2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

[Edgy MD]

Hey, have a Snickerdoodle, Mr. Bitter Sarcasm.

You're missing the point tremendously. I in no way claim or imply that he always has performed or is always doomed to perform as such.

My faith in my team's players is no less than your'n. I just happen to think of Q-bert as one of those players.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Hey, have a Snickerdoodle, Mr. Bitter Sarcasm. You're missing the point tremendously. I in no way claim or imply that he always has performed or is always doomed to perform as such. My faith in my team's players is no less than your'n. I just happen to think of Q-bert as one of those players.

dammit, now I want a snickerdoodle.

Bitter Sarcasm is my bit. Hell, i tone it down on the internet.

Hopefully he comes up and does well. fine with me, I just worry there's inflated expectation from him based on an extremely small sample when he stepped in in an emergency last year. And that people like that his name starts with Q. Maybe he can give us 15 good days and Tejada with rest will get his act together. You can probably get 15 good days, with luck and timing, from anybody talented enough to be in AAA.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ceetar wrote: Bitter Sarcasm is my bit. Hell, i tone it down on the internet.

I thought that your schtick was cockeyed optimism?

[Edgy MD]

Best way to get the most out of your shortstop, I think, is to try another one when one isn't getting it done. Wonderful motivation. And the first one is still available. And the rest of the team knows you're doing what you can to support their efforts. It's not win-win. It's like win-win-win-win-win! Even if you lose!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

DL'ed, Quintanilla on his way.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Nice headline on a New York Times article: First and Short Have That Third-and-Long Feel

[Zvon]

Zvon wrote: He led off with an important single and then thought, YES, they wont send me down now. Then he stuck his head back up his ass. In around the 8th he realized he didn't do enough to save himself and started to worry about how he was gonna break the news to his mom about being demoted. In the 9th he saw his out and will call his mom tomorrow and tell her he didn't get demoted. He got injured. meeeeeh, 65% serious post.

BTW, I changed the facts to protect the actual reason Mr T is immature at times. No idea what really goes thru his head. But the end result is the same.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Terry says that when Ruben gets healthy, he's going to Las Vegas or Binghamton, and that he's going to have to win his job back from Omar Q.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Terry says that when Ruben gets healthy, he's going to Las Vegas or Binghamton, and that he's going to have to win his job back from Omar Q.

that shouldn't be tough. He can probably do that in a handful of rehab games anyway.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Terry no like-o Tejadder.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Terry says that when Ruben gets healthy, he's going to Las Vegas or Binghamton, and that he's going to have to win his job back from Omar Q. that shouldn't be tough. He can probably do that in a handful of rehab games anyway.

Given 200 ML ABs Tejada couldn't prove he can out-play what Quintanilla is currently giving the team, what makes you think he can so easily do so in a handful of Binghamton games?



Not that either guy is going to the ASG, but Q's .242/.290/.363 over 91 ABs beats Ruben's .209/.267/.262 over 187

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Terry says that when Ruben gets healthy, he's going to Las Vegas or Binghamton, and that he's going to have to win his job back from Omar Q. that shouldn't be tough. He can probably do that in a handful of rehab games anyway. Given 200 ML ABs Tejada couldn't prove he can out-play what Quintanilla is currently giving the team, what makes you think he can so easily do so in a handful of Binghamton games? Not that either guy is going to the ASG, but Q's .242/.290/.363 over 91 ABs beats Ruben's .209/.267/.262 over 187

Because Ruben Tejada is a better baseball player, beyond these small samples, and all the data is in his favor. So does any future prospects for these players as well. Quintanilla is not playing particularly well, so why would you stick with the filler guy when you have the guy that's actually worth something and has potential.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think a large part of it is that Omar has been playing like he wants to be there (you know Terry likes "energy") and Ruben was, in many ways, going through the motions.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: ... so why would you stick with the filler guy when you have the guy that's actually worth something and has potential.

Because the fill-in is playing better NOW.
Ruben is younger and most likely (hopefully anyway) has a better future but, unless and until Q falters and/or Ruben is tearing it up in Bingo or Vegas, I want to go with the guy making the better contribution at the ML level.
That's not the same thing as saying you're betting on him over the next three years, nor will the team lose control of Tejada if he plays the next month or three in either Bingo or Vegas.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think a large part of it is that Omar has been playing like he wants to be there (you know Terry likes "energy") and Ruben was, in many ways, going through the motions.

I also think a large part of it is that Tejada was ten minutes from being demoted anyway, and the clock is stuck at that point. Let him go down there and prove that he's as good as he was in 2010 and 2011, if he can.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: ... so why would you stick with the filler guy when you have the guy that's actually worth something and has potential. Because the fill-in is playing better NOW. .

The fill in is playing now, certainly. Better than Tejada was when he got hurt? yes. Better than Tejada would if you called him up instead of sending him to the minors? Doubtful. Let's get a fresh start from Tejada, who knows, maybe the leg was bothering him a little prior to actually hurting it. Give him the time he needs to get his timing down, and then promote him unless there is something obvious.

And btw, that .529 by Tejada would be better than what Q has done over the last two weeks. (.517)

[Frayed Knot]

If Tejada wants a fresh start he should be made to show that he's earned a fresh start. That's what Terry (and, by extension, Sandy) is saying and I agree with him/them.
If Tejada had played well enough over the first two months of the season this may not be an issue, but he didn't so it is.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

If Tejada gets his head out of his ass, he's a much better player than Omar Q. But I don't mind Terry's tough love even a little. Really he and Ike are the 2 biggest reasons we fell 15 games under .500 this year.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: If Tejada wants a fresh start he should be made to show that he's earned a fresh start. That's what Terry (and, by extension, Sandy) is saying and I agree with him/them. If Tejada had played well enough over the first two months of the season this may not be an issue, but he didn't so it is.

And all I'm saying is that I'm extremely confident that he's going to convince them of that by the time his normal rehab is over.

They'll get there and they'll be all "Good job working hard to get back Ruben!" and promote him.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Ceetar wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: If Tejada wants a fresh start he should be made to show that he's earned a fresh start. That's what Terry (and, by extension, Sandy) is saying and I agree with him/them. If Tejada had played well enough over the first two months of the season this may not be an issue, but he didn't so it is. And all I'm saying is that I'm extremely confident that he's going to convince them of that by the time his normal rehab is over. They'll get there and they'll be all "Good job working hard to get back Ruben!" and promote him.

You are, but the guy who lived with him for two months isn't.

[Vic Sage]

what exactly has Tejada ever done, minors or majors, to earn the right for the manager to hold his position open for him? In the majors, over 1336 plate appearances (not a small sample size), he's put up a .326/.321 ops/slg line, with an 81 OPS+ to date. His punchless, speedless offense is matched by his sparkless, disinterested defense, which was further marred this season by numerous episodes of baseball stupidity.

In the minors, his numbers were slightly better, as you'd expect, but not much. Over 1900 plate appearances, his line went all the way up to .337 / .351. Now he's still young of course, but all that indicates is that one day, if he works hard and stays in shape, he has the opportunity to be older. I don't see an abundance of raw talent here that screams "long-term answer at SS" such that i'd play him over the adequate backup who is making all the plays on defense and is currently having a better season offensively, putting up numbers that, as underwhelming as they are, are still better than Tejada's career numbers to date.

If he gets hot and Omar falls off a cliff, then fine. But like Terry said, Ruben has got to earn it. He's done nothing to do that so far in his career.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Vic Sage wrote: what exactly has Tejada ever done, minors or majors, to earn the right for the manager to hold his position open for him? In the majors, over 1336 plate appearances (not a small sample size), he's put up a .326/.321 ops/slg line, with an 81 OPS+ to date. His punchless, speedless offense is matched by his sparkless, disinterested defense, which was further marred this season by numerous episodes of baseball stupidity. In the minors, his numbers were slightly better, as you'd expect, but not much. Over 1900 plate appearances, his line went all the way up to .337 / .351. Now he's still young of course, but all that indicates is that one day, if he works hard and stays in shape, he has the opportunity to be older. I don't see an abundance of raw talent here that screams "long-term answer at SS" such that i'd play him over the adequate backup who is making all the plays on defense and is currently having a better season offensively, putting up numbers that, as underwhelming as they are, are still better than Tejada's career numbers to date. If he gets hot and Omar falls off a cliff, then fine. But like Terry said, Ruben has got to earn it. He's done nothing to do that so far in his career.

Am in total agreement and was going to post to this effect, but you beat me to it. And saying that Tejada is better than Q is like saying that Charlie Puleo is better than John Pacella. The fuss over Ruben Tejada perplexes me. I mean, he might turn out alright but you read some of his press, and you could think that he might be the next Ozzie Smith, though thankfully, he's not anywhere near as overhyped as Rey O was.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: In the minors, his numbers were slightly better, as you'd expect, but not much. Over 1900 plate appearances, his line went all the way up to .337 / .351. Now he's still young of course, but all that indicates is that one day, if he works hard and stays in shape, he has the opportunity to be older.

In his last full year in the minors, in 2009, in AA, he was the third youngest player in the entire league. The average age was 24.3. He was 19.

he would _still_ be young for the league.

Age has a whole lot to do with it.

http://patrickfloodblog.com/2012/02/01/optimistically-projecting-ruben-tejada/

No one's making him out to be the savior, but the only thing Quintanilla has going for him is that Tejada played poorly all around most of this season before getting hurt. Ruben Tejada's career wOBA would still put him roughly middle of the pack in the majors for shortstops, and if this season was just a blip, what he did the last two seasons would be top 10. It's not that he can be Alex Rodriguez, it's that capable shortstops who won't embarrass you are hard to find. Tejada has done that in the past, in a much larger sample than what has happened so far this year. If Terry thinks penance is the minors is going to snap him out of some funk that an injury and rehab didn't, then that's fine, but the numbers and logic don't merit leaving him down there long.

[Vic Sage]

from Mr. Flood:

This is, of course, ignoring all other objective and subjective information about Ruben Tejada. So it�s kind of a silly exercise.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: from Mr. Flood: This is, of course, ignoring all other objective and subjective information about Ruben Tejada. So it�s kind of a silly exercise.

correct. The main point is to emphasize the bits about how freaking young he is and why you don't give up on him.

[Frayed Knot]

But, once again, leaving him in Bingo or Vegas until he gets his shit back together (or until Q falls apart) is NOT the same thing as giving up on him.

[Edgy MD]

Certainly.

One thing he's done that makes you hope he can re-assert himself is achieve a .360 on-base percentage at the age of 21. You won't find too many shortstops in the history of ever who can claim that. (I be surprised if you found five.)

It was only 376 plate appearances, but that's enough to me to suggest that ability was real.

Hold his job? No, make him show you something. Make him earn it or Quintanilla lose it. It's a competitive world. But there's a compelling interest for the Mets to be rooting for him.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Hold his job? No, make him show you something. Make him earn it or Quintanilla lose it. It's a competitive world. But there's a compelling interest for the Mets to be rooting for him.

Quintanilla has already lost it. If the Mets had ANYONE else to play there..

[Edgy MD]

Quintanilla has lost the job? I thought he had a nice series. As nice as you can do when you're oh for your last 13.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Quintanilla has lost the job? I thought he had a nice series. As nice as you can do when you're oh for your last 13.

He's basically doing what he did last year, hot start, and then mostly sinking back to the mean. Last year Tejada showed up before he hit it..this year? This is why I'd rather bring Tejada back BEFORE Q goes into a 11/50 slide. (He's 9/40 since David Wright's players-only meeting after the Cubs loss)