IGT 9/29/2013: MIL @ NYM -- Piazza Party & Au Revoir

[metirish]

Totally agree, I thought there would be a lot more of HIS teammates there instead of the old reliables that always get trotted out.

[Guest themetfairy]

metirish wrote: The 7 Line crew are great, made lots of noise, how does one go about joining them?

Buy a ticket and show up at one of their events. It's that easy.

[Edgy MD]

HahnSolo wrote: Fonzie and Johnny probably could have spent a little more time working on what they wanted to say.

Yeah, I always come away from these wondering if history could have been marked a little more momentously by these guys' agents having them sit down with a professional speech writer for a bit.

[Ceetar]

themetfairy wrote: metirish wrote: The 7 Line crew are great, made lots of noise, how does one go about joining them? Buy a ticket and show up at one of their events. It's that easy.

@the7line They do about a dozen games a year group sales, Opening Day among them. They're organizing a trip to SF next year.

[Ceetar]

Ceetar wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Oh, and superclassy move by Terry jogging out to CF pregame and acknowledging the 7 Line fans who filled the Big Apple seats. Not a huge fan of the mgr, but he pulls one out of his hat now and again. Way to go. Terry's probably the second classiest guy on the team. During the close play at first that ended the..5th? where the runner dropped his helmet and what looked like a shin guard, Wright while jogging off the field picked it up for him and tossed it to him. (He dropped it.) Wright also was (presumably) thanking the umpires after the game.

[Gwreck]

Ceetar wrote: between Opening Day and the ASG and today.. I've seen it full a lot this year.

If those were the only games you went to, sure. There were three games this year with paid attendance over 41,000: opening day, fireworks night, and this game.

Attendance this season was 2,093,766, down 6.6% from last year. It was the fifth straight season of decreasing attendance.

[nymr83]

Gwreck wrote: between Opening Day and the ASG and today.. I've seen it full a lot this year. If those were the only games you went to, sure. There were three games this year with paid attendance over 41,000: opening day, fireworks night, and this game. Attendance this season was 2,093,766, down 6.6% from last year. It was the fifth straight season of decreasing attendance.

A trend that will likely continue until they don't suck. its been 1997 since they finished this poorly in attendance and, even worse, they finished 14th of 15 teams in the NL! worst since 12th of 12 in both 1983 and 1979. ouch.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The org has gotten just what it deserves in terms of attendance. In addition to the overall results being poor, the trajectories of each year have begun to resemble one another (OKish start, horrible second half) and the home team has played terribly there in all but one year since it opened.

I also think that pricing tickets way too high for a recession, and then, introducing hasty in-season promotions on top of a complex tiered/variable pricing scheme has created a general sense of distrust in the value of anything the team has to sell.

I think they'd do well to reduce that complexity and institute a true, no-bullshit "everyday low price" type offering until they can re-establish credibility with ticket buyers. But you know the Mets. The second the team's performance improves they'll make you pay for it.

[Ceetar]

the only thing they need to do is win. That's 99% of the attendance/revenue and that 1% 'everyday low price' is probably not worth giving up the added revenue of pricing the good games higher.

If the Mets win more than 80 games next year, 2015 attendance will at least approach 3 million again. No matter how or what they market it or what they price it at.

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: The org has gotten just what it deserves in terms of attendance. In addition to the overall results being poor, the trajectories of each year have begun to resemble one another (OKish start, horrible second half) and the home team has played terribly there in all but one year since it opened. I also think that pricing tickets way too high for a recession, and then, introducing hasty in-season promotions on top of a complex tiered/variable pricing scheme has created a general sense of distrust in the value of anything the team has to sell. I think they'd do well to reduce that complexity and institute a true, no-bullshit "everyday low price" type offering until they can re-establish credibility with ticket buyers. But you know the Mets. The second the team's performance improves they'll make you pay for it.

I was thinking (as I am often doing these days) about the Eagles and the first $100 rock ticket. Around the same time --- Eagles or no --- venues, promoters, and sports franchising were getting wise to how successfully the secondary market had been gouging people for the longest time, and so why not gouge them at the source. If that meant that an embarrassingly large block of tickets covering a whole section of Jones Beach Theaters went unsold for the Loggins & Messina reunion tour, so be it. You make it up with the increased revenues from larger ticket sales, and you can cut staff and amenities for the small crowd. You try and ignore the PR hit from the embarrassment of Kenny singing "Angry Eyes" to a half-empty arena. When a junior exec tries to show you a spreadsheet demonstrating that there's a real cost in future revenues to treating your audience tat way, you fire and possibly kill that troublemaker before he shows that spreadsheet to anyone over your head.

An interesting effect to introducing dynamic pricing is the reality that it's almost impossible to imitate constantly shifting marketplace of scalpers outside the venue, with tickets instantly spiking as demand increases, and nosediving below cover price the moment the event started.

I mean, I hate scalpers, but the Who show always sold out when scalpers controlled the market The price would shift toward the seller or toward the buyer, but eventually the market would settle where it would settle and the crowd size was a fair reflection of the demand for the event. And you would never have the scandal of the front section sparsely filled with a handful of swells who are embarrassed (if they have any soul at all --- at their lack of neighbors.

Anyhow, it's certainly not just the Mets. The pricing scheme on the Nats is mostly miserable. You seem to find a ticket that's reasonable and you show up at the ballpark and realized you're a mile from the field.

But it sure is a pleasure to shop for tickets for the Orioles. And they have a good team. Sometimes I visit their site just to stare at teh prices, even if I haven't got time to see the game.

I'm sure the cold comfort with the organization (and more likely with their creditors) is that, while the team's record has flatlined and attendance has receded, the cost-cutting has outpaced both. Such are the Pyrrhic victories in times of recession and the collapse of fraudulent financial schemes.

[metirish]

Ceetar wrote: the only thing they need to do is win. That's 99% of the attendance/revenue and that 1% 'everyday low price' is probably not worth giving up the added revenue of pricing the good games higher. If the Mets win more than 80 games next year, 2015 attendance will at least approach 3 million again. No matter how or what they market it or what they price it at.

3 million?, I think that is very optimistic , only in the first year of CF did they get to that figure.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/attend.shtml

[Gwreck]

Edgy MD wrote: An interesting effect to introducing dynamic pricing is the reality that it's almost impossible to imitate constantly shifting marketplace of scalpers outside the venue, with tickets instantly spiking as demand increases, and nosediving below cover price the moment the event started.

That might be true, but the "dynamic" pricing the Mets offer doesn't even adjust to the shifting marketplace for the week or two weeks or two months before the game even occurs.

I know I have beat this drum many times before but the Mets have an artificial price floor. Dynamic pricing would be welcome if it was truly dynamic, but nobody wants to approach that reality, that the $100 "Field Box" seat they sell on their website is going for $60 on Stubhub. The Mets can't even plead ignorance here, as they know full well that tickets are selling for those prices there, given MLB getting in bed with Stubhub on ticket resales.

We need look no further than the two games against the Yankees this year, which didn't sell out (or anywhere close), yet the Mets never dropped the prices.

[Edgy MD]

But, while all that's true, what's the real complaint? If you want that ticket, and you get it legally and priced down on Stubhub, hasn't the marketplace come down to meet you at the level of demand? Or do you feel Stubhub's price is artificially high also?

[Gwreck]

Yes and no.

There are still plenty of games this year which I did not go to (including the games against the Yankees) because the asking price was above my (and apparently many others') willingness to pay.

Stubhub is only a partial remedy because the availability of tickets there is still limited due to the Mets' artificially high face value prices; many tickets go unsold and never reach market value because nobody wants to find out what that really is (ie. how much of a hit they'll have to take in order to sell their tickets).

Plus, I am sometimes uncomfortable buying at a discount and having a third-party eat the loss; I'd much rather that the Mets price their tickets fairly from the start. If they did, I'd buy them from the team directly.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Gwreck wrote: Plus, I am sometimes uncomfortable buying at a discount and having a third-party eat the loss;

You mean the StubHUb seller? Isn't he presumably selling at market? Would you be more comfortable if he tried to gouge you by selling way above market even though the face value of his ticket has depreciated significantly?

[Edgy MD]

You have me up until that last paragraph. The third party knows what they're doing and have compooters minimizing their risk. Every dollar they lose selling you a discounted Mets ticket, I'm sure they gain back ten times over selling a seat to U2/My Morning Jacket at $285. A charitable thought for them is nice, but I don't think they need it.

[Gwreck]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Gwreck wrote: Plus, I am sometimes uncomfortable buying at a discount and having a third-party eat the loss; You mean the StubHUb seller? Isn't he presumably selling at market? Would you be more comfortable if he tried to gouge you by selling way above market even though the face value of his ticket has depreciated significantly?

I get that this is not an economics argument. Of course the Stubhub seller is pricing the tickets at market value. I have no qualms whatsoever about buying a ticket under face value from a "professional" ticket scalper. It becomes a little more uncomfortable if it's a "ordinary fan" eating that loss.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm sort of saying the same thing. It's not necessarily that one system is superior to the other, just the whole notion that I believe that some of the Mets' attendance woes is due to ticket policies that at first were way out of line and since inconsistent and left the ticket buying public un.

Ceetar's "winning fixes everything" argument may be true to a degree (certainly seems to be the Wilpon's solution for everything), but it's really not addressing the pricing credibility issues at all.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: You have me up until that last paragraph. The third party knows what they're doing and have compooters minimizing their risk. Every dollar they lose selling you a discounted Mets ticket, I'm sure they gain back ten times over selling a seat to U2/My Morning Jacket at $285. A charitable thought for them is nice, but I don't think they need it.

Especially at this point, most of those third party people are NOT U2/My Morning Jacket resellers, they're just other fans that bought season tickets because for some reason they like their 10% discount and knowing their section and all that jazz and can't get to every game or try to resell a couple of minimize the annual cost.

On the other hand, it's these same people that would balk if the Mets put every ticket on sale for $5 in September. And the Mets don't want them thinking about how much more reasonable it almost always is to buy individually and create your own plan (at least for the non-full season stuff) because they'd much rather have their money in the bank in October than sporadically throughout the season.

Well sure, it doesn't address the credibility but really no one (Mets or other franchises/sports) cares about credibility when you've got the demand. I think perhaps scalpers, and amateur scalpers (guys that buy 15 game plans with the intention of selling the Yankees/Openers to pay for the others or selling the others to pay for the Marquee games and the like) masked how bad the situation was after 2009 and 2010. So many bought with new stadium and good team in place expecting to make money. So while 'in the house' attendance was down, the tickets were still sold and the money spent. But those people never had intentions of going to the games, and it took a little longer for the demand to dissipate from the primary market. Suddenly people stopped renewing after 2009 was not a fluke, and the Mets were perhaps shocked at how many of them didn't convert to lesser plans or day of game sales.

It sucks that they gauge us for the games we want to see and the best deals are for the midweek games, but I'm not sure I can complain about that. The midweek Yankee game probably shocked them, at both stadiums, wouldn't be surprised to see the premium prices drop slightly next year, but the train charges me more during rush hour, the parking lots cost more, a movie ticket is more in the evening. The bridge tolls are more during rush hour.. Hotels on the beach cost more in the summer...the premium stuff is always going to be overpriced.

[Edgy MD]

Well really, the artificial marketplace is always going to be there as long as MLB has controlling power of what is and isn't authentic professional American baseball.

It would be great if cities allowed indy league teams to use MLB ballparks while the MLB team is out of town.

[metirish]

IIRC Stubhub sets the price when you submit a ticket to be sold, based on comps with similar tickets. I know it did when I had a ticket to sell for a concert(it didn't sell")

[Guest themetfairy]

Piazza enjoyed the accolades -



The Captain -



EY scoring the game's first run -



Another in the series of lousy likenesses. And are they going to re-do the Mets HOF in the offseason? Otherwise, why was Mikey's plaque just propped up on an easel (I remember that John Franco's plaque was hanging the day of his HOF ceremony) -

[Edgy MD]

Interesting that EY scored using a hook slide with his feet --- what Hernandez called the Maury Wills slide. The two guys thrown out were hook sliding with their hands --- which made Keith go absolutely nutso.

[Gwreck]

metirish wrote: IIRC Stubhub sets the price when you submit a ticket to be sold, based on comps with similar tickets. I know it did when I had a ticket to sell for a concert(it didn't sell")

No. The seller chooses the price. The comps to similar tickets is for the seller's reference.

[Ceetar]

Gwreck wrote: metirish wrote: IIRC Stubhub sets the price when you submit a ticket to be sold, based on comps with similar tickets. I know it did when I had a ticket to sell for a concert(it didn't sell") No. The seller chooses the price. The comps to similar tickets is for the seller's reference.

there's a minimum though ($6 i think)

[Gwreck]

Ceetar wrote: there's a minimum though ($6 i think)

That's Stubhub's minimum charge. You can sell your ticket for one cent if you want. Stubhub will charge the buyer no less than $6.

[metirish]

Now I know why mine never sold....

[Guest themetfairy]

Meanwhile, does anyone know what Vince Piazza's health issues are?

Reading Long Shot, it was apparent that there had been a schism in the relationship between Mike and his father. Obviously Vince is in poor health (Mike alluded to that in his speech yesterday, plus Vince used a wheelchair during the festivities) and the relationship has apparently been mended. But so far I haven't found out what's wrong with Vince.

Hopefully it's something from which he's recovering.

[Zvon]

themetfairy wrote: EY scoring the game's first run -

This is a great photo. As far as Piazza's dad goes I was concerned too. His fathers appearance was only touched on.


As far as the Mets and their tickets go, I think their biggest mistake is trying to be something they're not. Their business model should not be so influenced by what the Yankees are doing. The Mets are more like the Phillies and it would serve them well to look more at the Phils business model.

[Guest themetfairy]

Thank you Zvon

And agreed about the Phillies model. I've often said that while I do not like the Phillies or their phans, I have nothing but respect for their organization. They consistently treat me better than my own team does; the Mets could stand to learn a few lessons from them.

Meanwhile, I'm watching the replay of yesterday's game, and am amused at the booth's reaction to Milwaukee's poor defense in the bottom of the 8th - classic GKR!