set up.



The tone for the first homestand of 1967 is different.



And again, 1969.



That's two green cookies with a creamy middle, dontcha think?

[ashie62]

I'll take either Grote Piazza or Carter in my lineup anytime....

I probably like Grote best because he was the first Mets catcher of my youth..

[dinosaur jesus]

That 1969 shot is from September, I'm guessing Saturday, September 6. On a drizzly afternoon, Don Cardwell and Tug McGraw combined to shut out the Phillies 3-0 and move the Mets to 3 1/2 behind the Cubs. Fitting that this should be in the Grote thread, because after Terry Harmon led off the game with a single, Grote threw him out stealing second.

[batmagadanleadoff]

You seem to be saying two different things. It's possible that the Mets used white paint to redo the walls ... if so, the white, mixed with the dark green, yielded some shade of light green. That's possible. But the early '67 walls weren't white. Just look at the youtube video and compare the walls to the Mets uniforms, or the sleeves on the Pirates uniforms. Those walls aren't white.

[Zvon]

This photo should not be used for an example of the color of anything. The hue is totally out of wack. All the photos from that session are. They are all great photographs, it's a shame.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Colors on the interweb can be tricky. Next question.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Zvon wrote: This photo should not be used for an example of the color of anything. The hue is totally out of wack. All the photos from that session are. They are all great photographs, it's a shame.

All you gotta do is to look at the Rheingold ad at the top of the scoreboard to see that the colors are off. But even if the colors of that '69 shot are accurate, how does that prove that the early '67 walls were white?

[Guest d'Kong76]

Allow me to clarify, the sky was white that day. And the grass yellow.

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Zvon wrote: This photo should not be used for an example of the color of anything. The hue is totally out of wack. All the photos from that session are. They are all great photographs, it's a shame. All you gotta do is to look at the Rheingold ad at the top of the scoreboard to see that the colors are off. But even if the colors of that '69 shot are accurate, how does that prove that the early '67 walls were white?

The walls were never white. Ed's just stirrin up some shit. Its those black numbers that I'm gonna focus on.When were they, for how long? A whole season? I don't think so. We would have to travel out both ways in time from that Seaver vid. to get the proper time frame. Grotes photo falls in there (but where? It ties to Butterball with the shoes and glove).

In Edgy's defense, if he's serious, it does look very white in a few sections of the vid.


So, this is Seavers debut in 1967 and the plexiglass bullpens are in place.A Wes Westrum IN ACTION sighting!

[Zvon]

Man, that color, whatever it was, was hideous.

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: You seem to be saying two different things. It's possible that the Mets used white paint to redo the walls ... if so, the white, mixed with the dark green, yielded some shade of light green. That's possible. But the early '67 walls weren't white. Just look at the youtube video and compare the walls to the Mets uniforms, or the sleeves on the Pirates uniforms. Those walls aren't white.

Which I acknowledge. but it also should be acknowledged that it is significantly different from what came before and after. Whether they painted it white or attempted white or whitefail, the main point remains, that it was a dramatic, white-ish departure that lasted a very short time in the great scheme of things.

Also notable in that video, when you spy the windows from the wall into the bullpen, the frame around it is as white as Tom Sawyer's pickets. They perhaps used fresh wood there that didn't have a green undercoat.

[Edgy MD]

Still a half shade off? Sure. But close enough that you can't quite make out a coloriffic distinction between the baserunner's knee and the frame of the bullpen-window part of the wall behind him begins.

Note that they kept the far corners in left and right green. They did this to demonstrate to 2013 audiences that the attempted whitewashing had occurred, and this is what had been there before.

[Zvon]

Also in the Seaver vid I think the first few scenes are of practice at Butterball Field. Could it be? On the same reel?
The footage:
1967 Regular Season Game 7
April 20, 1967
Mets 6, Cubs 1

The black numbers on the walls. Pete would know.

[Edgy MD]

Why in the world would I be stirring up shit? I see white and I say "white." Yeah, it's not pure white, but it's just off white and it's not particularly green at all and it's very different from anything before or since.

[Zvon]

Edgy MD wrote: Why in the world would I be stirring up shit? I see white and I say "white." Yeah, it's not pure white, but it's just off white and it's not particularly green at all and it's very different from anything before or since.

Sorry, just stirring up shit myself. Its washed out in the footage. I'll look for a pic of the fence white and I hope I find one, cause that would be pretty kool if it was once. I have collected a lot of pictures of Shea from all years and I've seen the light aqua-green fence but never a white one.

Hey, that's from the first week of 67. Is it possible that could be a primer layer that they let sit for a small time before going over? There is no doubt that in the Seaver vid it's the lightest I've ever seen it but I think that's just the way it looked on that film.

[ashie62]

This thread got hijacked a long time ago...

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Edgy MD wrote: But here it is 1966 behind the stage some band set up. The tone for the first homestand of 1967 is different. And again, 1969. That's two green cookies with a creamy middle, dontcha think?

I love that the Beatles tried to play a stadium with fewer amps than a garage band uses today.

[Zvon]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Edgy MD wrote: But here it is 1966 behind the stage some band set up. The tone for the first homestand of 1967 is different. And again, 1969. That's two green cookies with a creamy middle, dontcha think? I love that the Beatles tried to play a stadium with fewer amps than a garage band uses today.

They did more than tried. They did it. Twice. Crazy but true stuff.

I believe the wall in 69 was closer to this color. Some photos have it looking a little more blueish.



I'm telling ya that looks awfully like a primer coat.
Or just an awful primer coat.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yesterday I watched the 1967 edition of SNY's Mets Yearbook and grabbed these screen shots:




For anyone who wants to track down the game these photos are from, all I can say is that Ron Swoboda was batting against a left-handed pitcher wearing a red cap and red sleeves, and the ball landed beyond the center fielder's reach, but didn't go over the wall.

[Edgy MD]

Off-white.

[dinosaur jesus]

Yesterday I watched the 1967 edition of SNY's Mets Yearbook and grabbed these screen shots: For anyone who wants to track down the game these photos are from, all I can say is that Ron Swoboda was batting against a left-handed pitcher wearing a red cap and red sleeves, and the ball landed beyond the center fielder's reach, but didn't go over the wall.

It looks like there are two games that could be. On April 23, Swoboda hit a two-triple to center off Chris Short of the Phillies. The centerfielder was Tony Gonzalez, and the Phillies won 10-6. And on July 2, Swoboda hit a double to center off Steve Carlton of the Cardinals. The centerfielder was Curt Flood, and the Cardinals won 3-1.


If that's the Mets centerfielder in the first shot, and he's righthanded as he appears to be, that means it's Don Bosch in the April 23 game. Cleon played center in the July 2 game.

[batmagadanleadoff]

dinosaur jesus wrote: It looks like there are two games that could be. On April 23, Swoboda hit a two-triple to center off Chris Short of the Phillies. The centerfielder was Tony Gonzalez, and the Phillies won 10-6. And on July 2, Swoboda hit a double to center off Steve Carlton of the Cardinals. The centerfielder was Curt Flood, and the Cardinals won 3-1. If that's the Mets centerfielder in the first shot, and he's righthanded as he appears to be, that means it's Don Bosch in the April 23 game. Cleon played center in the July 2 game.

If your research is correct, then the screen grabs have to be from the April 23rd game. The outfield walls were painted as shown only for the beginning of the season -- probably not beyond April of 1967.

Light Aqua Green. Minty White.